PART ONE
Lest you think it a dead subgenre, Paul and Scott revisit their examination of the "stutter rock" phenomenon with a modern day twist. 

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Jenna Andrews and Stephen Kirk

ABOUT JENNA & STEPHEN
Both professional and life partners, the Grammy-nominated songwriting and production team of Jenna Andrews and Stephen Kirk made a major splash with their contributions to the wildly successful soundtrack for the Netflix animated hit KPop Demon Hunters. Their contributions, “Free” and “What It Sounds Like,” came on the heels of their success with the BTS songs “Proof,” “Permission to Dance,” and “Butter,” which spent ten weeks at the top of the Billboard pop chart in 2021. The pair’s combined credits include work with Drake, Little Mix, Nelly Furtado, Ed Sheeran, Jennifer Lopez, Pharrell, Rita Ora, K. Michelle, and others. Both Jenna and Stephen appeared on the Netflix series Hitmakers, which spotlights the lives and careers of modern-day pop songwriters. 
 

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PART ONE
Paul and Scott chat about crossing a new friendship milestone and the long road to getting to speak with the unbelievably cool Jeff Barry. 

PART TWO
Our in-depth interview with Jeff Barry

ABOUT JEFF BARRY
Jeff Barry began his career as a recording artist for RCA and Decca Records, but attracted more attention for his original songs. After scoring pop hits with “Tell Laura I Love Her” and Sam Cooke’s recording of “Teenage Sonata” in 1960, Jeff joined forces with Ellie Greenwich and Phil Spector to pen such classics as “Da Doo Ron Ron,” “Then He Kissed Me,” “Be My Baby,” “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home),” “Chapel of Love,” and “River Deep – Mountain High.” Greenwich and Barry also recorded together as the Raindrops while continuing to find success with other artists, including landing number one hits with “Doo Wah Diddy Diddy,” “Leader of the Pack,” and the Tommy James and the Shondells recording of “Hanky Panky.” Rolling Stone magazine’s 2004 list of the “500 Greatest Rock Songs” included six Barry-Greenwich compositions, more than any other non-performing songwriting team.

As a producer, Barry helmed such hits as “Cherry, Cherry” by Neil Diamond and “I’m a Believer” by The Monkees. After parting ways with Greenwich, Jeff began writing with Andy Kim, with whom he had the biggest hit of 1969 when he co-wrote and produced “Sugar, Sugar” by the fictional cartoon band The Archies. A few years later, Jeff was nominated for the Song of the Year Grammy for Olivia Newton John’s 1974 chart-topping recording of “I Honestly Love You.” Additionally, he found success on the country charts in the 1970s and ‘80s with top 5 singles such as “Out of Hand,” recorded by Gary Stewart” and “Lie to You For Your Love,” recorded by the Bellamy Brothers. Never bound by genre categories, he also enjoyed top 5 R&B successes in those decades with songs such as “Heavy Makes You Happy” for the Staple Singers and “The Last Time I Made Love,” a song he wrote with Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil that was recorded by Joyce Kennedy and Jeffrey Osborne.

In addition to writing more than 50 different songs that have reached the top 40 on the Billboard charts, Jeff penned the theme songs for TV shows such as One Day at a Time (“This Is It”), The Jeffersons (“Movin’ on Up”), and Family Ties (“Without Us”). In 2019 he and writing partner Clarence Jey composed and wrote songs for the animated Nickelodeon show Lego City Adventures. 

Jeff Barry and Ellie Greenwich are in the top 20 of Rolling Stone’s list of the 100 Greatest Songwriters of All Time and were inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2010. Jeff has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the National Academy of Songwriters and was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. 

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PART ONE
Paul and Scott talk about...(gasp!) NEW music! 

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Alexa Ray Joel

ABOUT ALEXA RAY JOEL
Singer, songwriter, and pianist Alexa Ray Joel released her debut EP Sketches in 2006 and has since released a series of singles, including the most recent, “Heavy Eyes.” The daughter of legendary singer-songwriter Billy Joel and supermodel and actress Christie Brinkley, Alexa Ray began writing songs as a teenager. Her performances at Café Carlyle have showcased her eclectic repertoire, including original songs, Broadway numbers, and nods to her father and Ray Charles, for whom she was named. The New York Times praised her as a “singer confidently following her heart.” She has been a part of The Gap’s “Back to Blue” television ad campaign, and has ventured into the fashion world, appearing on magazine covers and participating in fashion weeks. She sang alongside her father in the final year of his Madison Square Garden residency in 2024 and says her favorite Billy Joel song is “Lullaby (Goodnight, My Angel),” which he wrote for her. Alexa Ray’s “Heavy Eyes” follows on the heels of “Riverside Way,” which illustrates the sonic diversity of her music and is leading up to the release of a 5 song EP later this year.

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PART ONE
Paul and Scott kick off the new year with a discussion about the nominees for the upcoming Grammy Awards. And more! 

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Taj Mahal

ABOUT TAJ MAHAL
Singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist Taj Mahal has mastered the blues form and has further built upon it by incorporating world music influences and expanding the boundaries of the genre. Growing up in Massachusetts, he made his way to Southern California in the mid-1960s where he formed the Group Rising Sons with Ry Cooder, Jessie Lee Kincaid, and Kevin Kelley. They signed with Columbia Records but, upon disbanding, Taj joined forces with guitarist Jesse Ed Davis and remained on the label as a solo artist. After a dozen albums with Columbia, he moved to Warner Bros. Records in the mid-1970s. Following a period spent living in Hawaii and largely out of the limelight in the 1980s, he ultimately reemerged for a new era of commercial success. Taj has been nominated for 18 Grammy Awards, winning five, including Best Contemporary Blues Album in 1997, 2000, 2008, and 2018, and best Traditional Blues Album in 2022 and 2025. He has received the Lifetime Achievement Award from both the Americana Music Association and the Recording Academy. His most recent album, a duet project with Keb’ Mo’ called Room on the Porch, is nominated for the Best Traditional Blues Album Grammy at the upcoming Awards on February 1st. 
 

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ABOUT WALTER AFANASIEFF

Thirteen-time Grammy nominee and two-time winner Walter Afanasieff is best known for his collaborative songwriting and production partnership with Mariah Carey that yielded hit singles such as “Can’t Let Go,” “Dreamlover,” “Hero,” “Without You,” “Anytime You Need a Friend,” “Butterfly,” “My All,” and “One Sweet Day,” a duet with Boyz II Men that was named ASCAP Song of the Year. It hit #1 in December of 1995 and stayed there for sixteen weeks—a record that remained unbroken for more than two decades. Their “All I Want for Christmas is You” was released in 1994 and has since become a holiday standard. It hit #1 on Billboard’s pop chart for the first time in 2019, giving Walter and Mariah the world record for the longest period of time between a song’s original release and its arrival at the top of the chart.  

In addition to his success with Carey, Afanasieff carved out a formidable reputation as a go-to producer of hit movie songs. After co-writing and co-producing the Gladys Knight single “License to Kill” from the James Bond film of the same name, he went on to produce “Beauty and the Beast,” “A Whole New World” from Aladdin, “Even If My Heart Would Break” from The Bodyguard, and “My Heart Will Go On” from Titanic, which became the best-selling single in the world for 1998. Additionally he produced “Some Day” from The Hunchback of Notre Dame and the Academy Award nominated “Go the Distance” from Hercules.

Other hits from the Walter Afanasieff songbook include “Can You Stop the Rain,” a #1 R&B single for Peabo Bryson that earned a Grammy nomination for Best R&B Song, “Missing You Now,” a #1 Adult Contemporary hit for Michael Bolton, “If You Go Away,” a Top 20 single for New Kids on the Block, Savage Garden’s #1 pop single “I Knew I Loved You,” and Ricky Martin’s massive global hit “She Bangs.”

The long list of additional artists Walter has written and produced music for includes Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie, Luther Vandross, Destiny's Child, Kenny G, Andrea Bocelli, Johnny Mathis, Kenny Loggins, Barbra Streisand, Christina Aguilera, Marc Anthony, Babyface, and Josh Groban.  

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PART ONE
Scott and Paul talk about the sports games and so much more

PART TWO
Our in depth conversation with Mike Reid

ABOUT MIKE REID

Nashville Songwriters Hall of Famer Mike Reid has written twelve #1 country songs and has had his work recorded by Bonnie Raitt, Anita Baker, Bette Midler, Prince, George Michael, Nancy Wilson, Etta James, Kenny Rogers, Ann Murray, Wynonna Judd, Alabama, Joe Cocker, Tanya Tucker, Willie Nelson, Collin Raye and Tim McGraw. He is perhaps best known for co-writing the modern-day standard “I Can’t Make You Love Me” with Allen Shamblin. 

Launching his music career as a staff songwriter for country star Ronnie Milsap’s publishing company, Reid penned Milsap hits such as “Stranger in My House,” which won a Grammy for Best Country Song” and “Lost in the Fifties Tonight,” which was named ASCAP’s Country Song of the Year. As an artist, Mike signed with Columbia Records and scored a #1 hit with the self-penned “Walk on Faith.”

Others who’ve recorded Reid’s songs include Tammy Wynette, Rita Coolidge, Don Williams, Billy Dean, Josh Turner, Shelby Lynne, The Judds, George Jones, and Shania Twain. A true Renaissance man, Reid went on to compose theatrical and operatic works, winning a Richard Rodgers Development Award from the Academy of Arts and Letters for 1997's The Ballad of Little Jo. His most recent project is a collaborative album with Joe Henry called Life and Time.
 

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ABOUT ELVIS COSTELLO

Released between 1977 and 1979, Elvis Costello’s first three albums—My Aim is True, This Year’s Model, and Armed Forces—were all included in Rolling Stone magazine’s list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time. That early period of his recording career yielded now-classic singles such as “Alison,” “Watching the Detectives,” “Pump it Up,” “Radio Radio,” “Oliver’s Army,” “Accidents Will Happen,” and others.

Though he established his career as a rock artist and reached commercial heights in the US with the pop hit “Everyday I Write the Book,” Costello’s more than thirty studio albums cover a breathtaking range of stylistic ground, from Almost Blue, his early 1980s album of country covers, to The Juliet Letters, his 1993 collaboration with The Brodsky Quartet, to North, an album of ballads partially inspired by his wife Diana Krall that topped Billboard’s Jazz chart in 2003, to Il Sogno, his first full-length orchestral work, which was performed by the London Symphony Orchestra, and topped Billboard’s classical chart in 2004, to Wise Up Ghost, a 2013 collaboration with Questlove and The Roots. In between, he’s continued to release albums both solo and with his bands The Attractions, The Imposters, and The Sugarcanes. 

Always an adventurous collaborator, Costello entered into a fruitful songwriting partnership with Paul McCartney that yielded more than a dozen songs, including Costello’s Top 10 single “Veronica” and McCartney’s “My Brave Face.” He went on to release entire collaborative albums with Richard Harvey, Burt Bacharach, Allen Toussaint, and others. He has written lyrics for compositions by Charles Mingus, Billy Strayhorn and Oscar Peterson, as well as musical settings for lyrics by Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan. His songs have been covered by a range of artists including George Jones, Chet Baker, Dusty Springfield, and Solomon Burke. 

Costello has been nominated for fourteen Grammy awards, two of which he won, as well as an Academy Award for co-writing “The Scarlet Tide” with T-Bone Burnett for the film Cold Mountain. He has received two Ivor Novello awards for Songwriting, the Americana Music Association’s Lifetime Achievement in Songwriting award, and the ASCAP Founder’s Award, which was presented by Burt Bacharach. He was inducted into both the Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, and was named one of the 100 Greatest Songwriters of All Time by Rolling Stone magazine. His genre-stretching new album, Hey Clockface, was recorded in Helsinki and Paris, and was released on October 30. 

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PART ONE
Paul and Scott chat about their music-themed road trip and say R.I.P. to MTV. 

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Joe Henry

ABOUT JOE HENRY
Joe Henry is a singer-songwriter who became a record producer as a protege of T Bone Burnett. He went on to win Grammy awards for his work with Solomon Burke, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, The Carolina Chocolate Drops, and Bonnie Raitt. Additionally, he produced the final albums of the late Allen Toussaint, who credited Henry for ushering him out of retirement. Henry’s contribution to American music remains somewhat enigmatic. Joe’s own records often feature adventurous contributions by instrumentalists, such as one of only two cameos Ornette Coleman ever made with a singer, while his song “Stop” was reworked into Madonna’s hit pop single, “Don’t Tell Me.” The long list of artists Joe has produced includes Ani DiFranco, Aimee Mann, Bettye LaVette, Elvis Costello, Rodney Crowell, Aaron Neville, Hayes Carll, Joan Baez, The Milk Carton Kids, Rhiannon Giddens, and many others. As a songwriter he has collaborated with Rosanne Cash, Jakob Dylan, Loudon Wainwright III, Billy Bragg, Madonna, and many more, while releasing 17 studio albums as an artist. He received a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Americana Music Honors & Awards in 2025. Joe’s most recent album is Life and Time, a collaborative project with fellow songwriter Mike Reid. 

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ABOUT TODD SNIDER

Celebrated singer-songwriter Todd Snider has continued the troubadour legacy of mentors like John Prine, Jerry Jeff Walker, and Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, while putting his uniquely clever, wry, sly, and often irreverent spin on folk, rock, country, and Americana. Launching his career on Jimmy Buffett’s Margaritaville Records, Snider has spent more than two decades touring relentlessly, both on his own and with legendary artists such as Emmylou Harris. Along the way he’s made a splash with fan favorite songs such as “Talking Seattle Grunge Rock Blues,” “Alright Guy,” “Can’t Complain,” “Beer Run,” “Statistician’s Blues,” and “Play a Train Song.” He has released well over a dozen albums, including The Devil You Know and Agnostic Hymns and Stoner Fables, both of which were named to Rolling Stone’s list of the Top 50 Albums of the Year. He also formed the group Hardworking Americans, and published a memoir called I Never Met a Story I Didn’t Like: Mostly True Tall Tales. His songs have been covered by Garth Brooks, Gary Allan, Mark Chesnutt, Tom Jones, Jerry Jeff Walker, Billy Joe Shaver, Elizabeth Cook, Warren Haynes, Loretta Lynn, and Elvis Costello. When we first spoke to him he'd recently released his experimental funk-influenced album called First Agnostic Church of Hope and Wonder. Snider died from complications with pneumonia on November 14, 2025. 

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PART ONE:
Paul and Scott discuss particularly recognizable bassists and chat about their expectations of what they thought Bootsy would be like before he landed the mother ship on Songcraft. 

PART TWO:
Our in-depth conversation with the legendary Bootsy Collins

ABOUT BOOTSY COLLINS:
Named among the top 5 bassists of all time by Rolling Stone magazine, Bootsy Collins is one of funk and R&B’s most iconic musicians, singers, frontmen, producers, and characters. He started out playing sessions for King Records in his hometown of Cincinnati, Ohio, then kickstarted his career with James Brown’s backup band, The J.B.'s. He was credited as a songwriter on classic J.B.’s songs such as “The Grunt” and “These Are the J.B.’s.” In 1972, he joined George Clinton’s Parliament-Funkadelic, and is a co-writer of classics such as “Up for the Down Stroke,” “Chocolate City,” “P-Funk (Wants to Get Funked Up),” “Give Up the Funk (Tear the Roof Off the Sucker),” “Mothership Connection,” “Dr. Funkenstein,” and “Flash Light.” In 1976, Bootsy’s Rubber Band captivated audiences with his flashy star-shaped glasses and bass, and hits such as “I’d Rather Be With You” and the chart-topping “Bootzilla.” Since then, Bootsy has launched Bootzilla Productions and Funk University to help mentor younger creatives to reach their full potential. His inescapable influence on pop culture can be heard in the music of Snoop Dogg, Outkast, Dr. Dre, Flea of Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rick James, Prince, Daft Punk, Primus, Thundercat, and in Childish Gambino’s Grammy-winning platinum hit “Redbone,” which paid homage to “I’d Rather Be With You.” Bootsy is a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and the National Rhythm & Blues Hall of Fame. His latest album is called Album of the Year #1 Funkateer. 

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ABOUT RICHARD MARX:

Grammy-winning performer Richard Marx has sold more than 30 million albums as an artist, but if you only know him from late 1980s ballads such as “Hold on to the Nights” and “Right Here Waiting,” you only know part of the story. A prolific songwriter, Marx has landed fourteen songs at the top of various Billboard charts, and has written a #1 single in each of the last four decades. His genre-crossing songwriting success includes “What About Me” and “Crazy,” which Kenny Rogers carried to the top of the Adult Contemporary and Country charts, respectively; “Edge of a Broken Heart,” a hit for the female metal band Vixen; “This I Promise You,” a Top 5 pop single for NSYNC that stayed at #1 on the Adult Contemporary Chart for 13 weeks; Josh Groban’s debut single “To Where You Are,” which also reached #1; and “Dance With My Father,” which Richard wrote with the song’s performer, Luther Vandross, and which earned the pair the prestigious Grammy Song of the Year award in 2004. Additionally, Richard has scored three major hits with Keith Urban: the Top 5 “Everybody,” and the #1 singles “Better Life” and “Long Hot Summer.”  

Despite all his songwriting success, however, Marx is best known as a singer and performer who today jokes about his 80s hairstyle and of-the-era drum sounds. But the songs are undeniable, all of which Marx wrote and produced himself. His debut self-titled album yielded four Top 5 singles: “Don’t Mean Nothing,” “Should’ve Known Better,” “Endless Summer Nights,” and “Hold on to the Nights.” His follow-up, 1989’s Repeat Offender, was even more successful, going quadruple-platinum and earning two number one Billboard pop singles, “Satisfied” and “Right Here Waiting,” in addition to the Top 5 “Angelina.” More hits followed, including “Keep Coming Back,” “Hazard,” “Take This Heart,” “Now and Forever,” and “Until I Find You Again.” 

In addition, Richard’s songs have been integral to a number of successful film soundtracks. He earned a Grammy nomination for his contributions to St. Elmo’s Fire; scored a Top 10 pop hit with “Surrender to Me,” which Ann Wilson of Heart and Robin Zander of Cheap Trick recorded for the movie Tequila Sunrise, and wrote “At the Beginning,” a hit duet for the film Anastasia that Richard performed with Donna Lewis. 

Over the course of his career, Richard’s songs have been recorded by Barbra Streisand, The Tubes, Sarah Brightman, Monica, Natalie Cole, Michael Bolton, Paulina Rubio, Emerson Drive, Chicago, Billy Ray Cyrus, Vince Gill, Kenny Loggins, LeAnn Rimes, Celine Dion, Julio Iglesias, Berry Manilow, Daughtry, Vertical Horizon, Lifehouse, Dave Koz, Jennifer Nettles, Ringo Starr, and many others. 

His memoir, Stories to Tell, is available from Simon & Shuster. 
 

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PART ONE
Paul and Scott chat about how impressed they are with all the various hats Alison Brown and Steve Martin wear, while also trying to wrap their heads around the seeming complexity of the banjo. 

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Steve Martin and Alison Brown

ABOUT STEVE MARTIN AND ALISON BROWN

Though he began his career as a stand-up comedian, Steve Martin has released more musical albums than comedy albums. Between 2009 and 2017 he issued six, many of which were collaborations with Steep Canyon Rangers, Edie Brickell, or both. They all reached number one on the bluegrass chart, and nearly all appeared on the Billboard 200. He has been nominated for 15 Grammy awards and has won five, including Best American Roots Song, Best Bluegrass Album, and Best Country Instrumental Performance for his appearance on “Foggy Mountain Breakdown” alongside Earl Scruggs, Vince Gill, Albert Lee, and Glen Duncan on the 2001 album Earl Scruggs and Friends. Martin’s latest album, his seventh bluegrass chart topper, is called Safe, Sensible and Sane, and is a collaboration with fellow banjoist Alison Brown.

Brown first came to prominence as a member of Alison Krauss and Union Station and, in 1991, became the first woman to win the International Bluegrass Association’s Banjo Player of the Year award. After a stint as Michelle Shocked’s band leader she launched a solo career blending bluegrass, jazz, Latin, and Celtic influences. She has received two Grammy nominations for Best Bluegrass Album, and two for Best Country Instrumental Performance, one of which she won for “Leaving Cottondale,” a collaboration with Bela Fleck. In 2015 Alison received the Distinguished Achievement Award from the International Bluegrass Music Association for the furtherance of bluegrass music. She and Martin first collaborated on “Foggy Mountain Breaking” from her 2023 album, On Banjo. 

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ABOUT DAVID PORTER 
Named one of Rolling Stone magazine’s “100 Greatest Songwriters of All Time,” Porter is best known for his songwriting partnership with Isaac Hayes that helped define the sound of Memphis’s legendary Stax Records. As the first African American staff songwriter at Stax, Porter, along with his partner, wrote and produced songs such as “B-A-B-Y” for Carla Thomas, “Your Good Thing (Is About to End)”—an R&B hit for Mable John that later became a pop and R&B smash for Lou Rawls, and his own recording of “Can’t See You When I Want To.” Hayes and Porter are best known, however, for their work with Sam & Dave, including such classic hits as “You Don’t Know Like I Know,” “You Got Me Hummin’,” “Hold On! I’m Comin’” (which later became a country hit for Waylon Jennings and Jerry Reed), “Soul Man” (which became a hit a second time thanks to the Blues Brothers), “I Thank You” (which was later covered by ZZ Top), and “When Something is Wrong with My Baby” (which was reimagined as a memorable duet between Otis Redding and Carla Thomas, a country hit for Sonny James, and an adult contemporary hit for Linda Ronstadt and Aaron Neville). The list of artists who’ve covered Porter’s songs includes Aretha Franklin, Bruce Springsteen, William Bell, Melissa Ethridge, Bonnie Raitt, Garth Brooks, Etta James, Celine Dion, Wilson Pickett, George Benson, Dusty Springfield, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Staple Singers, Solomon Burke, James Brown, Eric Clapton, B. B. King, Tina Turner, Jackie Wilson, and more. His songs have been used as samples in countless recordings by artists such as Jay-Z, Eminem, Wu-Tang Clan, The Notorious B.I.G., Justin Bieber, Mariah Carey, and others. A highly celebrated giant among celebrated songwriters, Porter was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2005. 

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PART ONE
Scott and Paul talk about how technology is changing the songwriting game, and other old man complaints. 

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Shawn Camp  

ABOUT SHAWN CAMP
Singer/songwriter Shawn Camp has written chart-topping hits such as “Two Pina Coladas” by Garth Brooks, “How Long Gone” by Brooks & Dunn, “Would You Go With Me” by Josh Turner, and “River of Love” by George Strait. Additionally, he has written charting singles for Blake Shelton, Billy Currington, Hal Kechum, Wade Hayes, the duo of Sammy Kershaw and Lorrie Morgan, and others. With a foundation in bluegrass and roots music, Shawn became a trusted collaborator of legends such as Loretta Lynn, Guy Clark, and John Prine. He wrote two songs, including the title track, of Willie Nelson’s 2022 album, A Beautiful Time, which won the Grammy for Country Album of the Year. Camp has also earned Grammy awards for his production work on Guy Clark’s final album, My Favorite Picture of You, and for his work as a member of the bluegrass group The Earls of Leicester. Other artists who’ve recorded Shawn Camp songs include Randy Travis, Patty Loveless, Alan Jackson, Kenny Chesney, Rhett Akins, Gary Allan, John Anderson, Gene Watson, Porter Wagoner, and Emmylou Harris. Shawn’s latest album as a solo artist—his first in almost 20 years—is The Ghost of Sis Draper. The theme album is based around a collection of songs co-written with Guy Clark and is available on Truly Handmade Records, which is dedicated to preserving and building upon Clark’s legacy. 

 

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ABOUT EMILY SALIERS
Singer-songwriter Emily Saliers is best known as one half of  Indigo Girls, which NPR called “one of the finest folk duos of all time.” The Georgia-raised musical icon is the sole writer of some of the group’s best-known titles, including “Closer to Fine,” “Hammer and a Nail,” “Galileo,” “Least Complicated,” “Power of Two,” “Get Out the Map,” and others. With fifteen studio albums to their credit, Indigo Girls are Grammy award winners and winners of the Pell Award for Lifetime Achievement in the Arts. They’ve earned seven gold, four platinum, and one double platinum award for album sales and have collaborated with REM, Joan Baez, Brandi Carlile, P!nk, and Rage Against the Machine’s Tom Morello.  In addition to her work with Indigo Girls, Saliers and her father, a retired theology professor, co-wrote the book A Song to Sing, a Life to Live: Reflections on Music as Spiritual Practice. In recent years she released her debut solo album, Murmuration Nation, and has remained an impassioned activist and advocate for causes close to her heart.

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A proud member of the Recording Academy and a vocal advocate for songwriters’ rights, Whitney has spoken on Capitol Hill, testifying in support of creators and playing a key role in the fight to uphold increased streaming royalties for songwriters. She is also a member of the cast of the Netflix show Hitmakers, which follows an ensemble cast of elite songwriters as they travel the world attending writing camps for today’s biggest artists—offering an inside look at the stories, stakes, and creative alchemy behind the hits. 

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PART ONE
Paul and Scott talk about the unfortunate history of songs about rock & roll.

PART TWO
Scott's in-depth conversation with Hayes Carll

ABOUT HAYES CARLL

Singer, songwriter, and Americana mainstay Hayes Carll hit the scene in 2002 with his independently released debut album, Flowers & Liquor. The follow-up, Little Rock, featured songs co-written with Ray Wylie Hubbard and Guy Clark, and became the first self-released album to top the Americana chart. Moving to Lost Highway Records for his third album, Hayes won Song of the Year for “She Left Me for Jesus” at the Americana Music Awards. Soon after, he was honored with the Americana Music Association’s Emerging Artist of the Year recognition. As he continued to release new music, other artists began recording Hayes’s songs, including Kenny Chesney, Brothers Osborne, and Lee Ann Womack, whose recording of “Chances Are” earned Hayes a Grammy nomination for Best Country Song. To date, he has released nine studio albums, two of which—Lovers and Leavers and What It Is, hit the top 10 on Billboard’s folk album charts. His most recent album, We’re Only Human, was released this summer. 

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ABOUT DAN WILSON

Songwriter, singer, musician, producer and acclaimed visual artist Dan Wilson is a Minnesota native and Harvard graduate who launched his music career with the band Trip Shakespeare, which was signed to A&M Records. He went on to co-found the rock band Semisonic, whose platinum-selling Feeling Strangely Fine album yielded the singles “Secret Smile,” “Singing in My Sleep,” and “Closing Time,” a chart-topping hit that earned Dan a Grammy nomination for Best Rock Song. 

He went on to reinvent himself as a behind-the-scenes hitmaker, earning a Song of the Year Grammy for co-writing “Not Ready to Make Nice” with the group then known as The Dixie Chicks, and writing three songs on Adele’s multiplatinum 21 album: “Don’t You Remember,” “One and Only,” and “Someone Like You,” which became an international hit and earned Dan an Album of the Year Grammy for his production work. Wilson has also found success in Nashville, co-writing Dierks Bentley’s number one hit “Home” and earning yet another Album of the Year Grammy nomination for Taylor Swift’s Red LP, for which he co-wrote and produced the song “Treacherous.” 

Dan’s long list of collaborators includes Carole King, Rachel Yamagata, Jason Mraz, Gabe Dixon, Weezer, Keith Urban, Josh Groban, James Morrison, P!nk, Leann Rimes, John Legend, Chris Stapleton, Panic! At the Disco, Cold War Kids, Noah Cyrus, Leon Bridges, Celine Dion, and many others.

In addition to his acclaimed Words and Music by Dan Wilson solo concerts, he launched a social media series called Words & Music in Six Seconds. The series, which focuses on “forging collaborative relationships, seeking a community, testing out ideas in front of an audience, and writing better songs,” was turned into a deck of 75 cards, designed by Dan, that distill his insights from nearly three decades of writing, performing, and collaborating with the world’s greatest musical artists. You can get your own set and find out more about Dan’s amazing career at danwilsonmusic.com. 

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PART ONE:
Paul and Scott tell the harrowing tale of the Wesley Schultz interview that almost didn't happen. Plus, do you have a question for Patty Griffin, Dave Mason, or Mary Chapin Carpenter? Share it with us and you just might hear your name on an upcoming episode! 

PART TWO:
Our in-depth conversation with Wesley Schultz. 

ABOUT WESLEY SCHULTZ
Wesley Schultz is best known as the co-founder, lead singer, and guitarist for The Lumineers. Founded in 2005, their blend of alternative rock, Americana, and electrifying live performances has earned them a dedicated following. Over the course of five studio albums, the band has achieved 24 #1 hits across multiple radio formats, earned over 6 billion streams, sold more than 1.5 million albums in the US, and built a Spotify following of 22 million monthly listeners. 

Their accolades include two GRAMMY® nominations, five Billboard Music Awards nods, an American Music Award nomination, and an iHeartRadio MMVA win for their #1 hit “Stubborn Love.” Aside from all that, Wesley Schultz is, fundamentally, a songwriter. The Lumineers’ most recent album is called Automatic. 

 

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PART ONE:
Paul and Scott talk about movie soundtracks, music discovery, and how technology changes but the power of music endures.

PART TWO:
Our in-depth conversation with Dave Pirner of Soul Asylum.

ABOUT DAVE PIRNER
Dave Pirner is best known as the lead singer, frontman, and primary songwriter for the Grammy-winning alternative rock band Soul Asylum. Formed in Minneapolis in the early 1980s, the group has blended punk, roots music, power pop and other influences to create its own unique sound. After a series of indie releases and two albums for A&M, the band’s widespread commercial breakthrough came with Columbia Records’ release of the Grave Dancer’s Union album in 1992. “Black Gold” and “Somebody to Shove” were hits on Billboard’s Alternative Rock chart, with the latter reaching #1. “Runaway Train” was a top-5 pop single and earned Pirner a Grammy for Best Rock Song. The follow-up album, Let Your Dim Light Shine, produced the top 20 singles “Misery” and “Just Like Anyone.” To date, Soul Asylum has released over a dozen studio albums and Pirner has released one solo album, Faces & Names, in 2002. The band’s most recent record, Slowly But Shirley, was released in September of 2024.  

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ABOUT STEVE PERRY
One of the most iconic voices in rock music history, Steve Perry is best known as the lead singer of the band Journey during the group’s most successful period. His first Top 20 pop hit as either a performer or songwriter was the solo-written “Lovin’, Touchin’, Squeezin’,” which became a hit for the band in 1979. In the following decade he co-wrote an unbelievable streak of classic songs with Neil Shon and Jonathan Cain, including “Any Way You Want It,” “Who’s Crying Now,” “Open Arms,” “Separate Ways,” ”Send Her My Love,” and “Don’t Stop Believin',” a single that’s been certified five times platinum. His 1984 debut solo album Street Talk produced the classic singles “Oh Sherrie” and “Foolish Heart.” After penning additional Journey hits “Be Good to Yourself,” “Girl Can’t Help It,” and “I’ll be Alright Without You” he departed the band and released his second solo album, For the Love of Strange Medicine, featuring the single “You Better Wait.” After briefly reuniting with Journey and co-writing the additional hits “When You Love a Woman” and “Message of Love” in the mid-1990s, he stepped away from recording. Steve returned in 2018 with his third solo album, Traces. In 2021 he released his fourth solo record, a holiday collection called The Season, produced by Steve and Thom Flowers, and featuring contributions from multi-instrumentalist Dallas Kruse. The Rock & Roll Hall of Famer, whom Rolling Stone magazine named among the “100 Greatest Singers of All Time” joins us to talk about exploring the great American Christmas songbook from a writer’s perspective, to share some stories about his own songs, and to offer some insight into his approach to the craft.

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With 26 Billboard #1 R&B hits and 16 Billboard #1 pop hits to their credit, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis are perhaps the most influential and successful songwriting and production duo in modern music history. With a total of 41 Top 10 hits in the US, Jimmy and Terry were named ASCAP Songwriters of the Year a record-breaking nine times. They are perhaps best known for their work with Janet Jackson, beginning with the Control album, which earned the duo a Grammy for Producer of the Year. Between 1986 and 1994 they scored thirteen #1 songs with Janet on either the R&B or pop chart, including “What Have You Done For Me Lately,” “Nasty,” “When I Think of You,” “Control,” “Let’s Wait Awhile,” “Miss You Much,” “Rhythm Nation,” “Escapade” “Love Will Never Do (Without You),” “The Best Things in Life Are Free,” “That’s the Way Love Goes,” “Any Time, Any Place,” and “Again,” which earned Jimmy, Terry, and Janet an Academy Award nomination for Best Original Song. 

Jimmy and Terry got their start as musicians with Morris Day and the Time, the Prince-produced band whose biggest hit was the Jam and Lewis-penned “Jerk Out.” They made the transition to a successful songwriting and production team working with the S.O.S. band, which landed a #2 R&B hit with “Just Be Good to Me.” From there, they made their mark on pop and R&B hits for decades to come. In addition to their work with Jackson, the duo wrote and produced the #1 pop singles “Human” by Human League, “Romantic” by Karyn White, “Thank God I Found You” by Mariah Carey, and the Boyz II Men singles “On Bended Knee” and “4 Seasons of Loneliness.” Additional R&B chart toppers include “Encore” by Cheryl Lynn, “Fake” by Alexander O’Neal, “Everything I Miss at Home” by Cherelle, “Sensitivity” by Ralph Tresvant, and the Johnny Gill singles “Rub You the Right Way” and “Wrap My Body Tight.” 

Other highlights from their catalog include New Edition’s “If It Isn’t Love” and “I’m Still in Love With You,” “No More Drama” by Mary J. Blige, Robert Palmer’s hit pop cover of their Cherelle single “I Didn’t Mean to Turn You On,” and recordings by Gladys Knight & The Pips, Barry White, Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie, Usher, Spice Girls, Aretha Franklin, Charlie Wilson, Ledisi, Sting, Elton John, Beyonce, Rihanna, Rod Stewart, Drake, Kendrick Lamar, Gwen Stefani, Willie Nelson, and many others.

Always versatile, the duo has earned Grammy awards for Best R&B Album for Chaka Kahn’s Funk This, Best Gospel Song for Yolanda Adams’ “Be Blessed,” and Best Dance Recording for Janet Jackson’s #1 pop and R&B hit “All For You.” Additional Jackson hits that were written and produced with Jam and Lewis include the Janet and Michael Jackson hit “Scream” and the #1 singles “Together Again,” “I Get Lonely,” “Doesn’t Really Matter,” and the Nelly duet “Call On Me.”

In total the team has earned over 100 gold, platinum, multi-platinum and diamond album certifications from the RIAA, have received more Producer of the Year Grammy nominations than anyone in history, earned the NAACP Lifetime Achievement Award, and were inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame. 

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PART ONE
Water. Bed. Rock!!!

PART TWO
Our in-depth conversation with Patterson Hood

ABOUT PATTERSON HOOD
Muscle Shoals, Alabama, native Patterson Hood is best known, along with Mike Cooley, as the co-founder of the band Drive-By Truckers. Drawing from a range of rock and country influences, the group emerged from the Athens, Georgia, music scene in the mid-1990s, releasing their debut album, Gangstabilly, in 1988. Following the success of their third album, Southern Rock Opera, Drive-By Truckers were named Band of the Year by No Depression magazine in 2002. Jason Isbell joined the group for the acclaimed albums Decoration Day, The Dirty South, and A Blessing and a Curse. Following Isbell’s departure, the album Brighter Than Creation’s Dark became Drive-By Truckers’ first album to reach the Top 40 on the Billboard 200 chart. Subsequent albums The Big To-Do, Go-Go Boots, English Oceans, and American Band all reached the Top 40, as well as the top ten on Billboard’s US Rock chart. In all, the band has released fourteen studio albums. In addition to his work with Drive-By Truckers, Hood has released four solo albums. The latest, released in February, is called Exploding Trees & Airplane Screams. 

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ABOUT SWAMP DOGG
R&B cult favorite Jerry “Swamp Dogg” Williams is best known as the co-writer, with Gary U.S. Bonds, of the cross-genre classic, “She’s All I Got,” which became a Top 10 R&B single for Freddie North and a #2 country hit for Johnny Paycheck in 1971. Tracy Byrd recorded it in 1996, hitting #4 on Billboard’s Country rankings and introducing the song to a new generation of fans. Williams’ career began in 1954 when, at the age of 12, he made his first record, “HTD Blues.” He found success in the 1960s, recording the Top 40 R&B hit “Baby You’re My Everything” under the name Little Jerry Williams, and writing songs for other artists, including Gene Pitney’s Top 20 Pop single, “She’s a Heartbreaker.” He became Atlantic Records’ first African American staff producer in 1968, but left the following year to pursue independent projects in Muscle Shoals, Alabama. By the 1970s he was an in-demand producer and songwriter, penning Top 40 R&B hits for Doris Duke, Arthur Conley, and Dee Dee Warwick. Around the same time, he reinvented himself as Swamp Dogg, releasing a series of eccentric deep soul albums whose gonzo lyrics were marked by frank sexuality, biting satire, radical politics, and provocative social observations. His debut LP, Total Destruction to Your Mind, was eventually certified Gold, while subsequent releases, including Gag a Maggott, I’m Not Selling Out – I’m Buying In, An Awful Christmas and a Lousy New Year, and The White Man Made Me Do It have earned considerable accolades among underground music lovers and earned Swamp what one journalist described as “a cultural niche somewhere between Rudy Ray Moore and Frank Zappa.” In recent years, his vast catalog has been sampled by Kid Rock, Talib Kweli, DMX, and others.
 

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PART ONE:
Scott and Paul talk about their visit with David Paich and other bits of tomfoolery.

PART TWO: 
Our in-depth conversation with David Paich

ABOUT DAVID PAICH:
David Paich is best known as one of the founding members of Toto, and the writer of some the group’s classic hits such as “Africa,” “Rosanna,” “Hold the Line,” “Georgy Porgy,” “99,” and “Pamela.” In addition to his success with the band, David collaborated with Boz Scaggs on the multi-million-selling Silk Degrees album, including the hits “Lowdown” and “Lido Shuffle,” and he co-wrote and produced the Cheryl Lynn hit “Got to Be Real.” Additionally, David composed much of the score for the David Lynch film Dune as well as the theme music for the 2008 summer Olympics. He is a six-time Grammy winner—including for Album of the Year, Record of the Year, and Producer of the Year—and he won an Emmy Award for Best Song or Theme. David’s songs have been recorded by Glen Campbell, Chicago, Weezer, Mary J. Blige, Anderson .Paak, and many others. As a studio musician he contributed to legendary recordings, including Michael Jackson’s Thriller album and “We Are the World.” David released his debut solo album, Forgotten Toys, in 2022. 

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ABOUT LINDA PERRY

Singer, songwriter, musician, producer, and Songwriters Hall of Fame inductee Linda Perry first made her mark as an artist, serving as lead vocalist and primary songwriter of the group 4 Non Blondes, which is best known for the Top 15 pop hit “What’s Up?” Following a couple of solo albums, Linda emerged as a powerhouse songwriter and producer thanks to her work on P!nk’s multiplatinum Misundaztood album. The debut single, “Get The Party Started,” which Linda wrote solo, was a global smash. She followed it up with another solo-written composition, “Beautiful,” which became a chart-topping ballad for Christina Aguilera that earned a Grammy nomination for Song of the Year. 

Subsequent chart success came with Gwen Stefani’s debut solo single “What You Waiting For,” Alicia Keys’s “Superwoman,” Ariana Grande’s debut single “Put Your Hearts Up,” Miley Cyrus’s “Hands of Love,” and additional singles for Aguilera, including the Top 10 hits “Hurt” and “Keeps Gettin’ Better.” Recently, Linda collaborated with Dolly Parton on the soundtrack of the film Dumplin’, including the song “Girl in the Movies,” which was nominated for both a Golden Globe and a Grammy award. 

Linda is a four-time Grammy nominee, including a 2019 nomination for Producer of the Year, making her the only solo female producer to ever earn a nomination for their work producing other artists. The long list of artists Linda has produced, collaborated with, or had her songs covered by include Adele, Courtney Love, Cheap Trick, Faith Hill, Britney Spears, KT Tunstall, Weezer, Pat Benetar, Solange, L.P., Joan Jett, The Chicks, Vanessa Carlton, Celine Dion, Elvis Costello, and Lady Gaga. In addition to her prolific songwriting and production activities, Perry is a multi-faceted music industry entrepreneur, having worked as a music publisher, manager, or mentor with artists such as James Blunt, Dorothy, and Natasha Bedingfield.

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To date, Howard Jones has sold over 10 million albums and continues to make new music and tour the world. His hits can be heard in high-profile television series and films such as “Stranger Things,” “Breaking Bad,” “Watchmen,” “The Carrie Diaries,” “Superstore” and “Bumblebee”. His most recent studio album is Dialogue, which was released in September, 2022, completing a trilogy of electronic releases that also includes the multimedia project Engage from 2015 and the studio album Transform from 2019. In August he released Live at the O2, which was recorded earlier this year at the famed London arena.

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Rachel issued the non-LP single "You Belong" in 2018, signaling a sonic shift away from her prior major label releases. Exploring new creative territory by embracing her struggles with mental health, Rachel has released recent songs such as “Girls,” “Mercy,” and “Bad Thoughts.” Poised to reassert herself as an artist focused on unflinching honesty and authenticity, she will release the album I Am Rachel Platten later this year. 

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Each member of Nickel Creek has taken part in a number of outside projects over the years. Thile is a 2012 recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship and served as the host of the radio show Live from Here (formerly known as A Prairie Home Companion) from 2016 to 2020. He has also released collaborative albums with world-renowned musicians as well as six studio albums with his Grammy-winning band Punch Brothers. Sean Watkins is a co-founder of Watkins Family Hour alongside Sara, which has released three albums and maintains a long-running collaborative show in Los Angeles. Sean has also released a string of solo albums, while Sara’s extracurricular projects include the aforementioned Watkins Family Hour, as well as the Grammy-winning roots trio I’m With Her. Sara has released four studio albums and has contributed fiddle to recordings by artists such as Phoebe Bridgers, the Killers and John Mayer.

The Grammy-nominated Celebrants, Nickel Creek’s fifth studio album and first project in nine years, was recorded at Nashville’s historic RCA Studio A and released to overwhelming critical acclaim in 2023.  

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PART TWO
Interview segments with Deanie Parker, William Bell, and Carla Thomas about their original holiday songs and what Christmas was like at Stax Records in the glory days. 

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He is perhaps best known, however, for his collaborations with Brian Wilson with whom he worked as a lyricist on The Beach Boys’ ill-fated Smile album. The pair revisited their work with the release of Brian Wilson Presents Smile in 2004. Though the Smile recordings weren’t released at the time, Van Dyke signed with Warner Bros. Records and, in 1967, released his album Song Cycle, an ambitious debut that incorporated a wide range of traditional American musical influences with experimental recording techniques. 

He went on to produce the debut albums by Ry Cooder and Randy Newman, and took a job as an executive at Warner Bros. Records in the 1970s. He became enamored with calypso music in that era, releasing a couple of albums as an artist showcasing the genre, and producing The Esso Trinidad Steel Band. Toward the end of the decade he began composing film soundtracks before returning in the 1980s with two albums of original material, Jump!, which explored the Uncle Remus and Br’er Rabbit stories, and Tokyo Rose, which explored the intersection between Japanese and American culture in the context of a trade war. In the 1990s, he and Brian Wilson teamed up once again to release the album Orange Crate Art. His most recent full-length album as a solo artist is 2013’s Songs Cycled. The long list of musicians Van Dyke has worked with includes The Byrds, Tim Buckley, Harry Nilsson, Little Feat, Steve Young, Phil Ochs, Frank Zappa, Ringo Starr, U2, Fiona Apple, Joanna Newsom, Skrillex, and many others.  

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