• my next novel, Any Other City, coming out with Arsenal Pulp Press in April 2023
• my newsletter, Whatever Happened to Hazel Jane?
• my band, Certain Women

The episode transcript can be found here.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Books by Ryka Aoki: 

• Light From Uncommon Stars
• He Mele a Hilo
• Why Dust Shall Never Settle Upon This Soul
• Seasonal Velocities 

Some of the works/people/etc. mentioned in this episode:

•  Rykaworld (her newsletter) 
• Béla Bartók
• Pass with Care by Cooper Lee Bombardier
• Yoko Ono
• Dolly Parton 

The episode transcript will be uploaded in the not-too-distant future. (Sorry!)

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Some of Jeanne's work:

• Summer Fun
• The Black Emerald: Novellas & Stories 
• The Dream of Doctor Bantam

Some of the works/people/etc. mentioned in this episode: 

• The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson (ofc)
• I Am Brian Wilson: A Memoir by Brian Wilson (with Ben Greenman)
• Perfecting Sound Forever: An Aural History of Recorded Music by Greg Milner
• Calvin and Hobbes
• We Had No Rules by Corinne Manning 
• Jeanne Thornton's review of We Had No Rules (on AGOTT)
• Corinne Manning's review of Summer Fun (at the Brooklyn Rail)
• Nevada by Imogen Binnie
• Detransition, Baby by Torrey Peters
• Little Fish by Casey Plett
• Instar Books
• Tori Amos Bootleg Webring by Megan Milks
• The Far Side of Madness by John Weir Perry
• Ulysses by James Joyce
• James Joyce by Richard Ellmann
• William Gaddis
• Songs My Mother Taught Me by Marlon Brando
• Bishakh Som 
• Miscellaneous Kisses by Hazel Jane Plante

The episode transcript will be uploaded in the not-too-distant future. (Sorry!)

Photo of Jeanne Thornton by Leslie Weems.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

The four books Megan Milks published in 2021: 

• Margaret and the Mystery of the Missing Body
• Slug and Other Stories
• Tori Amos Bootleg Webring (Remember the Internet #2)
• We Are the Baby-Sitters Club: Essays and Artwork from Grown-Up Readers (co-edited with Marisa Crawford)

Some of the works/writers/etc. mentioned in this episode: 

• Andrea Lawlor's Paul Takes the Form of a Mortal Girl 
• Samuel Delany
• Tori Amos
• Bessel van der Kolk's The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma
• Vivek Shraya's She of the Mountains
• Kai Cheng Thom's Fierce Femmes and Notorious Liars: A Dangerous Trans Girl's Confabulous Memoir
• Jeanne Thornton, including Summer Fun
• Kathy Acker
• Dodie Bellamy
• Queen's song "Bohemian Rhapsody"
• McKenzie Wark's Reverse Cowgirl
• Mildred Pierce zine
• Somewhere in Time (film)
• Carmen Maria Machado's Her Body and Other Parties and In the Dream House
• Julietta Singh's No Archive Will Restore You

The episode transcript will be uploaded in the not-too-distant future. (Sorry!)

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign.  

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Works by Kai Cheng Thom that are mentioned: 

• Fierce Femmes and Notorious Liars: A Dangerous Trans Girl's Confabulous Memoir
• I Hope We Choose Love: A Trans Girl's Notes at the End of the World
• A Place Called No Homeland
• From the Stars in the Sky to the Fish in the Sea
• For Laika, the Dog Who Learned the Names of the Stars
• So You’re Ready To Choose Love: Trauma-informed Conflict Transformation for Social Justice & Spiritual Growth workbook

Some of the works/writers mentioned in this episode: 

• Donald Winnicott
• Carl Jung
• jaye simpson
• Ursula K. Le Guin
• Megan Milks 's Margaret and the Mystery of the Missing Body
• Alexis Pauline Gumbs's Undrowned: Black Feminist Lessons from Marine Mammals
• Eleanor Coerr's Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes
• John Fox's The Boys on the Rock
• Joey Comeau's Lockpick Pornography
• Sarah Polley's Run Towards the Danger 
• Katherine Applegate's Animorphs series
• Octavia Butler's Wild Seed

The episode transcript will be uploaded in the not-too-distant future. (Sorry!)

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

You can find Wares (and get their music) via Bandcamp. 

We mention plenty of musicians during our conversation, including the following: 

• Cocteau Twins
• My Bloody Valentine
• Feist
• New Pornographers
• Broken Social Scene
• Vagabon
• Mitski
• Waxahatchee
• Metallica
• Arthur Russell
• Joan Armatrading
• Yoko Ono
• Courtney Barnett
• Public Enemy's Fear of a Black Planet
• Electrelane's The Power Out
• Hum's Inlet
• Fugazi's The Argument 

Photo of Cassia Hardy by Levi Manchak.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign.  

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Links and works related to Morgan M Page that are mentioned or relevant to the conversation: 

• her website 
• her Twitter
• her Instagram
• One from the Vaults, particularly the Valentine's Day episode (OFTV 4) on trans man Michael Dillon and his doomed romance with trans woman Roberta Cowell
• Valley of the D (her substack)
• Framing Agnes (forthcoming feature film co-written with Chase Joynt, who also directs)
• "Rental" (a short story she published in Plenitude in 2015)
• “Visions” (a short story she published in Meanwhile, Elsewhere, ed. Casey Plett and Cat Fitzpatrick, Topside Press, 2017)
• At Land, a chapbook novella published in 2014.
• “The Black Cube,” Procyon Science Fiction Anthology, ed. Jeanne Thornton, Tayen Lane Publishing, 2016.
• "Funny Hawaiian Toni Morrison" (her review of Ryka Aoki's novel He Mele A Hilo: A Hilo Song) published in TSQ in 2015
• Her review of Small Beauty by Jia Qing Wilson-Yang, published by Lambda Literary in 2016
• “One From the Vaults,” in Trap Door: Trans Cultural Production and the Politics of Visibility (edited by Reina Gossett, Eric Stanley, Johanna Burton), MIT Press/The New Museum. October 2017
• “Never Be New Again: Resisting the intoxicating trans first,” Valley of the D, 2021
• “The forgotten legacy of trans artist and activist Mirha-Soleil Ross,” Dazed Digital, February 2019
• “Aiyyana Maracle,” Queer Bible, November 2017
• "Numinous and Moving: The Rapture of Nina Arsenault," Valley of the D, 2021

A list of some people and works that are mentioned during our conversation (try to keep up!): 

• Chase Joynt, including the recent documentary No Ordinary Man, which he co-wrote and co-directed
• Max Disgrace
• Bryn Kelly
• Kyle Lukoff
• Mirha-Soleil Ross
• Glenn Copeland, including the recent documentary about him, Keyboard Fantasies
• Lynn Conway
• Candy Darling
• Jackie Curtis
• Holly Woodlawn
• Viviane Namaste, particularly her book Invisible Lives: The Erasure of Transsexual and Transgendered People (2000)
• Sylvia Rivera
• Marsha P. Johnson
• Tourmaline
• Nina Arsenault
• We Both Laughed in Pleasure: The Selected Diaries of Lou Sullivan (2019), edited by Ellis Martin and Zach Ozma
• Lou Sullivan: Daring To Be a Man Among Men (2017) by Brice D Smith
• Silas Howard, particularly By Hook or By Crook (2001), the film he co-wrote and co-directed with Harry Dodge
• Harry Dodge's book My Meteorite (2020)
• Max Wolf Valerio
• Zackary Drucker, particularly The Lady and the Dale, the documentary series about Liz Carmichael that she co-directed
• Angelica Ross
• Stephen Ira
• Reed Erickson
• Greer Lankton
• the TV series Pose
• the film Tangerine (2015)
• Imogen Binnie's novel Nevada (2013)
• Torrey Peters' novel Detransition, Baby (2021)
• David Lynch
• Maya Deren
• Caitlín R. Kiernan
• Dennis Cooper
• Kathy Acker
• Sarah Schulman
• Lana Del Rey
• the documentary Disclosure (2020)
• Ryka Aoki's novels  He Mele a Hilo: A Hilo Song (2014) and Light From Uncommon Stars (2021)
• Casey Plett's short story collection A Safe Girl To Love (2014)
• Topside Press
• David Wojnarowicz
• Jordy Rosenberg's novel Confessions of the Fox (2018)
• jia qing wilson-yang's novel Small Beauty (2016)
• Shola von Reinhold's novel LOTE (2020)
• Saidiya Hartman's book Wayward Lives, Beautiful Experiments (2020)
• Virginie Despentes, including her book King Kong Theory (2006)
• Paul B. Preciado's book Testo Junkie (2008)
• ORIGINAL PLUMBING: The Best of Ten Years of Trans Male Culture (2019), an anthology edited by Amos Mac and Rocco Kayiatos
• Aiyyana Maracle
• Xanthra Phillippa Mackay, including the zine Gendertrash from Hell (1993-95), which she co-edited with Mirha-Soleil Ross
• Jake Pyne
• Rupert Raj
• Roz Kaveney
• Jackie Shane
• Miss Major

Photo of Morgan M Page by Max Herridge.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign.  

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

The episode transcript will be uploaded in the not-too-distant future. (Sorry!)

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign.  

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Works by Torrey that we discuss: 

• Detransition, Baby
• Infect Your Friends and Loved Ones
• The Masker

Some of the works/writers/etc. mentioned in this episode: 

• Rainer Werner Fassbinder's essay “Six Films by Douglas Sirk" (New Left Review, no. 91, May/June 1975)
• Topside Press
• Karl Ove Knausgård
• T Fleischmann’s Time is the Thing a Body Moves Through
• Ali Blythe’s Hymnswitch
• Jordy Rosenberg's Confessions of the Fox
• James Joyce's story "The Dead" (Here is its final sentence: "His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead.")
• Ernest Hemingway's six word short story: "For Sale: Baby shoes, never worn."
• Ken Burns and Lynn Novick's PBS documentary Hemingway
• Jackie Ess's Darryl
• Gretchen Felker-Martin's Manhunt
• Ryka Aoki's Light From Uncommon Stars
• Jorge Luis Borges

The episode transcript will be uploaded in the not-too-distant future. (Sorry!)

Photo of Torrey Peters by Natasha Gornik.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Books by McKenzie that we discuss:  

• I'm Very into You: Correspondence 1995–1996 [with Kathy Acker] (2015)
• Reverse Cowgirl (2020)
• Philosophy for Spiders: On the Low Theory of Kathy Acker (forthcoming, Sept 2021)

Articles written by McKenzie that are mentioned:  

• Girls Like Us
• The Many-handed Hunger of Transsexuality: On T. Fleischmann
• Reality Cabaret: On Juliana Huxtable
• Commitment to the Bit: On Andrea Long Chu
• Paper Princess

Books by other writers that come up (in approximate order of appearance):  

• Blood and Guts in High School - Kathy Acker
• Pussy, King of the Pirates - Kathy Acker
• Time is the Thing a Body Moves Through - T Fleischmann
• Conundrum - Jan Morris
• Our Lady of the Flowers - Jean Genet
• Katherine’s Diary - Katherine Cummings
• The Freezer Door - Mattilda Bernstein Sycamore
• "Descent into the Maelström" [short story] - Edgar Allen Poe
• I Love Dick - Chris Kraus
• PSYCHO NYMPH EXILE - Porpentine Charity Heartscape
• Little Fish - Casey Plett
• Nevada - Imogen Binnie
• Infect Your Friends and Loved Ones - Torrey Peters
• Detransition, Baby - Torrey Peters
• I've Got a Time Bomb - Sybil Lamb
• Women in Clothes [an anthology edited by Sheila Heti et al. with a piece by Christen Clifford called "Mother, Daughter, Moustache"]
• The Argonauts - Maggie Nelson
• Bluets - Maggie Nelson
• My Meteorite - Harry Dodge
• The Subtweet - Vivek Shraya
• He Mele A Hilo - Ryka Aoki
• Next Year, For Sure - Zoey Leigh Peterson
• Paul Takes the Form of Mortal Girl - Andrea Lawlor
• Darryl - Jackie Ess

The full episode transcript is available right here. 

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

The episode transcript is available right here.

Photo of Vivek Shraya by Heather Saitz, 

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

The episode transcript is available right here. 

Photo of Kama La Mackerel by Laurence Philomene.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Episode transcript is available right here. The transcript also includes a list of links to things that we both mention in this episode (articles, interviews, events, etc.). 

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.

Episode transcript is available right here. 

The podcast theme song is "Tall Girl" by Wares from the album Survival, which you can (and probably should) get via Bandcamp. (This song appears courtesy of Wares and Mint Records.)

Our logo was designed by Rojina Farrokhnejad at HandMadeDesign. 

t4t is recorded and edited on the unceded ancestral territories of the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), and sə̓lílwətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Nations.