• Pam's positivity, resilience, becoming an author and other things she's proud of.
• Challenges through childhood such as a dysfunctional family that scared her, facing emotional abuse, a mentally ill person in the household, along seeing abuse and addiction around her.
• Her athletic journey of being a runner.
• The time she got hit by a car and survived.
• How she empowers women online as an exercise instructor.
• Techniques she advises to clients in order to take better care of themselves.
• Pam's seven books. (A look into her latest book on weight loss)
• Pam's advice on emotional eating.

Key Takeaways:

• Physical activity can help ease the mind from emotional pain and improve the way that you think.
• We must make time for self-care to become our best version.
• Manage your time well so that you have time for your priorities.
• Sleep is a necessity if you want to win each day.
• Do things that make you happy if you ever feel stressed.
• Staying positive can help your life for the better.
• What you do each day affects your body's performance as you age.
   
  Short Bio: Pam has worked in the health/wellness industry for 23 years and her focus has been on helping women feel great in their own skin. She focuses on helping women with self-care and not eating their emotions.
  "Our bodies are a Ferrari. Please don't treat it like a trashcan." – Pam Sherman
  Contact Pam:
  https://www.theperfectbalance.guru/
  https://www.instagram.com/perfectbalanceguru/
  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pam-sherman-84582134/
  Contact Esmie:
  Linkedin
  Facebook
  Instagram
  YoutubeTAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Struggles Jen faced growing up. (Being a female over 6 feet tall, bigger than peers, an eating disorder and accepting herself,)
• Jen's Adulthood and the struggles. (Alcohol addiction, going to jail, hospital visit and learning self-love)
• How Jen overcame her struggles and discovered her passion. (Self- acceptance, exercise, affirmations, helping others)
• Loving herself enough to change her life. (Doing things she likes such as switching jobs, doing speeches, writing and having an encouraging partner)
• Things that made her feel proud.
• Jen's book, Reset. A book about changing your life and reclaiming your power.

Key Takeaways:

• Accept yourself, and there are benefits to being different.
• Love yourself to truly live life, and overcome struggles.
• If you want your life to change, try to eliminate things from your life that are of no use to you.
• Try new things, spend more time on rewarding things that bring you joy.
• Struggles that are conquered brings forth victory and passion.
• Be happy to be yourself, there is no one like you, and that can be leverage if your best and being you.
• You can overcome your past. Others did it, and so can you if you believe.

"Being normal really isn't as cool as it is as being unique." – Jen Sugermeyer

Contact Jen:
jensugermeyer.com
twitter.com/jsugermeyer

nstagram.com/jensugermeyer

Contact Esmie:
Linkedin
Facebook
Instagram
YoutubeTAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Challenges Alka faced as a child with being bullied, fitting in, weight loss and other physical concerns.
• Overcoming childhood challenges as a teen by working out.
• Struggles during adult life (bonding with family, entrepreneurship, client retention
• How Alka makes herself feel good with affirmations and her passion for dancing.
• Gaining confidence by doing your best at things you love.
• Her passion for dancing, opening her boutique lifestyle fitness studio in Toronto. (Teaching aerial yoga, Zumba, helping individuals meet personal fitness goals and more.)
• How you can gradually work your way to success.

Key Takeaways:

• Challenges were made to be overcome so you can be stronger.
• Don't worry too much about fitting in. Just be yourself and be a good person.
• Haters may hate you, but they take the time to see what you're doing; they are your audience.
• Do things to make yourself happy.
• Change comes when you put in work!
• Working out improves not just your body shape but also your skin.

"Having the passion for what you love, whether it's your recreation, whether it's dance, or in your workouts, is when you love and you're having fun." –Alka Sharma

Bio:

Alka sharma. Is making waves in the Fitness world with her unique style and drive for a healthy lifestyle. Her three passions include dance, kickboxing, and helping individuals reach their full potential by nurturing them to be passionate about health and fitness.

Contact Alka:
https://www.alkastotalfitness.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alkastotalfitness/detail/recent-activity/posts/
https://www.facebook.com/alka.sharma.39589

Contact Esmie:
Linkedin
Facebook
Instagram
 

YoutubeTAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Challenges Bruce face as a child. (Living in the inner city, single-parent home, an environment with violence and addiction and people burning down their property for insurance money)
• The risky adventures children take part in. (playing in abandoned buildings, stealing
• The time when Bruce joined a gang as a teen, started a riot, set classes on fire, got into fights and being the class clown
• Bruce's journey of becoming religious and baptizing himself in the shower. (He became a five percenter, avoided drinking, smoking and other bad influences
• How Bruce became a well-known poet? (His journey starting with rap to staring on HBO, being quite versed with quotes and starting a movement)
• How Bruce avoids stress with prayer, meditation, forgetting fear and acceptance.

Key Takeaways

• African Americans and people with a background from the inner city usually work very hard to live a clean and successful life.
• Be the best in whatever task you take on, share the journey with others and watch yourself rise to the top of your industry.
• What you fear is usually attracted into your life, do not entertain fear in your life.
• Everything that happens in life is for a reason. Accept your path and make the most out of it.
  Short Bio:
  Bruce George, Founder of the Genius is Common Movement, Co-Founder of Def Poetry Jam on HBO.

"I don't do fear I do faith."- Bruce George

"This is a time for you to be reflective. This is the time for you to have faith and not fear. This is a time for you to be still. So you can work towards reinventing yourself." – Bruce George

Contact Bruce:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucegeorge/
https://twitter.com/brucegeorge1?lang=en
https://geniusiscommon.me/
 

Contact Esmie:
Linkedin
Facebook
Instagram

YoutubeTAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Challenges that Ruth faced. (Body image, stress and helping Robert through tough times)
• Challenges Robert faced (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, being shy, not being good at sports, thoughts of suicide, depression)
• Challenges with their baby's health and moving often.
• How Ruth overcame issues with body image. (Loving words from her father, a Wellness business inspired by her issues with body image and the passion she shares with her husband to help people from all around the world become mentally fit)
• The challenges of being a policeman/woman. (Family members believing they should be exempt from getting tickets or being stopped and that people don't expect police officers to make mistakes)
• Their Journey of being authors, entrepreneurs and speakers (Network marketing, retiring, overcoming dark times, partnering with their Psychologist to form an online program, sharing the stage with Les Brown and many other impactful speakers)
• A look into Ruth and Robert's online program, Renewed Mind. (A guide to becoming mentally fit, the heavily discounted price that Emsie's listeners get for the course)

Key Takeaways: 

• The best way to deal with your struggles is to take them head-on and help others do the same.
• Police officers do their best to do right but remember they are humans too and not perfect.
• Stability is important to a child's happiness and wellbeing.
• When life beats you up, have hope. Keep looking for happiness until you find it.
• You have to be mentally fit in order to take on the challenges of life and succeed.
  
  Bio: Ruth & Robert are international bestselling authors and speakers and are passionate about mental wellness. Ruth is a Wellness Coach, has her own Youtube Channel, and they have developed a program called "The Renewed Mind," where you will learn tips and strategies to manage your stress before it manages you.

"Sticks and stones can break your bones, but names will never hurt you. Well, that's not true. Sticks and stones can break your bones and names do go deep. They hurt you deeply." - Ruth Verbree 

Contact Ruth and Robert Verbree:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruth-verbree-732910174/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY0M1Qh9SugcjIjaDeiF_Hg
Ruth and  Robert's course: https://www.renewedmindonline.com/buynow

Contact Esmie:
Linkedin
Facebook
Instagram
Youtube

TAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

#lifecoachtraining #womensnetwork #livebydesign #betterbusiness #businesswisdom #thinkbigger #businessleader #coachingforwomen

• Rachel's journey through receiving her Ph.D. (Being an undergrad in biomedical science and dealing with rare blood abnormalities, teaching swimming and the struggle of being away from family)
• Details about Rachel's research on leaky vessels while attending Nottingham University.
• Rachel did not recover well enough from pneumonia and could not swim for three years.
• How athletes can become successful Entrepreneurs.
• The fact that athletes need to recognize that they are more than just athletes and
• Struggles Rachel and other athletes face after their athletic careers. (Knowing what to do after)
• Activities Rachel participated in after retiring from swimming. (Scouting, working, reflecting on life.
• How they both avoid unnecessary stress with exercise, avoiding distractions and using less social media.
  Key Takeaways: 
• It is essential to take enough time to rest if you ever face an injury.
• When you invest your life in being the best in something, it is easier for you to succeed in other things because of your personality.
• Athletes need to be prepared for life after participating in sports.
• Exercise is one of the most significant ways to have less stress.
• Try turning off notifications to control where your focus goes.
• It's okay to put yourself first.

'Rest is such an important part of life, whether it's recovering from an injury, an illness or just letting your body recharged from the day." –Rachel Boardman

Rachel's Bio:

Rachel is a former swimmer, a former research scientist and the host of the top 50 podcasts Beyond the Finish Line. She is on a mission to lift the lid on the challenges that athletes face when they retire and to help them take the steps from athlete to entrepreneur.

Contact Rachel: 
https://twitter.com/rachboardman1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachboardman/
https://www.instagram.com/rachboardman/
https://www.facebook.com/rachel.boardman13

Contact Esmie:
Linkedin
Facebook
Instagram
YoutubeTAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

#lifecoachtraining #womensnetwork #livebydesign #betterbusiness #businesswisdom #thinkbigger #businessleader #coachingforwomen

• What it was like for Jim to grow up in an Italian town as a child.
• How Jim was forced to quit running because he tore his anterior cruciate ligament?
• Jim's biggest challenge of adulthood, growing a business.
• How Jim's job experience and his first business helped him succeed in growing his second business?
• Jim's explanation on growing your business with personal brilliance.

Key Takeaways:

• In life, it's best to face disappointment from an early stage so that you can better prepare yourself for success.
• Experiences and challenges help you to prosper in the long run.
• A good organization gets all departments involved in problem-solving. If someone from a different department can get the job done, allow them to help solve the problem.
• People should feel free to innovate when working for a company.
  Jim's Bio: Jim Canterucci is the founder of Transition Management Advisors and is CEO of the software company Constituent Hub. Jim works with executive teams to help implement the strategies developed in the boardroom. Jim is the author of Change Project Management – The Next Step, and Personal Brilliance (AMACOM).
  "Figure out a way for the sales, marketing and the IT department to work very closely together on an initiative when they might not normally if it was just department by department. So a crossing of boundaries, that to me is the secret to success." – Jim Canterucci
  Contact Jim:
  Website: https://jimcanterucci.com/
  Twitter: https://twitter.com/canterucci
  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimcanterucci/
  Contact Esmie:
  Linkedin
  Facebook
  Instagram
  YoutubeTAKE THE SURVEY: HOW WOMEN MANAGE CHALLENGES

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

#lifecoachtraining #womensnetwork #livebydesign #betterbusiness #businesswisdom #thinkbigger #businessleader #coachingforwomen

• Jon struggled with being shy as a child.
• The struggle Jon faces with living in the present moment and the struggle of keeping an audience entertained.
• How purpose and passion led Jon to become an Entrepreneur. 
• Jon’s tips on how to have a great stage performance with visual punctuation, being natural, making a unique connection, and the right way to share important pointers with your audience
• How Jon decreases stress by spending time with his children.
• How Jon stays healthy with physical and mental exercises.
• Jon’s advice on how to overcome shyness. (Be yourself and do not worry about what others think of you)
• Jon’s advice on creating impactful connections in life.
  Key Takeaways:
• Be different, own everything you do, be yourself, and add your personal touch to things so that you stand out.
• Stage performers have a successful performance when they make a connection with the crowd.
• Stage performers should know when to go out into the crowd and interact with their audience to make a connection.
• Important pointers should be made on the stage’s camera for large groups with jumbo screens because most people stare at the screens.
• It’s the small activities that we do daily and self-assessment that determine how physically or mentally fit we become.
• Be confident and never be ashamed of who you are.
• It’s the small and unique moments that impact your life.
  
  “We all have a gift, but we just have to be willing to share it and give it that unique connection from us that human connection.” – Jon Petz
  
  Jon’s Bio: Jon Petz is a two-time, best sellers list author, keynote speaker on performance and award-winning conference emcee. He brings this passion and energy for performance, purpose and impact to events of all types, as well as to those he professionally coaches personally to strengthen their performance mindset. Jon is a former sales and marketing exec as well as a professional magician who has performed around the world. This combo brings relevancy to real-world challenges and opportunities as well as a masterful story-telling and engagement factor that is uniquely and unequivocally the Jon Petz Experience. USA Today, The Wall Street, Journal, CNBC, ABC News, Success Magazine and many other media outlets have covered his success and quest to help people engage deeper, perform better and fuel growth personally and professionally. His 2nd book “Boring Meetings Suck” is listed in Inc. Magazine as a top 10 Business book. As the founder of Miracles and Magic foundation, he produces a Las Vegas-style, grand illusion and comedy magic show that provides children with life-threatening illnesses a chance to forget about the hospital for a day!
  Contact Jon:
  Website
  Youtube
• Contact Esmie:
  Linkedin
  Facebook
  Instagram
  Youtube
  
  TAKE THE SURVEY: FOR WOMEN

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode.

 https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links, which means that if you choose to make a purchase, I will earn a small commission, which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence.  Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

#lifecoachtraining #womensnetwork #livebydesign #betterbusiness #businesswisdom #thinkbigger #businessleader #coachingforwomen

• Challenges Mark faced growing up, such as a perforated abdomen that almost killed him, growing up with a depressing background and suffering from depression.
• Mark's most significant accomplishment in life (dropping out of medical school twice and finishing and preventing others from committing suicide).
• How to know when someone is depressed (Their behaviour changes, they want to be alone, and most of the time, they seem sad.)
• Why standing up for a friend could help them to stop being suicidal?
• How Mark, a suicide specialist, saves lives by listening, showing love, believing in people that feel very low in life and need to know that everything is going to be okay eventually.
• Mark teaches why calling upon someone who believes in you and having a conversation with them can help you when you're feeling down.

Key Takeaways:

• Life is hard, and we will miss the good days if we give up on them.
• Never give up on life because there is always someone that's going to need you.
• You can know when someone is depressed when there is a drastic change in behaviour for the worst.
• You can save a life by listening and showing kindness along with empathy.
• You can overcome sadness by talking with someone that believes in you."I asked her what she was thinking and she looked at me then said. 'If you can really understand why I might have to kill myself to get out of this pain. Maybe I won't need to.'" – Mark Goulston

Dr. Mark Goulston’s mission is to make the world safe for humanity, one conversation at a time. He does that through speaking, coaching and training as one of the world’s foremost experts on empathic listening with his book, "Just Listen," becoming the top book on listening in the world.

Contact Dr. Mark Goulston: Website TwitterLinkedin Instagram

Contact Esmie: Linkedin Facebook Instagram Youtube

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

• How Perry learned to become self-sufficient at a young age.
• He took care of his sister with cerebral palsy and growing up in a small town. 
• Challenges of his adulthood: Job stability, fitting in, and showing empathy.
• The qualities of a good leader: Humility, emotional awareness, stewardship, showing others love and care.
• Challenges leaders must overcome: difficult conversations, controlling emotions, showing empathy and compassion.
• How great leaders grow and keep employees growing by learning more and teaching is okay to fail because you can grow after failure.
• Referrals and why good organizations do not struggle to hire good employees.  
• The right way to communicate with employees.

Key Takeaways: 

• Success begins with caring for others.
• A true leader leaves things and situations better than how they were before.
• Great leaders teach others how to lead in whatever they do. They are compassionate and know how to love others,
• We can control our emotions by giving ourselves time to feel and acknowledge the feeling before we respond.
• Don’t try to become a leader; get to know yourself and become the best version of who you truly are.
• Learn the benefits of failure to avoid being scared to try new things.
• A great business attracts great employees because people love to work for the company. 
• Face to face communication is best for sensitive or really important work conversations.
• People try to become someone else when they should become their best selves. Perry Maughmer Bio:I am focused on reinvigorating souls of relentless leaders because great work is never finished. I work best with malcontents and contrarians who strive to overcome their own bullshit in order to achieve meaningful goals.

“I think everybody has the potential within them to be a leader if they so choose it. We have to dedicate the time and the effort along with the energy to doing it.” –Perry Maughmer

Contact Perry: Website Linkedin FacebookContact Esmie: Linkedin Facebook Instagram Youtube

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

• Mark's mom saved him from a near-death experience as a child.
• He did not know enough about business when he started his business.
• Mark interviews his customers to develop new business.
• How to have a happy organizational culture?
• Avoid stress by doing work you love.
• Keep employees happy because they determine the organizational culture of your business.

Key Takeaways:

• Following your gut can be the right answer.
• You can achieve more by having a mentor.
• Do a self-assessment and sell what you are best at.
• Study your customers. Give them what they are searching for.
• Make up your mind about your calling and stick to it.
• Mark Faust Bio: Since 1990 Mark Faust’s growth advisory firm Echelon Management has taken many companies from worst to first in turnarounds and has worked with dozens of Fortune 500s, over 50 third-generation companies and hundreds of 8 and 9-figure hi-growth companies to raise the bar, in strategy, culture and innovation initiatives.

“All of us need to cast a vision of the future that's compelling, that draws us to it, that inspires us. And so it doesn't matter if it's the vision for your family, vision for your business vision for your hobby, or your club or your church.” – Mark Faust

Contact Mark: Website Linkedin Instagram

Contact Esmie: Linkedin Facebook Instagram Youtube

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

• Challenges of adulthood.
• Growing up without riches
• How to have engaged employees and avoid having a toxic work environment?
• Tips on staying happy when you encounter toxic people.
• How to treat toxic people
• Key Takeaways:
• Never forget who you truly are. In life, it is important to know what is meant for your abilities so that precious time is not wasted.
• Never settle for a toxic relationship. It is a huge unprofitable risk.
• A toxic work environment forms because of poisonous leadership and a lack of employee engagement. 
• You decide whether you are sad or happy, do not let others bring you down.
• Make an effort to be positive around toxic people, be the bigger person and acknowledge the situation. If this fails, decrease time with the individual or cut them off.

Lisa Ryan, CSP, helps organizations develop employee engagement strategies that keep their top talent from becoming someone else’s. Lisa is a Certified Speaking Professional and best-selling author of ten books. She also has served on many non-profit boards, including serving two terms as President of the National Speakers Association, Ohio Chapter.

“When you create a spot in your life, you leave that job, or you get rid of that toxic person out of your life, it expands to bring in somebody else to fill that and hopefully a more positive person or a more, you know, positive workplace environment.” –Lisa Ryan

Contact Lisa: Website Linkedin Instagram FacebookContact Esmie:Linkedin Facebook Instagram Youtube

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio 

• How to get rid of shyness
• Body Language Basics
• Tips to entrepreneurs
• How important it is to do the things that you are passionate about
• Biggest Struggles / Challenges: Having low self-esteem and being bullied

Key Takeaways:

• Encouraging people helps build their self-esteem, and they will learn how to take rejection.
• Life is too short. Make sure to follow your passion and do the things that ignite a fire in your soul.
• To reach success: Persevere, Stay focused and Be Inspired.
• Whatever your age, remember that It's never too late to discover and to learn.
• Be compassionate and kind to others; It will change not only yourself but also the world.

"Don't sweat the small stuff, everything's going to be great. You're going to do wonderful. Everything you're experiencing now is going to build you into a great person. So just keep going, where you're going, keep plugging away and do what you're doing.  Don't change anything." - Kerry Heaps

A veteran Entrepreneur of 15 years, Kerry is the Publisher of Pageant Platform Magazine and the Host of Pageant Platform Podcast. She is the former Owner of Strictly Marketing Magazine and host of Strictly Marketing Talk Radio. Kerry is a sought-after speaker on topics such as Leveraging your Publicity to Close More Deals, Bodies Don’t Lie-Body Language Basics, The Significance of Color in Wardrobe and the Psychology Behind It, The Network Game - Making Networking “Work” for Your Business, and Follow-up Tips for $uccess. Contact Kerry:

Twitter Linkedin Instagram

Contact Esmie:Linkedin Facebook Instagram Youtube

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on I heart radio

• Being different and how to handle criticisms?
• Spiritual DNA and different things a person’s body to plug them into the information of who they are.
• .Finding joy and happiness and staying in action.
• The biggest struggle: Not being understood and at the same time not being taken seriously.

Key Takeaways:

• Take the risks and always look at life from a different perspective and you’ll find joy in it.
• Always give your best in everything that you do and be an inspiration to others.
• Don’t let criticisms affect you and don’t let it get into your mind, heart and soul.
• If it makes you happy, just do it! Life is too short for regrets and worries.
• Finding your purpose is a life-long journey. Be patient. Once you’ve found it, you’ll feel joy, peace and contentment.

“Find your joy. And your joy is not outside of you. Happiness is fleeting moments,  find your joy and your joy starts when you start stepping into action. And that journey begins.” -  Gina Almgren

Gina Almgren Bio: Gina Almgren life’s journey began when she embraced Modern Mystery School. Initiated in 2009, Gina serves as a Sr. Guide, and Instructor with the Lineage. Illumination Tours, recently co-founded, combines Gina’s three passions; Advance Spirituality, special events & travel. If you know there’s more, the path into the ancient mysteries awaits! Gina Almgren has been a business developer & event professional for decades. Always a searcher, Gina’s true life’s journey began when she embraced the Mystery Teachings of the Lineage of King Salomon. Initiated in 2009, Gina is in full service as a Teacher, Healer, Senior Guide, and Instructor with, what’s known today as, the Modern Mystery School. Illumination Tours, recently co-founded, combines Gina;s 3 passions; Metaphysics, special events & travel. If you've always known that there's more to life; if you've always known there's more to who you are; if you seek your true potential, purpose and gifts, the path into the ancient mysteries is what you've been looking for!

Contact Gina:Facebook Website

Contact Esmie:Linkedin Facebook Instagram Youtube

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on iheartRadio

- Religion, Relationship to God and Faith 

- Being bullied and scared because of being different

- Passions and finding the true meaning and your purpose in life

- How to live a soul centred life and how to relieve stress

- The biggest struggle: Wanting to do something different but scared of what other people might say or think 

Key Takeaways:

- Put God first and trust Him and everything will change and everything will fall into place.

- Always look at life’s bigger picture.

-  When you start asking questions about your life, you begin to know the answers that you need and you'll eventually find the joy and contentment in it.

- The challenges in your life will be your source of strength and courage.

Teresa's Bio

Teresa is an international speaker, author and mentor-coach. She works with Servant-Leaders who are passionate about making an impact in a deep way and living their soul purpose. She helps them self-evolve and lead from the soul-centred mind to fulfill a life of service while living a lifestyle that makes them feel fully alive.

What would you say to your younger self? “I would tell her that all of these challenges that you're facing and  the fear that you're feeling are all going to be your courage and your strength that are going to take you to where you not only are where you are, you're meant here to go, but where you are going to feel the most joy in your life.” -  Teresa Campos

Contact Teresa:

Teresa's Website

Twitter

Linkedin

Instagram

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or              Listen on iheartRadio

• The effects of bullying on people
• Aging and how to stay young and healthy
• The importance of self-esteem, self-acceptance and self-love
• How to manage and relieve stress

Key Takeaways:

• You don’t need validation from other people; learn to love, accept and be proud of who you are
• Enjoy life while you still can and do the things that your heart truly desires
• It is beneficial to have a healthy mind and body in order to stay young
• “Age is just a number. It's how you live your life that counts.” - Diana Devi

Diana's Bio

Want to be a W.H.I.P.? A woman who is hot, intelligent and in her prime at every age? Diana has worked with thousands of woman over her 40 years in pharmacy. With this knowledge she has created a program to helps woman understand you can reverse aging.

"I need to listen to what's in here in my heart, and what I want, rather than what other people tell me, I can be open for feedback and information. But I need to really figure out what works for me." - Diana Devi

Contact Diana

Website: https://anagelesslife.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/diana-devi-a6111728/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anagelesslife/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anagelesslife/

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic 

• Different health issues and career change.
• Self-care, alternative medicines and the things that our body truly needs.
• How important it is to have a positive mentality and mindset.
• A journey to success and how to rebuild your life. 
• From a person with a very active lifestyle to a person who experiences different kinds of pain that not even ten doctors know what the real problem is.
• Biggest struggle: How to listen and how to trust your internal voice again.

Key Takeaways:

• Self-acceptance is a vital process for recovery. 
• Taking risks, taking care of yourself and believing in yourself will bring you to success.
• Compassion and respect are very important core values.
• Life is definitely worth living and fighting for.

Eva Vennari is the founder and CEO of The Elevate Institute, Creator of REVEAL Optimal Health Intensive, Science-led personalized nutrition that gives your body exactly what it needs to heal and rebuild so you can continue bringing your vision to the world.

"I would say listen to my internal voice a lot sooner,  that you're the only one who lives in your body. You're the only one who understands the experience, be the advocate that you need to be and speak up and get the help that you need." - Eva Vennari

Website: https://theelevateinstitute.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/reducemystresseva/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/eva.vennari

Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/c/NutritionalBalancing

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• A person's journey and purpose in life.
• The importance of healing, self-worth and self-acceptance.
• How to change someone's perspective and understanding your power as an individual.
• The struggles most people go through.
• How to overcome trauma such as suicidal ideation, sexual assault, doubts and fears.

Key Takeaways:

• Self-worth is one of the foundations of life.
• No matter what struggles or problems you have, you can definitely make it through.
• Difficult times will help you grow and it will make you the person that you are meant to be.
• Acceptance is the first step to healing.
• Don't be ashamed of your past, your mistakes and your choices because it will make you the best version of yourself.
• Life is all about perspective and you need to have that positive outlook in life.

Susan's Bio

“The Possibilities Curator” has invested the last 27 years as a Licensed Therapist/Coach, Author, and Speaker who guides her clients in dissolving their “but’s,” beliefs, limits, and fears by recognizing how their past negative conditioning creates their present and future and stops them from stepping into their infinite possibilities.

"So that they can see their own truth, step into their own power, really onto their own path of infinite possibilities and become that true visionary that they've always been." - Susan Dascenzi

Contact Susan:

Website: Susan's Website

Twitter: Susan Twitter

Linkedin: Susan's Linkedin

Instagram: Susan's Instagram

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Marian McSpadden Bio:

Marian McSpadden along with her husband, owns a multimillion-dollar business. She was born in the secluded culture of a horse-drawn buggy religious organization. When she was 34 years old a strong force within her took her beyond the world as she knew it. Immediately she was attracted to education. She took a GED and later graduated with a bachelor’s degree.

 "I had a new internal guidance system and that is such a wonderful thing." -Marian McSpadden

Contact Marian:

 Website

 Linkedin

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Tom Matzen

An international best-seller with two books, Tom has shared his message to more than 100,000 entrepreneurs on four continents and in hundreds of TV, Radio, print and podcast interviews. He now leads an emerging global enterprise with a mission to empower 10,000 Authority Entrepreneurs to build global movements and 7 & 8 figures businesses over the next five years.

    "Our lives purpose is finding your highest and best way to contribute and doing it." -Tom Matzen

Contact Tom:

Website: Tom Matzen website

Linkedin: Tom Matzen Linkedin

Facebook: Tom Matzen Facebook

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Kate LaBrosse

Kate LaBrosse is a CBD industry leader, natural products expert, motivational speaker, and best-selling author of This Is Me, Bipolar-Free: Heal Your Mental Illness and Create Your Authentic Life. Kate’s passion is to inspire and educate others who are struggling with mental illness so that they can take their power back and fully heal.

"True healing is truly possible, and it starts by really taking your power back, questioning the status quo, being open to making some changes in your life, and looking into your own individual why is. that something that I feel is so important that if people can get to their own root causes of why these symptoms of mental health are in their lives that's where the gold, that's where they can really find true healing." -Kate LaBrosse 

Contact Kate:

Website: http://www.katelabrosse.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kate.labrosse/

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribe to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. It would help if you didn’t miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Michelle Hoffmann, TheWidowGuide.com, is an international bestselling author, speaker and coach through grief, bringing light to widowhood. Michelle Hoffmann empowers parents who have lost a spouse figure out how to parent alone, and have dreams of their own…There is more to life than just being the one who didn’t die.

 "There is more to life than the one that didn't die"-Michelle Hoffmann

Contact Michelle:

Website: https://thewidowguide.com/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-hoffmann-brosler-aa86762/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewidowguide/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Pixellover32

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Marie-Elizabeth's Short Bio:

Marie-Elizabeth Mali is a Relationship Artist who helps creatives and entrepreneurs end the tug-of-war between their work and relationship so they can thrive in both. 

"How you do anything is how you do everything"

"Self-doubt gets louder right before we are about to up-level and transform. So when you notice self-doubt coming up its a celebration, that means I am about to challenge myself, I am actually growing here" - Marie-Elizabeth Mali

Contact Marie-Elizabeth:

Website: https://memali.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/memali108

Linkedin: https://linkedin.com/in/memali108

Facebook: https://facebook.com/memalicoach

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Kamala Murphey Bio

Kamala Murphey is a spiritual mentor and transformational healer. She works with women broken hearted by unfulfilled dreams to awaken to new possibilities. Kamala has Master’s degrees in Counseling and Theology, is an ordained minister and Sufi Master Teacher. She hosts the She Moves Mountains podcast.

"Give yourself permission to just shine."-Kamala Murphey 

Contact Kamala:

Website: http://kamalamurphey.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Kamala_Murphey

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kamalamurphey/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kamalamurphey/

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Liz Hargreaves was one of the first women to be promoted as Business Lending Manager in Australian Banking. She rode the career rollercoaster until 2010 when she found conscious leadership. Stepping onto this personal development path was the beginning of her lasting success. Today Liz will share her discoveries with you. 

In the 1980's Liz was one of the first women working in Australian Banking industry and had many challenges in that industry because it was dominated by men. There are still challenges in Banking because women are still making less money than men for doing the same job. The Banking industry is a lot better for women but there are still ways to go for equality for women. Now Liz's passion is to support women working in the banking industry by passing on the knowledge she learned so women can be successful in meeting the challenges in the workplace. If you want to understand workplace pressures, and how to manage your day contact Liz today.

 "You can take the opportunities in life, and not worry about other people." -Liz Hargreaves

Contact Liz: https://www.facebook.com/liz.hargreaves.5602

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-hargreaves-20179529/

Website: http://www.astera.global

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Laura's Bio

Laura Burton is a Sales and Marketing Professional. She helps entrepreneurs close more sales for their business with 1 on 1 coaching, online training, webinars, and classes in her business, 416 Sales. You can get her FREE eBook, 12 Secret Sales Hacks at, 416sales.com or buy it on Amazon.

"You always have to stay ahead of where you are at, and plan, and imagine where you are before you get there." -Laura Burton

Contact Laura:

Free ebook: http://416sales.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/416SalesUSA

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauraburton416sales/

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Lori's Bio:

Lori McNeil has successfully grown countless organizations organically, including her own International company that includes Legacy Builders, Media Secrets, and Driven Mastery; all brands that help Entrepreneurs build a true, long - lasting purpose. Lori has been featured on ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX as well as 500 other media outlets per year and written multiple International Best -Selling books. She is an offcial speaker for the Think & Grow Rich Legacy World Tour and co-host of the National TV Talk Show, “The Business Doctor.” Lori Also recently received an award for Business Coach Professional of the Year.

"Fear is a nasty success killer." -Lori McNeil

Contact Lori:

Website: http://www.lorimcneil.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorimcneil/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007167527251

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Kimberly's Bio

Kimberly is a successful marketing strategist, podcaster and conversion copywriter. Working with her clients, she noticed people struggled to create and understand the “big picture” of their marketing. She developed the Audience Conversion Method to help entrepreneurs draw in the right people with the right message at the right time.

"You are the only person like you in the world."  -Kimberly Weitkamp

Contact Kimberly:

Website: http://www.theaudienceconverter.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlyweitkamp

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Kim McIntyre

Kim McIntyre has been teaching and speaking for decades, guiding people to find their inner calm. She is a Stress Relief Strategist, Meditation Teacher, Yoga Teacher, Certified Laughter Leader and CEO of Joyful Being Transformations. Throughout her life she has challenged herself to overcome fear and expand her comfort zone.

"Ask yourself if what I am thinking is true." -Kim McIntyre

Contact Kim:

Website:https://joyfulbeing.com

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JoyfulBeingStressRelief/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCINK7uuki13MKZnIsThFcAQ

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

"I learned to argue for my own worth."  -Kate Phillips

Kate Phillips

During the Great Recession, Kate Phillips lost everything in a perfect storm of bad circumstances—including her own home. Today, Kate is a wealth coach who draws from lessons learned about gratitude, prosperity, and financial transformation. Her mission is to help others live fulfilling lives free from financial stress!

Contact Kate: 

Website: http://www.totalwealthcoaching.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/moneyhealer

Twitter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katephillips/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thekatephillips

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Ambila short bio:

Ambila guides women who are seeking to find a long tern partner. Her client's are  dating a lot of people in a hope they will find the right one but it’s frustrating that it’s just not happening. She mentors her client to stop the endless dating, find themselves and find their man!

"The most best way to find the ideal person is to first of all find yourself." -Ambila Nath

Contact Ambila

Website: https://www.ambilanath.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/AmbilaNath

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ambilanath/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ambilanath

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Donna's Bio

I AM an Intuitive Life/Soul Coach, Reiki Master, Psychic Medium, & Aura/Chakra Intuitive dedicated to balancing and raising consciousness. My journey encompasses blind childhood, polio, cancer, 15 surgeries, 3 NDE’s, relationship Armageddon, and finding true love, to know I AM. Love finds you in NOW. Be Love NOW.

"What you say is what you create." -Donna Fairhurst

Contact Donna:

Website: https://donnafairhurst.com/?fbclid=I

Linkedin: http://linkedin.com/in/donna-fairhurst-a96733a7

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SoulFullSolutionsInc/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

"The Halfway There Podcast is a long form interview show where I talk to real, everyday Christians like you about their journey in faith. This is the first of several productions that will strive to help you navigate life with God and it’s a great place to start." -Eric Nevins

Contact Eric:

Website: https://ericnevins.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/halfwaytherepodcast

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericnevins/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eric_nevins/

Halfway There Podcast: https://www.patreon.com/HalfwayThere

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrence/?originalSubdomain=ca

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

If you live within 50 miles of a nuclear reactor, you need to listen to this podcast with Libbe HaLevy, a Top Nuclear Awareness expert. We have heard of 3-mile Island. Well, Libbe was there the day it happened. It exposed her to nuclear radiation. She is now a powerful advocate for abolishing Nuclear weapons. Libbe will teach us about the dangers of nuclear radiation, and how we can lessen its impact.

Libbe HaLevy:

Libbe HaLevy is the Top Nuclear Awareness Authority, author of the best selling book, YES, I GLOW IN THE DARK!, TEDx speaker, and producer/host of Nuclear Hotseat, the world’s longest running weekly podcast/broadcast on nuclear issues. She was one mile from the nuclear accident at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania when it happened. A business and writing coach whose clients have included Julie Andrews, Libbe now speaks internationally on nuclear awareness issues, consults with individuals and corporations, and coaches activists.

"Did you know that  international campaign  to abolish  Nuclear weapons, which is based in Scandinavia, won the 2017 Nobel Peace Prize?"-Libbe HaLevy 

Contact Libbe:

Nuclear Hotseat Podcast hosted by https://apple.co/2PVICgk

Website: http://www.NuclearHotseat.com

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/libbe-halevy-m-a-9494629/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NuclearHotseat/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=nuclear+hotseat

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Shani Stilman

Shani, the founder of Lemon Tree Nutrition, is a certified Holistic Nutrition Consultant who specializes in middle-aged women suffering from fatigue, who want to get their vigour & vitality back without eating kale in each meal, exercising every single day or feeling deprived.  

“Every person is different, so what might work for one person may not work for another, so the first thing I do is ask questions.” - Shani Stilman

Contact Shani:

Website: https://lemontreenutrition.ca/

Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/shani-LemonTreeNutrition

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lemontreenutritionconsulting/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMZdU4P_yM_T-_B4Sp02bEg?view_as=subscriber

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Kim's Bio

Kim O’Neill is the inspirational host of the Every Day is a New Day Show; a 2x bestselling author; certified ICF and LOA Transformational Coach; Interview Confidence Coach; Reiki Master; and former Crime Analyst. She loves to empower people in embracing who they truly are.

"You can move through everything and anything." - Kim O'Neill 

Contact Kim:

Website: https://www.kimoneillcoaching.com/home

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimoneill1/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/everydayisanewdayshow/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KimONeillCoaching

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Scientifically validated Life Force Healer, Heart Centred Leader, Author, and Founder of SoulPath Inc. Inthirani was gifted through her affiliation with Guruji Mahendra Trivedi to participate in 3 science experiments. Inthirani’s abilities have been measured, validated, documented and published in Scientific Peer-Reviewed Journals. She graduated from CEO SPACE, Peak Potentials Training and is an Ambassador with the Women of Global Change.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

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Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

to thrive and become resilient during COVID-19. Tim will help you 

find ways to adapt to the new norm. He will encourage you to become

resilient during COVID-19 by reading these amazing books on his

website: https://www.resilience-books.com

Tim's Short Bio:

Tim Ward created the Resilience Series: practical advice to help you survive, adapt, cope, and respond to the COVID-19 coronavirus pandemic. Tim is publisher of Changemakers Books, dedicated to transformation, and has written 10 books, including The Master Communicator's Handbook.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

“It’s Leadership for life, that I’m all about.” -Gina Gardiner

“Recognizing that your team is your treasure!”-Gina Gardiner

Gina Gardiner

Gina Gardiner is a No1 International Bestselling Author, Motivational Speaker, Empowerment coach and Transformational Leadership Trainer with well over 30 years of experience helping people experience happiness, success and fulfilment. She’s the founder of the Thrive Together Tribe membership and personal and spiritual development programme and The Enlightened Leadership Programme.  

Contact Gina:

Website: https://genuinely-you.com https://enlightenedleadership.co

Twitter:https://twitter.com/Genuinely_You

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginagardinerassociates/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSUvrwWOKQb6SrfYeXRZyHg

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

"Failing is like a perception because it could be just learning...you always learn something from it."-Fabienne Raphaël 

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

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Dr. Rhoberta Shaler Short Bio

Dr. Rhoberta Shaler, Relationship Consultant, Podcaster, and Author, empowers the partners, exes, adult children, and co-workers of the relentlessly difficult, toxic people she calls Hijackals® to recognize emotional abuse, realize the effects, heal, and transform. She helps them see clearly, stop the crazy-making, and save their sanity.  

"Hijackals paint a public picture of perfection, and at home they create a private place of pain "-Dr. Rhoberta Shaler

Contact Dr. Rhoberta Shaler

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Nina Ashby Bio:

I mentor people committed to developing their Spirituality to live a more joyful, fulfilled life in alignment with their purpose and empower them to stay connected with their inner self. I use my perception and 40 years of professional experience and multiple skills to have understanding and be poised for personal success.  

"I am here to serve, so just put me where you need me." - Nina Ashby

Contact Nina:  

Website: https://www.ninaashby.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ninapsychic/

Youtube: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjWqsXA-ejiAhUQRBUIHUy6BcsQFjACegQIAhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fchannel%2FUCEv6c4Ho9wdIj4wAL-Swp3g&usg=AOvVaw0zxR4_k9uC3uRuJRhVQ1Pd

Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/nina-ashby-32095724

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

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"I'm in the world of talking with people about what wows them, and what comes up and whispers to them. I have learned that it's often times the unexpected that gets their attention. It's a good idea to be open to the unexpected and not feel I have to control everything." -Diane A. Curran

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Tamara Patzer

Tamara “Tami” Patzer has shared her publishing and marketing strategies for impact, influence, and income with business owners, medical professionals, subject matter experts, and local marketing consultants at Harvard, Microsoft, Coca-Cola and NASDAQ as well as SCORE, SBDC, Sea Grant and many chambers and local organizations. She is the creator of Women Innovators podcast and publishing program as well as the Thought Leaders show and the Daily Success® Institute. In addition to publishing and consulting directly with thought leaders and entrepreneurs in finance, health, and heart-centered businesses, Tami has trained thousands of local marketing consultants in social media and video marketing. She has helped hundreds of people become International Best-Selling Authors and is the creator the "Beyond the Best Seller" book creation and marketing formula. Tami is recognized for her creative outside the box thinking and action implementation plans for her clients. She specializes in helping entrepreneurs and professionals showcase their expertise as Subject Matter Experts by positioning them as educators and advocates for the success of their clients and prospects.

"If you have a big message and a big mission, ask yourself, what is stopping you?"- Tamara Patzer

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Dr. Vanta’s mission is to help people restore their health and vitality, using the power of nutrition and natural medicine

"Treat your health as the most important business of your life because it is. If you are not healthy, you can't do much. So take good care of yourself." -Dr. Brindusa Vanta

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

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Stephen Gardner is the best-selling author of Taming Wall Street. He's on a mission to help strengthen America one family at a time.

"I came with infinite worth, I have infinite worth, and I am going to continue to have infinite worth." -Stephen Gardner

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Jessica Smith Dos Santos:

Jessica Smith RN Coach has been an RN since 2005 and has found her higher calling in nursing outside to the traditional nursing box. She is impacting lives through holistic health coaching. Rather than reacting to disease and teaching people to manage medications, she is helping them change their lifestyle and manage their mindset. Her clients are losing weight and gaining life!

Connect with Jessica Smith Dos Santos:

Linkedin: https://bit.ly/2TYB8ga

Instagram: https://bit.ly/2FqJogO

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessica.InspireTLC

Facebook: https://bit.ly/2OiWNdw

Youtube: https://bit.ly/2Whm5vD

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Questions about this podcast:

1. 1. What are some of JJ's accomplishments?
   2.  What age did JJ start her own business?
   3. What is the name of JJ's podcast?
   4. What did JJ struggle with in high school?
   5. How did JJ rebel in grade 11?
   6. What is the difference between physical and emotional issues?

Key takeaways:

• You must love yourself.
• Lower back pain is repressed anger.
• Stress is negative emotion about something.
• You are always admiting a frequency that calls things into you.

JJ Flizanes

JJ Flizanes is an Empowerment Strategist and the host of several podcasts including People’s Choice Awards nominee Spirit, Purpose & Energy. She is the Director of Invisible Fitness, author of The Invisible Fitness Formula, named Best Personal Trainer in Los Angeles and featured in Shape, Fitness, and Women’s Health as well as NBC, CBS, Fox, the CW and KTLA

"Whether you believe it or not, you are always attracting. The law of attraction works whether you believe or not, and it's working twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week for your entire life. You are like a cell tower. You admit a frequency every day." - JJ Flizanes

Contact JJ Flizanes:

Website: http://invisiblefitness.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/jjflizanes

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jj-flizanes-empowerment-strategist-2a42b31/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jjflizanes/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

1. 1. What intuitive ability did Kim have as a child?
   2. Why did Kim take a spiritual class?
   3. What medical challenges did Kim have?
   4. Why did Kim shift her profession from Aerospace engineer to teacher?

Key takeaways:

• Everybody can benefit from improvement. Even the Dream Team has a coach. 
• It is essential to be you.
• No need to shame others, talk to people at their level.
• When doing presentations, know who your audience is and speak at their level.
• Box breathing helps reduce stress.
• It is important to write down the 5 Whys to decrease limiting belief.
• You are more powerful than you think

Kim's Bio

Kim has been a Spiritual Teacher & Intuitive Energy Healing Facilitator for over 15 years, and a frequent speaker at Metaphysical Conferences. She’s helped clients do things like get pregnant after 8 years of infertility; be pain-free after decades of chronic pain; & meet their life partner after years of searching.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Mindbody Chronic Pain Coach, Ken Malloy has gained the trust of clients from around the world with his highly-effective approach to eliminating stress, pain and other symptoms. After ending his own years of stress and pain, Ken now help others to become stress and symptom- free quickly and easily.

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or 

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Ken Malloy: Thank you.

Esmie Lawrence: I'm excited to have you on the show.

Ken Malloy: Glad to be here. Thank you.

Esmie Lawrence: Let's go back to your past, your journey. What happened that caused you pain?

Ken Malloy: Well, I had an onset of back pain that happened many, many years ago when I was lifting a box, helping to set up for a seminar, and that put me in bed for 10 days, and it was horrible, horrible pain. I was actually, struggled for an entire year where I was pretty much incapacitated. Tried many, many, many different things, and then found my way to mind-body medicine pioneer, Dr. John Sarno, who cured me with his program.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. Tell us about Dr. John Sarno.

Ken Malloy: Well, Dr. John Sarno has a revolutionary theory, diagnosis and treatment strategy for common persistent muscle pain. The basis of his theory is that the root cause of pain, persistent pain when there is no structural diagnosis is emotions, is seated in the unconscious, so he has a way of curing the pain by education and by learning to access these deeper feelings. I became his patient. I was a good patient, a good student, I followed his work, and in six weeks, I was pain-free. That so was such a powerful experience for me, that I went from being a video producer, a full-time production company owner to basically doing his work with him, producing a DVD of his work.

Ken Malloy: Then, he asked me to lecture to his patients and tutor his patients, and over the course of years, I transitioned into being a full-time mind-body coach, having been trained by him, so I got trained by the best, and he's passed away. It's been two years now, and I'm one of a number of people who are carrying on his work.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. What are some of his work? What are some of his research that you can tell us about regarding mind-body?

Ken Malloy: Well, you can take random samplings of people who have no back pain. It's found that 40 to 50% of them have disc abnormalities that are normally blamed for the pain, so people have back pain go to doctors, they're told it's a disc abnormality, but there are many people with this abnormalities who don't have pain, so this direct causal relationship between structural problems and pain doesn't match, so it leaves us to consider, "Well then, what else might be causing the pain?" What people have found is when they do this work when they access deep, unconscious feelings, when they're able to find and feel rage, and shame, and sadness that they might not normally look for, such as going through intense psychotherapy, the pain goes away.

Esmie Lawrence: If they go back and they deal with rage, shame, stuff like that, anxiety, then that will decrease the chronic pain?

Ken Malloy: Absolutely, when you understand his diagnosis. Dr. Sarno's work is central to the work I do as a mind-body coach, but it's not everything. There are other thought leaders I've studied with. There are other masters that I've sat at the feet of, so to speak, but he's probably the most important one.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Okay. If someone that is listening right now is suffering from chronic pain, such as headache, arthritis, lower back pain, what is the first thing they should do towards eliminating chronic pain?

Ken Malloy: Well, the first thing, Esmie is to get thoroughly checked out by a Western doctor to make sure the cause is not something serious. Arthritis, for example is not necessarily a symptom, it is a diagnosis, but in the case of any pain, you want to be checked out thoroughly by a Western doctor to rule out serious disease.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: After that, when one wants to consider that the cause of the pain is psychological, there's nothing to treat, and this usually happens sometimes after years of trying many things. If you've ever  and probably you have, know people who are dealing with pain, it's often months, sometimes years, and they've tried everything, and there's a lot of frustration, but to answer your question directly, probably the best bet is to get ahold of Dr. Sarno's book, Healing Back Pain, because that's like, that's really the bible.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: That's really the basis of it, to understand his theory.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: I mean, it's something I do as a coach. I teach people that, and that's one way to do it. If you want to learn it from a book, get his book.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: If you want to have someone teach you, call a mind-body coach.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. How are your solutions to chronic pain different from traditional Western medicine diagnosis and treatment?

Ken Malloy: Well, Western medicine, Western traditional, allopathic medicine considers that the cause of pain is structural. The way that Western medicine thinks is if it doesn't show up on a lab test, it doesn't exist.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: Not so with mind-body medicine. Traditional Western medicine tells us we need to find something structural that's at the root cause, not so with mind-body medicine. Mind-body medicine's telling us that there's emotions deep within us that are starting to come to the surface, and the pain ... Remember, this is all psychologically based.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay.

Ken Malloy: The pain is serving the purpose to distract the conscious mind away from these feelings that start to come to the surface, so the pain manifests in the service of distracting our conscious mind away from unconscious emotions.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay.

Ken Malloy: The woman who has back pain for years goes away the day she divorces her husband. It served as a distraction, or I had a client who was, graduated from law school, and the next morning, woke up and he couldn't walk. On an unconscious basis, he was furious. He actually didn't ever wanted to become an attorney, his father, his brothers, his uncle, but he wasn't facing what was true for him, but his unconscious mind caught up.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: In mind-body medicine, we're always looking for what's going on psychologically. That's the difference.

Esmie Lawrence: Let's go back to your case, what was causing your chronic pain, chronic back pain?

Ken Malloy: Well, initially, when the back pain went away, I didn't have to do the deeper work just by understanding that it was a ruse, that the pain was there as a distraction was enough. The second time that I got rid of chronic pain was neck pain, and that related to some conflicts from childhood. Dr. Sarno says there are three sources of these emotions. One is childhood, what he refers to as leftover emotions from childhood, which is an extremely polite way of saying trauma, likely from abuse, okay?

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Right.

Ken Malloy: About 90% of my clients have endured that. Then, there's life pressures, which we all deal with every day, and personality traits.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: I'll give you a quick example and I'll give you kind of a piece of the psychological orientation, okay?

Esmie Lawrence: Okay.

Ken Malloy: Let's say you're a perfectionist, okay? You want everything to be perfect. What's the problem? Things are never perfect. Things are never quite perfect, and if they are, they're just for a moment.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: How infuriating could that be? Another great example is in terms of personality traits, is somebody who was a people-pleaser, okay? Now, why would being a people-pleaser cause someone to feel unconscious rage? Well, what tends to happen with people who try to please everyone is they expect it in return, but that's not the way ...

Esmie Lawrence: That's right.

Ken Malloy: Most people are not that thoughtful, and so it's like the people-pleaser unconsciously ...

Esmie Lawrence: No, they're not.

Ken Malloy: Remember, we're looking at the dark side of the psyche, and it's not always pretty, but it's reality.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Ken Malloy: The people-pleaser will say, "I'm nice to everybody. How come they're not nice to me?", and so that's the source of this rage.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: Mind-body medicine is really about peeling the layers off of this psyche, seeing what's going on underneath, telling the truth, feeling those feelings, and the symptoms go away.

Esmie Lawrence: Right, so a people-pleaser, when they have all that rage because they're, others are not returning their kindness, they end up might have a pain in the neck.

Ken Malloy: Various, various types of symptoms. That's correct.

Esmie Lawrence: Or lower back pain, or any type of pain, chronic pain, and once they go back and dig deeper, maybe with your coaching, then they'll discover the reason why and that their chronic pain will not go away.

Ken Malloy: It's understanding that there are parts of us, I like to call it becoming or acknowledging not you.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: I would never be a person who would be jealous of that, or I would never be the person to be that, but you know what? We all are. We all have a dark side to our psyche, and it's not easy sometimes to face that, but Jung, the Swiss psychologist who's Freud's protege, referred to it as the shadow.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: We all have a shadow side, and we have to meet that part of our psyche with patience and kindness and love, and know that within us lives. Even though we don't feel it, that's the nature of the unconscious. Maybe some profound sadness, maybe some shame, maybe some rage, and learning to hold that.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, yes. Right, because we all have a dark side.

Ken Malloy: To live that.

Esmie Lawrence: We do, right?

Ken Malloy: Right. Right, and you know the saying goes, "What you don't own, owns you," so if you're not acknowledging the existence of this, in some way, it's going to be running you.

Esmie Lawrence: That's right. Right.

Ken Malloy: That actually takes us to one thing I want to not forget to mention, is pain in a way, if it helps us to learn and grow by going into deeper parts of ourselves actually can be a gift, because it forces the learning and the growing, and maybe that's what it's all about.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, definitely. I wrote a book that I actually, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power, and writing that book can really ... I have to go deep and kind of discover something, my pain, my shame, and when I brought that to the surface, I felt better, so going to the dark side, it made me a better person. We all have to face it, and if we face it, we can actually deal with it.

Ken Malloy: That's right. That's right.

Esmie Lawrence: Now, let's talk about stress. There are a lot of people who work in high stress jobs, so what are some of the physical and emotional symptoms of stress?

Ken Malloy: Well, stress can cause so many different symptoms. I think it's important to understand that when we are in a state of hyperarousal, when we're dealing with every, a demand, it's important to acknowledge that modern life is not always our friend.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: In like, say in the caveman era, stressful situations were short-lived. We had lots of time to recover.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: You might've been potential prey of a wild animal, and you ran, and you hid, and then you've had a chance to recover. Modern life ... I mean, imagine what it was like 1,000 years ago or 300 years ago. No electric light.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: No electricity. You were born, lived and died within 100 miles of, your whole life happened within 100 miles, and people got up with the sun and went to bed with the sun. Now, with all the electronic stigmas-

Esmie Lawrence: Gadgets.

Ken Malloy: Gadgets, we're under constant bombardment. You can work 24 hours a day now, and some people do work all hours.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: We're not giving our psychology or our physiology or our biology a chance to recover, and psychology, worrying or focusing too much, that drives the physiology, which keeps us in a state of hyperarousal, and that ultimately affects our biology, causing disorder and disease. Skin conditions, to answer your question, insomnia, anxiety, panic attacks, depression, all of this is from focusing too hard. There actually is a very ... There are very easy ways to reduce stress. When we understand that the problem with being constantly stressed out is not ...

Ken Malloy: I'll give you one very important, two maybe, frameworks that I use. First of all, the stress itself or being stressed out, being in a stressful situation that perpetuates, that's a problem. Like pain is a problem, but it's not the problem, it's a problem.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Ken Malloy: It may be a big problem, but the problem is not knowing what to do with it. It's not knowing how to process it. The challenge then becomes not so much what is the content of our experience. Like right now, you're hearing me. People that consume your work are listening to me and you talk [inaudible 00:16:33] this is just information, vibration, words, images that you're taking in.

Having had a successful acupuncture and teaching business since 1981, Johanna Alper now coaches healers, therapists, and heart-centered entrepreneurs to attract more clients and prosper. Her forthcoming book is- The 5 ElementsAdvantage Chinese Medicine Secrets for Holistic Business Success.

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Show notes: Johanna Apler: Thank you so much Esmie. It is such an honor and a pleasure to be speaking with you today from, for me, Boulder, Colorado. [crosstalk 00:00:09] We've been getting lots of snow lately. Esmie Lawrence: Oh, awesome. I live in Calgary, so there's a lot of snow too. Johanna Apler: Oh yeah. Esmie Lawrence: So Johanna tell me about your childhood. Johanna Apler: Well, in some ways I had a very privileged childhood. My parents were very loving, basically decent people. We grew up in the suburbs outside Boston. My family was Jewish, but not religious at all, but we learned very early about the Holocaust in World War II. I'm 73 I was born in 1946. Esmie Lawrence: You're are a young 73. Johanna Apler: Oh, thank you so much. I feel really good. I think it's Chinese medicine and meditation and dance because I feel really great. Esmie Lawrence: Awesome.

Johanna Apler: But anyway, I grew up in the suburbs. We were given a lot of opportunities, but at the same time we were taught very early about a lot of horrors in the world and not just what happened in the Holocaust in World War II, but that so many people have been unjustly treated. We learned very early about having a much broader, more humanistic view so we could connect to people of very different backgrounds and understand how many institutions have caused just tremendous suffering in the world. So we were taught very early to be compassionate, to learn compassionate, and to be very educated so we could help others.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that is so nice. So what did they teach you about the Holocaust? Johanna Apler: Well I remember being eight and learned about what had happened in Europe to, not just Jews, but progressive working people in Germany who wanted to have progressive values, gypsy people. We were taught very early about the gas chambers and things like that, which as a child was kind of the end of innocence for me. And in another way it opened me up to knowing that so many, we learned so many people have suffered terribly because of the Wars and injustices in the world. So that's something I've carried with me through childhood. And at the same time I've had a lot of joy. So I tried to balance helping others and being compassionate and being a teacher and a healer and now a coach with also really enjoying my life. So I don't burn out too much. Esmie Lawrence: That is awesome. Johanna Apler: Thank you. Esmie Lawrence: So what are some of the struggles you had as an adult? Johanna Apler: As an adult? Esmie Lawrence: Yes. Johanna Apler: Well, I'll just tell you the truth here. I started college, it was 1964 and you're very young, so I don't know if you know much about the 60s but that was a great upwelling of people and wanting to see a lot of changes in the world. I was very involved with antiwar movements and living in communes. Esmie Lawrence: Interesting.

Johanna Apler: I was  a wild one. Esmie Lawrence: Tell me about the commune. Tell me about that story. Johanna Apler: Well, in those days we didn't have the most conventional of ideas about how to live our lives. We were really questioning a lot of boundaries. And there was the war in Vietnam going on in the United States and I was part of radical movements to try and end the war. Living in communes there was a lot of fun. Esmie Lawrence: So you still have friends from back in the day? Johanna Apler: I do have friends. I've been a person who's been very blessed and very lucky to have many friends over the years, many of whom I'm still connected with 50, 60 years later. It's really wonderful and a lot of the ideas I had about how to change the world and how to make things more just and more fun and things like that. Well, I truthfully was very ungrounded. So after college and as the 70s came in and after really working outside army bases against the war in Vietnam and doing a lot of other, some outrageous things, which we don't have to go into here, but privately I could tell you sometime. Esmie Lawrence: Okay. Johanna Apler: I started to meditate in 1971 and that was phenomenal to help me settle down. Instead of just storming in the streets, protesting the war and other injustices, civil rights and other things, I started to work with my own mind and I started to grow up because of meditation.

Johanna Apler: I started to see that it's not like just bad people out there and we are all the good people with the great values. I started to grow up and saw that I needed to work on my own mind too and become a person of benefit. So it took a while. I started nursing school after college. I didn't like that. I knew I wanted to study acupuncture and I was ridiculed a lot because it was a very new thing. When I first became interested in studying it. It was about 72 or three I didn't go to acupuncture school then. I didn't go till 1980 but my family was, I got very ridiculed and because it was new. I was dismissed and I've always been a person truthfully before then and now, who looks for wonderful solutions that are "quote unquote" outside the box. And so that took a lot to keep going forward, to really choose what my heart wanted, which was to study Oriental medicine and be one of the pioneers to bring it through in the United States. I actually went to England to study, but... Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that's awesome. You come with a lot of experience, but I want to go back. I want our listeners to learn some your struggles and how you overcame some of those struggles in your life.

Johanna Apler: Well, I think the biggest struggle, some of the biggest struggles were to have... Truthfully, I believed in tolerance and peace and justice, but I wasn't always acting in the most upright way truthfully. I didn't tolerate people with other opinions. I thought they were lower than mine if they didn't have certain types of humanistic values. I didn't have enough basic respect for a lot of people who maybe didn't see things the same way I did but were being upright in their own ways. So though I received ridicule for being a pioneer, that changed a lot over the past decades because I actually started earning a very good living and was very respected and appreciated. Esmie Lawrence: Right. So then how did you learn to become more tolerant of others? Especially with your background with maybe, I don't know, did you have any relative in the Holocaust that suffered? Johanna Apler: Well, yes. My grandmother's family all perished in Europe. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Yeah, and so that's sad, and that's hate coming at your family. So when you come and you say you didn't have maybe tolerance for other people, so how did you overcome that? Johanna Apler: Truthfully the main thing was meditation. I started to see that I had a shadow too. Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Johanna Apler: Truthfully... I'm not Hitler. I wasn't some terrible general who were in Wars that hurt people or whatever. But I started to see that I have a shadow too, that I'm carrying a lot of light and I aspire to carry a lot of light, but I also have my own neurosis and my own shadow. Learning to become an adult finally. Move beyond the black and white adolescent thinking that I had. Esmie Lawrence: You know what, we all have shadows. I love that word. You said you have shadows and we all have challenges and in our lives. And then to find ways and you find meditation. So tell me about like how, do you meditate on a daily basis? Johanna Apler: I do meditate on a daily basis and when I was just beginning, and now it's like almost 49 years ago, 48 49 years ago, I meditated a lot. We didn't have internet, we didn't have cell phones. Of course there were TVs, but I really, I was suffering a lot in myself and suffering a lot because my mind was telling me things are supposed to be otherwise and yet I was suffering. So truthfully, I did a lot of solitary meditation retreats in cabins for one, two, four weeks at a time in meditation centers in Vermont and in Colorado. And I learned to really, really deeply make friends with myself. And that is, I feel what meditation and compassion meditation is about. We have to start with ourselves and then we can help ourselves and the overflow and help others with wisdom and compassion. Esmie Lawrence: Right. So on your website you talk about conventional fears and limiting beliefs. Now how did you overcome that?

Johanna Apler: Okay, so if you were looking on my website about fears and limiting beliefs, I believe you would probably looking in the area around money mindset where I was helping healers and other mission driven, heart inspired entrepreneurs to get over old beliefs, about old limiting beliefs about our own value, our own ability to earn money, especially as women and as healers and as people who are inspired to bring good things into the world. Very often we have a mentality of feeling like servants. Well we're here to serve so we don't have to maybe get so much money back. Johanna Apler: And what I have now understood much more is that when we lift ourselves up and receive a lot of value, not just give a lot, we actually inspire others to lift themselves up. In Chinese language money is a verb. It's actually not a noun I've been told. Although I don't speak Chinese, I do Chinese medicine, but I don't speak Chinese. But money is about flow. And if we're blocking flow to ourselves, because as women and as healers and many of us who are wanting to give so much, we block receiving it ourselves and that cuts off the energy. We need to receive and give, receive and give. It's like breathing. We need to breathe in, we need to breathe out.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Johanna Apler: Cutting that off, which I need to help coach people on that very often because there's this, I mean, maybe that's not so for you as me, but I have worked with many healers who are cutting off receiving their own money and it cuts our power as healers we have such important gifts to give to the world at this time. There's so many crises, not just ecological and racism and huge disparities of income. More so maybe in the United States than in Canada, but there's just gigantic disparities of income. United States is very a very rich country and we have like 40 million people living in really terrible poverty. Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that is really sad. Johanna Apler: It's really sad. In Canada, I think there may be more safety nets for it, Healthcare and education and other things. But in the United States, it's a widening gap, and it's tragic and it's leading people to have to hurt and struggle. There's tens of millions of children in poverty in this country. It's crazy. We are so wealthy. Esmie Lawrence: That is sad because America is a wealthy, powerful country. Johanna Apler: Of course. Esmie Lawrence: And to have so many children, especially living in poverty, something must be done about that. Johanna Apler: Absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: It's really sad to see it but what can each of us do to help that situation? Johanna Apler: Okay. That is a really wonderful question and an important question. And of course it depends on every single individual person to choose what are their best gifts and what best way that they can serve. And not everybody's going to want to be a healer or a doctor or whatever. And many people with just ordinary jobs, living ordinary lives or working in corporations or doing whatever can still make terrific contributions to help the people around them both in their heart and spirit. It starts with ourselves. We have to uplift ourselves. Esmie Lawrence: [crosstalk 00:14:55] You know, someone's once say, you have to make sure that you fill your cup first before you can give. Johanna Apler: Right and that's incredibly important. I've known, as I said, I work with many healers and I've known many who kind of put down money because they've seen money being unjustly used for a lot of unkind things. And so they kind of throw the baby out with the bath water, but we need to receive money and then our charity can be much more generous and we need to earn money and stand in our power. I'm delighted to see many of the people that I've worked with be very successful in being able to do that. So then their cups are filled more and then they can give in ways that they're inspired to do

Esmie Lawrence: So the people that you work with them now you've taught them how to respect money, make money your friend. Johanna Apler: Yeah. Esmie Lawrence: So they can come to you, right? Johanna Apler: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: You don't, you don't want money running away from you. Johanna Apler: Exactly. We need to be magnetizing, attracting money. Especially healers, because most healers go in, therapists and spirit inspired people, go into their work to make a contribution to make impact. But we also, the money, we will make more impact if we make more money. It's one of the way, it's not the only way to make impact and help the world. But I feel healers, we have such an important play today. And entrepreneurial sisters, yes. Esmie Lawrence: Yes definitely. Johanna Apler: It's a time where women can really help. It was just starting when I was young. It's really growing now in women in business. We have such a great role to play because there's so much goodness that can come out of this is my feeling. Esmie Lawrence: Oh definitely. Especially when we work together. Johanna Apler: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: We can go further ahead. Johanna Apler: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: So I want to ask you, so what is classical acupuncture like? What is that?

Johanna Apler: Well, classical acupuncture is a very ancient system. It's somewhere between three and 5,000 years old that's been passed down over the ages, first in China and then to other areas of the far East. And then to Europe and the United States and it's a kind of energetic medicine that sees the underlying energy pathways, the needing to be balanced before our anatomy and physiology and spirits and hearts and minds come into being. There's an energetic template that was discovered by great healers thousands of years ago and passed down through the Orient and now to here. When that energetic template or blueprint is balanced, we can heal much more easily like nature intended. Like for instance, you know children if they get a little cut, you look a couple of days later and it's practically all healed up. But as adults we don't heal so fast. So ancient classical acupuncture is about balancing all the energetic pathways connected to our organs so that we can heal very quickly and nature and come through us and heal us because acupuncturist don't heal. Johanna Apler: Nature heals us, but acupuncture helps to open the pathways so the healing energies can flow. Esmie Lawrence: I see. Johanna Apler: I'm sure it's happening a lot in Canada. It's happening more and more in this country, and even veterans are now getting benefits to be able to receive acupuncture because it's proven to be so helpful. It's gonna to be coming into our Medicare system within a year or two. It's of tremendous benefit against the horrible opioid epidemic that's happening in this country. I don't know if it is in Canada, but it's just horrific. Esmie Lawrence: It's happening everywhere. Johanna Apler: Yeah. Esmie Lawrence: Which is really sad. Johanna Apler: Yeah, and I truly credit the fact that being 73 not having pain, not needing medications, being able to dance in dance classes with people a third my age. I'm sure it's because of acupuncture.

Esmie Lawrence: That is awesome. Johanna Apler: It's true. Meditation, acupuncture, dancing and also living my purpose. These really help. Johanna Apler: So Chinese medicine is very amazing and in the close to 40 years that I've been doing it, practicing it and teaching it, I'm surprised the degree that it has started to come into our culture. I didn't think it would actually make the inroads it has; it would still be a kind of tiny hidden thing, but it's been my life's passion and work. But now I coach too, which I love. I do both. Esmie Lawrence: So what is the success principles of Chinese medicine, but what exactly is that? Johanna Apler: Okay, so the ancient Chinese system works with nature. In nature there's the fire element which has to do with our hearts The earth element which has to do with the great mother, who serves us all, has to do with nourishment and blood sugar. The metal element to do with lungs receiving energy from the heavens. The water element is our kidneys. The wood element's connected to liver. Those are the medicines for our health. How to get all the organs to be balanced and strong and the energy is flowing. Johanna Apler: But also what I discovered as I started to coach healers and students from the acupuncture school where I had taught, because they graduated and I saw they weren't getting their practices going very well. So I started to teach to coach and learn coaching. I found that our businesses are also living systems that have all the energies of nature, just like our bodies and minds and spirits do. For instance, the system which I now work with the fire is our heart's brand. How we share our brand and become visible in the marketplace because people don't choose acupuncture or therapy or whatever. They choose an acupuncturist or a therapist or a coach, a person, and we need to be visible with our own spirit, our own passion, our own heart. Johanna Apler: So that's the fire element. The earth element in a business is just like the great mothers serves everyone here, the earth element is about our niche, how we serve, who our ideal clients, what offerings and services we provide. The metal element has to do with prosperous money flow and letting go of old blocks and old limiting beliefs that, Oh, if I just stay safe and kind of hidden a little I'll be okay. No, standing in our power, inviting money, being a powerful leader, and not shying away from also receiving, just like our lungs receive from the heavens. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Johanna Apler: I could keep going. But is this like too much of a acupuncture school so fast? Esmie Lawrence: Well, let's go back to you with your students. How do you teach them to step into their power?

Johanna Apler: Well, I teach it in pieces, I mean in, in steps. First of all, the students that I taught at the acupuncture school, they had to go through school for years. But upon graduating as excellent healers, I wasn't seeing them getting their businesses going very well to say the least. They're very upset and frustrated. So just like anything, you can get from a workshop or a book, a lot of insights quickly. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Johanna Apler: But that's not the same as transformation. And today there's tremendous amounts of information out there. So I work with people over time because we need to do the outer steps to learn how to have a strong brand and a powerful niche and other things. We do the outer steps to attract and enroll clients and we do the inner work to dissolve our own blocks. Johanna Apler: That isn't just taught in that quick seminar, although I do seminars for people to help and many people do well with a workshop or seminar and then take the work and go out and implement it on their own. Many people need a coach or a teacher, a mentor, and in order to really develop well and totally transform.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Johanna Apler: So it's a process. Esmie Lawrence: It is a process. It take some time to work with you and then, and for them to build their business. Johanna Apler: Yes. Yes. Esmie Lawrence: Okay. So I love the fact that you said you're 73 years old and you look so young. How do you maintain vitality at that age? What do you do? Johanna Apler: Okay, so I mentioned I meditate and that's a way to be quiet and still because we have such a busy, busy culture and we're always on our cell phones and screens. Esmie Lawrence: Oh yes. Johanna Apler: So I take time for deep stillness and contemplation every day pretty much. Esmie Lawrence: Okay. And what else do you do? Johanna Apler: I dance. I live in beautiful Boulder, Colorado. We have foothills and mountains right on the edge of the city so I can hike in good weather. I have very good friends. I dance at dance classes, yoga, and I'm living my purpose. And that is something incredible. And, also as I mentioned, classical acupuncture, which works with helping us be well before symptoms and diseases find us. It's a very different paradigm of medicine. You don't just go once you feel sick, you do it preventatively to stay well. So all those things combined together have helped me really stay vital honestly. Esmie Lawrence: The thing is you haven't retired. Johanna Apler: Well, no and I thought I would just continue with acupuncture and teaching and I didn't know this whole new area of coaching would come in, but in my late sixties it kind of called me. Esmie Lawrence: That's nice. So is that your passion? Coaching now? Johanna Apler: Well, I also love to work with individuals with healing. I think I'll always do that, but it's down to maybe 12, 15 hours a week. But coaching is really a way that I am very called now. I didn't have a lot of clarity around how to use the internet. I was used to people coming in my office and helping them here. So now I'm learning to leverage because I feel like I have a lot to teach at this age. Esmie Lawrence: Yes you do. Johanna Apler: We don't get to live that long to be able to. And I didn't know this five element system for coaching and for businesses would find me exactly. I didn't have it all thought out. I'm kind of learning it as I go and sharing it. So I'm very inspired to be a wise old lady 

Michael Woodward

Michael Woodward is the host of the jumbleThink Podcast where they focus on the stories of ideas. The passion of jumbleThink is to help people find their big ideas and dreams. Prior to jumbleThink, Michael owned a leading web development company where he and his team built over 450 websites.

I love sitting down with people and helping them really take a look and say, "Are you doing what you're created to do?" Now that could be a teacher, that could be an engineer for Boeing, that could be an employee. And a lot of people say, "Oh, if you're doing that, you're going to be out on your own." And that's not true. It's finding that sweet spot where you step into life every day and on the hard days you still feel like I am doing what I love to do and I'm so privileged to do what I get to do. And on the great days, you're in this place of flow where everything's just firing and you just feel like you're operating 100%. - Michael Woodward    

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Show notes: Esmie: Michael, welcome to Sprinting To Success podcast. How are you doing? Michael Woodward: I'm doing so great. I'm excited to chat with Esmie and have a lot of fun along through the episode. Esmie: Oh, I am so excited too for you to be here and thank you so much for agreeing to do this. So I want to just know a little bit more about you. Tell me about how you were as a child. Michael Woodward: Yeah, childhood was interesting for me. I came from a really great family, the parents that were incredible, but around that kindergarten and first grade I ran into some issues. Some struggles along the way. And the biggest one was that the school I went to was saying, "Oh, he's not paying attention in school." All of this stuff. And they're like, "Let's put him on Redlands and do all the stuff that they're doing to so many kids today.

Michael Woodward: And my doctor fought it, my parents fought it, and they really sat down and said, "Let's do a psychological evaluation and see what's going on here." What they found is that I just didn't learn well the way that they were teaching me. So it was a journey of overcoming that obstacle as a child, the normal, I grew up in a suburban kind of setting, so I had a lot... I went to a great school, I had a great circle of friends, but that was one of those weird things that early on it's impacted my life because I had to figure out how do I learn in a way that works for me? How do I work with a system that isn't set up to allow me to flourish in the ways that I understand information? Michael Woodward: And how can I set myself up for success? And the school was great, I really works through that and it gave me good systems to help me through that and set me up for success. So that's one of the earliest struggles in life that I actually remember. Esmie: So what are those systems that helped you back then to learn?

Michael Woodward: I think the first thing is that I don't test well. I can have all that information and know it and know how to answer the questions. But there's like this anxiety around sitting down sometimes and actually doing the test. Sometimes I'll test perfectly fine, sometimes I won't. And one of the systems I had to learn was to go back and say, "Hey look, can I retake this again?" Not like a day later, but I know that I did poorly, I just need to retake it again. Sit right back down and do perfectly fine or sit down with a teacher and instead of writing down all the answers, just verbally answer through the questions. And so they helped facilitate a safe space for me to come in and say, "Okay, I don't test well in this area. What's a way that we can work where I know the information, it's obvious that I know the information, how can we do it so that I can test successfully?" So that's one area. Michael Woodward: Another area was that I love learning by interaction. One of my favorite classes in high school was a class that was supposedly beneath my level of education. And it was a field biology classes. And instead of doing academic learning in a classroom, the entire class was doing field work. So we'd go out and look at different ecosystems. We'd go out and run experiments, we'd do observation, we would do experiments in the class. And it wasn't supposedly an advanced class, but it was a... And I did fine in the advanced version of it, but I found it so much more of a way for me to tangently engage with it because I was doing the work, I wasn't just trying to consume this data, I was actually experiencing it.

Michael Woodward: And so that was another pivot for me in the learning structures to say how can I move from kind of reading it or just digesting it and experiencing it? Because once I experience it, I understand it. Once I understand it, I can really make sure that I'm versed in the information I need to learn. And so when I approach situations today, I use that same kind of situation to say, "Okay, I'm not understanding this. What can I do to move from trying to learn this from reading it in a book to actually make it an experience?" And how can I engage with it? So getting my hands dirty and solving the problems, if you will. Esmie: Right. You know Michael one of the great things that you learned when you were little is that you know how you learn. A lot of people don't know how they learn. And so it's really good that it was pointed out to you and you're able to adapt that and move on and learn what you need to learn. So that's one of the good things. So if you go back to high school, what were some of the struggles that you had in high school? Michael Woodward: Yeah, there was a couple of struggles. I actually had a really great school experience at the high school level. Incredible. I went to a phenomenal school that expected you to succeed and then would resource you to succeed. So from an academic standpoint it was great. I can't really complain. I was involved in the music programs and had great music programs. So it was a lot of fun. I would say that the challenge came from a place of saying what do I believe and what is significant to me. It's easy to get stuck in the doing especially in high school because there's all kinds of things you can do, whether it's sports, whether it's music, whether it's extracurricular activities.

Michael Woodward: And there were some decisions I was making that weren't necessarily bad ones. But I came to a point and I said the people I'm hanging out with here aren't bad people, but they're not going to help me really be the best I can be. So getting around the right people who challenged me and pushed me to not accept the status quo but go deeper and expect me to... Expect myself to do better or than what I was kind of skating by on. And so pushing me to do better than what I've done. And I think that's the biggest thing in high school for me was making those decisions. There were some things I gave up, like there was one year of marching band, which I loved marching band, but I just felt like I needed to focus in a different area. Michael Woodward: And so I didn't do my senior year of marching band. I still played in the jazz bands, I still played in the orchestra, I still played in the symphonic winds bands and all of that kind of stuff. But I stepped back and I said, "I'm going to re-adjust my focus that senior year to do something a little bit different. And that really helped me make some decisions for the next couple of years. I think we get so busy that we're responding often to situations instead of slowing down and making actual decisions and being proactive versus being responsive to the dilemmas, the obstacles we're facing. And so my senior year slowing down and saying, "You know what, I could push as hard as I've been doing. I could keep doing what I've always done. I moved from there and just re-focused my area of focus and it allowed me to make better decisions for the future. Esmie: Right. So what was it then in high school that made you want to become your best self? Like what was it?

Michael Woodward: I think it was a combination of things. One, when it comes to the music aspect, I was super competitive. I wanted to be the best at what I could do against everyone else. And sometimes you're not competing against other people but you're competing against yourself. So like one year I tried out for regional bands, which is like statewide kind of music program and I did okay, but I was striving not against other people in that case, but was striving to say I can do better and I can control what I can do to achieve more. And so it pushed me to become a better version of myself in that journey of discovery. And so that's one area that was challenging me to become better. Michael Woodward: Another area was just by that shift of the people I was hanging out with. There were a lot of people I was hanging out with that were perfectly fine people, but when you get around driven people, it forces you to be driven to. And sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad, but getting around the right tribe or right community that you can actually connect with and say, "These are people that understand what I'm going through, they're going to challenge me, I'm going to challenge them because I understand them." And re-evaluating the kind of community that I wanted to be around, the kind of people in school and outside of school.

Michael Woodward: And that was super awesome. It was a lot of fun. It sounds like I was just like focus, focus, focus, do, do, do. But we had a lot of fun too, the people I was hanging out with and it was that balance of finding the right pace for all of us. And so the people around me. And then the school that I went to like I mentioned before, they expected you to succeed. I mean, every year they announced how many students were going on to what kind of college and what your peers were, your friends, you always knew who was going to what school. And it wasn't like you had to measure up to a certain measuring stick. All they asked is that you do the best that you could do and you find the thing that's right for you. Michael Woodward: So they wanted you to succeed. And I remember my freshman year of high school, there was this class that every student was required to take. It was like months and months. I don't remember if it was half a year or a full year, but the class literally went through and said, "What are you good at? What are you passionate about? And how do you get there?" Esmie: Right. Michael Woodward: And so that whole philosophy of like, I want to know where I want to end up,  which is an ancient Hebrew word, which means the end result of our actions. And when you think of the end, then you can start building a roadmap to get you there. If I go, "Hey, I want to go somewhere." Well, it's going to be hard to actually get there if I don't know where that somewhere is. But if I go, "I want to get to Houston, Texas," now I can say, "Well, how do I get there? I can take a bus, I can take a car, I could take a train." And all right, and you can go through a process and it's the same with expecting a certain result or expectation of success, whatever that measure of success is for each individual, you can only get there if you know where you want to go. Michael Woodward: Now, that doesn't mean you have to be hard-nosed and say, "If I don't achieve this goal, I'm a failure." You think of all those people... You are an Olympian, right? Esmie: Right.

Michael Woodward: And not everyone's going to make the Olympics. Esmie: So true. Michael Woodward: And that may be your goal. That may be your dream. And you can work hard. But if you don't have a roadmap, you're definitely not going to get there. But if you have a roadmap, you can do your best and hope that you can reach the goal, the dream, the position you want to achieve. And so from early on, first year, one of the first classes we took, that was the expectation. We expect you to succeed and we want to resource you so you know what success looks like for you. And then we're going to hold you accountable to that. And we're going to put... If you need extra help, we've got special teachers here to help you if you need that. If you aren't getting what you need from a specific class, maybe you can move to a different class. And so they worked with you and they had career counselors, they had guidance counselors that wanted to be engaged in your life and really challenge you. And I was very fortunate to be in a school that was like that. Esmie: Right. I really think it's important that you're going into an environment that expects you to win. Michael Woodward: Right. Esmie: Because you'll rise up to meet the expectations of the school or whatever environment you're in. They say you're the sum total of the five people that you hang out with. So you hang out with good people and people who are driven and want to succeed then like you just, oh, it's like a click. And it becomes a pack, and then you rise together and you succeed together. And to have a school that is expecting you to win, I mean you can't fail. Michael Woodward: Yeah. Well, and I want to step back to earlier in the conversation, we're talking about learning how we learn and how... Because of my struggle with the learning disability that I specifically had early on, I had to address that issue so that I could succeed at whatever level I could reach. For me the lesson that I would hope that others would get from that is that you are in systems in life, whether it's business, whether it's school, whether it's the community or you around. And there are certain social norms because of the way we do things, we do it this way. So it's going to be done that way. And if you don't learn that way, it sets you up for failure. What you really have to do is say, "I'm going to be an advocate for myself." And because I was so young, I couldn't be an advocate for myself, my doctor, the psychologist, my parents had to be my advocate.

Michael Woodward: And I think so many times people give up because they either aren't in a place to advocate for themselves or they don't know how to do it. And if you're not able to comprehend something because of the way it's being taught, that's not on you, that's on the system that's conditioning you towards you've got to sit in a classroom and do this. There are other solutions. There's homeschooling that has so many different philosophies. There's unlearning, which is like self-guided learning through the process of what you're passionate about. There's situations where you can get in and be enrolled with a college and learn through an engineering program where they're actually doing hands on. There are different ways to augment the school system or your business system so that you can achieve your fullness, but you have to be an advocate for yourself to get to a place because the system's not typically going to do it for you. Michael Woodward: I was very fortunate to have advocates for me who could fight for me when I didn't know how to do that. I mean, I was what, six. And so- Esmie: Wow, yes. Michael Woodward: You got to be your own advocate, and if he can't do that, you've got to get around people who can advocate for you and you've got to make the system work for you so that you can fulfill the dreams, the ideas, the destiny inside of yourself. Esmie: Right, the potential. Michael Woodward: Yes, exactly. Esmie: So fast forward as an adult, what are some of the challenges, say, maybe in your 20s, 30s, what were some of the challenges because life is a journey and we all have challenges, but how do we overcome those challenges? That's the key. Michael Woodward: Yeah. Yeah. I have crazy stories. I remember working at a church and I loved working in the church. I worked there for eight years and we worked with the worst of the worst, addicts that were spending their money on drugs instead of on their kids. We were working with youth that had no parents. I was a youth pastor and having youth in my youth group that it was like, "Hey, I'm going home to so-and-so's house or so-and-so's house because their parents weren't there." Just crazy, crazy stories. Recession hit and a lot of the funding came from construction. That's how they got their money to fund the church to help these programs that served really broken community in Northern California. They came to us and said, "We love all of you." I was one of the executive pastors. I was over youth and over music ministry and over conferences and some other things. Michael Woodward: "We just don't know how we're going to be able to pay you. We love you." So the three executive pastors, we got together and said, we're just going to volunteer. We're just going to keep doing this, but for me I had obligations like a car payment and things like that. So I had a friend who said, "Come work for me." And I wish I could say, "Hey, It was real easy." He didn't really have a job for me and he was closing down the business basically over the next year. And so I was coming to help close that out. They were shifting some things they did more into web and myself and another guy ended up buying out the company. What most people don't realize is that yeah, that led to a lot of really good success. We did web development for fortune 100 companies.

Michael Woodward: We've made a lot of money. But there was about a year where I was sleeping on the floor and above an organization, a nonprofit, they do ministry. It's kind of like a church, but it wasn't exactly a church. It's a faith-based ministry reaching out to the community. And I volunteered there and they said, "Hey, pay us $150 we'll give you a room." And I slept in a sleeping bag on the floor while I did that first year of getting the business up and going. Esmie: So then how do you stay positive? How do you focus on your goals and you're having a big life when you're sleeping on the floor? Michael Woodward: Yeah, there's a couple things. One, you have to be around the right people. It comes back to so much. I think there's three key areas, identity, understanding who you are and your situations don't impact your identity. Your identity defines how you overcome your situations. I think a lot of people, they forget who they are when things are horrible and in that their world falls apart and that was an easier situation because I didn't have any kids at that time. And I wasn't married so it wasn't like... I'm in my late twenties, so it wasn't a big deal. And so just doing the time, putting in the work, building out customers, getting local customers, building out their websites, getting more customers and just building that and continuing to build that. Michael Woodward: And it was a very fun season. But I stayed positive because one, I remembered where I was going and that where I am today wasn't going to be the end of the story. Two, I was around a lot of really cool people who were able to help give me perspective when I couldn't see the perspective for myself. And you got to be around the right people. And then the third thing is that I had a vision and a dream that allowed me to know where I was going and that where I was wasn't the end of that story. So identity is the first part. That vision is the sustaining part and the people around you are really helping sustain that. Michael Woodward: And I wish I could say that that was the last time I struggled. And we built an agency where we had 12 full-time people working for us, building out websites. There were weeks where we were invoicing, 40 or 60 thousand dollars in client work. Esmie: Wow. Michael Woodward: Yeah. And so we made a lot of money. And I wish I could say I made a lot of money. We had a big payroll and other things and we did fine. I mean we had a lot of the things that people would want, like season passes to Disney and all that. So we were doing well but we could have done better if I made other decisions. And then over the course of time, you get comfortable, you get a stagnant and then you see a dip in the business and then you have to reevaluate and regrow and we went through a really hard situation where we lost a really big client and that wasn't a big deal. We still had other client work and other things coming in. But then we had a client that didn't pay us in the neighborhood of 65, 70 thousand dollars.

Esmie: Wow. That amazing. So what do you do when you have somebody don't pay you? That's a huge amount of money, and somebody to... How does that attack your self esteem, the business? How does it work? Michael Woodward: Yeah, well, I think the first thing that I learned from that is that I didn't know the full story. And sometimes we look at a person, we judge them, why isn't this company paying us? They owe us this money. They don't dispute that they owe us the money. Why aren't they paying us? How bad are they? They're horrible people, whatever. And we start judging them and we start judging them through our situation. And I remember I just felt so strongly, I'm a person of faith and I just felt like in my prayer time that God was saying, "Forgive the debt." So I went to them and I said, "We're just going to forgive the debt. We're going to finish this project and we're going to keep our relationship with you and keep working with you." Michael Woodward: Come to find out about a year later that the CEO, the main partner of the company had committed suicide. The reason that they didn't pay us was because when that happens, because of how they're structured, all their assets were frozen. They didn't have liquidity and what they were doing and that they were just... Their entire team and everything was trying to survive for several months off of what they had in the reserves on hand. It's a big company. They were the sixth or seventh largest landowner in agriculture in California. And so their situation impacted a horrible situation for us. We downsized our team significantly. I went back to coding, which I hadn't done for a while because I was doing client relations and now with people and just doing, the customer relation side of thing and running teams. Michael Woodward: We re-evaluated, we got small again, we got nimble and we've just continued to work hard. I wish we could say... That was about three years ago. I wish we could say we're 100% over it. We're getting there. We're really close to being like... We're on the other side of this, but it's been a struggle for three years. It's been hard and there've been really good times and you've got to keep perspective on what really matters.

Esmie: You got to keep that vision. You got to keep that vision in front of you and saying, "This is where we're going to be. We're not there yet, but we're heading in that direction." But I am impressed that actually, you forgave the debt. That's a lot of money, and God putting on your heart to... Spoke to you now, how did you know really how to forgive the debt? When God said that to your heart, initially, your first reaction was what when he said forgive the debt? Michael Woodward: Actually I think peace because at that situation, I was in a place of despair. How am I going to make payroll? How am I going to pay these taxes for payroll? How am I going to pay the rent on this big building that we had just set up. All of this kind of stuff. And I was so worried about everything that I was obliged to take care of. My obligations. I was so worried about what my team was going to think when I sat them down and told some of them, we're just going to have to let you go, not because we don't want you here, but because we can't survive if you're here. And it has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with this situation. Michael Woodward: And when we got to the point when my wife and I were talking and said, "Let's forgive this debt." And just praying and feeling like that was what God was leading to us to do, it brought us to a place of peace. And it was like those worries, those kinds of things, like I get it, we owed money to other people. They owed money to us. And it was easy to hate them because of the situation they put us in. But what's even better is being in a place to say... And it's something we've said since we started the business, that if I can't love my client, then I shouldn't work for them. Esmie: Bingo. I love that. If I can't love my clients, ladies and gentlemen, if you're listening to this, I mean that is awesome. And I mean it shows compassion, empathy. If you can't love your clients then... Oh, say that again Michael.

Michael Woodward: Yeah, if you don't love your clients, you shouldn't be working with them. Esmie: That's right. Michael Woodward: I just had a guy reach out to us to hire me for a new project for him. And I was making so many different concessions, I can use a good word there. Consensus. I was trying to make the project work. And I was getting to a place where I was like, "We should really be charging this. I'm trying to make it work them." And I was just like, "This isn't going to work, I'm going to be bitter at this person." And it's better for me to come back and say, "Here are the terms. This is what I need to make this project work, not because I'm not trying to help you, but because it's what's fair to both you and me. And if I get this for the project, then I can walk in and not have a heart of bitterness towards this. Now, if you're not cool with paying that amount, that's fine too. I'd rather stay friends and be able to serve you and say, you know what, I want what's best for you." Michael Woodward: My pastor who did our marriage counseling before we got married, premarital counseling, he said, "If you have people who are saying, I love you more than I love myself, if I'm putting your needs in front of my needs, and if the other person's doing the same thing, everyone wins." Esmie: It's a win-win. Michael Woodward: Yeah. And I think so often we try to make a win-win about manipulating the other person to get what we want. And sometimes doing the right thing really hurts yourself, but in the end it actually frees you through that situation. And forgiving that debt, it's a great example of it freed me not to be bitter towards them. And I could love them again because I wasn't viewing them through what they owed me, I was viewing it from what can I do to serve them. Esmie: Right.

Michael Woodward: And it was that change of perspective that allowed me to get the project to the other side for them. Michael Woodward: Wow. And that's a great way to think. You do it for your clients, you help others. And it's funny because when you help others, all of a sudden you help yourself because as you said you were at peace. Esmie: Yeah. Michael Woodward: I love that. Esmie: And they're still clients. Michael Woodward: Oh, all the better. And it's been four or five years since that happened. And they're clients. Esmie: That's so nice. Because I can imagine if you'd just got upset with them and said, "I don't want to work with you anymore." You would have lost, right? It would have been a loss for them and a loss for you. Michael Woodward: Yeah. And again, it took me another year, a year and a half till I knew the full story of what had happened. I was judging them through a skewed view, through my bitterness, through my frustration, through my anger. And once I knew the situation and once I had forgiven them, I could view them in compassion. And hope and love and wanting to do the right thing. I recently had a guest on our show and he talks about generosity. And asked this question, I actually thought his answer was horrible. And I won't knock who it is or anything like that, but there's a scripture that says, "Faith, hope and love and the greatest of these is love." Michael Woodward: And there's another translation that says, "Faith, hope and charity, and the greatest one being charity." And there is such a big difference between being charitable and being loving. Charity is saying, I'm doing this out of pity, I'm doing this out of wanting to put goodness back on me. Love is saying, I'm laying myself down to serve you. Esmie: Right. Michael Woodward: I am willing to carry your burden through this. And it's a different perspective and it changes how you view gratitude and thankfulness and through hardship. If you can get to this place of love, hardship becomes much easier because your heart is conditioned both to give and to receive. And I think of people now, and I say they really owe me nothing. We went through a situation where a whole bunch of people came to help us with something we're working through and they didn't have to do that. They didn't owe us a thing, and yet they did it. And it helped us through a season that was really rough financially and through some other things that were going on. Michael Woodward: I think many of us in our culture in America, we feel like people owe us stuff. And the problem is that if you expect people to owe you something when they don't deliver, you hate them. Esmie: That's right. You get really upset because I mean... In our culture we need more love. Because when you give with generosity and you give with your heart and expecting nothing, and eventually it will come back to you. Michael Woodward: Yeah.

Esmie: Okay. Not expecting it because it comes back in different ways. Michael Woodward: Yeah. Yeah. Esmie: Right. Michael Woodward: So true. Esmie: So yeah. So you get, it's like, "Oh, all of a sudden this person did something wonderful for me." You're not knowing that you did something maybe great for their grandmother or their auntie or their uncle, or... You never know, but when you give love, it always comes back your direction one way or the other. So Michael, what's your passion? What are you passionate about? Michael Woodward: I have this podcast and I love doing my podcast. It's all about ideas and innovation and about story. I love doing it, but the reason I love doing it is because when I talk to people, whether they are faith people, whether there are people that are atheists, a common thread is that they all say something similar when we're talking about the dreams and ideas they have. When they're in this place of flow, when they're like operating at their fullness, they say something to the effect of like, "I feel like I'm doing what I'm created to do." Which when you have a person of faith, you go, "Oh yeah, that makes sense." Michael Woodward: When you have an atheist say it, you go, there's something more here. And so for me, I feel like all of us have a desire to feel like we're making a difference, that we're significant, that we matter. My passion is helping people figure out who they are, what they're created to do, and helping them figure out a way to get there. We do that through the podcast and telling the story of other people. We just had LeVar Burton on of Reading Rainbow. Esmie: Oh, wow, I know who that is. That's awesome. Reading Rainbow. Michael Woodward: Yeah. Esmie: Yes. Michael Woodward: We just had him on, and to be honest, there's nothing on the surface special about him other than the fact that he took a risk to step into what he was created to do. Esmie: Right. Michael Woodward: And when he did that, that's when something magical happened. That's when he was able to open up doors for children through Reading Rainbow, to spark imagination in adults through his podcast now, through Star Trek and crafting a character that impacted the lives of millions of people. I mean, there's a reason to Star Trek is one of the most beloved storylines in America.

Esmie: Oh, yes. Michael Woodward: And time and time again, the common thread between these people I talk to, is very simple. They made a choice to step past the fear, past the objections, past the obstacles and into the things that could be. And when you step from that place of accepting the status quo and stepping into an unknown future of what could be, all of a sudden crazy cool things start happening for most people. Esmie: Yes. Michael Woodward: And it's a hard journey. There are a lot of sacrifices that have to be made in that journey. So when you ask, what do I love to do? What do I love? What am I passionate about? I love sitting down with people and helping them really take a look and say, "Are you doing what you're created to do?" Now that could be a teacher, that could be an engineer for Boeing, that could be an employee. And a lot of people say, "Oh, if you're doing that, you're going to be out on your own." And that's not true. It's finding that sweet spot where you step into life every day and on the hard days you still feel like I am doing what I love to do and I'm so privileged to do what I get to do. And on the great days, you're in this place of flow where everything's just firing and you just feel like you're operating 100%. Michael Woodward: For people, that journey changes and for what's right in one season it's going to be wrong in the next and so it's not you arrive kind of story. It's a story of evolution of yourself and of the dreams and ideas and purposes you have. And sometimes it's thinking you have a dream only to find out that the pursuit of that dream led you to something better, led you to a place that you could not have seen when you started. And so that's what I love to do. I love to sit down with people and say, "Let's figure this out because... A guy I talked to one time said this, he said, "When you aren't living in a place of walking in what you're created to do, you're not only stealing from yourself, but you're stealing from everyone around you." Esmie: Oh, that is such great wisdom. Oh my heavens. Ladies and gentlemen did you hear that? You're stealing from yourself. God created us to be who we are, to come here and to know that we have power. Power even in our pain. Michael Woodward: Yeah. Esmie: We have power. And so when we accepted... And you said, we step into the fear, and then all of a sudden you step into it because it takes courage, bravery to step in because most people will hide behind fear.

Michael Woodward: Yeah. Esmie: But if you just take a chance of, "I'm going to step in," and then all of a sudden all of these opportunities come your direction and... Oh my, Michael, I love what you're saying. I feel inspired, ladies and gentlemen, don't feel inspired by Michael. Oh my God. I do feel good. So Michael, with all the knowledge and the wisdom you have now, go back and talk to yourself when you're four or five or six years old, what would you say to yourself? What wisdom would you give yourself? Michael Woodward: Don't waste time thinking you're not good enough. Don't waste time waiting for something better. Don't waste time worrying about what could happen. Just start moving forward. Start making those decisions. Start stepping into the places that you know you're created to be. Esmie: Yes. Michael Woodward: And this is the one that I think I'm still struggling with today. It's the area that I think I'm most trying to work through at a personal level. And it would be... There are going to be people who dislike you because you're willing to take the uncharted path. Esmie: Right. Michael Woodward: There are going to be people that you feel like you don't measure up to their expectation, that has less to do with you and everything to do with them. Esmie: Right. Michael Woodward: Don't let others beat you up. Step forward into who you're supposed to be. Don't let others talk you out of the dreams you have. Keep moving forward. Don't let yourself feel like you're an imposter. Step into the fullness of what you're created to do. Those would be the things I would say to myself. Esmie: Oh, nice. Take the path less traveled. Wow. I love that. So Michael, what would you like to share with our audience today? Michael Woodward: Yeah, what are you looking for there? I want to make sure- Esmie: Okay. Anything you want to say, maybe talk about a our course that you're giving or  your podcast and anything, right, just the... Yeah. Michael Woodward: Yeah. So we've been podcasting for three years. We have 290 something episodes now.

Esmie: Wow. Michael Woodward: And I'd love for you to check it out. It's all about dreamers, makers, innovators and influencers and hearing their stories and hopefully giving people some tips on how to chase their dreams and ideas and make it into reality. You can check that out at jumblethink.com. And we're doing some cool things in 2020 with Idea Camps, which are all about what we've been talking about. It's wrestling through how do I go from not knowing where to go to actually having a roadmap for the future. So we're working on that and working on launching that in 2020. Esmie: Oh, nice. Oh, Michael it was so nice talking to you. Awesome conversation today. So to learn more about Michael, go to esmielawrence.com. Michael Woodward: Yeah. This is Michael Woodward, and I'm Sprinting To Success with Esmie Lawrence. Esmie: Thank you. Awesome. Thank you so much, Michael. That was wonderful. Oh.

Dr. Heather Simone

Best-selling author, international speaker, and leading Savvy Business Mindset Strategist, Dr. Heather Simone supports women on their success journey to accelerate business growth while amplifying their own voice. Her woman’s wealth advocacy promotes passion, purpose, and prosperity lifestyles. Dr. Heather’s award-winning work in business strategy & development is augmented by her in-depth professional insights and academic research. Heather’s passions include international travel, community service, and attending theather and fashion shows in her beloved New York.

"One thing I'd like to say is that your diamond brilliance was always there. Sometimes we have to go through a disruptor to get to that shine, but that journey is so worth it. And when we think about diamonds and the pressure, heat, combustion, that comes out to be such a beautiful gem, I akin that to the same thing in a success journey. Your diamond brilliance is always there, just find it and continue to shine brilliantly."-Dr. Heather Simone

Contact: Dr. Heather Simone:  

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Esmie Lawrence: Dr. Simone, welcome. Oh, I'm so excited that you're on the show!

Dr. Heather Simone: I am thrilled to be here, Esmie. Thank you so much for having me today! Esmie Lawrence: Oh, you're welcome. I want you to go back to your childhood, when you were young. What were some of the struggles that you had?

Dr. Heather Simone: Just pick one? Well, let's just say each challenge kind of built on itself. And going through that journey, you don't realize that it's building on itself as you're kind of experiencing it. But now that I'm in a position where I can reflect back and think about it a little bit, they were meant to happen and meant to be and are connected in a serious way.

Dr. Heather Simone: When I think about my childhood, I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. I am first generation American from the beautiful island of Jamaica, West Indies.

Esmie Lawrence: Jamaica! That is where I'm from, too, young lady.

Dr. Heather Simone: Yes!

Esmie Lawrence: We have something in common.

Esmie Lawrence: That's awesome.

Dr. Heather Simone: As you may ... yes. How exciting is that, right? Esmie Lawrence: Yes. Dr. Heather Simone: As you probably know, education is a big deal in a West Indie household, in the Jamaican community. And that was at the forefront. And my mom decided to send me to the neighborhood, the next neighborhood over, to go to school. I went to private Catholic school. And yes, it was absolutely a great experience. I was able to get an excellent foundation.

Dr. Heather Simone: But the challenge for me was coming back home to where the neighborhood was. Here I am as a little girl, having to take mass transportation, wake up in the dark, and take two buses over. Because the school bus certainly didn't come to our neighborhood. And go back home and try to integrate with the people who lived in my community. And it was coming and speaking with them with conversations that already you don't know the context, that were already in play. And being able to find likeness, aliases, it became a challenge. Because I was sort of always one step removed. Always one step removed. And it became a little bit of a juggling act to be one way in the day during school and trying to be another way when you're not in school, when you're in the neighborhood. You know what I mean?

Esmie Lawrence: You went to private school. You went to private school and the other kids didn't. Dr. Heather Simone: I did. Correct. Esmie Lawrence: Then you get the division right there.

Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Right? Right. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: How did the kids ... How did they react to you when you came back from school? Dr. Heather Simone: They were quite standoffish. They were standoffish. And it became a challenge to fit in. You're wearing a uniform to go to school, and so your clothes may look slightly better, because you don't wear them that much. You have on a uniform. It became a situation where they were pointing out the differences and were quite frank with it. For some time, you tried to fit in and tried to blend in and go with the flow what they had. But it was changing who I am. And that internal dynamic can be emotionally draining.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Now how did it change you? How did it show up? Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. In school, you had to be one way. They were listening to a certain set of music. The conversations were about a certain thing. And then it was totally different at the home front, on the block, in the neighborhood. It was totally different. And so you tried to fit in, if you will, because at a young age, you're always wanting that belonging. We as humans, we have much more alike than we have unlike. And so finding that commonality. And for some time, I really tried to dress how they dressed. And it just wasn't working, because it was emotionally draining for me. And came to the realization that I have to show who I am at my core, regardless of what environment I'm in.

Dr. Heather Simone: When I made that decision internally and how I showed up was very much different, but the real me, it turned out that they liked me. Yes, being different was the thing that kind of attracted and was the bridge. "Oh, she's interesting. Oh, she can speak on X." It became the bridge and the connection, the very thing that I thought was keeping the divide became the bridge to sort of building out that network, gaining genuine friendships, and just blossoming in a way that I never imagined. Esmie Lawrence: What challenges was it for your parents to be able to ... Was there sacrifice to be able to send you to private school? All right? So what kind of sacrifice was it? What did that look like for your parents?

Dr. Heather Simone: Sure. Sure. I'm one of the first to go to ... have a college education. And so they sacrificed. They didn't have the higher education. My mom worked in the city. And she fixed her work schedule so that she could take me on those two buses and then hop on her train to be able to get to her big, fancy hotel that she worked in. And they invested in me and poured into me in a way that I'm just so appreciative for. Because it turned out to be sort of like you water a seed and then it just blooms on its own. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: And they allowed me to try different things. If I wanted to try soccer, if I wanted to try kick boxing, they made those sacrifices for me. Taking on extra jobs in the evening, household work, to be able to send me to camps, et cetera, that I wanted. That I desired to. But it was me being in a place and trying to find what I liked. Trying to find the passions.

Dr. Heather Simone: As you know, in my book, The Diamond Advantage, I talk about that genius zone and finding that genius zone. And I describe that genius zone as a place where you already have a strength in. You have an innate strength. And now as an adult, often in corporate America and other industries, they talk about your weakness and strengthening your weakness. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: And my view is lean into the strengths to begin with. If you're good at poetry, for example, lean into that. Sure, we need to be mindful of our shortcomings and some things we need to work on, but leaning into that strength, what you have an interest in, what you have a passion in, and perfect that. And then that is really how you to the next level to get to the next level success. And that's just my philosophy. Esmie Lawrence: Right. I'm going to back to the sacrifice that your mom and dad made.

Dr. Heather Simone: Yeah. Esmie Lawrence: For you to be the doctor that you are today. Because we have that in common where, I mean I'm not a doctor, but my mom sacrificed. Like we lived in the ghetto in Jamaica. And you know what the ghetto is like. Everybody's poor. But my mom, she worked really hard and left us in Jamaica and came to Canada so that she can make a better life for us. I understand the sacrifice that your mom and dad made. And I would say bless those parents that made sacrifices for us- Dr. Heather Simone: Thank you. Esmie Lawrence: so we can have a better life. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: But now- Dr. Heather Simone: Can I just share, Esmie, when you said that, it just triggered in me that I'm the last of the siblings. And so she came to the States and left my brother and sister back in Jamaica. And then I was born here as a first generation American.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: The same things that you're saying, my older brother and sister went through the exact same thing, where she's shipping things home to them, she's packing a barrel, sending clothes, sending school supplies, sending a bike. And even recording her voice and messages on a tape cassette recorder and sending it back home under her sister, my aunt, under her guide. We absolutely ... She came with very, very little. Practically just her one suitcase and built and started a whole other life in a whole different country. Esmie Lawrence: Oh, yeah. Exactly. I mean, you know the difference is my mom came to Canada. And a lot of immigrant women, they come here and they work as domestic. They work in factories.

Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: And you went to the States. My mom came to Canada. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: What a blessing it was to leave the ghetto so we can have a better opportunity. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: That we can even be here today. Dr. Heather Simone: Exactly. And be an example for the next generation, right? Esmie Lawrence: Exactly. Dr. Heather Simone: What's possible, absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Anything is possible if you put action, right? Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Sacrifice. The sacrifice was leaving her kids for so many years. Right? But we saw it as a blessing, this opportunity she created for all of us. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: But now I want to go back to your teenage years. Dr. Heather Simone: Teenage? Esmie Lawrence: Yes. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: What were some of the struggles that you had? Dr. Heather Simone: My struggles were, I went to this private school in a far place that it was away from home. And had one group of friends and another group of friends. And it was about finding myself. It was about exploring, about wanting to go out. Right? I was a very strict household, so it was basically if it wasn't school or church, then you really weren't going. I had to figure out where I can discover my likes and discover what interests me in a healthy way. But you know, because of the sacrifice, there's a very ... there's a protection. "I don't want her to make any missteps. I want to make sure that she has everything." We kind of made this in road and want to make the best of it. It was always a sort of attention, if you will. And being able to decide where can she go and explore versus not so much. And I'll give you an example.

Dr. Heather Simone: I was accepted to the University of Maryland College Park. And I was so excited. And it's about a three and a half, four hour drive from where my home was. I went down and I met my college roommate, my to be college roommate. I was excited and we started chatting about what clubs and activities we wanted to get into. And I was thrilled to go. [inaudible 00:10:43] I was to leave for college, my mother started ... She broke down completely in tears. And she was almost inconsolable. She just felt like, "You're too far away. I need you to be closer to me." It was, again, this protection. It was the investment, the sacrifice. And that is an example of you want them to explore and you want them to see the world, but at the same time, you want to keep them close, very near and dear to protect. It was a tough time for us, because I really wanted to go away. I really wanted to go away and see things and start new things.

Dr. Heather Simone: And in the end, we made an agreement. She was reasonable enough to say, "Go to your state school, Rutgers University, but you can live on campus." And so that was less than an hour away. Where I was far enough that I can explore and bloom, but close enough that she can be there if needed. Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Heather Simone: And that was a compromise. It seems like a mountain, when I was going through it, now it may seem like a little bit of a molehill. But I'm sure there's so many others out there going through, wanting to go out and explore versus staying close to home. It's the risk. The example I used back then was, don't you remember America's Top Model, Tara? She went away to Paris in teenage years. And she made something marvelous of herself, but she had to leave her location. And sometimes we have to leave what we know, where we know, that comfort zone, to get a little bit uncomfortable to really push us to that next level.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Simone, I can relate to your mom. Because my son is a swimmer. And the first time, I think he was 12 years old, and he was going to the States or Europe. I can't remember exactly where he was going. At 12 years old. And I thought, with his team, and I was so nervous. I thought, "No, he's too young, he's too young." Dr. Heather Simone: Yes, yes. Esmie Lawrence: And then one of my friends that I was ... like a teammate on the Olympic team. She said, "Esmie, don't you remember that when you were young and you left and you traveled the world? He's going to be fine. Your son is going to be fine."

Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: I thought, "Yeah." You know what? You have to let go. Let go your children. But it was tough. And even now, my daughter's in Europe playing volleyball. Dr. Heather Simone: Congratulations. Esmie Lawrence: I'm thinking, "Oh, my God. My daughter, I miss her so much." Right? Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: And at this moment, my son is in the States swimming. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: But now I've gotten used to the fact that you have to let your children go. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: My mom let me go. Even though she missed me, she said, "Esmie, you have to go and just do your thing." And so it's tough to do that as a parent. But you have to let them go. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Fly and be, become who they are. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: Now, what are some of the other challenges that you had as a teenager? Dr. Heather Simone: That was when ... That was going through the, "Okay, can I explore, can I not explore." I made an agreement. I negotiated with her and stayed closer to home. Dr. Heather Simone: And then in school, in high school and throughout college, it was always about getting to know others who were different than me. I was always interested in that. I was always interested in learning about cultures, learning about who they are. Not just what the stereotypes were. Dr. Heather Simone: At first, it was like, "Oh, why is she always trying to sit with those folks? And why is she," but I had no boundaries or barriers in that sense. In fact, I had an interest in that and constantly reached out across the aisle, across ... it just became so much more enrichening. But where the sting was, was in the people who were closer to me, who perhaps didn't have that courage to be able to do that. And it was a judgmental criticism that you had to reconcile for yourself. And that took a sense of courage. I think back as a teenager and a young adult, that you make your own judgments and you win some, you lose some. But at the end of the-

Esmie Lawrence: How did they criticize you? What did they say to you? Dr. Heather Simone: Who are you trying to be? Folks typically want to put you in a square box and then that's all there is. But there's a lot of different edges and there's a lot of different layers in there. That if you just tap into, that you'll be able to express. And so gymnastics, just doing things that weren't customary to my particular group became ... you raise an eyebrow like, "Why is she doing too much. She doesn't have to do all of that. What is she trying to do? Is she trying to be in competition with us?" And it was never, ever about being in competition with anyone but myself.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: You had to sort of finesse it in a way that, "Hey, I want to do this, you want to come along?" And they're like, "Well, why do you want to do that?" And no, it's not about trying to be legging up someone or being better than anyone, it was about an expression in myself that I wanted to explore. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: That can be misread. And that can land like being competitive with someone else, especially amongst women. Even as teenagers, especially amongst females. It's not about legging someone up or over shadowing someone. It's about ... It's your own desire to grow that you're working against. I had to save the relationships I cared about for those misreadings, because they were quite judgmental and frank in that, "Oh, she's exploring and she's doing this. And we're not." I would invite them to come along and have a really inclusive attitude about it.

Dr. Heather Simone: But again, the fear, that negative chatter in your head, "Is this going to be accepted, is this going to be okay?" It takes time to be able to overcome that, reconcile that for us as individuals, and overcome that and move forward. That was always a challenge. Because I was always raising my hand to try different things. The things certainly weren't necessary, but it made me as a whole person. And that allowed me to explore different things. Esmie Lawrence: It's like crabs in a bucket. When you want to leave and explore your environment, meet different people. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: The people around you are just going to pull you back. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Sometimes, because they want you to stay in your little box. And how dare you try and stretch yourself. How dare you try and to learn new things. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Right, they are trying to pull you back. Not because ... some people, I think, it's just they love you, want to make sure keep you safe, right? And they don't want you to go anywhere. But you're going to grow when you leave that bucket. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. And Esmie, that rings so true. That if we just ... We're not going to grow if we're always in our comfort zone. Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Dr. Heather Simone: And so, stepping out on that edge, just taking that little step of action. It's not so bad. We're still here. We may have learned some things from it. But it gives us the confidence to take yet another step and to say I can take this even further. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: And that's what it's been. It's been these incremental wins that kind of say, "Okay, the universe has my back. I'm safe, I can do this, I have all the tools and resources I need. And if I have a misstep, it's okay." Esmie Lawrence: It's okay. Dr. Heather Simone: Because you can brush yourself off and we can reset and move again. Yes. Exactly. Esmie Lawrence: Right, you know fail- Dr. Heather Simone: Yeah, that's been a theme throughout.

Esmie Lawrence: That's good. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. I say fail forward. Esmie Lawrence: Exactly. Dr. Heather Simone: Fail forward. Esmie Lawrence: Exactly. Fail forward, because when you fail, you learn. It's like, "Okay, I tried this way, didn't work. I'll try something different." And you tweak it and you try again. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: Because failing, it's a way to reach your success. And success, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. Failing- Dr. Heather Simone: Exactly, it's ongoing. Esmie Lawrence: Right. I say, fail and fail fast. And just keep going. Dr. Heather Simone: That's right.

Esmie Lawrence: I want to bring it back to- Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: I want to bring it back to some of the challenge you had as an adult, now. Dr. Heather Simone: Yeah. Which that is not too far away. Esmie Lawrence: Young adult, how about young adult? Dr. Heather Simone: As a young adult. Dr. Heather Simone: And about the unwritten word. Esmie Lawrence: I would like to take ... Dr. Simone, I'd like to take you back to some of the challenges you had as a young adult. What were they? Dr. Heather Simone: I want to think back to when i first entered the work field. And I entered into corporate America bright eyed and ready to take on the world. I was in the financial markets. And so I was handling the finances of small business owners and growing their business as a financial advisor.

Dr. Heather Simone: And my colleagues, to be honest, they were majority white males. And they were trained all the same, Esmie. They were Ivy league grads that had ... They were accounting majors. They were economics majors. They were all business majors. My background was that I ended up with my undergraduate degree with a bachelor's in Biological Science, to go premed. And I decided that I was going to change fields and go into finance. And I can tell you, at least for the first 10 years of my career, that negative chatter was in my head very profoundly. That you were not trained the same way, why are you sitting here? You're not good enough. They were business majors and you were not. Dr. Heather Simone: And my voice was subdued, because I didn't have the confidence to be able to speak up. But what happened, and it took me years to learn this, and I'm so happy to be able to sit here and share now, is that we solution things. Regardless of what job we're in, our job is to find a solution. Whether you're in healthcare, whether you're in education. Whether you're in the financial markets, our job is to find a solution.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: And what I found out was because they were trained so similarly, they solutioned the same way. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: The problem solving was the same way. All those classes that I took, physics, organic chemistry, and what have you, all those natural science classes, it did something for my critical thinking, to be able to problem solve correctly. And the world that we live in, we're living in a global market. We're living in a global market with a local feel. And we're working for multi-national companies. And so our competition is the global competition. Esmie Lawrence: That's right.

Dr. Heather Simone: To innovate and disrupt the market and move forward to be the fastest, the best, and to be able to understand market trends and to be able to pivot correctly takes a lot of bit of problem solving and critical thinking. And if you're doing things the same way ... I can name organizations that have fallen into a demise because they weren't able to replicate. And Blockbuster comes to mind right now. When I did get a seat, and they said, "Well, Heather, what do you think?" And I would say, very softly, what I would think. And they're like, "Huh. Didn't think of it that way. Let's try that." What happened was, the way I solutioned seemed to be out of the box way of getting there. But it was creating winds. It was creating winds. So it came to a point when a decision, when a business decision had to be made, they were not making it until I was in the room.

Esmie Lawrence: Nice. Dr. Heather Simone: "Let's run this by Heather and let me see what she thinks. Because she only has a different way of approaching this. So before we make a final decision ..." And my calendar began to fill up. And that was my acceleration through corporate America and that ... It was just wind on top of wind where I began to be known for my performance. But it was the root cause of that performance was being able to look at something and take those data points, assess it, and then say, "Okay, what about this. Let's do it a little bit differently." And that became many years later, I can say now, amplified my voice. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: Because I started to believe in me more so. I gained the confidence to be able to raise your hand. And it became a way for me to be able to amplify my voice and bring other women along. There's enough room for more than just one token at this table, if you will. Esmie Lawrence: There is! There is! There is really. Dr. Simone, there's enough room at the table for everyone.

Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: And if we work together and not be selfish, and pull each other along, then we can fly. We can soar together. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: But if we're going to become selfish and we're jealous and we don't want to ... to make sure that you don't win, then we end up crashing together. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: I'm so glad that you are helping women to soar. Tell me, how are you helping women to soar? Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Absolutely. There was a catalyst moment, I lost my job. I was working for a Fortune 100 company. And there were about 50 minority women that we all knew who we were. And it was sort of a group of us, where we mentor each other. And we would laugh hard, but the tears would roll, as well. Because there were so many unwritten rules that you weren't aware of. And, "That's not what I meant. That's how they received it?" It was ... okay, speak up, but then when you speak up, "Oh, you're too assertive." It became a juggling act to figure out how to land how you intended to land. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: Long story short, I was ... they told me to go ... they gave me special assignments and they told me to go into another area to get experience. I did whatever was the rules of engagement to be able to get to the next level, to gain the experience and to put forth the best value add. And while doing that, I was tapped and said that, "You have this special assignment. Not a lot of resources, but you have one year to fulfill it. And after that, we can talk about what the next thing is for you." 10 months in to this assignment, my manager switched. And I no longer had the manager that was aware of this. The new manager was my peer. And now my peer became my leader. As my peer, we would often not always see eye to eye, because again, I'm bringing it from a different perspective.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: And he was more of the traditional sense in his views. Long story short, my job was eliminated. And it became the disruptor for me, personally, that, "Wow. This so called path that was supposed to be going forward and it became a disruptor." That was an awakening moment for me, Esmie, because my job was taken from me. Where you were doing 110%. Where you were staying until 7:30 at night and coming in early. Where you were leading all these other charges that were not even part of your scope and responsibility. And I said, "What is it worth?" I began to reconcile. And I went back to those women. Those women, those about 50 or so women, that we were in a network together. And I was thinking about them. Like, "Wow, I didn't have college experienced parents. I kind of learned this on my own. I want to pour into. I want to pour into these women." I started speaking engagements, decided to have my own consulting firm. Which is going well. I started- Esmie Lawrence: Dr. Simone, I must stop you here. Know why? Dr. Heather Simone: Yes! Esmie Lawrence: Because when you got fired from your job, you know really what it was? It was God tapping you and saying, "Move to a different direction." Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: "You're not needed here." It was a blessing.

Dr. Heather Simone: It was. Esmie Lawrence: I just have to inject that. Dr. Heather Simone: It was a blessing. Thank you, because it's almost the best thing that's ever happened to me. Yes. Esmie Lawrence: It was a blessing. Dr. Heather Simone: It was, "Your assignment is done here. And I have a new assignment for you, sis." It's done. Esmie Lawrence: You know what? Dr. Heather Simone: Your work is done here. Esmie Lawrence: For people there who have lost their jobs, look at the good side of the job, because that job wasn't for you. It's time to move on. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: Instead of being depressed and crying about it, look at the blessing and say, "Where shall I go now?" Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: And if you're a Christian and religious like I am, I say, "God, what direction you want me to move now?" And sometimes it comes to you and sometimes you have to go and find it. I just want to say, Dr. Simone, it was a blessing. And I'm [inaudible 00:29:46] fired you. Dr. Heather Simone: I know. It was a blessing, absolutely. Because I have new fire. A new fire. Esmie Lawrence: A new passion. Dr. Heather Simone: New passion that I'm absolutely committed and dedicated to. Because it brings me so much joy. It brings me so much joy. Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Heather Simone: My passion is to help women get to their next level success. And that journey looks different for each of us. My success journey looks different from yours, Esmie, as does everyone else. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: But sometimes my success was being defined back then by the title that was being chased. By in that job. And what I found was having that limited view of success limits us as a person to really soar. And that realization of there's multi-dimensional success that we each have to define for ourselves. Re-defining success under your own terms. It is what The Diamond Advantage, my book, is all about.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: In that book, I speak about five dimensions of success. Esmie Lawrence: Explain what ... tell me what that is, I'm so excited. Because I've heard so much about your book. So please, explain what those advantages are. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Absolutely. The Diamond Advantage is made up of what I call the prism, which are five dimensions of success. The prism is really an acronym for the five dimensions. The first one is P for personal. In the personal space, if we're not taking care of ourselves, as women, we're not going to be there to serve anyone else, right? Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: Like they say on the airplane, put the mask on yourself first before you on someone else. But what does that really look like? How does that show up for you? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you keeping stress at bay? Are you eating clean? Are you moving your body? All those things come into play. Are you organized? Because disorganized stresses me out, I got to keep everything organized. Finding what that is for you in that personal domain is critically important for success. In other words, if we just work on one section of the success that's not true success. Because the other areas are going to be depleted and going to be lacking. Dr. Heather Simone: The second is R, about the relationships. Right? I'm a relationship person. On Myers-Briggs, my E was off the Richter Scale, I think it was the highest level it could have been. And I see that now, even through some of my examples, that I've always been relational. But we can't be everything to everybody. Right? We have to be able to know the relationships that mean the most to us, who are our support group, and who's meant to be there. And then we have to prioritize that. And the relationships that we care about and it means something to us, we have to nurture those. We have to nurture those.

Dr. Heather Simone: I think back at how many games, football games, did I miss for my sons. Was that always the right thing to do? Because I was in the office trying to get everything done. And so, the struggle there's always a tension there about those relationships and being able to make boundaries around those relationships that are appropriate. When we do that, it feeds our spirit, it feeds our soul, and we're happier. That was the R. Dr. Heather Simone: The I is for intellectual. And that goes back to how fast paced this environment, especially the business environment, is through innovation, through technology. And I always ... We're all lifelong learners. Feeding that, learning something new, reading a book, whatever it may be that you want to explore. Learning how to [inaudible 00:33:38] and Salsa. Whatever it may be. Do that, because we are growing. And if we're not feeding that, then we're not growing. Esmie Lawrence: Oh, for sure. For sure. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: You have to grow, because I mean somebody would go, "Oh, haven't read a book in years." Right? In decades, haven't taken a course. How are you going to grow if you don't stretch yourself? Take a course, take maybe something totally different from the usual. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: Meet some people. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: It's funny, because they say as you get older, you meet less people. Your circle of influence becomes smaller and smaller. Mine is growing. Dr. Heather Simone: Yes! Esmie Lawrence: Getting bigger, because I'm stretching myself, right? Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely, absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: That's what you have to do. Because you have to grow and learn. If we don't, you start dying. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. For me, it's travel. I love to travel. I love to travel. I love to see, first of all, God's beauty every where. Esmie Lawrence: Yes. Dr. Heather Simone: I'm just in awe every time I go somewhere. I'm like, "Oh, my goodness!" The people, the people, the connections. It's nothing that you would have learned out of a textbook. Sure, we can understand and we can read in a textbook about a culture. But when you connect with folks, you see that we're so much more alike across continents than we are different. Esmie Lawrence: Yes, that's right. Dr. Heather Simone: I just fully enjoy that. I just fully ... I love to travel. That's my I. And [inaudible 00:35:07] can think about what their I is and do some more of that in this year.

Dr. Heather Simone: After the I is S, in spiritual. And it may be quite obvious that I am a spiritual person. Esmie Lawrence: Nice. Dr. Heather Simone: And I could not have made it if I couldn't put my burdens on and trust that they would be taken care of and put my focus somewhere else. It doesn't matter what the religion is, it's believing in something bigger than yourself. Which also drives the impact and fuels why this is my mission, this is my assignment that I'm called to do, is to support other women in their growth. That spiritual connection, regardless of what it looks like, I can't encourage you more to be able to have that and meditate and figure out and get clear on what the next steps are, right? I don't move without praying. You can move with confidence knowing that everything may not line up 110%, but it's going to be pretty close there, because it's already designed and taken care of for you.

Esmie Lawrence: I so agree with you. Because with me, I always say, "Lord, help me, guide me." Because I remember the times in my life. I mean, I grew up as a Christian. But times that God was in the background, you know? Kind of forgot about God. Right? When I rededicated my life back to God, I said, "God, guide me and protect me." Because you know my life, you know how the story ends, right? Dr. Heather Simone: Yes. Esmie Lawrence: Because sometimes when you lead, you're trying to lead yourself. Right? And you say that you think that you're bigger than everything else. Well, no. Let God guide you, protect you. You say a little prayer. Then I don't get as stressed as I used to. Because I know there's somebody leading me, watching out for me. Dr. Heather Simone: Absolutely. Esmie Lawrence: It gives me comfort. Dr. Heather Simone: It gives comfort. And it takes so much pressure off. Esmie Lawrence: It does. Dr. Heather Simone: It takes so much pressure off. And we talk about sometimes I hear, "Hustle so hard." And it's really my view is getting more in the flow. Because when you're more in the flow, it doesn't feel like this strenuous hustle. It feels aligned, like this is what I'm supposed to do. I can't even describe that it's so far from this hustle. Sure, there's a solid work ethic involved. Sure, for sure there's a solid work ethic involved. But you're in the flow. It's not this anxiety, the stress, this internal turmoil. Because you are in the flow. There's a comfort level and a trust that it's going to be okay at the end of the day. Esmie Lawrence: Yes, oh, I love that. Dr. Simone, you're awesome. I could talk to you forever.

Dr. Heather Simone: Oh, thank you. Esmie Lawrence: No, you're very powerful lady. I would like to know, what is it that you're still struggling with now? Dr. Heather Simone: Yeah. Right now, I am learning again about boundaries. I'm totally committed to helping everyone, but I know that I have to meet folks where they are. Esmie Lawrence: Right. Dr. Heather Simone: And I'm devising, right now, new ways to be able to reach more and have a more of an impact than the one on ones that can be time intensive, to be able to help others map out their success journey. Dr. Heather Simone: Right now I'm working on modules that are online modules. That my clients can download. And then we can come together with questions. It's guided, but I don't have to be there in terms of that commitment, that full-time. And creating that boundary, I think, becomes a win-win. Because I feel like I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. As well as I'm opening up to others to support them. But it's in a way that I can have work-life integration, right? This doesn't feel like work, because it's in the flow. However, the time it takes and commitment it takes to see someone, build a business to seven figures, it takes a lot of one on one work. Introducing the online modules, for me, helps me with my boundaries. That I can have the reach and impact that I desire, still while doing it meaningfully, purposefully, and my client's getting what they well deserve.

Esmie Lawrence: Right, awesome. Tell me one thing that you would like to say to our audience today. Dr. Heather Simone: Wow. One thing I'd like to say is that your diamond brilliance was always there. Sometimes we have to go through a disruptor to get to that shine, but that journey is so worth it. And when we think about diamonds and the pressure, heat, combustion, that comes out to be such a beautiful gem, I akin that to the same thing in a success journey. Your diamond brilliance is always there, just find it and continue to shine brilliantly. Esmie Lawrence: Continue to shine. Oh, my gosh. Dr. Simone, that was awesome. What an awesome conversation we had today! Dr. Heather Simone: Thank you. This has been amazing! I could talk to you for hours, as well, Esmie. Esmie Lawrence: I could talk to you for hours! Oh, my gosh. Dr. Heather Simone: I truly enjoyed this. Yes. Esmie Lawrence: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening to Sprinting to Success podcast. And have an amazing day! Thank you!  

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Kenneth Cloke: Thank you.

Esmie Lawrence: It's a pleasure to have you on the show.

Kenneth Cloke: The same for me. Thank you for inviting me.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, you're welcome. I am going to take you back to some of the challenges you had as a child.

Kenneth Cloke: Okay, well let's see. I would say the first one was growing up in a relatively poor family and we had a chicken ranch out in the San Fernando Valley and I started working when I was about 9, 10 years old. I loved it and earned enough money to buy a horse. I grew up on horseback, but also I had problems because of conflicts within my family, conflicts with my father who was alcoholic even though he wasn't drinking regularly.

Kenneth Cloke: I became a mediator at a pretty young age, but my mother was also a mediator. She was a nursery school teacher, which requires a lot of conflict resolution skills. She was the director of Head Start and set up Head Start centers, one on Skid Row, one in Nickerson Gardens and various places around the city. So, I grew up with a work ethic. My parents were also very progressive politically, so we grew up very much opposed to discrimination of all kinds and committed to supporting people, just people generally. There was, I would say, even though we were relatively poor, there was a lot of happiness in our family, a lot of pulling together. I think a lot of that was really due to my mother.

Esmie Lawrence: You at nine years old bought a horse.

Kenneth Cloke: Well, I started working at 9 and I think I was 10 when I bought the horse.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. That says a lot about your character because you grew up poor and then you worked to save and make sure that you can actually buy a horse and take care of a horse.

Kenneth Cloke: Exactly. Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: I think that's amazing to be so young and to be able to buy a horse. Now fast-forward, what are some of the challenges that you had as a teenager now?

Kenneth Cloke: Well, I think all teenagers have tremendous challenges around love and creating relationships with other people. I started going steady with a girl when I was in junior high and we went steady for four years, if you can imagine that.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Kenneth Cloke: A large part of it is just trying to figure out who you are and trying to figure out what the rules are and how you learn what to do when you're interested in somebody and you don't know whether they're interested in you or not. I realized, I would say early on, that a large part of what the rules were didn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm trying to figure out [inaudible 00:05:35] in the world. Initially sort of reading about different religions, reading about philosophy, reading about science, about people, about political issues. I just started thinking about those things when I was a kid.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. As a kid you were thinking about the world?

Kenneth Cloke: I was, right.

Esmie Lawrence: Not just about your immediate family, but how you fit in the world.

Kenneth Cloke: Yes.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Now, move forward now. As an adult, what were some of the issues? Because we all have issues as adults, right?

Kenneth Cloke: Absolutely. All our lives.

Esmie Lawrence: All our lives.

Kenneth Cloke: I went to school, to college in Berkeley and the 1960s. I don't think I need to say much more.

Esmie Lawrence: No, you don't.

Kenneth Cloke: I was very active in the student movement at Berkeley. I worked in the civil rights movement in the South and in the North. I worked in Selma and Montgomery and Southern Alabama and South Georgia.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Kenneth Cloke: Then came back and worked in the North in the San Francisco Bay area. I was the head of the principal liberal student organization at Berkeley. I served in student government. I then went to law school and in order to try to be of service to the various political principles that I believed in and this was pretty much full-time. Being a student was really my second job. But my first job really was working, trying to create change in the world.

Kenneth Cloke: It was an incredibly exciting period to grow up in because there were great challenges. But there were also, there was a, well, there was a movement. There was a group of people who were in motion who were discovering and standing up for the things that they believed in. I had to confront my fear of being arrested, my fear of being blacklisted or whatever it might happen to be. I probably learned more in the South in a week that I'd learned in a year.

Esmie Lawrence: In what regards? What do you mean?

Kenneth Cloke: Well, I learned about courage and I learned about dedication and commitment from the people who I worked with in the mass movements and the ... These were young kids. There were sharecroppers. They were people who against unbelievable odds stood up for the things that they believed in. It taught me an enormous lesson about how important it is to have integrity and principles and to stand by them, and how what you think is difficult ends up being the easiest thing there is. The easy thing is the most difficult. The easy thing is to bow out and not do anything, but you end up knowing that you weren't there when it counted. If you were there when it counted that really makes a difference for you.

Esmie Lawrence: When I look at conflict at night on TV in the 60s and when we see black people getting beaten and just that's treated like they're not humans at all, I wonder would I have the courage to actually go and stand up and do that? I don't know if I would have the courage to do that. Well, the people who actually did that, Martin Luther King, yourself included, actually marching for change, that's really commended. Because you guys did that and stood up and say, "I'm not going to turn a blind eye to this," there's actually change in the U.S. You brought in so many different good things, even though there's still a struggle.

Kenneth Cloke: Yes. [crosstalk 00:09:27] struggle, but when you see what it actually means to people, what it means in their daily lives, then you know you don't have any choice. You have to do this because a lot hangs in the balance, not just for them but for you too.

Esmie Lawrence: Right, because silence is consent.

Kenneth Cloke: Yeah. I also learned to figure out things about racism, what that was all about. Partly because I lived in the black community and there was a complete flip that took place. If I saw somebody who was black, I felt safe and if I saw-

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Kenneth Cloke: ... anybody who was white, I felt like I was in danger.

Esmie Lawrence: Is it because you felt in danger when you're around the white people back then? Is it because that they knew your history then you stood up for civil rights, is that the reason why?

Kenneth Cloke: No. The reason why was because they hated me and hated all of the things that we were doing. They were really, I mean, what you were describing in terms of being tear gassed and beaten and arrested and all of that, that was what was happening. We confronted the Ku Klux Klan. They were right there.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Kenneth Cloke: But what you discover is the power of nonviolence, the power of being there together. It wasn't just me standing there alone by myself against an angry mob, it was, even though there were times when I was alone, I knew that I wasn't really alone, that we were all there together.

Esmie Lawrence: When I watch the news, sometimes I feel so depressed when I watch the news because when you're watching news and you see all the conflict going on in the world with immigrants and people of color and just so many different conflicts happening, you wonder what kind of world is this? Is there even a solution to end all the conflicts going on in the world and where do you start?

Kenneth Cloke: Yes, well there is a solution and the solution is for us to figure out what skills we need in order to work with people who are different from us. That's it. That's conflict resolution skills, it's listening skills, it's collaborative negotiation skills, it's dialogue skills, nonviolent communication, lots and lots of different skills. The fact that there are skills means that it's just easier for people to slip into hatred than is for them to do the hard work of learning how to get along. But that's the solution, we have to pull together. My way of saying this is all those conflicts that you describe, they're 'us versus them' conflicts. But there's a secret.

Esmie Lawrence: What's the secret?

Kenneth Cloke: There is no them.

Esmie Lawrence: There's just us.

Kenneth Cloke: There's just us. That's a beautiful idea and it's true. Another way of saying it is, "It doesn't matter whose end of the boat is sinking, we're all in the boat together."

Esmie Lawrence: We're all in the boat together and no man is an island. Then how do you bring these people who are having different conflicts, how do you bring them to the table? How do you bring them together so they can even discuss what the issues are?

Kenneth Cloke: This is the hard work that we are doing and we are ... I started an organization called Mediators Beyond Borders that is working in a lot of different countries. Right now we are working in Kenya and Nigeria and Rwanda and also in Ecuador and Colombia. We've done work in Greece. For example, I went for three years teaching Greek mediators how to conduct dialogues between immigrants and Greek citizens.

Esmie Lawrence: How do you teach them to conduct dialogue?

Kenneth Cloke: You learn facilitation skills, how to design a dialogue, what questions would be useful to ask? For example, we started with two questions. Question one to each person to be answered in a small group, so you don't do it in the big group. You break down into smaller groups where it's easy for people to relate to each other. First question is, have you personally in your life ever been the new one on a block, in a neighborhood, in a family, in a school, in a workplace? What did it feel like to be the new one? Everybody had been there before. How were you treated? What happened?

Kenneth Cloke: Then second question, have you ever been in your life, the one who's been there for a while in a family or neighborhood or school or workplace? Now these new people are coming in and changing everything. What did that feel like? Now everybody can start to imagine what it might feel like to be an immigrant or a Greek citizen.

Esmie Lawrence: Then you can empathize with people and actually say, "Yeah, because I've been you, we've all have been you in a situation." Then we can say we can see the situation from somebody else's perspective.

Kenneth Cloke: Exactly right. That's the key thing. There are two elements to it, which are empathy and honesty. Empathy without honesty, and you're a wimp and honesty without empathy and you're brutal. It's the combination of having an open and honest relationship with each other, where everybody gets to say what's happening to them and where we will look for ways of understanding each other because we are all diverse from one another multiple, multiple ways.

Kenneth Cloke: The big lesson here is, "Who am I in relationship to others, the ones who I really don't understand, who I'm even a little afraid of, how do I deal with that fear?" And that's where it comes in because when you have empathy, it breaks down that fear.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. If you have empathy, yes, it breaks down fear so then because you can relate now. It's not us against them.

Kenneth Cloke: Yes.

Esmie Lawrence: It's us together. Wow. The work that you're doing is just amazing. What's the best way to communicate?

Kenneth Cloke: The best? George Bernard Shaw, who was a playwright in England and wrote in the 19th century said, "The greatest difficulty or the greatest problem with communication is the illusion that it has been accomplished." The idea that you've communicated, that ends up not necessarily being true. The best way of working with somebody who you don't necessarily understand or don't agree with is to ask questions, heartfelt questions, to come from your own heart and to ask a question from your heart to their heart.

Kenneth Cloke: Why you feel that way? What life experiences have you had that have led you to feel so deeply about this issue? Why do you care so much about this? What does it mean to you? Those kinds of questions and those are what we do in mediation. We ask those kinds of questions. Another thing that people can do is they can get trained in mediation, conflict resolution, those kinds of skills. That's where a large part of what it is about. It's about asking questions, real questions.

Esmie Lawrence: If you go into the workplace and you feel that somebody doesn't like you, how do you resolve that? How do you get them to like you or be able to feel that it's not them, it's you? How do you go about that?

Kenneth Cloke: Well, I think the first thing is to acknowledge the fact that there's a little part inside of you that doesn't understand them, that doesn't get what they're about. The very first question I asked myself is, "What would have had to have happened to you, to me, to make me act like that?" The purpose of that is to lead me to a question that I can then ask that person.

Kenneth Cloke: Even a question that says, "Do you hate me? Why is it that you won't say hello to me?" Or, "What is it that you think I'm thinking about you?" But the reality is everybody is coming from a place of self-defense, self-doubt, wondering what's going on with other people. One of the interesting things I think about being somebody who's been on the outside, for me in the civil rights movement, for you perhaps as an African American woman-

Esmie Lawrence: I'm a Canadian. I'm a Canadian, a Jamaican Canadian woman.

Kenneth Cloke: Oh, Jamaican Canadian. Is that you have to come, you grow up learning that you are not being seen for who you actually are and you develop skills in being able to handle that, superior skills I think.

Esmie Lawrence: It's really weird because I have developed skills and the skills came from me accepting who I am, accepting my color, accepting the way I speak, accepting everything about me. Then I say, "It doesn't matter what you think about me. What I think about myself is what really matters."

Kenneth Cloke: Yes.

Esmie Lawrence: I dropped the fact that I need approval from you. I figured as long as I'm being kind and caring and just being my good self, it doesn't matter what you think about me because it's not going to affect me. However, it did affect me. But I had to develop those skills that you talked about.

Kenneth Cloke: Yes. But this is where it begins. It begins with ourself, with self-acceptance. Because if we don't like ourselves, if we internalize those messages, we're just going to project them back out onto other people and that will become, that'll turn into a circle. We will behave badly towards them and they will say, "Oh look, see how badly she's behaving, that justifies me in my bad behavior." The secret of nonviolence as a tactic that as used by Martin Luther King and virtually everybody in the civil rights movement, is that it holds a mirror up to the other person and they have to look at themselves.

Esmie Lawrence: Is it because you take away the excuse from them?

Kenneth Cloke: Yes. You take away the excuse. Martin Luther King said, "There are two great powers in the world. The power to inflict suffering and the power to suffer, being willing to suffer in order to achieve something." That is a really much, much greater power. Because the person is a human being on the other side of it and can't stand it. They can't stand what they look like when you hold the mirror up. That's the purpose of it. Whereas, and this is not just abstract, this is real, real life experiences of when I was in demonstrations in the South and was provoked and attacked and started to slip into hatred and then seeing the smile on the other person's face because he got me.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. But did he really? Did he really?

Kenneth Cloke: No.

Esmie Lawrence: He did not.

Kenneth Cloke: Because I could stop. I could stop myself and I said, "Now I understand why I was given this training. Now, I get it."

Esmie Lawrence: To not to attack. It doesn't matter what they say, it doesn't matter what hate they throw at you or how they physically hurt you, it doesn't matter. It's because there's a purpose. There's a reason why you're going to suffer. Because of what you are going to bring, what's going to happen in the end. It's not for you, it's for others. The people would died, it wasn't for them, it's for their children, their grandchildren. That was the sacrifice that was necessary to open their eyes to see the injustice.

Kenneth Cloke: Yeah, exactly. They are [inaudible 00:22:12] because their hearts aren't fully open. That can't be. Because of that, someone who approaches them with an open heart becomes scary to them because it might mean that their whole life could change as a result of what is about to happen to them and that's what we want.

Esmie Lawrence: We want change. But change takes time and change comes from within.

Kenneth Cloke: Yes. From within and also without. It starts as you, as you said, by looking at yourself and having developing a sense of who you are. I think that's important for all people who are not seen as who they are in society. Everybody has to develop a way of seeing themselves and on various levels. That includes most of all of us.

Kenneth Cloke: But then the second part of it is to manifest it in the world, to change the systems and the cultures and the structures in order to create ways for everybody to overcome those difficulties. That's why it's important for there to be fairness in hiring and diversity in hiring in the workplace. Because without it, people don't have the workplace experiences of working with diverse groups of people. Without it they never learn this fundamental lesson that what you were taught is just total nonsense.

Esmie Lawrence: So true, because you know Ken, there are people that's good in the world, it doesn't matter what color you are. People that's good, bad and different, they come to the workplace or society with different personalities. You can't just pigeonhole someone because they're black or Chinese or Indian. You can't pigeonhole them and say they're all are like this because we're not.

Esmie Lawrence: It's nice to have diversity in the workplace because maybe you'll get to know your neighbor who's different from you or well, your coworker, who's different from you and say, "Hey, she's different. What's going on?" Because I know some people say, they'll look at me and they'll say, "Oh, you're different. You're black, but you're different." No, I'm not different. I'm just me.

Kenneth Cloke: I think that there is a movement beyond good and bad people, which is complicated people, people who have little bits of good inside them and little bits of bad and they alternate between them. Mostly there is pain and loss and fear and insecurity and not knowing really what to do, being worried about your life and how you're being treated. I mean, it's all of those things. People are really complicated and the difficulty with it being good or bad is that we can slip easily into, "Well, this is a bad person." But what that does is it gives you permission to behave badly towards them. We make them bad in order to give ourselves permission to be badder.

Esmie Lawrence: I know when you think about black men and they'll say, sometimes I hear on the radio and TV, "They're criminals." Well, no, they're not all criminals. That one person who did that compared to when you hear about white people, they'll say sometimes they'll say, "Oh, he's a bad man because he's white. What's the difference? They're both people. They both did something bad. You judge them according to that bad person, that bad white person, that bad black person, that bad Chinese, Indian. But you don't say they're all bad because of one race, because it's convenient for you to say that.

Kenneth Cloke: Yes, that's exactly right. Are there any bad babies?

Esmie Lawrence: No.

Kenneth Cloke: One of the real sources of bad behavior is that somebody before that was bad to you and so we pass it on because it feels more powerful than being a victim.

Esmie Lawrence: A long time ago, decades ago, this one lady said to me, she goes, "I don't like black men." I said, "Why?" She goes, "Because that one person was a black guy that was mean to her." So, she doesn't like black men. To me it was just like totally ridiculous statement to make. I said to her, I said, "Any white guys had been mean to you?" She goes, "Yeah." I said, "Do you like white men?" She goes, "Yes." It doesn't make sense to me.

Kenneth Cloke: This is about how stereotypes get formed. I do prejudice reduction bias awareness workshops, and I was asking people what their experiences were with prejudice. This one woman said, "One day I was driving in a city in Los Angeles, Eagle rock. I was driving through downtown Eagle rock and I didn't see the crosswalk and I pulled in and there was a guy crossing the street and I stopped roughly, but I was a little bit in the crosswalk. It was an elderly Chinese man and he walked up to my car and he took his fist and he went bang on the hood of my car." She said, "Ever since then, every time I've been in downtown Eagle Rock, I've been looking out for elderly Chinese men."

Esmie Lawrence: Doesn't make sense.

Kenneth Cloke: But it's perfect. It's just exactly how the brain operates because it's a way of thinking fast in order to be able to draw lessons from the things that have hurt you and that's all. Then we know where this comes from and now we know what we can do about it. There's thinking slow as opposed to thinking fast and we can change those experiences in just exactly the way that you did. To say, well, "Have you ever had any experiences with black men who didn't hurt you, and what about white men who did hurt you?"

Kenneth Cloke: You can help the person start to think more rationally about it. But rationality doesn't really do it, it has to be a real-life experience with somebody who is scary to you, who hurt you or somebody like that person in order to be able to actually work your way through this subconscious place.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Ken, we can talk enough for another hour. I'm telling you, just I love your compensation. What would you like to share with our audience today?

Kenneth Cloke: I think the main thing I'd like to share is that conflicts can be resolved, that it is possible to dig deeper into what lies beneath the surface of virtually all conflicts and to find ways of communicating with each other. I do this every single day, so I know that it can be done. I would just encourage people not to give up hope, to continue trying to do this. Especially to ask the questions that you really want to ask in as kind of way as you can, but ask the questions and people will understand that if you come from a place of real curiosity that that's a form of caring.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. That's awesome advice. You come from a viewpoint of caring and love and empathy and ask the question to learn about someone. That's just, that's amazing. Ken, you're awesome. You're on NBC, on all the great stations, TV stations and you do such great work in the world, so what is it that you're still struggling with today?

Kenneth Cloke: What I'm struggling with right now is how to carry what I know about conflict resolution over into political conflicts because we are being torn apart by political conflicts. Right. I'm working with different political organizations on trying to help them resolve their internal conflicts. We created a new project with a group of people called DPACE, Democracy Politics and Conflict Engagement through Mediators Beyond Borders. What we're trying to do is to at a family level where families are divided over political issues, in a community level, over immigration, attitudes towards people within the community who are considered to be outside. I'm working internationally, I'm going to be spending a month going around Europe trying to convince people that political conflicts can also be resolved. That politics fundamentally is just a social problem solving assess.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. I'm glad you said that because so then it gives me hope. Hopefully one of these days when I watch the news, I won't see all this conflict going on. Ken, what an amazing conversation. Oh, it was awesome. Thank you so much.

Kenneth Cloke: My name is Kenneth cloak. One thing I am known for is writing a book that is called Mediating Dangerously, and I am Sprinting to Success with Esmie Lawrence.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, yeah. Thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for listening to Sprinting to Success podcast. To learn more about Ken, go to EsmieLawrence.com. Thank you and have an amazing day.

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  Dr. Gleb Tsipursky short Bio:

Known as the Disaster Avoidance Expert, Dr. Gleb Tsipursky is a consultant, coach, trainer, speaker, cognitive neuroscientist, and the best-selling author of "Never Go With Your Gut: How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters" 

So, that means that we are very much reluctant to give up our place at the top of the tribal hierarchy. And that means that we will do things like hide losses, whether it's job loss, fraudulent accounting from companies, anything. We will do a lot to hide our mistakes, to hide losses, to not admit problems that we cause, not to admit messes that come from our behaviors because that causes us to lose status, lose prestige in the tribal hierarchy, be seen as losers." -Dr. Gleb Tsipursky

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Dr. Tsipursky: I thank you so much Esmie, it's a pleasure to be here and I'm doing pretty well. Thank you. I hope you're doing well too.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, I am doing awesome. Thank you so much. So tell me about some of your struggles as a child.

Dr. Tsipursky: Well, one of the biggest struggles was coming to the United States. As you can tell from my accent, I ain't from around here.

Esmie Lawrence: I ain't from around here.

Dr. Tsipursky: Exactly.

Esmie Lawrence: Where you from?

Dr. Tsipursky: Originally, I was born in Moldova, which was a small country in Eastern Europe. I was born in '81, my parents left in 1991 just as the Soviet Union was falling apart and it was really great that they came here, I'm very glad. Moldova was freed from Russian Soviet domination, so that's the time when they came here. And I'm very glad that they left because I found that later when I became an adult, Moldova, the Republic of Moldova is actually one of the least happy countries in the world. I was like, "Whoa, why is that?" I had no idea, but I didn't grow up there. I was 10 when I left. But yeah, I was very pleased that they left.

Dr. Tsipursky: So I was very happy that I came to the United States and it was really hard to transition to get into the American spirit, American culture, American norms. My parents were poor as all immigrants are when they come to United States. My mom washed people's houses for a living. My dad, we got lucky with my dad because he got a job driving a truck for an Italian bakery in New York City, so at least we always had bread that fell off the back of the truck. So that was kind of my childhood, so that was hard, that was a challenge.

Dr. Tsipursky: I mean, there were other challenges, but that was definitely one challenge. One of the things I recall and one of the things I talk about is how I was proud of my cultural heritage. I mean, many children my age who immigrated, chose to give up their accents, drop their accents, retrain themselves basically, but I was proud of my cultural heritage. It's what my parents taught me to be, so I chose not to. I found out later, when I got into what I'm doing right now, decision making, this is my area, consulting, coaching and training, researching, writing and decision making. I kind of found out that that was a dumb idea.

Dr. Tsipursky: I really should've dropped my accent because apparently what the research on this topic shows is that Americans trust people with a foreign accent less than they trust people without a foreign accent, it's just an unconscious bias. One of the dangerous judgment errors that I learned about in graduate school, already by that time, I couldn't drop my accent.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah.

Dr. Tsipursky: So, that's called accent discrimination. That's one of the many things that we need to watch out for in making good decisions.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: That was part of my childhood, getting into America and learning how to deal with this discrimination.

Esmie Lawrence: Well, I think your accent is nice.

Dr. Tsipursky: Thank you.

Esmie Lawrence: It's really sad that people will judge you according to your accent.

Dr. Tsipursky: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: Actually, I had a similar experience coming from Jamaica when I was 12 years old.

Dr. Tsipursky: About the same age.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah. I would come home crying because people didn't understand me. They'd make fun of my Jamaican accent, it was a thick Jamaican accent. So I went about trying to eradicate my Jamaican accent. Of course, there's certain words I say and it sounds Jamaican, but now I'm thinking back, I'm thinking, "Why did I even do that?" I should have been saying, "Listen, my Jamaican accent, I'm proud of it. This is part of my culture, the way I speak. So what?" But then, yeah, I try to totally get rid of it. But now, if I'm speaking to a Jamaican person, I can just start talking in that Jamaican accent, not a big deal and I'm proud of it, I'm proud of my Jamaican heritage.

Dr. Tsipursky: That's great.

Esmie Lawrence: So, I'm glad that you also are proud of it and it's okay, you know? Leave the accent because it's sexy and I love it.

Dr. Tsipursky: Thank you very much. I appreciate it, Esmie.

Esmie Lawrence: You're welcome. So go back. What age did you learn to speak English?

Dr. Tsipursky: 10. So I came here when I was 10 and that's when I was really starting to learn English.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. Right. Did it come quickly or was it a struggle?

Dr. Tsipursky: Yeah, it came pretty quickly. When you're 10, languages come pretty easily for kids. So yeah, it wasn't too difficult. I mean, I had other struggles. My parents were, how do I say this? They're not the most emotionally, socially intelligent people. They don't always make the right decisions, so they actually fought a lot and that was a difficulty of my childhood. They had a lot of conflicts, a lot of tensions, and they fought over some stupid stuff that I knew even as a kid, I knew it was not a good idea to fight about. My mom always liked nice clothing so you know she wants to buy a $90 sweater and my dad is like, "No sweaters should never cost anything over $20."

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: They would have fights over these sorts of issues all the time. The worst was, there was this one fight, my dad was a real estate agent and so he worked based on commissions, which means he had variable income. There was this one time when he hid some money from my mom, that he had made quite a lot of money. He said, he'd hid it for my mom and he bought an apartment elsewhere and he was leasing it out for a couple of years. When you found out, that was a huge, huge scandal. That was probably the biggest fight I've had them seen. It was just really, really, big.

Dr. Tsipursky: They actually, ended up separating for a while. So they lived apart. They eventually reconciled, but my mom could never really trust my dad again with his financial, really terrible financial decisions by him. That was another thing that caused me to really be very interested in why people make bad decisions and how they can make better ones.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Dr. Tsipursky: That kind of shaped me as a child in wanting to, one side was the discrimination and knowing that, "Hey, I'm not actually less trustworthy even though people perceive me to be less trustworthy." That was not great. And the other side was seeing my parents make really bad decisions that caused me to be really interested in why people make bad decisions and how can I help people make better ones?

Esmie Lawrence: Right. And of course, I can understand why your mom was upset.

Dr. Tsipursky: Yes, I can understand. I totally understand why. That was a very dumb decision by my dad.

Esmie Lawrence: It was. Just tell her that he's doing this and let her know. In a relationship you have to be open and honest.

Dr. Tsipursky: Absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: But when you hide something like that, then it's hard to trust after that.

Dr. Tsipursky: Especially money issues.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah.

Dr. Tsipursky: Money is so important and it's such a touchy subject. See, there's so many people who make bad decisions about money, including in the relationships. One of the biggest causes of divorces in this country is money, bad, misunderstandings around money.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: Yeah. So, that's a tough thing. Yeah, that was not great.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So then what were some of the struggles when you were in high school?

Dr. Tsipursky: So, high school, I had some of the similar struggles, adapting to the situation, dealing with my parents. One of the challenges I had in high school with my parents was, when they were trying to get me to become a medical doctor. So they wanted me to go to medical school and I always was passionate about, like I said, decision making. Already since that time, how do people make their decisions in historical and contemporary settings, business settings, so I really wanted to study that.

Dr. Tsipursky: There was this push and pull between them and... when you're younger or in my early years in high school, the first couple of years, I was like, "Okay, I'll become a medical doctor." But later, into high school, I was reconsidering it. So, that was always a challenge. I went to college, still thinking probably I'll become a doctor, maybe I won't. But finally, in the last year of college, is when I really decided that "Hey, becoming a doctor, it will be financially lucrative, that would be nice. But that would be the main reason that I would do it. It's just about the money and the social status, the prestige."

Dr. Tsipursky: So those are the two things that would cause me to become a medical doctor, but it wouldn't be fulfilling. It wouldn't really be my calling, my mission. And so what I was really passionate about as I increasingly understood, is decision making and how do people make decisions? I saw that if I went into medical school, I really wouldn't be satisfied. I wouldn't be fulfilled.

Dr. Tsipursky: I had great grades, I was fine getting into medical school, that's a tough thing to do, but it would be using some of the techniques that I later learned and refined. I saw that would be a really bad decision for my future self, the future that I wanted to have for myself. So that's what caused me to eventually not go into medical school and go into what I'm doing right now, studying decision making and teaching it.

Esmie Lawrence: So, you got your degrees, you have your masters too, right?

Dr. Tsipursky: I have my PhD.

Esmie Lawrence: You have a PhD. What did you study?

Dr. Tsipursky: The history of behavioral science. It's the topic of how do we make decisions in historical and contemporary settings? Specifically, I was focusing on, and I'm focusing on right now, on decisions in economic settings. How do we make financial decisions? Seeing my parents make bad decisions.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: Also, when I was growing up, it was around the time of the dot-com boom and bust. So I was born in '81, I was 19 in 1999 when the tech leaders were partying like it's 1999.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Dr. Tsipursky: For those who remember the Prince song.

Esmie Lawrence: Prince song. I love it.

Dr. Tsipursky: Maybe it ages me, I don't know. It was a time when a lot of money was invested into the dot-coms. Just a couple of years later, they all went bust. Webvan, Pets.com, buda.com, nobody remembers these because they all went bust, but they were worth billions and billions of dollars in their own time. I saw really big, prominent business leaders be the heroes in the pages of the Wall Street Journal in 1999 and then just a couple of years later, they're the zeroes.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: So it's like, okay, people make really bad decisions, especially when the leaders in Enron, WorldCom, Tyco made terrible decisions to hide their losses using fraudulent accounting methods. That was clearly terrible decision making. They went to jail, it couldn't have lasted more than a year or two until it was discovered and then they went to jail. They knew that it would be discovered, but they used these terrible decisions to try to hide their losses.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: So I can see that even very prominent leaders make terrible decisions and that's costly. Hurts a lot of people when they make these decisions. My value set is utilitarian, wanting the most good for the most number and that's why I wanted to see what I could do to address these bad decisions.

Esmie Lawrence: But why do people hide losses, like those big corporations and affected so many millions of people because they lied.

Dr. Tsipursky: Yeah, yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: So, why did they do that? Is there one common denominator?

Dr. Tsipursky: You know why people find losses? Yes, there is. People hide losses, not only for these top business leaders, but you see a lot of people who get fired from their jobs, leave their jobs, they don't tell their spouses, they don't tell their friends. They just pretend to go to their jobs and keep doing it, or they, whatever happens, people hide their losses a lot.

Dr. Tsipursky: And here's the reason, what I learned about this. You can see the Bernie Ebbers who was the leader at Enron, hiding their losses for a very primal, natural, instinctive reason. It has to do with how we make our decisions. Our decisions are shaped about 80% to 90% by our emotions. That's where decisions come from. They're very much shaped by our emotions, if we let our emotions shape them, which is what we do, because the main advice that we get in decision making is go with your gut. Horrible advice. Terrible advice to go with your gut but that's the advice that people give.

Dr. Tsipursky: So, when people get that advice, they let their emotions shape their decisions and our emotions are actually, not adapted for the modern business environment, professional environment. They're not adapted for the modern world at all, they're adapted for the Savanna environment when we were hunters and foragers living in small tribes of 15 people to 150 people. So, tribalism was very important to us and there are two really important aspects of tribalism here.

Dr. Tsipursky: I talked about my accent. So, the accent has to do with the fact that we like people who are like us, who are similar to us and we don't like people who are not like us, who are not part of our tribe. And the accent of course indicates that I'm not part of the mainstream American tribe. Right? Same thing with looks, appearance, anything, religion, sexuality, other forms of discrimination, anything that results from tribalism where it was really important for our ancestors to be tribal, otherwise, they would be kicked out of the tribe and they would die. So, that was one aspect of tribalism.

Dr. Tsipursky: Now, the other aspect of tribalism has to do with hiding losses. Has to do with climbing to the top of the tribal hierarchy. That was very important for getting resources and for spreading our genes, reproducing. We are the descendants of those people who were the best at climbing to the top of the tribal hierarchy. And those were the best at maintaining tribalism within their own tribe.

Dr. Tsipursky: So, that means that we are very much reluctant to give up our place at the top of the tribal hierarchy. And that means that we will do things like hide losses, whether it's job loss, fraudulent accounting from companies, anything. We will do a lot to hide our mistakes, to hide losses, to not admit problems that we cause, not to admit messes that come from our behaviors because that causes us to lose status, lose prestige in the tribal hierarchy, be seen as losers.

Dr. Tsipursky: I mean, my training, consulting, coaching is mostly with business leaders and when I see business leaders, one of their biggest fears when I talk to them is, being seen as losers, being seen as failures. It's an incredibly powerful driver. It's more powerful than profits.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Dr. Tsipursky: This kind of social status, prestige, not wanting to be seen as a loser is incredibly important for them. So this emotion greatly, this fear of being seen as a loser, as a failure, is one of its negative consequences and there are many, is that they hide losses and including through fraudulent accounting and not telling their friends when they lose jobs, not telling their wives and so on.

Esmie Lawrence: But eventually, we find out anyways.

Dr. Tsipursky: That's right.

Esmie Lawrence: Look at Bernie Madoff, Enron.

Dr. Tsipursky: That's right.

Esmie Lawrence: We always-

Dr. Tsipursky: We do.

Esmie Lawrence: ... end up finding out we do always end up finding out because it can't go on forever.

Dr. Tsipursky: It can't. But you see that it could repeatedly happen. I mean, look what happened with Boeing. Just right now, the CEO of Boeing was fired just a couple of days ago for Boeing producing a plane that was clearly unsafe and the CEO knew it was unsafe. We now have internal documents from Boeing showing that there were a lot of whistleblowers within Boeing saying, "Hey, this plane's not saved. Don't produce it, don't go forward with it." But they went forward with it, they produce it, even after the first crash. They weren't willing to acknowledge that there was a problem.

Esmie Lawrence: Even at the safety of the client? Even at the safety of the public? They didn't care?

Dr. Tsipursky: Yep, 346 people. And that comes from an emotional place. It's not that they didn't care. It's about what they care about more. They cared more about not suffering the short-term losses of prestige, reputation. That's what the CEO of Boeing cared about. That's what the Boeing leadership cared about is, they would suffer a lot of losses in their reputation, their prestige, even though he suffered much more now that he's fired and that he's let go. People don't think about that. And that was one of the other really bad problems about our emotions. That when we go with our gut, when we trust our intuitions. Our intuitions, our gut reactions, are incredibly short-term oriented. This is why people eat, they go and they think they'll eat one scoop of ice cream from a gallon, and then they end up eating the whole gallon.

Dr. Tsipursky: Right? Never happened to me. Right? You think, I'll get a dozen donuts. Right? They're sold by a dozen. People are like, "Oh, whatever, I want a donut but I'll get a dozen because it's cheaper." And then they end up eating the whole dozen donuts.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Dr. Tsipursky: This is what happens because we don't, and we regret it. The next day, we might regret it as soon as we see that empty donut box or the empty canister of ice cream.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: But we don't think about the long-term consequence. We don't feel, our gut intuition doesn't feel the long-term consequences. Our gut intuition feels the short-term pain of acknowledging loss, so acknowledging failure. It feels the short-term pain of not eating the 11 remaining donuts or we're not eating the rest of the gallon of ice cream. It doesn't recognize the longer term pain of whether it's weight gain and guilt and frustration or whether it's being fired and all the damages that are caused.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Dr. Tsipursky: Or my dad talking to my mom and having the blow-out fight and separation of hiding the money. That is not what people think about, because our gut intuitions, our gut reactions, they follow their gut, they just do what feels natural, comfortable, intuitive, and they don't realize that these short-term gains that they're getting come at the price of much higher long-term losses.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Is this the same thing as cognitive bias?

Dr. Tsipursky: Right. This is one form of cognitive bias. So cognitive biases are the specific dangerous judgment errors, and that's what my book, Never Go With Your Gut, How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters. It's about the most dangerous judgment errors that we make, cognitive biases in business, professional settings in your career, whatnot. Looking at the 30 most dangerous judgment errors and this judgment error is called, there are two judgment errors that I've talked about already.

Dr. Tsipursky: One's called loss aversion, where we're very averse to losses. We really don't want to lose and we are willing to sacrifice much higher gains for these losses. That's one, and the other one that's called hyperbolic discounting, where we discount the future. It's a fancy name for the term, that we discount the future, greatly. We really don't accept much. We don't think about the long-term losses that are coming to us from eating the ice cream, meeting the donuts, hiding the money, and it can come in many ways.

Dr. Tsipursky: A lot of people, for example, stay in dead end jobs for way too long when they should be leaving those jobs and they should be finding a better job because it causes a short-term pain for them to do a job search. It's a lot of hassle. It's a lot of effort. There's a lot of rejection. Especially, with the tribal aspect of things, people don't like rejection, so they stay in dead end jobs.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: Same thing for relationships. My next book, The Blind Spots Between Us, which will come out in April 2020, is about relationships. One of the problems of romantic relationships is that we stay in the relationships that aren't good for us for way too long because we don't want to suffer the short-term pain of separation for the long-term gain of not suffering in the relationship that's bad for us.

Esmie Lawrence: So then how do you teach your clients to move past all these, live in the present? And to be able to focus on the future with honesty and integrity?

Dr. Tsipursky: One of the most important things to do is, I teach certain decision making techniques that they can apply to any decision and there's going to be two techniques that are really important to learn. One is for bigger choices, major choices, whether it's finding the CEO for your company or finding a significant other or launching a major project, moving to a new city, whatever you want to do, launching a product, whatever you want to do. It's a major project, it's a major endeavor. The other one is for everyday choices, smaller everyday things.

Dr. Tsipursky: Now, the first one is for things that you want to maximize the outcomes, whatever the outcomes are for you, happiness in your relationships or what I focus on in the book is, the bottom line kind of profit, and that's, never go with your gut. Now, the other technique that we shall briefly talk through right now is, a technique for everyday decisions. It's not designed to maximize the outcome of the decision. It's designed to prevent you from screwing up.

Esmie Lawrence: That's good to know. We want to know that.

Dr. Tsipursky: Yes, yes. It's designed to prevent you from failing and a lot of decisions, you just need to make them good enough. You don't need to make them perfect, and so this is for good enough decisions. So, you ask yourself five questions about any decision that you don't want to screw up. First question, what information did I not yet fully consider? Again, what evidence didn't I take into account? This question is very important because a number of the dangerous judgment errors, cognitive biases that we have in our heads, cause us to be uncomfortable looking for information that doesn't confirm our beliefs. We have really liked information that causes us to feel like we're right.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Exactly.

Dr. Tsipursky: We like that information, it's pleasant, it's good, it feels comfortable, our gut intuitions like that. So, if you go with your gut, you're only going to look at information that makes you comfortable. You have to go against your comfort zone. You have to go against your gut to look at information that makes you uncomfortable, and this question is designed to help you do that. So look at important information that is uncomfortable or that goes against your preferred choice. It goes against your preferred option. If you can't, try to disconfirm your preferred option, if you can, that's great, it's more likely to be right, but you want to make sure to do that.

Dr. Tsipursky: Second question, what dangerous judgments are there? So cognitive biases that are not yet considered? There are a number of cognitive biases that will be relevant to each choice. So you want to learn about all of these cognitive biases and there's a list of them in Wikipedia, over a hundred cognitive biases, so you can check that out. In my book, Never Go With Your Gut, How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Business Disasters, which is right there. I looked at the 30 most dangerous ones for professional careers for businesses and how to address them effectively.

Dr. Tsipursky: Then third one, what would a trusted and objective advisor suggest you do? Think about someone who could be a trusted and objective advisor to you. What would they suggest you do in this situation? You know, when you give your friend advice, you give much better advice than the kind of decisions you take yourself because you could look externally at the situation. Things that your friend doesn't see, you could probably have that in your experience. So think of someone who is a good friend to you and could be objective and who would be trusted and good on the topic. Think about as Esmie, think about anyone who you would trust to give you good advice.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: What would they tell you? The little angel on your shoulder? What would they tell you?

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Dr. Tsipursky: You get about 50% of the benefit just by asking this question and of course you can get the other 50% of the benefits by calling this person or if you're a millennial, texting this person. Next, fourth question. How have I addressed all the ways this could fail? Think about all the ways as this decision could fail. In order to do that, first of all, imagine that it completely failed, whatever you're doing, whatever you want to do, whether it's launching a product, going to a meeting, writing an important email, asking your boss for a raise, or getting a new client, imagine that it completely failed. Think about all the reasons for why it failed, all the reasons for failure, and then try to see what you can do in advance to address them.

Dr. Tsipursky: So if you're trying to start on your business, maybe you didn't research the market enough. If you're launching a new product, maybe you haven't thought about your logistics thoroughly. If you're moving to a new city, maybe you haven't explored what the climate conditions, whatever, are in that city. So try to address those problems in advance, whatever you might not have addressed.

Dr. Tsipursky: And then the other aspect of things is, unexpected things that might come up. Think about what would happen if something unexpected came up that you didn't consider. If you're launching a product, think about what would happen if your competitor launched a product similar to yours at the same time? What would you do in that situation? You want to create a plan, create a plan, contingency plan. Because if you don't have a plan, when the problem arises, you'll be running around like a chicken without your head. But, if you have a plan, you know what to do. So that's the fourth question.

Dr. Tsipursky: And finally, what new evidence would cause me to change my mind? What would cause you to reconsider your decision? It's very hard for us to change our mind when we're in the heat of the moment, implementing the decision, whatever it may be, whether I were moving to a new city, deciding on a relationship, hiring a new person, launching your product. But if you decide in advance that, "Hey, these are the indicators that would show me that this is a bad decision or this is something that I really should reconsider." That is going to be very helpful for you to actually revise your options, your choices, especially if it's a group decision.

Dr. Tsipursky: So for example, in a business relationship or any other relationship, one of the things I make sure to do is not consider the relationship stable until I've had my first conflict with the person involved. Because you'll eventually you'll have a conflict but if you rely on the relationship too much before you have a conflict and you find out that the person is not able to deal with conflicts, that's not really going to be a healthy long-term relationship, business relationship, or any other for you. So you want to make sure to be able to do that. And that's an example you can do anything for. In the product launch you can say, "If the product doesn't hit 450,000 within the first six months, then I'll need to seriously reevaluate the situation." That's another example.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Dr. Tsipursky: So these five questions are very easy to ask. It just takes you a couple of minutes to ask yourself these questions, but it will save you a lot of stress. Many, many hours of recovering from problems. Many, many thousands or millions of dollars of recovery.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah, Dr. Gleb, those are great questions. If you ask yourself those questions, you will evert disasters in your personal life, in your business, whatever it is that you do because they're great questions. And those questions are in your book, right? Is that correct?

Dr. Tsipursky: They are. So they are in the introduction of my book and in the rest of the book talks about applying these questions and other techniques about how to avoid dangerous judgment errors. And those are very helpful questions to ask. Very helpful, easy techniques that anyone can use to quickly and effectively address these problems that are unfortunately, part of how our brain is wired due to our evolutionary biology.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Oh, okay. So, Dr. Gleb, I would like for you to go back in time, with all the knowledge you have now and talk to your say, seven year old self. What words of wisdom would you give yourself?

Dr. Tsipursky: Well, I'd tell myself to probably drop the accent, that's one. Oh, gosh, there there are a ton of things that I would have changed about my younger self if I knew it. I probably have focused much more on social intelligence and emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence has to do with emotional self-awareness and self-management. Social intelligence has to do with understanding, feel how other people feel and being able to influence your relationship with them and influence those other people. Those are skills I've developed when I was in my early 30s. Unfortunately, they would have been so helpful to me when I was young.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah.

Dr. Tsipursky: We are so influenced by our emotions. Like I said before, I didn't realize that when I was a kid and there were a lot of dumb decisions I made, bad decisions I made, when I was a kid that I didn't realize. I didn't know what I didn't know. So I would have learned, it would've been hard to learn about cognitive biases when I was seven, maybe when I was 12, I could learn about them. But then when I'm seven I could still learn about emotional awareness and emotional management and social awareness and social management, this emotional intelligence, social intelligence, very useful skills. And I wish I could have conveyed them to my seven year old self and to my 12 year old self, I would have taught about cognitive biases and these decision making techniques that I'm talking about.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. And so I would really like for you to... what I want to say to you, your accent is good and if people don't trust you because of the accent, well, maybe you don't need to work with them. So you're a very successful person.

Dr. Tsipursky: Thank you.

Esmie Lawrence: But what is it that you're struggling with now?

Dr. Tsipursky: What I really want to develop right now, what I'm focusing on developing right now, is my skill in storytelling. So stories are incredibly important for people to understand and appreciate information, but they're not intuitive to me because I am in this way, I'm not neuro-typical, I'm not like the average bear out there. I don't appreciate stories as much as the average person. I'm much more oriented toward more technical information, more technical ways. So I'm more of a broad picture person. I just want kind of the model, the framework, the theory, but I'm not typical in that way. So I want to be able to better communicate to people who are not like me, who are not as analytical and who are less oriented toward this broad picture perspective and who want more stories. So this is the skill that I'm working on developing right now, effective storytelling.

Esmie Lawrence: Awesome. And so what would you like to share with our audience today?

Dr. Tsipursky: Well, I'd like to share that they can check out my book. Never Go With Your Gut, How Pioneering Leaders Make the Best Decisions and Avoid Businesses Disasters in any physical book store anywhere, and by a traditional business publisher called Career Press and of course Amazon, Barnes & Noble online and so on. You can check out my information at disasteravoidanceexperts.com. Again, disasteravoidanceexperts.com videos, blogs, various podcasts and so on. Consulting, coaching, speaking, training, if you want to check that out.

Dr. Tsipursky: Now you can get a free eight module video-based course, so eight video-based modules at disasteravoidanceexperts.com/subscribe. Again, disasteravoidanceexperts.com/subscribe. It's called The Wise Decision Maker course. It's essentially decision making 101, contains all the essential information that you need to help yourself make better decisions. I'm active on LinkedIn. You can connect with me there. Gleb Tsipursky, Dr. Gleb Tsipursky. G-L-E-B. T-S-I-P-U-R-S-K-Y. Dr. Gleb Tsipursky. Our gut intuitions are going to lead us in the wrong direction very often, and you need to use simple, effective and counter-intuitive techniques to make sure that you actually succeed in life. And I'm Sprinting to Success with Esmie Lawrence.

Esmie Lawrence: Dr. Gleb, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us today. So to learn more about Dr. Gleb, you can go to esmielawrence.com. Thank you for listening and have an amazing day.

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Jackie's Bio

As a resilience coach, I use my Narrative Therapy training to assist people in developing skills to successfully recover from adversity and change.

"I think the one thing I'd love for people to know, is that really, the resources in your life, your faith, your friends, your health, the interests that you have that make you unique in this world. That is your gift. It's your presence. When you walk in a room, you can light it up, or you can just bring it a heavy presence into it and it's your choice. And you get to choose how you want to live it. And I'd love to encourage you to choose to love it well." -Jackie Sheridan

Contact Jackie: 

Website: https://sheridanjackie.wixsite.com/sheridanstrategy

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackiesheridan/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdz9p3nsrJNohoPhbeqi3ZQ/videos?view_as=subscriber

Contact Esmie:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

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Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Show notes:

Esmie Lawrence: Welcome. This episode is sponsored by my Co-author Course. I am looking for 10 to 16 writers for the book, step Into Your Power. You write your story, or I will interview you and turn your interview into your story. Use your story, only 4,000 words, to inspire others, speak on stage, do workshops or become an authority. Contact Esmie today at esmielawrence.com. And now my guest is a resilient coach. She uses narrative therapy training to assist people in developing skills to successfully recover from adversity and change. Welcome, Jackie Sheridan.

Esmie Lawrence: Jackie, thank you so much for agreeing to talk with us on Sprinting to Success Podcast. Welcome.

J. Sheridan: Hi, Esmie. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for our time today.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, so am I. So I hear an accent. Where are you from?

J. Sheridan: from originally from South Africa. I was born in Zimbabwe, but raised in South Africa.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, neat. Okay. Okay. You know, later on we can talk about South Africa. I would love to hear about that. Okay. So what I would like to ask you is to go back to some of the struggles you've had as a child.

J. Sheridan: So being an immigrant child was really difficult. My family, moved from Zimbabwe to a very small, from the city actually, to a small farming community that spoke a predominantly Afrikaans language, and it was a huge adjustment. I didn't fit in with the English kids, or with the Afrikaans kids. And it was a lot of difficulty of navigating, trying to get on and off the school bus without speaking the language. Yeah, it was quite a challenging time.

Esmie Lawrence: So then did you learn to speak the language, eventually?

J. Sheridan: I'm completely fluent. I read, write, and speak it.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that is so good. So that's a success as a child. Now, as a teenager, what were some of the challenges you had in your life?

J. Sheridan: I had a car accident when I was 17 years old, with a drunk driver. And then when I was 19 I lost my best friend in a car accident to a drunk driver. So those were pretty, pretty big changes in my life. Those events.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So you lost your best friend. I mean, so how did that affect your life?

J. Sheridan: I was really young, and it was very, very painful. We spoke every single day on the phone. We were just best friends. And it was quite an adjustment to go and just not... To do life without them being there. But I have to say that it's, in a way, it's been one of the best experiences in my life because I had to then reconcile the fact, because I tried to push all my friends away because I didn't... It hurt so much. I was like, if I lose you had it'll hurt so much more. And then I realized that you can't go through life pushing people away in the fear that you're going to lose them. You need to just love them while you can. And so it's helped me to really embrace friendships with people too. Whether I'm going to know you for six months, or six years, or 16,000 years, I want to try and be a great friend to you when I can.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. And you know what? That's really awesome, you say that Jackie. Because I mean we're all going to die. And so you can't push people away because you're afraid they're going to die. And so it's embrace it and enjoy them while they're still alive.

J. Sheridan: Yes, absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: I love that. So now go on. So we'll just move forward to challenges you've had as an adult.

J. Sheridan: I think that the biggest challenge is being an adult.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah, that's right. Do we ever grow up?

J. Sheridan: I think it's just being an adult. Knowing that there's so much responsibilities, but I mean with the bad comes the good. I can't say that I... There's being severe trauma, and that I do know that's the last few years of raising my teenage daughters, who have mental illness, and that was really challenging. I never expected it to be as difficult as as it was. But we got through it, we survived and now we're rebuilding those relationships.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So can you tell us the challenges of raising a child with mental health issues?

J. Sheridan: I can't speak for everybody's experience, because I do have to acknowledge that my training in Narrative Therapy really helped me get through it. I could understand the dynamics of the mental illness, but I could also grasp... I had tools in my toolbox that helped me build resilience. Long before I actually got to that. So when I was in the midst of it, and dealing with the crisis after crisis situation that we went through, I didn't fall apart. I was able to sort of just keep bouncing back, and keep going on with normal life as best as I could, under the situation.

Esmie Lawrence: When did you find out that your daughter had mental health issues?

J. Sheridan: She started in high school, so it was bad five or six months into our high school career. That she started really just struggling with everything, and it just sort of spiraled out of control from there.

Esmie Lawrence: So what do you mean spiral out of control? Explain. Like expand on that.

J. Sheridan: I would say it started off as just depression, and then the depression became suicide attempts. Suicide attempts became drug use because she just wanted to numb all the pain. She just didn't know how to cope with everything and so it just sort of really got out of control in that sense.

Esmie Lawrence: And so [inaudible 00:07:19] those hardship, where did you find resilience? Like how did you end up becoming resilient and did it start off right away? Or did you have to learn, or grow into it.

J. Sheridan: I think that I naturally have resilience. I think that being an immigrant as a kid allowed me to have that life experience, that nothing is lasting. Everything can be really bad, but it can get really good again afterwards. And so having that mindset going into it, I keep thinking we'll get through this. It'll just be another year or so. And it ended up lasting for five years, but... I think the hope that I knew it was going to get better. I'm also taking care of myself using my resilience skills, being aware of my toolbox. Resources like my friends, my faith, healthy living, my work. There was so many other aspects to my life. That's this mental illness in our home was not the dominant story.

Esmie Lawrence: Right now how did your faith help build resilience?

J. Sheridan: I think it starts with daily small habits of learning to respond to little situations in life rather than a big crisis situation. When we're sitting in traffic and somebody cuts us off, we have a choice. We can choose whether we want to react, or whether we want to respond. And every time we choose to respond, in the way that we speak, in the way that we act just in everyday situations, it gives us the power that when we're in a crisis situation, we can just take a deep breath and then choose to respond rather than react.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that is actually some nuggets you're dropping on our audience. Do they instead of being reactive, choose how you're going to respond. Ladies and gentlemen, choose how you're going to respond in the small things. Because when the crisis comes along, it'll become almost automatic. Is that correct Jackie?

J. Sheridan: Yes, absolutely.

Esmie Lawrence: All right. So tell us, so what is your passion, now?

J. Sheridan: So, through all of this, I realized that so many people don't have resilience skills. So many people like dealing with so much in life and they just feel overwhelmed. They feel like they can't make a choice, that they don't have any choices to them because everything in life is just such a mace around them. And one of the things that I have learnt as a narrative therapist coach, is that the problem is actually really small. And when we can start to get our perspective in order, we can turn our problems into opportunities for growth.

J. Sheridan: And so that's where my passion comes from. Is that I love to help people understand that base strengths, the inner strengths that they have, these resources that they have in their friendships, their work, their interests, their hobbies, the things that they love doing, that enriched their mind so much bigger than that little problem. And one of the base questions I love asking people is, "Is this problem always evident in your life?" So do you have this problem 24/7, seven days a week? Can you see this problem every hour of every day? And normally you see this little spark going off in their mind, as they go, "No, this problem is not always there. It's not there when I'm at work, it's not there when I'm at home, it's not there when I'm doing this with my friend." Once we realized that the problem doesn't have complete control, then you can start from a new perspective.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So yeah. So then it's funny because as you said that time, the problem... Is when you have problems with your life, is it always there? And of course not. Cause you know what life is a journey, and we all know that. And some days it's up, and some days it's down. And so then you put your problems into perspective, and if we can look at it that way, is that what narrative therapy, is that what that is?

J. Sheridan: So the thing is, is that what we do is we help people to re author their story, to tell the story that they want. So that they have the bigger story than the problem in their life.

Esmie Lawrence: And how would you get people to re author their story?

J. Sheridan: So it's quite a... It's hard to explain it in theory. It's a... Because it's a practical thing. So you are the author of your own story. You know your story the best and I couldn't tell you your story. So I know that you're a mother of three, you're a Canadian Olympic sprint star who has a silver medal. These are things I know about you. But that's not your story, because your story is so much bigger than that. I don't know anything about what you like, what you dislike. I don't know the things that make you afraid. I don't know if you sleep well at night. I know nothing about your life, your habits and that. You know that story and you know the stories within each of those stories. So what are we try and do, is we help people understand that their stories... We help them identify when the problem first came into their lives, and then we start to explore all the other stories of the life.

J. Sheridan: So your, to use a really horrible example, but one of that's probably the best. Is people having... In normal everyday language people would say you're an alcoholic. I narrative therapy, we say that you're a person with a negative relationship to alcohol. So what we do is we help you under... We'd ask you, when do you first notice that your relationship with alcohol started becoming a problem? When it started turning negative. And then we just understand the dynamics of it so that we know that it wasn't always present. It had a starting point, and because it has a starting point, we can give it an ending point. We can change that relationship.

J. Sheridan: And we also then explore, so before this alcohol became a negative relationship in your life, can you tell me about the positive relationships that you had previous to that? And you can start talking about, "Oh, I really loved writing every day. I really enjoyed interacting with my friends, going shopping with my girlfriends, having lunch with my family". You can share all these aspects of your life that empowered you. And once you can can go back and remember a time when you felt empowered, it allows you then to start writing the story of how you want to be empowered in the future without the presence of... And you can't without the presence of alcohol because you're just going to change that relationship. But without that relationship being a dominant relationship in your life.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Right. So you're the author of your story, and you can rewrite it anytime you want.

J. Sheridan: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: So if somebody comes to you, and they have limiting beliefs, they have no confidence, they don't believe in themselves. What the first, second, third step? What would you do with them?

J. Sheridan: I would ask them, what's one thing that you do well, just one thing. Even if it's cooking dinner well every single night. If it's getting out of bed, and making your bed every day, and you do that well, that's one thing you do well. And so build on that. What's one other thing that you do well and once you start to focus on just one or two things that you do very well, no matter how simple they are. If you're doing them every single day, it tells me that there's something in you that is good. That's doing well. And you can build confidence from that.

J. Sheridan: So what is it that allows you to get up every day and make your bed well? And how can you use that in other aspects of your life? And then to just slowly transform that story, a little bit every single day. And I think that the key is not to try and have a big picture, but to have a small picture that keeps getting, I like to say colored in. That you just color in those little areas a little more each day until you get a beautiful big collage that you want your life to reflect.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So then they start with a little things, and then color in something positive, and then just get a bigger and bigger and bigger. Because if you start looking for what's your passion? What do you love to do in life? They'll like, "I have nothing". I have a friend that I said, "What do you like to do?" I don't like to do anything. Like nothing. I said, "Well you must be passionate about something?" And she says, "No, I'm not passionate about anything". So when people come to you and they have no desire, they have lost the zest for life, what do you do?

J. Sheridan: I think passion can be quite a hot and cold thing. Exactly as you said. And so, and in narrative terms, we wouldn't ask that. We rather ask that, what are the things that that bring joy into your life? So what is something that you enjoy doing? And very often if people have been through severe depression, there's very little that they enjoy. But there will be days where the depression is not overwhelming for them. And so if you can say to them, "On a day when you're not feeling overwhelmed by depression, or depression is not a dominant story in your day, what are the things that you would like to do?" And it can be something simple like going for a walk outside, having a cup of coffee with a friend, reading a book. And just introducing just small little pleasures into people's life.

J. Sheridan: And as they have more of those little experiences, they will want to have more of those experiences. And again it's about taking small steps rather than these big things. Like are you going to change the world? Everyone's going to run away. But if you can say, "What's one thing you really enjoy doing?" So I came out of ministry feeding very tired, and just exhausted dealing with my family and dealing with the demands of ministry.

J. Sheridan: And I sat with a coach and he said to me, what's one place that you enjoy being? And I said, "The library." And he's like, "The library?" I said, "Ever since I was a teenager, if I need to get away from everything, I go hide in the library." And so he said, "Why don't you go and take a part time job in the library?" And I did. And so for the past year I've been working part time in the library, and it's been such a happy place for me. And it's been a place where I could actually find passions again because being around books just inspires me. And it inspires me to try new things and learn new things. And so slowly the passion has come back because of that. So my advice is take something that you enjoy or a place that you enjoy being in and just try and find a way to incorporate it in your daily life.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. And the library, that would be great, because surrounded by all those books, I would be in heaven. Because I love books. Right. So you said you were in the ministry, so explain a little bit more. How long were you in the ministry for, and why was it challenging?

J. Sheridan: So I, in my early twenties I started volunteering in a church and just always been involved in mentoring people, in leadership development, in growing people in these spiritual journeys. Just always been a passion of mine. And then eventually God called me into full time ministry and I kind of went, "No, I don't know. This is not... I'm not quite the minister type. I'm a little rough around the edges." And he said, no, I think you're the right person. So when I said yes and we worked... I was talking to my team at my Pastor's, back in South Africa. We were starting the process, and at the same time a paperwork for Canada came through. So we stopped that and when I arrived in Canada, I just made this decision. God, if I'm meant to be in full time ministry, just create a position. And he did. And four months of us being in Canada, I stepped into a full time ministry position, and I was there for five years. And during that time I got my studies behind me. My theological studies. And then we moved to Markham.

J. Sheridan: I finished up a year more studies. I did some advanced courses that I wanted to take at Toronto University. And then I stepped into another ministry role, which... It was just a little bit too much for me, given my demands. The ministry role that I'd had previously, I did most of it from home. And this was being in the office from nine in the morning until five. Being on call on Saturdays and Sundays. And it was just a lot for me. Trying to juggle my family's mental illness, and be a mom and, and still be a pastor.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So you're being pulled in many different directions.

J. Sheridan: Yes.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. My sister and my brother-in-law, they're both pastors and I see how they give so much.

J. Sheridan: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: You know, they give to their family, give to the ministry, and so sometimes I go and, "Well, who's going to fill their cup?" Because they're giving so much. Do you find the same way where you're giving so much and sometimes they end up, you know, have nothing to give?

J. Sheridan: You know, I'll be honest with you that, up until this last position. I had never found that I've got very good boundaries. I stepped into a church where the boundaries were not very clear. I struggled to keep those boundaries in place, and the more I tried to, I found that it was just a my own personal struggle. I'm not assertive enough sometimes in that role. With the large team. It had been the first time that I'd been with so many pastors on our... I think there was 16 pastas on our pastoral team. Just a high demand, big, large congregation. And I thought that I was up for the challenges, but then I realized I just... If I had probably spent more time at home, and got my boundaries in place on my personal front, I probably would've handled the demands of ministry better.

J. Sheridan: My previous congregation, I was very fortunate in that people... As much as I gave, people gave back to me. And so I, although it took a lot out of me, I'd also like I was continually being fed from one lot of people, while other people drained me. And I had very good boundaries in place. I was able to negotiate with the church, the hours that I worked, and the conditions that I worked. And so I worked really hard, but I also worked really well, if that makes sense. And so I, you know, it's difficult. I think when I stepped into this role, people kept saying to me how do we make this better for you? And it was just a learning curve. Of trying to, sometimes you thrive in some environments, and sometimes you just don't thrive.

J. Sheridan: And it wasn't that the environment was bad, it just that it was the wrong environment for me, dealing with my family's issues. When you go and you leave home at 8:30 in the morning or nine o'clock in the morning to get to church for meetings, and then it's a full day. And then you've got ministry youth groups in the evening. And you walk home, again home at 10:30 at night, and then you're dealing with ambulances and sitting in the hospital overnight. You know that those kind of things drain you. And it's not the church, it's not the people in the church. It's not the work that you're doing, it's just everything, all lumped together, that kind of. It's a lot.

Esmie Lawrence: So how do you decrease stress in your life when all these things together, and you have to deal with it? So how do you decreased stress so that you can actually deal with all these issues?

J. Sheridan: So I am... My background in South Africa is Methodist. I'm from the Methodist Church, and the Methodists are very interdiscipline loving. And it works for me. I think that's why I'm a good Methodist. I get up every morning, first thing in the morning, I spend time with God. And that is my energy [inaudible 00:24:17] where I plug in. It's where I'm able to share everything that's going on in my life. It's where I can deal with life honestly and openly. Be as weak as I need to be. I get all the strength that I need for the day. Find a peace that I need. Yeah. So that's my go to in life. And reading books as well. It's my escape. When life gets a bit much, then I have to be honest that I tend to escape into fantasy world, and enjoy just being elsewhere for a little while.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. You know? And I really believe that in your life you've got to put God first. Because without God, we're nothing. You know? So when you wake up in the morning, you got to be thankful, and pray for guidance. I always say to God, help me to be... Give me wisdom. Because I mean... And lead my path. Because so many times I will go off the path and I get lost. And I said like, God, help me get back on the path. How did I end up here? So I really believe that God has to be first, and number one in your life. Because he guides. Allow him to guide you and protect you, and I'm glad you said that. You wake up in the morning and you spend time with God.

J. Sheridan: Yeah, yeah. And you need prayer. You need your Bible, you need other people in fellowship with you as well. So my best friend is fantastic. Her and I send scripture verses to each other. And it's funny. Like she'll send something to me, and it's just echoes what I'd read in scripture that morning on my own. And I just know it's God's saying yes, keep going or keep hanging in there.

Esmie Lawrence: That's right. Keep hanging in there. Keep going. Because I will find a way for you. It will all work out. So I would like you for... For you to, with all the knowledge and wisdom that you have, and the resiliency that you have now, go back and talk to your young self. What words of wisdom would you tell your young self so she can believe in herself?

J. Sheridan: I think I've always kind of believed in myself. I don't... I think I've always kind of believed in myself, because of my faith. I think I was 10 or 11 years old when I first prayed for somebody else to come into faith at a camp. I always been what they call a wise old soul. Jesus has been my best friend. And so for me too, I would just keep saying continue that friendship with Jesus. He is your best friend. He's the most consistent thing that's going to be in your lif., You can lose everything, but you can't lose him. So I think that's what I would just say to myself. What I've always said to myself is, Jesus is your best friend and he's never going to leave you.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Like have a little talk. The song says, have a little talk with Jesus. Tell him all about your troubles. So you've been doing that from your little, all the way up till this point in your life?

J. Sheridan: Yup.

Esmie Lawrence: So what would you like to share with our audience today?

J. Sheridan: I think the one thing I'd love for people to know, is that really, the resources in your life, your faith, your friends, your health, the interests that you have that make you unique in this world. That is your gift. It's your presence. When you walk in a room, you can light it up, or you can just bring it a heavy presence into it and it's your choice. And you get to choose how you want to live it. And I'd love to encourage you to choose to love it well. Love it the way you were mean to love it. When you were a toddler, I'm pretty sure your parents fussed and fretted over whether you were going to walk and talk, and eat your veggies, and grow up to be strong. And yet you did everything. I mean, you even learned the alphabet, which your parents thought would be impossible. And you did it in your own way, and in your own time. And just to be aware of that. That you're going to love life in your own way, and in your own time. And enjoy it.

Esmie Lawrence: Jackie, I love that light up the room because we are... We came here to be great. And God wants us to step into our destiny, and step into our power and share our life with the world. And just be happy and joyful. So ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us today, and sprinting to success with Jackie. And you can learn more about Jackie on esmielawrence.com

J. Sheridan: Esmie, thank you so much for having me here on sprinting to success. This has been so great. This is Jackie from Sheridan Strategy, and we're going to sprint you to success.

Esmie Lawrence: Yay. Thank you Jackie. I love that. Awesome.

Wendy Kier

I mentor committed female entrepreneurs who are established in the marketplace, have a message that makes an IMPACT, and are marketing their business online but are struggling to attract a flow of premium clients. I coach them to confidently step into their visibility, reach a wider audience, and enrol premium clients who will willingly pay £2,000+ £10,000+ to work with them giving them flexibility, freedom and income in a way that is easy fun and feminine.

"I think it's what has come out of this for me in terms of this conversation is it's about being conscious. It's about being fully responsible for the decisions you're making rather than just going on autopilot because you have the power to change things, but you have to wake up a little bit to realize that actually you can change things, that things can be very different for you. Statistically, given my background, I should be in prison. Statistically... So it just shows that if you wake up, you take responsibility for what's going on and get some help, you can make incredible changes in your life that you never thought were possible." -Wendy Kier

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Esmie Lawrence: My name is Esmie Lawrence, and welcome to Sprinting to Success podcast. My guest today mentors committed female entrepreneurs who are established in the marketplace, have a message that makes an impact and are marketing their business online, but are struggling to attract the flow of premium clients. She coaches them to confidently step into their visibility and reach a wider audience. She gives them flexibility, freedom, and income in a way that is easy, fun, and feminine. Welcome to Sprinting to Success podcast, Wendy Kier.

Wendy Kier: Welcome, welcome, welcome. Welcome, thank you.

Esmie Lawrence: Thank you so much. So tell me about your childhood, how you grew up.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. Okay. So going back a wee while, I went into Kent. I was about one and a half, two. My parents were both alcoholics and I stayed in Kent when I was about 14 and a half. During that time, I think I must have had about 30 different foster placements. Probably, 30 plus.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Wendy Kier: So I was in and out of the care system, adopted when I was 14 and a half that broke down and then 15 and a half you get shoved out into the big wide world. So that was pretty much my childhood. Quite traumatic, very chaotic and a long time ago. I'm thankful.

Esmie Lawrence: Great. How did you manage those struggles as a 15-year-old?

Wendy Kier: Well, you just survive. You know, at that age when you go out into the big wide world, you just survive day to day, second to second, hour to hour. It's definitely personally, traumatically had I think more of an effect on me in my older years than it has my younger years because you don't know what you don't know. And because you're in survival mode, you are pretty much living day to day, second to second. So you just cope with what's around you at the time.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So as an adult, did you go back and just relive your childhood and made peace with it?

Wendy Kier: Making peace with it, I think as you get older, it just fades forever away into the background. Interestingly enough, when you say about making peace, I think what happens is when you have a lot of unanswered questions, you will put yourself back into situations whereby you hope psychologically somehow, subconsciously that it's going to help you come to terms or help you understand what's going on.

Wendy Kier: I spent 20 years working with young people at risk in Central London. You know, working with people who had very similar backgrounds to me because it felt familiar. It felt safe. It felt like my family, even though it wasn't. Now, when you spend 14 and a half years or however long it was in institutional care, you become institutionalized. So you surround yourself with what is familiar.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So you found a way to give back to children just like you.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I saw it as giving back, but yeah, basically.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. All right. So you're from England. Now, what are you doing living in Thailand and why are you there?

Wendy Kier: So I became location independent about 14, 15 months ago. I run my business online. I have clients all over the world, so we just thought, actually why don't we travel and I can work at the same time. Steve's been able to retire early at 48.

Esmie Lawrence: Great.

Wendy Kier: We're always having this discussion. Is he 47 or 48?

Esmie Lawrence: Right. As you get older, you forget your age, right?

Wendy Kier: I know. I know mine, 50. Yeah. So I have the freedom basically to move around because all of my clients are online. So I can go anywhere in the world that I want.

Esmie Lawrence: What a privilege? Why did you choose Thailand?

Wendy Kier: We've been to Thailand quite a few times. We love Thailand. We love the Thai people. We love the food. It is an absolutely tropical, stunning location, very luxurious, very green, natural. We've been to quite a few other countries over the last year, but this is probably a favorite if I'm honest.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, nice. Nice. So tell us about your relationship with money, because you said it drove you to depression. What happened?

Wendy Kier: Yeah, yeah. Well, it took me a long time to realize that my upbringing had such an impact on my relationship with money because I was always coming from a place of lack, always struggling, always just surviving day to day, hand to mouth. That, when I started my business, played out in the business as well. So the business struggles for quite some time because I had a very limiting money mindset. I had a really negative relationship with money.

Wendy Kier: I believed it when people said to me that they couldn't afford it, I would play into this whole illusion of people don't have money, people can't afford it. People never invest to work with me. So I made my prices cheaper, cheaper and cheaper to accommodate other people who would then never buy anyway. It really pushed me into severe anxiety, moved me into depression until I came back at the other side. And then, I started to study money. I started to really get a grip on this negativity. It is that I'd associated with money.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. So tell me exactly how you broke free of that.

Wendy Kier: I worked with a mindset coach around limiting beliefs. I've read books, I've done courses. It's just study basically. Even though I've had a very difficult time, I've always, always invested in my personal development. Always without fail. I've never left it up to an employer. I have always invested. That's one thing that's consistent throughout my life. So just training. I do VIP days with my clients and help them break free and crush their money stories so they can live an abundant life. I've really immersed myself into really understanding about my relationship with money and how it really works.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. How does it work?

Wendy Kier: Well, money is... If you think of money like a child, it's innocent. But what happens is, we have a tendency, because of our past experiences, to dump all of our beliefs around money, all of the negativity. We've seen them together as two things. But actually your beliefs is your beliefs. Money is like a child. It's innocent. It's got multiple personalities. It's clean. But your baggage, you project onto the money, which it's your stuff that you're projecting onto it.

Wendy Kier: Money in its purest form wants to be sensed, spent, saved, buy gifts. It wants to flow. It has a beautiful energy about it, but what we do is we put all of our baggage onto it. Oh, people can't afford it. It's rubbish. It's just absolute rubbish.

Esmie Lawrence: So whatever you believe about money, that's exactly how it's going to show up.

Wendy Kier: Absolutely. Yeah. That's what you're going to get back.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Interesting. So you are an author, and I was impressed when I saw this. You have over 2,304 students worldwide in 95 countries. How did [crosstalk 00:09:25].

Wendy Kier: It's more than that now.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh wow. That's amazing. Now, why did you decide to become an instructor?

Wendy Kier: Do you mean in terms of courses? What do you mean?

Esmie Lawrence: Yes. In terms of you're on Udemy as an instructor. So why did you decide to do that?

Wendy Kier: To be honest, that was because of my stinky money mindset, to be fair. Because Udemy sell courses and programs cheaply. So it played into my money beliefs. I would never do it now. If I have more time again and then I knew what I know about money now, I wouldn't do it now. Sorry, Udemy. But I wouldn't do it because...

Wendy Kier: Well, what I've found is, is that people are willing to invest much higher amounts of money rather than small amounts of money. The thing is with small amounts of money is it'll kill you because you have to work so hard to get the volume of people into a program.

Esmie Lawrence: That's right. Yeah.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. So for me, I just wanted to sell my program and I thought I could sell it cheaply to as many people as possible. That was my thinking behind it. But now, I am very anti, if I'm honest, course creation because it's a hard sell. It bombs people out. People don't get the results, they don't do the work, can't upsell into something else. So all of this talk around creating courses is only going to work if you are an established business.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: It's only going to work if you are established, if you have a network because otherwise you're going to be poor.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: You're going to stay poor.

Esmie Lawrence: We don't want to stay poor.

Wendy Kier: No.

Esmie Lawrence: So why do women struggle with charging a premium price in business?

Wendy Kier: I think a lot of it is to do with how they... So a lot of women are connectors, nurturers. They like to give. Because of that nature of giving, when it comes sometimes to talking about money, it feels unnatural. It feels uncomfortable. So it's really just about moving into that space, especially in business because you have to be able to talk about money openly in business. Otherwise, you've got no business.

Esmie Lawrence: Right, right.

Wendy Kier: It's about re-establishing some boundaries around new beliefs around money and how you can bring money into the business. I think it comes from helping, connecting, nurturing, basically sacrificing in a lot of cases, you'll own wealth and abundance to help other people, to put other people first. You can't do that in business. You can't go around rescuing everybody because you'll lose, because you'll be just giving your whole self and not actually what...

Wendy Kier: Business is a relationship. It has to be two people. It's a relationship between the two of you. It's not just one of the party just taking, taking and taking.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: So it is about boundaries. It's about stepping back, creating boundaries, understanding pricing, really moving into a space of appreciation of money rather than from a place of giving all the time.

Esmie Lawrence: So how do you...?

Wendy Kier: It's learned.

Esmie Lawrence: It's learned.

Wendy Kier: You learn it. Yeah. You have to. So when I'm with my clients, I do a VIP day with them. We look at their money personality to see how money is really playing out in terms of that personality, and then we look at rebalancing as what can we do to rebalance that using different tools, different methodology. So they have basically a new money personality by the time I've stopped on that VIP day.

Esmie Lawrence: What do you mean by a money personality?

Wendy Kier: We have a money personality, basically. There are eight different characteristics. I can't remember them off my hand, but my money personality is an accumulator, which means I'm the banker, I'm really good with money. My second one is the alchemist, which is about creating opportunities to bring in wealth. My third one is celebrity, of course.

Esmie Lawrence: What do you mean by that? Celebrity? What does that mean?

Wendy Kier: So celebrity means that I like to stand out. I like to be visible, which is important in business. You need to stand out, you need to be visible.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: Now, that's the positives. There are negatives to it. There's a positives and negatives to all of these. What generally tends to happen is when you go into a financial crisis of some time, you know something isn't playing out, you will happily sit in your predominant archetype, its negative side. So the banker, while she's very good at managing money, bringing money in, after money, accumulating money, on the flip side of that, she doesn't like to let it go.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Yeah.

Wendy Kier: So she doesn't like to spend big. It makes her very anxious. She likes to hold it, but she doesn't like to spend big amounts of money. It freaks her out. So while she's good at bringing it in, she doesn't like to let it out. But if you're not careful, you can play into the negative side of your predominant money personality. What you need to do is actually balance out all three. So they're all in partnership with one another. Yeah.

Wendy Kier: Most of my clients, actually all of my clients are either connectors and nurturers. So those two are predominantly within their money personality. Those two will have a tendency to put everybody else first before themselves. So depending on what that first personality is, it's about looking at that and acknowledging that and thinking about, "Okay, what is it that you now need to do to play to your strengths?"

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: So when we talk about... This is how it becomes very evident to me of where women are within their businesses and why they're not bringing in the amount of money is that they want to be bringing again is because they firstly hope negative beliefs around money like we all do. We all have it because we were conditioned to think that way, and then how they can rebalance that.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So then how do they rebalance that? Because if you come in with a negative mindset about money, and you as a coach, how do you teach them to rebalance that and how long does it actually take to do that?

Wendy Kier: Well, I do my VIP day. So we get together, we spend two half days together, and then we go through their money personality and then we go into an in-depth conversation with the tools that I used to take them through a journey to change it. So depending on who they are, I'll adapt it to that personality. You know, in terms of who that person is for them to get the best results so they can get a shift basically.

Esmie Lawrence: How much time do I need to spend with you to do that?

Wendy Kier: It's a VIP day. I just split it down into two. So it's five hours-

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. All right.

Wendy Kier: I work with somebody through that process. Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. After five hours, they can see where their strengths and their weaknesses are and then they can go ahead and start making money. Right?

Wendy Kier: Yeah. Basic. Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: Awesome.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. It's just about creating a different relationship with money and really understanding that it's just an illusion. Your beliefs will create your reality. If you change your beliefs, you then start to attract in. It's all a bit where we were now, but you will then find the clients who are willing to invest and pay that amount of money. But here's the thing, is that a lot of women will just focus in on the lower priced offers within a business. You can't run a business that way. It has to come from a premium and then you do the lower priced offers. You can't do it the other way round.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: You have to establish yourself as an expert and an authority first. Once you built your credibility, you've got an audience, then you can do the lower priced stuff. You'll never survive doing lower priced stuff first.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So tell me-

Wendy Kier: Unless you're a big business.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Oh yeah, definitely. A big business can do anything.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. It's fine. They've got the team. They've got the staff. They've got the infrastructure. They've got the volume. We can't do that as independent experts.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Because a lot of business woman online are solopreneurs, right?

Wendy Kier: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. So Wendy, take me back to when you're say, when you were 20, 30 years old. What were you like as a woman? Do you have a lot of confidence, you didn't know what you wanted to do back then?

Wendy Kier: I had no confidence. I had a real attitude. I had a real chip on my shoulder. I wouldn't speak to people. I found it very hard to communicate. I was very defensive. I was like, "Oh, get over there, don't even talk to me." That was me when I was 20, a handful.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. How did you make the transition like that, transformation from back then to becoming the person you are now? Confident, kind, caring.

Wendy Kier: I think a lot of it has to do with my partner. You know, we met 20 years ago, someone who was about 30, and I think the stability of being with him and going through a lot of acting out and living a lot of trauma with him and also having mental health input, psychiatrist, a whole lot, basically. You name it, I've had it. All of that.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So you have to go get some help from some professionals.

Wendy Kier: Oh, I had a lot of help. I had a lot of help. Yeah. I've had some real dark, dark moments for sure. But it's all just got, something's triggered something and I just... My brain just literally just switched off.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Did you have to go back deep into those dark areas to become free?

Wendy Kier: Sometimes I have but what I found is, is that actually all that does is just trigger acting out. So I'll start to, if go too far back, I'll start to act out in some way. Now, I deal with what's in front of me, not what's behind me. So a lot of CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. You know, changing the way you're thinking, reprogramming your thoughts, that type of stuff. I do a lot of journaling. I do a lot of meditation. I do a lot of... I've had a lot.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So you-

Wendy Kier: I haven't been sectioned. That's the only thing that hasn't happened.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. So you do a lot of journaling. Do you journal every day?

Wendy Kier: I try and journal every day.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. It's interesting, I find that when I'm getting a bit stressed out and I fall back into my old self, coming from that place of fear and lack, I stop journaling. Then a month later I'm like, "Why do I feel like rubbish?" So, journaling again.

Esmie Lawrence: How do you decrease stress in your life?

Wendy Kier: Meditate, journal. Meditation I think is a massive relief for me. I swear it makes you more intelligent, and I was thinking this morning.

Esmie Lawrence: Really?

Wendy Kier: I'm much more intelligent today. I'm sure it's the meditation.

Esmie Lawrence: How long do you meditate for?

Wendy Kier: Well, it can go from 10 minutes to four hours.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, wow.

Wendy Kier: You know, for the last three days or so I did about four hours [inaudible 00:22:18]. I did three hours. I did a couple of hours yesterday. It really depends. It just depends on my mood. There's no sort of like I'm doing 10 minutes a day, every day that I wouldn't do it.

Esmie Lawrence: Do you go in a certain spot and just sit there or do you... You're busy doing life and meditating that way? How do you...?

Wendy Kier: I'm in the hammock.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay. Oh, a hammock. Bet it's great. I can just picture you now.

Wendy Kier: I'm in the hammock.

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that's awesome.

Wendy Kier: Yeah. Let me... Right. Hang on. I'm going to move a second. Let me show you actually, because this looks a bit boring. I've set this up because it's good. I'm rolling.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay.

Wendy Kier: Let me show you where I am.

Esmie Lawrence: I don't see a drop of snow there. Right. Oh, that's beautiful.

Wendy Kier: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow. Nice fan. It looks all green. Wow, that's beautiful.

Wendy Kier: But I'll come back in because it's so hot.

Esmie Lawrence: I was saying to you I don't see a drop of snow.

Wendy Kier: No. There's no snow. It is absolutely baking here in Thailand.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So hopefully you have air conditioning in the house.

Wendy Kier: We do. That's why [inaudible 00:23:32].

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, that is awesome. So Wendy, go back to the younger Wendy who felt afraid. What words of wisdom would you give yourself so you can believe in yourself?

Wendy Kier: Wow.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah.

Wendy Kier: I think when you deal with that amount of trauma, it's a bit... I don't know what that would be because you're just in complete, complete survival. I don't know what those words of wisdom would be. I can't even connect to it. I'm just like not going there.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah. So then, is there a time in your life that you could go back and say, "Do this and this will make you feel better" or you know, whatever advice you'd give yourself maybe when you're 20, 30, 40.

Wendy Kier: I can only relate to it now in this present day. I do a lot of inner child work. I don't know if you've heard of inner child work.

Esmie Lawrence: No. What is that?

Wendy Kier: Right. So inner child work is a bit woo-woo.

Esmie Lawrence: Okay.

Wendy Kier: But it's used in dealing with trauma. Basically, in my mind, I go backwards into the past and I can connect with the younger version of myself. So I can connect with myself as a child. Then what I do is I speak to myself as who I am now as the adult I am in this day. So I will speak to the child in my present state. But also what I do as I take it up another level from that is I then step into the highest version of myself. You know, this is the woman that's got no baggage, no limiting beliefs, no nothing. She's in her purest form. I'll then use her to talk to the next two versions of myself, so I can step back into and be more aligned with her. Woo-woo, but it works really well.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. And you do-

Wendy Kier: You have to mother the other two basically, because she's ultimately who I am constantly aspiring to be. Not who I am now, but that better version of myself.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So what is it, Wendy? What are you struggling with now?

Wendy Kier: I think mindset is an ongoing daily for me. You know, making sure that I don't slip back into lack and fear, which is actually quite easy to do at the moment because the UK is in political turmoil. There's a lot of negativity. A lot of people have frozen business. They're not doing business. It's all a bit unpredictable. So it's quite easy with all of that going on just to slip into negative mode, it's really bad.

Wendy Kier: "I'm not going to make any sales. Oh my God, no one's buying." So it's very easy to slip into that. But if I think that I'm going to create that. So I have to step back from that and say, "Actually, no, I'm not playing that game. Those people's reality, it's not mine. It's not how I'm choosing to operate."

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Definitely [inaudible 00:26:49].

Wendy Kier: I think mindset is a daily. It's a work in process, for sure.

Esmie Lawrence: Mindset is definitely a daily because I find that I have to always keep that positivity in front and write it down and look at it daily because it's easy to slip into, "Oh this is not going right" or this is... Like always something that's negative. So you have to keep reminding myself that, "No, this is where you are now and things are great and it's just going to get better." You know, and just have that abundance attitude because if you have a negative mindset, it's going to keep you back. It's going to prevent you from becoming yourself, your greater self?

Wendy Kier: Yeah. I mean you must have some great tools in your toolkit from the sports that you did, from how you were trained.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. I do. You know what, one of the key thing is for me is action. When you-

Wendy Kier: Right.

Esmie Lawrence: Yeah. Just get up and do it because it's easy to think, "Oh woe is me or this is not going right." And instead of saying, "Okay, what's going right" and write it down and say "this is what I'm going to do" and then go for it. And don't expect perfection because perfection-

Wendy Kier: Yeah. [inaudible 00:27:58].

Esmie Lawrence: It's a killer and it doesn't exist.

Wendy Kier: Or I do it.

Esmie Lawrence: Forget it. Just do it. Even if it's imperfect, go ahead and do it anyways because it's a step forward. To me, it's a success, right?

Wendy Kier: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: [crosstalk 00:28:11] you know, it's really good. You have to have coaches. I think that's a key thing because as an athlete I had coaches and that's... Because sometimes when I was feeling down, they kind of got me back up and got me back on track.

Wendy Kier: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: That's what I think people need to do. But the mindset is key. You know, having a positive mindset and don't let your negativity bring you down. Always keep [inaudible 00:28:38] you know?

Wendy Kier: Yeah. I think people think it's complicated. Actually, it's not. You just need to wake up.

Esmie Lawrence: That's right.

Wendy Kier: [inaudible 00:28:44] you need to be conscious because we're running on the subconscious most of the time. And when fear and lack takeover, I think it's just about operating consciously. As you said, coaches, what they do is they go, "Hang on a minute?"

Esmie Lawrence: Right, exactly. You know-

Wendy Kier: That's not true.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. You know, and I say step into your fear because on the other side of your fear are all your successes, right? You just have to take the leap and just do it and know that you're going to land on your feet.

Wendy Kier: What would you say then, because you asked me that question about what would you say to your younger self and I was a bit like, "Oh, I don't know." What would you say?

Esmie Lawrence: Oh, I would say, "Esmie, everything's going to be fine, you know? Because Esmie, you're the person that you're afraid of every little thing. You feel stupid. You feel ugly, you know?" And I would say, "Esmie, be positive. Everything's going to work out fine just for you, you know?" Because when I was this little kid, I was always afraid of so many things.

Esmie Lawrence: And even though I am an Olympian, I was confident in certain areas but lack confidence in other areas and yeah, just say, "It's going to be fine and just even though you're afraid, do it." Because I've missed on a lot of opportunities because I was afraid. I was afraid to try and I would say, "Oh, I can't do it and step back." And every time I felt that I would just go back into fear and I would hide behind fear.

Wendy Kier: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: Fear is good. It builds a brick wall that you can hide behind. I said, "Esmie, kick down that brick wall and go through it and go for your successes." That's what I would say to my younger self.

Wendy Kier: I like that. I like that. I have worked with clients in the past and sometimes I just don't know what to do. I do everything I can to help them and try and support them and to help them break free of it with what I know, with the tools that I know to break free and to go through it. But some people just never break free. They never actually just do it. They're so trapped in their head that it's like, "I can't." They're paralyzed by the fear.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. Definitely. And action is key. You just have to do it.

Wendy Kier: Yeah.

Esmie Lawrence: I would just take one step at a time, one step and keep moving forward and then realizing. When you look back, you're thinking, "Hey, I've taken 10 steps." So, in a progression, right? Just keep going slow and steady. Right? That's my philosophy.

Wendy Kier: Slow and steady. I like that.

Esmie Lawrence: Slow and steady. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, slow and steady.

Wendy Kier: Slow and steady. That's good.

Esmie Lawrence: Slow and steady.

Wendy Kier: That's good. I like slow and steady.

Esmie Lawrence: Right. So Wendy, what would you like to say to our audience?

Wendy Kier: I think it's what has come out of this for me in terms of this conversation is it's about being conscious. It's about being fully responsible for the decisions you're making rather than just going on autopilot because you have the power to change things, but you have to wake up a little bit to realize that actually you can change things, that things can be very different for you. Statistically, given my background, I should be in prison. Statistically.

Esmie Lawrence: Wow.

Wendy Kier: Which is sad. Shocking.

Esmie Lawrence: Yes.

Wendy Kier: So it just shows that if you wake up, you take responsibility for what's going on and get some help, you can make incredible changes in your life that you never thought were possible.

Esmie Lawrence: Definitely.

Wendy Kier: You can break free of what's going on, whatever that is.

Esmie Lawrence: Right.

Wendy Kier: Business or life.

Esmie Lawrence: That is awesome. Perfect. That's a great way to end, Wendy. So Wendy, thank you so much for our awesome conversation today.

Bill Bergman, M.D. is a magna cum laude, Phi Beta Kappa graduate of Amherst College and the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. • He has been practicing holistic medicine and stress management for close to 50 years. • Dr. Bill lives in Naples, Florida where he is offering private stress management consultations, volunteering as a health educator for St. Matthew's House and serving as a clinician for SignifyHealth.

"Well, to really have real hope that whatever you're dealing with, whenever a person is dealing with, no matter what the challenges are, it's not what it may seem to be. There's opportunities in every challenge to be able to grow through it, to learn from it and to really advance in a kind of soul development. And of course we want the best for everyone. We want the best circumstances, but life is what it is. And it's, for most of us, perhaps every one of us, it's filled with life challenges. But we can be very hopeful that God is there, that there are insights that we gain from the latest brain science that help us to be able to understand how stress is formed, how unwanted habits are formed, that that understanding and insight gives us a way through all of this, so that we can really have much greater freedom, much greater happiness and wellbeing in our life, whatever circumstances we might be facing". -Dr. Bill Bergman

Contact Dr. Bill Bergman:

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• Nada Hogan: Women are powerful and have accomplished great things. Yet, sometimes we suffer from self doubt, fear, and limiting beliefs. We often believe that we are not good enough. These negative beliefs stop us from achieving our goals. Welcome to Sprinting to Success, a podcast dedicated to women who have experienced struggles, yet found ways to step into their power, their greatness, and learn to embrace challenges. These women will share their stories and give you insights to help you on your path so you can follow your dreams. And now here's your host, Esmie Lawrence.

  Esmie Lawrence: Welcome. This episode is sponsored by my coauthor course. I'm looking for 10 to 16 writers for the book, step Into Your Power. You write your story, or I will interview you and turn your interview into your story. Use your story, only 4,000 words, to inspire others. Speak on stages, do workshops, or become an authority. Contact Esmie today at esmielawrence.com, and now, my guest is a magna cum laude, Phi Delta Kappa graduate of Amherst College, and the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. He has been practicing holistic medicine and stress management for close to 50 years.

  Esmie Lawrence: He lives in Naples, Florida, where he is offering private stress management consultants, volunteering as a health educator at St. Matthew's house, and serving as a clinician for Cigna Health. My guest today is Dr. Bill Bergman.

  Esmie Lawrence: Dr Bergman. It's so nice to see you.

  Dr. Bergman: Thank you Esmie.

  Esmie Lawrence: Oh, it's an honor to have you on my show. I want to go back to you. What kind of child were you, and what challenges did you have as a child?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, I guess, I always wanted to be a doctor, somehow, even when I was young, I was watching TV shows with Ben Casey and Dr. Kildare, and I had, as a child, I had a very strong influence from my family, particularly my father who was a dentist, his father, my grandfather was a dentist. My uncle was a medical doctor, and so I really was kind of... I had kind of the perspective on wanting to be in the medical field, and wanting to be of help to people. And I was very idealistic, and I was raised in a Jewish home, although it was more kind of culturally Jewish, it wasn't really like a lot of religion, but I sort of at the prompting of my uncle, my folks sent me to Hebrew school, and I really was kind of interested in why we actually, as a Jewish person, why we didn't read the New Testament.

  Dr. Bergman: As I was growing up, I had friends in high school who were Christian, and they introduced me to the Bible and Jesus, so there was some kind of conflicts with my family. Not serious, but just where, I was very idealistic, and kind of very open minded, and was willing to really kind of explore whatever was out there. But through it all, it was really kind of a career in medicine that was the stable point for me.

  Dr. Bergman: I was not really a great student as a youngster. I mean, I had my challenges in doing well in school, but somehow I began to kind of blossom in high school, from the point of view of really taking an interest in learning, and being able to kind of understand things, and began to read more and actually became a pretty good student in high school. Then as a result, I could go to a good college and from there prepare to go to medical school, and I had a pretty good background. There's no doubt about it. I had parents who were very loving and very supportive, and the influence from my uncle in terms of the medical field. Even though there was some challenges in my teenage years, I basically had a very good childhood.

  Dr. Bergman: Where I began to have some more serious problems was when I kind of became a hippie. It actually, for me, was happening when I was in medical school. Again, it was partly a kind of idealism, kind of open minded to explore everything, and I think I probably got into some difficulties with kind of the hippie lifestyle in those years. But I still pursued my interest in medicine and graduated from the Medical School at Columbia University, and through that I kind of became interested in a more preventive, holistic approach to health care.

  Esmie Lawrence: So you were destined as a child to become a doctor in the medical profession, because that's your family's history, and then of course you weren't a good student, growing as a young child, but then you found your way in high school. What were some of the challenges that you had in high school as a young man?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, in high school, I really wanted, at that point it was clear to me I was going to have to really work hard to get into medical school, and so I began to kind of really focus on doing well enough that I could get accepted to medical school, and I think in some ways I really enjoyed high school, but I kind of maybe became more of a kind of... It wasn't necessarily the most balanced approach, because I was so focused on really doing well enough to be able to go to college and eventually get into medical school. I think in some ways I remained very open minded, but still I wasn't necessarily... It was a challenge to be able to really kind of be a balanced person.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. What was the point in high school that you said to yourself, "If I want to go into medical school, I better start studying"? what point was that and what brought you to that point where you say, "I need to get better marks"?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, I think I kind of... My mother was a very strong influence in my life, and she could see that although I had this kind of interest in medicine, even from when I was a child, that somehow I wasn't taking my studies that seriously, and she kind of pointed me in the right direction in terms of academics. That's when I really began to focus.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. In high school you were just mainly an academic young man, or did you try and do other things in high school?

  Dr. Bergman: Yeah. I mean, I was like the editor in chief of our high school yearbook, but my focus was pretty much on, at that point, getting into a good college, going to a good medical school eventually, and it wasn't necessarily, as I say, balanced. I would've been better off also, getting involved in some sports activities, which I ended up doing in college, became involved with wrestling for a number of years, but the focus really was a good college and a good medical school

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. Now, how did you become a hippie? Explain that one.

  Dr. Bergman: Well, in medical school, it was the 1960s, and there was a lot of upheaval going on. I was at the medical school at Columbia university. There was a lot of upheaval at the main university campus downtown. We were at the medical school, which was like...

  Esmie Lawrence: Well, what was happening during that time?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, it was the war in Vietnam was happening, and there was a lot of social unrest. I had friends who were very much involved in kind of political activism, and then I had other friends that were kind of more interested in being kind of like a flower child of the 1960s, and meanwhile I wanted to really do well in medical school. But, in the climate of that kind of cultural upheaval, either kind of getting involved politically or kind of dropping out from society, that was kind of the cultural context in which I was pursuing my medical education.

  Dr. Bergman: I ended up going out to, after medical school, going out to do my postgraduate training in Denver with friends who are kind of more on hippie side of things, and left my New York political activist friends in the big city, in New York, and went out to the Rocky Mountains with that other group of friends.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right.

  Dr. Bergman: That was a time that I, as I look back, I think it was, there were elements of it that were very constructive, but I think there was also, that kind of hippie lifestyle was not really healthy, as I look back on it now.

  Esmie Lawrence: So, give us an example of the hippie lifestyle.

  Dr. Bergman: Just too much marijuana, I would say was the main feature there.

  Esmie Lawrence: Was that drugs and free love, is that what it was?

  Dr. Bergman: Yeah, not to an extreme. I mean it was basically the marijuana, which kind of, for me was... I kind of justified it at the time as kind of personal development, exploration of higher consciousness, but I didn't realize at the time, you pay a price for that kind of experimentation with drugs. Fortunately it was not into more serious drugs, but... Yeah.

  Esmie Lawrence: Well, they say marijuana is a gateway to other drugs.

  Dr. Bergman: Well, it can be, certainly, it can be. I think any time that we really begin to look for something outside of our ourselves to fulfill our spiritual longing, for the soul development, we're going to have some challenges. And when it comes to using substances, whatever the drugs might be, or alcohol, whatever it is, I think that's going to, at least from my point of view and from my belief system, based on my experience and what I've seen in so many other people, is that the drugs really are very enticing, but it ends up you pay a serious price.

  Dr. Bergman: Now, fortunately I was able to kind of wake up from all of that, began to read the Bible much more seriously in the early '70s, graduated from the medical school in 1970 and then became much more involved reading the Bible and the New Testament, even though, as I say, I was from a Jewish background. The first time I was really kind of identifying with the wisdom that where I was reading in the New Testament, The Sermon on the Mount, and the attitudes, and really realizing that was the true path for me.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. Tell me a little bit more about... You, coming from a Jewish family, and believing in the Old Testament, and then now meeting new friends, and exploring the New Testament. What did that do to the family when they realized that you were doing this?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, it was kind of challenging. I mean, that was one of the challenges that was going on between myself and my family. I mean, I became kind of convinced that this was not only the right path for me, but that I wanted to kind of share it, maybe a little bit too aggressively with my family, in terms of my interest in the Bible, my interest in the New Testament, my interest in Jesus, and it created some tension, to say the least. But again, I had a very loving family, not just my immediate family, but also my aunts and uncles.

  Dr. Bergman: It's not that they were that kind of... As I said, they were more kind of culturally identified with Judaism rather than it really being a kind of a religious path for them, but my uncle, he was much more definitely religious, and he had a harder time with my interest in not only the New Testament and the Bible in general, Jesus, and all of that, but also my interest in holistic medicine. Here I was a graduate of the Medical School at Columbia University, a very, in many ways, very conventional, traditional medical school, and at the same time I was kind of exploring about homeopathic medicines, and herbs, and acupuncture, and some of these alternative... At that time we called it alternative, now, we kind of call it integrative approaches to medicine and health care.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. What brought you to study alternative or integrated medicine from the traditional way of doctor's doing things? What brought you to look at someplace else?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, I originally, as I said, I had always wanted to really have a career path in medicine and healthcare. When I went to medical school I was very much thinking in terms of becoming an eye surgeon. They have a great Eye Institute at the Medical School at Columbia University, and that kind of was my initial path, but in the third year of medical school, when you leave the classrooms, in the first two years, and you really go into the hospital for the first time, you're assigned a kind of older professor of medicine, a preceptor they called it, a mentor, and he would bring our little group of seven or eight third year medical students around the wards of Presbyterian Hospital. Dr. Grokoest was his name and he was a specialist in researching rheumatoid arthritis and autoimmune illness. As you know, autoimmune illness, whether it's rheumatoid arthritis, or other of autoimmune illness, is when the body takes antibodies that are normally protective against infection, and begins to turn it on the body's own tissues. That's why they call it autoimmune, and he was just-

  Dr. Bergman: ... tissues. That's why they call it autoimmune. He was a specialist in that, and he was doing major research in that. But he sat us down one afternoon, a little group of third year medical students... And this was after days of him showing us patients in the hospital with serious arthritic problems and autoimmune illness, and analyzing the physical exam and the laboratory values. He sat us down one afternoon and said, "Never forget that this is a psychosomatic illness."

  Dr. Bergman: I was absolutely stunned because when I heard him say psychosomatic, I immediately thought imaginary or like, "What's he saying? That the patient is kind of imagining that this illness?" This was after he had shown us the physical exams and the laboratory reports.

  Dr. Bergman: But he went on to explain that psycho means mind, somatic means body, and psychosomatic means mind body. So he pointed me for the first time to what we now know to be the mind-body connection. That changed my career path from a career as an eye surgeon to a career path in... Back then we called it holistic medicine. Again, we now call it integrative or functional medicine, because everything is now based on the science coming more and more together and unifying. But back then it was alternative medicine, holistic medicine.

  Dr. Bergman: But that was the thing that kind of just changed my career path. That one relationship with that one medical preceptor.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. Tell us a little bit more about holistic medicine. The mind, the body.

  Dr. Bergman: Well, holistic medicine is based on a worldview, or let's say a mindset, that recognizes that the human system is one integrated whole. That we have the body, we have the mind, and we have the spirit.

  Dr. Bergman: Now, that to me is a more amplified view of what we mean by holistic medicine or integrative medicine. That we recognize not just the physical and psychological elements of human existence, but we also recognize the spiritual elements. But the spiritual element is very much marginalized in the kind of general consensus out there. Even in holistic medicine, people will sometimes talk about the spiritual aspect, but the emphasis is very much more on the mind and the body.

  Dr. Bergman: I believe that that's very incomplete, unless we take into account that we have a spiritual nature as well. That we have higher spiritual qualities. That we have the mind, we have the body, we have the spirit all working together. It's an integrated whole.

  Dr. Bergman: When we become ill, our whole system, to some degree, is out of balance. It's not like an automobile where you can have one little part broken, and somehow every other part is perfect in the car. It's just one little part. You go ahead and you bring it to a mechanic. He finds out what part needs to be replaced, he replaces that part, and then the car is fixed.

  Dr. Bergman: In chronic disease... I'm not talking about an accident, which actually is where a kind of mechanical view of the human being makes sense, and in trauma and an accident. But when it comes to chronic disease, we're not a biological machine. We have to understand that any part of the body that's out of balance is going to affect the rest of the system in some way. And so-

  Esmie Lawrence: Like compensating, I guess, right? Like compensating.

  Dr. Bergman: Yeah, and-

  Esmie Lawrence: If one is off, then the others are going to compensate, and they're all going to be off.

  Dr. Bergman: Yes. The whole system has to be in balance. Mind, body, and spirit. That's why we... And I feel that the spiritual element is very important because that, I believe, is the eternal part of what really we're about as a human being.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. How does one stay healthy spiritually mind-body? How does that work? When you see somebody who is imbalanced, what does that look like?

  Dr. Bergman: When they're out of balance?

  Esmie Lawrence: Imbalance. Imbalance first, yes.

  Dr. Bergman: Yes, imbalance. Well, depending on the genetic background, which is something that we inherit from our ancestors, that will define the way that the imbalance within the system expresses itself.

  Dr. Bergman: For example, we can have genetic tendencies towards, let's say, Alzheimer's, or genetic tendencies towards cancer, or we can have genetic tendencies towards diabetes. But that's just the way in which, based on our genetic background and the genetic expression of our genes which get turned on and off, that defines the nature of the chronic illness in terms of what the symptoms are. How it expresses itself, how it manifests itself. But the cause lies in deeper imbalances within the system.

  Dr. Bergman: That's why we have to... To get to the root causes of it, we have to look... Well, if we're talking about the physical elements, we have to look at particularly our nutrition or our environments. We have to look at the degree to which there may be environmental toxins that are impacting us. We have to look at our diet and whether or not the food we're eating, because of the processing or the additives, might be causing an imbalance. We have to look at kind of the psychological aspects of what might be throwing us out of balance psychologically, like stress for example, is a very significant cause of stress. Actually, it's a stress source. Stress comes-

  Esmie Lawrence: Dr. Bergman, so explain what stress is.

  Dr. Bergman: Stress is actually our response to anything which is tending to throw us out of balance. We call the thing that's triggering the stress response within us, we call that the stressor.

  Dr. Bergman: Now, a lot of times, we think that the stressor is the cause of our stress. But the stressor is something outside that is triggering potentially a stress response within us. The stress response is the tension, is the uncomfortable feeling that we experience. But the cause is not the thing that's triggering it. The cause is how we are relating to that trigger.

  Dr. Bergman: That's why I've moved from stress management to stress relief, because we actually can... By understanding the nature of stress, that it's a potential response to the stressor, but it's how we respond to the stressor. So the power is within us. We can be exposed to very significant stressors and still not necessarily experience a high degree of stress.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. Hans Selye I think that's said that it's not stress that kills us, it's how we react to it.

  Dr. Bergman: Exactly. That's why it's very important to draw the distinction between the stressor, whether it's an environmental toxin or whether or not it's, let's say, a challenge at work, and the actual stress experience, which is how we're relating to that. If it's an environmental toxin, to what degree do we have, for example, the ability to deal with that toxin through the liver, for example, or other detoxification mechanisms that are within the body? If it's, let's say, a difficult situation at work, we can change the way we relate to that situation in such a way that we either feel a lot of stress, or we don't feel any stress at all.

  Dr. Bergman: So that gives us the power. Because it's not that stress is being caused from the outside, it's how we are responding to the stressor. That's within our control.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. I love what you said, that it gives us the power. Because two different people can be in the same environment, and one can manage stress really well, another will go totally crazy and they're totally stressed out. So it's how we see it, and how we think about stress. So it's coming, and we know stress is always going to be there, but it's how we react to it, how we think about it. So I'm glad you say that, because we have the power, we can control how we feel about a situation.

  Dr. Bergman: Your example where two people might be exposed to the same stressor but have two very different experiences.

  Esmie Lawrence: Outcome, yes.

  Dr. Bergman: Even within ourself, if we're, for example, maybe not getting enough rest, or we're not really kind of eating properly, then our response to one stressor could be completely different than that same stressor after we've had a good night's sleep. So even our own response can change, which proves that it isn't the thing out there, the stressor, it's what's happening within us. The power is within us.

  Esmie Lawrence: Ladies and gentlemen, did you hear that? The power is within us. I love that.

  Esmie Lawrence: Let's talk about stress management. So then how does someone... I know that we talked about the mind and it's what we think about stress. But give somebody who's out there still struggling with stress, what advice can you give them to relieve stress?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, I think the more insight we have about how stress is created within us, the insight itself begins to change how we handle the stressors in our life. The key... I mean, stress management is basically saying, "Well, I've got stress, so I want to manage it. Maybe I want to kind of like avoid the situation, or I want to kind of like just release the stress." That's all stress management. But what's much more empowering is stress relief. That's where we actually come to an understanding we have the power to define our experience, no matter what the stressor.

  Dr. Bergman: Now, the stressor may be, in some cases, could be very, very traumatic. I mean, it could have been a situation where someone is facing a robbery, or rape, or whatever. A stressor can be considerably traumatic, but the person's response to it is still, in a way, within them. Even in the most challenging situation, a person can see stress in a way in which loses a lot of its power. That has to do with just gaining more and more insight that the stress response is within us. It's not being caused from the outside. As soon as you think it's being caused from the outside, in other words, that the stressor is the cause of the stress, then you are becoming a victim of your circumstances.

  Dr. Bergman: The more insight... So stress management is giving people kind of like tools to be able to handle the stress. What I'm talking about in terms of stress relief is helping people to gain their own personal insight as to how stress is being created from within them. That is very empowering. Rather than being a victim of circumstances, we are basically expressing our own inner power.

  Dr. Bergman: That's where the spiritual element comes in. Because from my point of view, God is there wanting to help us in every situation in every moment. But one of the biggest challenges that we have is we may not be thinking of or believing in a God that really is kind of wanting to help us and loves us in all circumstances.

  Dr. Bergman: They've done studies on this. A large percentage of people who believe in God believe that God is very angry with them, that God is ready to punish them if they make mistakes. That view of God actually turns out to be quite unhealthy. They're even proving this now with brain scans and all. Because if we believe in a God who is angry and upset with us and always ready to kind of like punish us for our mistakes or whatever, it creates fear within the system. That itself is a very unhealthy emotion to carry.

  Dr. Bergman: I mean, fear is fine in a short situation. If you're driving down an interstate, and a truck swerves in your path, you want to be able to have fear of an accident and really, the stress response kicks in to save your life. But ongoing fear, ongoing stress wears away and creates inflammation at the cellular level. So the more we understand a God of love, that's the key. It's not just believing in God, it's believing in a God who is there in every moment, wanting to help us.

  Esmie Lawrence: A God that's kind, and loving, and caring. We're his children, and he wants the best for us. So you can ask God for help, right? But he's not going to be angry at you. You have to believe in a God that's loving and kind, and then take your power back. Take the control of your life, and know that you can manage stress. Right? So whatever comes your way, you know that, "I can do it. I can manage it." Even if you fail the first time or second time, just if you believe that you can manage stress, that will definitely make a difference in your life.

  Dr. Bergman: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's so well stated.

  Esmie Lawrence: You were talking about the leaky gut. What's the relationship between leaky gut and stress?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, it's very interesting. The leaky gut is a situation where inflammation that can cause all kinds of problems within the body, especially, begins in the gastrointestinal tract. As a result of inflammation... This inflammation in the gut, I mean, part of it, it can be generated just again, through very poor food choices, environmental toxins. But the stress response, we often feel emotions in the gut.

  Dr. Bergman: We identify the gut with feelings. I feel like I got punched in the gut. Because the gut has its own nervous system called the enteric nervous system. It's very, very sensitive to toxins, to stress.

  Dr. Bergman: Sensitive to toxins, to stress, to the stress response, and as a result of inflammation in the gut, which means a low grade damage to the lining of the gut inflammation. When it's kind of an acute inflammation like a sprained ankle or a bruised elbow, that will come and go, it will heal. But what we're talking about here is low grade ongoing chronic injury to the lining of the. And that kind of inflammation in the gut, it creates these kind of pores, openings, that normally are not there, but as a result of inflammation and injury, low grade injury, we develop a kind of porous gut lining and they call it leaky gut. And it means that things that normally would be kept out of the bloodstream begin to get absorbed. Toxins, bacteria, pre digested food particles, that normally would be kept out through the porous gut lining from the inflammation, begin to allow things that should be kept out of the bloodstream to be absorbed into the bloodstream. And this generates inflammation in many parts of the body. And again, it depends on the genetic background. For some people, it will take more of a form of inflammation in the brain. Other people might take the form of inflammation in the blood vessels to the heart. There can be all different ways in which inflammation manifests based on the genetic background.

  Dr. Bergman: But basically causes some of the major injuries to the gut lining, the leaky gut. And from there it creates problems, as I say in the heart and the brain. In fact, now there's a lot of research on the gut brain connection and how inflammation in the brain, which is predisposing people to early onset dementia and all these kinds of neurological problems, actually originates in the gut.

  Dr. Bergman: So that gets to the point I was making at the very beginning of our interview, which is that, to be like an expert now in neurology, you've kind of got to understand a lot of gastroenterology, whether it's to really understand brain science, you have to also understand about the science of the gut. Years past, you could become a gastroenterologist and you just focused on the gut and that was that. Or you became a neurologist, you focused on the brain and the nervous system, and that was that. Now to become a leading edge neurologist or a leading edge gastroenterologists, you have to learn the other specialty because everything is interconnected. And the leaky gut and gut brain connection is one example of that.

  Esmie Lawrence: Wow. That's amazing how everything connects, as you say, the body, the mind, the spirit, everything's all connected. So back in the day, in the caveman day where we were afraid of getting eaten by a lion. We're stressed and then the line is gone. Yeah. And then of course the stress decreased and we go back to living normally. But now, it's almost like people are so stressed out. It's almost like there's a lion behind them every single day.

  Dr. Bergman: That's right.

  Esmie Lawrence: How does that affect their health?

  Dr. Bergman: Well that's it. You've hit the nail on the head. Stress is a God given response to danger because there are legitimate dangers out there. But the problem is that we're living in such a way that we more or less are putting ourselves under stress. Again, it's the what's being created within us by the way that we are looking and interpreting our challenges, our problems, our circumstances in such a way that we have ongoing persistent stress. This is highly inflammatory in the system and it's one of the major causes of chronic disease, no matter what form that disease takes.

  Esmie Lawrence: All right. I was watching them a few YouTube channels regarding stress. And you were saying a lot of patients go to the doctors and they're on antidepressant and it's because of stress.

  Dr. Bergman: Well, unfortunately, we're in a time in our culture where people want immediate results and no medications... Now, I'm not against Medicaid, I'm not against pharmaceutical medication when it's necessary. But I work with so many people that are looking for an alternative to prescription drugs, either they are having side effects or not getting a particularly good response and they want to get off of them or people who are just looking to avoid taking them in the first place. And there are so many ways in which we can help people to be able to really manage their emotional States. Again, from my point of view, bringing the spiritual element into it gives us such an enormous advantage compared to a more secular view of things where you look at the mind and the body, but you don't necessarily take into account there's a God of love ready to be there and assist us all. All that's needed is for us to recognize, acknowledge and ask for that help, in a way it couldn't be more simple, not that it's going to be problem solved, but just over immediate. But it's a process. But we want to bring the spiritual element in as much as possible.

  Dr. Bergman: The whole idea is to be able to give people options so that you can avoid taking medications unnecessarily to begin with, or get off them if they're having side effects or whatever, or whether they're just looking for a better way. And those are the people that I work with, and particularly now I focus on people with destructive habits and addictions because that's a major cause, a major stressor for the stress response, is people just having an addiction to a substance or to a particular behavior, whatever form it takes. The brain science on this is very exciting because the prevailing point of view is that, we have to somehow solve all of our deep emotional causes, that we're responsible for creating our habit to begin with but we have to solve those deep personal problems before we can end the habit of the addiction.

  Dr. Bergman: It turns out that's not true. We do have to just understand how the brain creates a habit or an addiction, reverse that process, and then when the habit is no longer a problem for us, then we can get on with dealing with the challenges of our life and the personal issues that maybe help to form the habit in the beginning. But at least the person will no longer be encumbered with their addiction or with a destructive habit.

  Esmie Lawrence: Right. And so Dr. Bergman, how do you decrease your stress?

  Dr. Bergman: I am always turning to God. Remember I mentioned stress is a God given signal that maybe there's something legitimately to fear that we need to take corrective action? Well, the way that I look at stress, the way I've come to understand it and now that I teach other people is that you can think of stress even more broadly as kind of like the rumble strips on a highway. You're driving down and then you kind of deviate a little bit and you start feeling those rumbles on the tires, that tells you you've got to make the correction with the steering wheel, right?

  Esmie Lawrence: Like warning signals.

  Dr. Bergman: Right. And that's the way I think God intended it. That stress is actually like the rumble strips, well maybe like the check engine light on the dashboard telling us that we've got to take some corrective action. So in my case, and I recommend it for anyone who chooses to look at it from this point of view is that, that's kind of like a signal that rumble strip, that stress response that, oh, I'm off course, and then think about God, think about... And for those who maybe want to just think in terms of a higher power with some spiritual element that works for them. For me, the idea that there's a personal God that loves us and wants to help us in every moment, is just the most fantastic truth to eventually understand as being true. That's how I personally handle it.

  Esmie Lawrence: That is awesome because spirituality, believe in God. When I'm feeling stressed out, I pray and I said, "God, help me, guide me and protect me," because my mom would say, "If God is for you, who can be against you." So it's really nice to know that there's a higher power that's protecting you and guiding you, a kind and caring, loving God that wants the best for you. And He's behind you, in front of you, He's all around you, guiding and protecting you. So that's a great way for me to relieve my stress too, because I believe in a higher power that know that no man... If God doesn't want something to happen it's not going to happen. And so whatever happens in my life, I know that God guide me that way, protected me. Even though I might think, I miss that, something happened that I could have been hurt, but I didn't because God has protected me.

  Esmie Lawrence: I remember a couple of years ago when my daughter was in a car accident. It was just a miracle that she didn't die because the way the car flipped. And I said, "That is God's protection." I love that.

  Esmie Lawrence: So, Dr. Bergman, what would you like to share with our audience today?

  Dr. Bergman: Well, to really have real hope that whatever you're dealing with, whenever a person is dealing with, no matter what the challenges are, it's not what it may seem to be. There's opportunities in every challenge to be able to grow through it, to learn from it and to really advance in a kind of soul development. And of course we want the best for everyone. We want the best circumstances, but life is what it is. And it's, for most of us, perhaps every one of us, it's filled with life challenges. But we can be very hopeful that God is there, that there are insights that we gain from the latest brain science that help us to be able to understand how stress is formed, how unwanted habits are formed, that that understanding and insight gives us a way through all of this, so that we can really have much greater freedom, much greater happiness and wellbeing in our life, whatever circumstances we might be facing.

  Esmie Lawrence: Awesome. And on that note Dr. Bergman, thank you so much for having a great conversation with us today.

  Dr. Bergman: Absolutely. And if folks would like any kind of additional opportunity to communicate with me, they can go to get a free complimentary strategy session with me by just going to enddestructivehabits.com and arrange for their complimentary a strategy session on ending unwanted habits.

  Dr. Bergman: I'm Bill Bergman, medical doctor. I help people with destructive habits and addictions and I'm sprinting to success with Esmie Lawrence.

  Esmie Lawrence: Thank you so much, thank you so much Dr. Bergman for the gift of our audience. And to learn more about Dr. Bergman, you can also go to esmielawrence.com.

  Esmie Lawrence: Thank you for listening to Sprinting To Success podcast. Have an amazing day.

  Nada Hogan: Thank you for listening to Sprinting To Success, with your host Esmie Lawrence. Please be sure to subscribe, rate, and review this show on iTunes. For more information about Esmie and to hear other episodes of the show, go to esmielawrence.com. The information in this podcast is not intended as a substitute for professional or medical treatment or advice. Always seek advice from your healthcare provider.

Listen on: Google Play  /  Stitcher:    /  Spotify:   

iTunes:https://apple.co/2Xk75Or

In this episode, Esmie and Doug discuss:

• • • His parents divorced when he was young, and his mom struggled to raise two sons
    • Failed relationships, and the heartache of divorce
    • The bond he has with his brother and the agreement he had with his brother that nobody respected, except for him and his brother.
    • The challenges of family expectations because he moved from Baltimore to Los Angeles
    • In the last few years, he been through a failed marriage, the loss of his stepfather, and the loss of his brother that died from Cancer
    • He had a time in his life where anxiety really took a grip on him
    • Finding love again with the beautiful and talented JJ Flizanes

    Key takeaway:

    • Look for the lessons from your life journey because things happen for a reason, and that good is around us all the time.
    • You are going to get exactly what you think 
    • You can't worry about what people think about you
    • Stop people-pleasing and stop making decisions based upon what you feel other people would want
    • Have a supportive partner 
    • Saw a Cognitive Behavioral therapist, who taught him the importance of meditation, the importance of breathing, the importance of and immersion therapy
    • Schedule time for yourself

Doug Sandler overcame fears of a career reinvention, failed marriage and major move to the west coast to thrive in industry he loved but knew nothing about. His struggle to Triumph story is a great inspiration for all.

"So from a support perspective, from a counseling perspective, I would say that that has been hugely beneficial to me. Plus having a partner that really understands the importance of self development as well, to go through life unconscious just doesn't make sense. If you're aware of who you are, what you do, and the actions that you have affect other people, and affect how you are, then if you have that mentality that you understand that, you tend to go through life a little bit more consciously. And that's what I wanted to do, I think I've woken up in the last couple of years especially and understand and that these wounds affect my life. I'm going to probably carry these wounds for the rest of my life, just the realization of that is sometimes enough to help get you through any obstacles or any situations that come into your life."

― Doug Sandler:

Contact Doug:

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Listen on: Google Play Stitcher:  Spotify:  iTuneshttps://apple.co/2Xk75Or

In this episode, Esmie and Brenda discuss:

• Grew up in Brooklyn, with Jewish want to be Italian father who taught her how to shoot a gun at ten years old
• Parents had a very, tumultuous, love, and hate relationship
• Her parents did not pay attention to her, and so she got into a little bit of trouble
• She was an emotional caretaker at a very young age for her parents
• In high school, hanging out with the wrong people, experimented with drugs, drinking, and sneaking into clubs.
• Her father murdered her mom and married her aunt
• As an actress, she started a one-woman show. Initially, she was scared of being judged because she had so much shame.
• She went into denial that her father murdered her mom
• She went through a dark time of loneliness. She broke up with her fiance because she felt unlovable and didn't want to be seen. She would cry for hours every day because of the shame she felt

Key takeaway:

• She has a one-woman show called my Brooklyn Hamlet which is a source for healing for her
• She worked on finding compassion for her father, so she stops judging him. Because that judgment comes right back at her
• She has a three-step forgiveness process, and the first step is moving out in denial, and into acceptance of what is
• She learned to forgive her father and her aunt
• Be kind to yourself. Be loving to yourself. Look at the choices you've made in life, where you think you could've made a better choice.

Brenda Adelman is an award-winning actress, recipient of the Hero of Forgiveness award and has been interviewed on over 100 radio shows, podcasts and TV shows including Fox TV news and NPR. She’s performed her critically acclaimed one-woman show, My Brooklyn Hamlet, based on her life story and spoken on how to use your life story to heal, inspire others and make money for over 12,000 people worldwide. She is a speaker, coach and solo show mentor with clients presenting their stories on stages in the US, Canada and Europe

• "But what I do with my clients is I give them something called free form writing, which I learned in that master's program. It's different from journaling because you're never rereading what you wrote because otherwise it re-anchors the emotional energy back into your body. But it is literally how I released layers and layers and layers of anger toward my father. " ― Brenda Adelman

Contact: Brenda

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

Click link above to Watch on Youtube

Listen on: Google Play Stitcher:  Spotify:  https://apple.co/2Xk75Or

In this episode, Esmie and Lani discuss:

-Raised as a traditional native Hawaiian person born and raised in Hawaii. She is multicultural and has Hawaiian, Chinese, Japanese and English blood.

-Her dad was a master sergeant in the Army, which allowed her to travel in different European countries.  As an adult, she has extensively traveled throughout the world experiencing different cultures in pursuit of understanding both her life purpose and her kūleana - Hawaiian for lineal responsibility, honor and privilege.

-She attended the only school in the world dedicated to the education of native Hawaiian youth.

-As a child through young adulthood, she learned  laʻau lapaʻau or traditional healing with plants and minerals from her mother and elders. 

-Her high school counselor told her that she would not get into a top-notch college because she was not good enough.

-Hawaiian children sometimes grow up believing they are not smart enough, and never going to "make it to the top”.

-She has been a solopreneur/consultant for 30+ years. As a young consultant, her kupuna (elder) taught her to be humble. 

Key takeaways:

-It's essential to practice  lōkahi, a Hawaiian value which means harmony and unity. Lōkahi is also a holistic wellness practice illustrating the interdependence between the spiritual world, nature and humanity, which is  necessary to achieve long-term self-sufficiency.

-Her purpose is to be a catalyst for people to understand and actualize their kūleana, which includes living a life of service.

-Her elders encouraged her to navigate her life as a lōkahi practitioner, which includes listening to the guidance of your Creator, ancestors and  “inner voice” …understanding it is not necessary to seek “outside validation”  and to pursue your dreams and visions.

- You need to learn how to love yourself before you can even think about being of service to others. 

- You are the greatest mystery in the universe. Meaning you need to find out why you were born, your life purpose and kūleana, and how you can lead a life of service. 

-Find out who your ancestors are and what they did. Because when you do, you will have a better understanding of who you are and what you're here to do.

Lani Kamauu Yamasaki is a social business development consultant and certified Health Coach. She empowers individuals, communities and organizations to recover from trauma and build resiliency. Clients include Fortune 200 companies. She is a Ford Fellow, Smithsonian Fellow and has received the Governor of Hawaiiʻs award for distinguished outreach.

"Hawaiian culture is spiritually based. So when you understand that we are spiritually based, that our values and practices are based upon an interdependence with creator, with nature, then being a steward, this is what we're here to be and to do." -Lani Yamasaki:

Contact: Lani

Linkedin: http://Bit.ly/LaniYamasakiLinkedIn

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lanikyamasaki

Twitter: https://twitter.com/LaniYamasaki

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Here are five ways to keep us motivated:
• #1. Know the why
• #2. Visualize the end
• #3 Write it down
• #4 Find intrinsic motivation
• #5 Use positive self-talk

Esmie Lawrence

Esmie Lawrence is a Canadian Olympian, an International best-selling author. She is the host of Sprinting to Success podcast, which is focused on helping professional women overcome life’s challenges and stressors. As a success coach, Esmie helps her clients to start a journey of transformation from overwhelm  to creating a happier and more successful life.

Quote of the day:

 "Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently," - Henry Ford

Contact Kendra Cherry: https://twitter.com/KendraCherry

Contact Sebastian Kipman: https://twitter.com/sebkipman

Contact Esmie Lawrence: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Videos and  Articles    

[1] Motiversity. Best Motivational Speech Compilation Ever #3 - WAKE UP - 30-Minute Motivation Video #3 - YouTube. 2019; Available from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRk4PE5GhoU

[2] Kipman, S. 15 Highly Successful People Who Failed On Their Way To Success: https://www.lifehack.org/articles/productivity/15-highly-successful-people-who-failed-their-way-success.html

[3]  Cherry, K., Understanding Intrinsic Motivation: https://www.verywellmind.com/kendra-cherry-2794702

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support.

• Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

• Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Exercise increases your level of endorphins, and it lifts your mood
• Integrate the 5 AM club in your life
• Stop making excuses for your failures
• Two simple exercises you can do without going to the gym
• Make exercise a habit

Esmie Lawrence

Esmie Lawrence is a Canadian Olympian, an International best-selling author. She is the host of Sprinting to Success podcast, which is focused on helping professional women overcome life’s challenges and stressors. As a success coach, Esmie helps her clients to start a journey of transformation from overwhelm  to creating a happier and more successful life.  

Quote of the day: “Take care of your body. It's the only place you have to live.” --Jim Rohn

Robin Sharma Youtube Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xC_DbgpPAc

Robin Sharma on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RobinSharma

HealthSketch: What is a Stroke? Animated Explanation Video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryIGnzodxDs

HealthSketch on Twitter: http://@health_sketch

Articles

Ernestine Shepherd: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/bb27dc63-acda-4bb8-981f-988866ace2fd

Ernestine Shepherd on Twitter: https://twitter.com/msernieshepherd?lang=en

Dr. Yasmine Ali: https://www.verywellhealth.com/reasons-to-take-the-stairs-2509609

Dr. Yasmine Ali on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Yasmine_AliMD

James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/new-habit

James Clear on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jamesclear

Contact Esmie

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support.

• Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

• Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• How she discovered Energy Healing 
• Energy Healing has cleared out many anxieties for her
• Heal herself through Energy Healing
• Removing self-doubt using Energy Healing
• She helps entrepreneur remove energy blocks regarding career, confidence, resistance, and money

Key takeaway:

• Abby will help you drain negative blocks so you can own your expert status
• Remove your money ceiling, so you make more money
• Remove resistance and success blocks using Energy Healing
• You can free yourself from the cultural trap
• Face your fears, figure out what it's trying to tell you, and deal with it

  Quote of the day: "Up to eighty percent of what we think are mindset problems or believes or anxiety from our heads are really coming from the body, and if we pay attention to that we will notice that our fear has a place where it lives in the body." - Abby Rohrer

Contact Abby:  

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbyrohrer/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/cymoneykarma

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/abby_rohrer/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/moneykarma

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support.

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Jackie's scuba diving accident and how she spent three days in critical condition and 6-weeks in recovery
• Reflected on her life, and decided on a new path, helping others become confident and more successful
• Work according to her Passion, teaching sales and business owners define their skill still to become the top 1% in their industry
• People fear the sales experience because they have been through it before
• The different ways people buy now
• Selling is Emotional; based on scientific research
• Her peers called her the rainmaker
• The mistakes she made in becoming an expert seller
• There are four different personality types, and we need to sell to each of them differently: millennials, boomers, men, women

Key takeaways:

• We all have two tapes; I am not good enough, and I don't belong.
• Modern selling is building trust, credibility, authenticity, and authority with your clients.
• Every salesperson should create a personal brand on social media. Social media is everything these days
• Identify your market and where they hang out, for example, LinkedIn, Facebook or Instagram
• Communicate and interact on social media by posting, doing videos, and build your brand. with them
• The secret to success in social media and selling is not about selling, it about educating, providing and giving value
• Write down stretch goals and write down why.
• Dream big and visualize big 
• Put your Family first
• Push pass your fears
• Don't sweat the small stuff
• Stay away from Basement people who will drag you down

Jackie Rainforth

Jackie is a record-breaking, award- winning, Sales Expert. Nicknamed THE RAINMAKER by her peers. She is also the Author of the upcoming book: ‘THE BAD ASS GUIDE TO SUPERSTAR SELLING’. With a Corporate and Entrepreneurial sales background, her achievements include…. the coveted-nomination of the ‘RBC Woman Entrepreneur of Canada Award’.

Quote of the day: "There are so many ways that you can interact on social media these days, talk about your personal life a bit, hey, who are you? People get a feel, the more they see you they recognize you. They understand that your values and your level of Integrity matches there's, they are going to trust you, and that's what selling today is all about, it's about building credibility and trust, and social media helps you do that." - Jackie Rainforth

Contact Jackie

Jackie's book:The Badass Guide To Superstar Selling  https://bit.ly/2MmhzLn

Website: https://rainmakersgroup.ca

Twitter: https: //twitter/JackieRainforth

Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/jackierainforth

Youtube: https:www.u-tube.com/embed/FhgsB097Hkw

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support.

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• My mom is my inspiration because she faced her fears
• Stay away from negative people
• Make mistakes
• Accept yourself
• Join a supportive community

Esmie Lawrence

Esmie Lawrence is a Canadian Olympian, an International best-selling  author. She is the host of Sprinting to Success podcast, which is focused on helping professional women overcome life’s challenges and stressors. As a success coach, Esmie helps her clients to start a journey of transformation from overwhelm  to creating a happier and more successful life.

  Quote of the day: "Sometimes when you share a goal or dream with others, they will say you can’t do it. Or they will laugh. The reason they respond in this way is that they don’t have goals or dreams of their own. They project their aimlessness on you and tell you that you are too old, too young, too stupid, too tall, or too indecisive.  They want to cause doubts in your mind and stop you in your tracks, so you stay exactly where you are." -Esmie Lawrence

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support. Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Stephen had a dysfunctional family, and his mother was mentally ill
• Stephen was physically abused and dropped out of high school at an early age
• Married four times, experienced bankruptcy and foreclosure
• Sonji grew up in a loving and stable family environment
• Stephen resented his mom
• Challenges of co-parenting with different parenting styles
• Sonji when through job displacement and felt inadequate

Key takeaways:

• Many of the things that are limiting us today are things that were told to us as a child
• Change your thinking, and you can change your life
• In marriage, you must communicate and share your thoughts and feelings in a safe and calm environment
• You cannot carry your baggage from a previous marriage into your present marriage
• You can’t assume that your partner has the same ideas about money. Therefore you must talk about money because of different upbringing
• Identify your negative limiting beliefs by using the acronym B.L.I.S.S
• You need an accountability partner to keep you going

Stephen and Sonji Millet

Stephen and Sonji Millet are transformational speakers and life coaches. This couple have been through dysfunctional childhoods, multiple marriages, job displacement bankruptcy, foreclosure, behind on taxes and the challenges of co-parenting, depression, relationship friction—but individually and together they overcame ALL, by commanding themselves to TALK STRAIGHT DAMMIT!

Contact Stephen and Sonji

Website: https://myblisstopia.com/

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiISMKh-aPdP6QGLDhitSCw Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/myblisstopia/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/theblissdoctor

Stephen and Sonji's book: https://amzn.to/2YAxgV4

Quote of the day: "When you have actions that you can continue to do then you can keep moving, and as long as you get up and put one foot in front of the other, and you start doing something, you will eventually come out of it, but if you stand still, if you stand in the story instead of on the story you won't go anywhere."  -Sonji Millet

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book: How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

           Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

                                Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support.

Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic

• Most people go to their grave not finding their purpose.
• Your gifts are the things that you're born with.
• Talents are skills that you have acquired due to the amount of time that you've invested in research  in order to develope your talents
• We have minimum  70,000 thoughts a day.
• In 2008, he was diagnosed with degenerative bone disease.
• The Fulfillment Formula saved his marriage and made him a better person.

Key takeaways:

• We don't just want to self-reflect and keep looking. You want to self-reflect and then make the adjustments. Course correct is a daily, moment-by-moment thing
• You stay healthy in your body by monitoring what you're eating, eating your vegetables and fruits and getting your vitamins in and you don't have to run miles every day, but you need to move. You use nothing when you sit down. Move at least 30 minutes a day.
• I heard somebody say, trade your expectations for appreciate ... It was Tony Robbins. Trade your expectations for appreciations and you will see the world transform. That's gratitude, being open.
• Meditation helps you find your purpose.
• Winners can't lose.  When you're a winner, you can't lose. It's not about the scoreboard. It's not about what's in front of you. It's what's inside of you.

Rob Howze

Rob Howze is an Empowerment Artist with a passion for helping people unleash their highest potential. My mission is to create billions of healthy wealthy human doings by empowering people with the knowledge and tools that lead them to living healthier more prosperous lives. My current platforms consist of: inspirational music, interactive programs, multimedia presentations, youth development and public speaking presentations that encourage people to be FitRich in their lives and in their businesses.

Quote of the Day: "Fulfillment Formula is a process that saved my marriage, made me a better father, better businessman, better community leader, broadened my perspective, strengthened my confidence. It's a process, and because I am a social scientist, I really want to know how everything is working. I don't just want anything to happen and not understand how it happened because if it happened and it wasn't good and it was negative. I want to make sure I don't repeat that process. If it was beneficial, I want to know how. I want to refine that. I want to keep refining it because we know that it works."  -Rob Howze

Contact Rob:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robhowze/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowzeLifeRob

Youtube: http://youtube.com/c/RobHowzeLife

Rob's book: Purpose Search: The 4 Keys to Unlocking and Unleashing Your Purpose  https://amzn.to/30UWGtU

Contact Esmie:

Esmie's New book, How To Embrace Challenges: Step Into Your Power: https://esmielawrence.com/books-by-esmie/

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/esmie-lawrenceoly/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SuccessCoachEsmieLawrence/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/esmie.lawrence/?hl=en

Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeQpiIow5rAACyn2eaWRgJA

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Did you subscribed to my podcast? If you’re not, I want to encourage you to do that today. I don’t want you to miss an episode. https://apple.co/2Xk75Or PS. It’s important to disclose that many of the links on the esmielawrence.com website are affiliate links. Which means that if you choose to make a purchase that I will earn a small commission. Which allows me to continue hosting the blog and website. This commission comes at no additional cost to you. Rest assured that the commission does not affect which items are listed on my website. Thank you for your support. Show notes by Esmie Lawrence

Audio production by Brian Calkins Podcast Mechanic