Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation is Alex Brees CEO and Founder of un:hurd music, a music tech company that uses proprietary technology to help artists reach their most valuable fans via data-led marketing campaigns. 

Throughout this conversation, Alex offers valuable insights into the evolving landscape of the music industry, the importance of data in crafting effective marketing strategies, and the challenges and opportunities for artists in the digital age. He emphasizes the need for artists to be adaptable, understand their audience deeply, and leverage data not just for short-term gains like playlist placements but for building a sustainable and engaged fan base.

The conversation begins with Alex detailing his educational path, studying psychology at university, which unexpectedly paved the way to a career in sales and marketing. Despite not having a formal education in sales, Alex highlights the crucial role that selling skills play in entrepreneurial success, a realization he came to understand during his university days. After university, he moved to London to tap into more significant opportunities in tech, driven by a fascination with data's power to influence marketing strategies as inspired by books like “Dataclysm: Who We Are (When We Think No One's Looking)” 

Transition to Tech and Data Analysis:

In London, Alex transitioned from basic sales roles to more complex positions where he could analyze data to drive marketing decisions. Then his tenure at a Global Investment firm, Carlyle, where he worked as a trading analyst. Here, Alex's role was pivotal in converting consumer behaviour data into actionable marketing insights, helping the company optimize its advertising spend and grow its market presence rapidly.

In the Music Industry:

Parallel to his tech career, Alex's love for music led him to organize music events, particularly in the UK rap scene, which was then burgeoning. His efforts not only provided a platform for emerging artists but also challenged the negative stereotypes often associated with the genre, thus opening more venues to these performers. This side venture eventually steered his career fully into the music industry.

Universal Music:

Alex's passion for music and data culminated in a role at Universal Music as a global analyst. Here, he was responsible for using data to optimize marketing campaigns for top-tier artists like Katy Perry and Lady Gaga. His work involved a mix of quantitative analysis—looking at streaming and social media data—and qualitative research, such as market surveys to better understand fan desires and expectations.

un:hurd:

Drawing from his many experiences, Alex founded un:hurd, a platform designed to support underrepresented artists by using data-driven strategies to boost their careers. The platform helps artists understand their audience through detailed analysis and effective marketing strategies, mirroring the analytical approaches he honed in his previous roles but focusing on empowering smaller artists and indie labels.

un:hurd music is powerful, seamless music promotion at your fingertips. It offers you the ability to build effective promotional campaigns across all of your platforms that matter. Their technology creates a tailored list of marketing suggestions based on the user’s data and in just a few clicks, one can pitch to playlists, reach new fans on social media and launch a fan hub. Since launching, un:hurd has worked with over 65,000 artists from 129 countries, has raised over £2mil from some of the worlds most influential music investors, been featured as one of Music Ally’s start-ups to watch and has featured on BBC Dragons Den.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

un:hurd

00:10 - Byta.com

06:10 - London Drill and Trap promoting

08:14 - Being an analyst at Universal Music

10:17 - Major label resources, what that means

12:00 - The transition from Universal Music to un:hurd

12:50 - My Analyst superpowers

15:50 - Competitor analysis for music

17:30 - Wanting to scale up to help millions of musicians

20:45 - learn by doing

21:55 - What does un:hurd do for its clients

23:30 - Byta.com

24:00 - Playlisting is important, but just a part of the puzzle

26:30 - Playlist is NOT the answer

28:30 - know what your goal is as an artist 

32:00 - Spotify playlist pitching & third-party playlists

33:33 - Building momentum

35:00 - Be yourself?

36:00 - Be consistent & own your audience

39:00 - How do Majors do it and does it work for DIY?

42:00 - Create as much awareness as possible

43:15 - #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

44:45 - ABT (Always be testing) test your content types

45:50 - Always create what feels true to you,

48:30 - rasing capital for Tech.

52:42 - It's all about people, and it's all about network

54:30 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation  is Nancy Lu a seasoned New York-based publicist with over a decade of experience, she describes her journey from healthcare consulting and tech startups to establishing her own PR firm, Fancy PR. 

Nancy discusses her initial reluctance to pursue a career in the arts due to the instability perceived by her immigrant family background and societal expectations. However, her passion for music and involvement in the music scene in Washington D.C., where she made significant connections and wrote about music for pleasure, eventually led her to shift her career path toward her true passion.

Nancy explains the complexities of modern public relations, which has transcended traditional media to include various content platforms, making the role of a publicist more about content coordination and opportunity creation. She emphasizes the importance of understanding and personally connecting with artists to effectively communicate their stories and project visions. This approach not only enhances campaign strategies but also aligns with her belief that resonating with an artist's work can significantly improve a publicist's efficacy.

Throughout the conversation, Nancy discusses the strategic aspects of PR, such as managing expectations, defining the scope of work with clients, and the importance of strategic planning in campaign success. She touches on the challenges faced by independent artists and the role of publicists in amplifying their existing momentum rather than building it from scratch. Nancy also addresses the critical need for more inclusivity in the industry, praising initiatives like incubator programs aimed at underserved communities.

During their conversation Marc and Nancy also explore how the digital age has changed the expectations and methodologies in PR, requiring publicists to be more creative and integrated in their approach to media and content. They discuss the importance of data and analytics in shaping PR strategies and the continuous need for adaptation to the ever-evolving media landscape.

The conversation wraps up with Nancy advocating for a realistic and informed approach to PR, where understanding the artist's current standing and potential trajectory is crucial for effective publicity. She stresses that while AI may assist in streamlining processes, the creative and human aspects of public relations remain irreplaceable, underscoring the artistry behind crafting impactful public relations campaigns.

Fancy PR

The Fancy PR Story – Founded in 2013, Fancy PR is a boutique full-service public relations agency committed to storytelling. From crafting artists’ narratives to placing high-impact stories and driving cultural conversations, they love what they do. As an AAPI woman-owned Business, we’re moved by diversity, equity and inclusion in the arts and believe in the power of fans and building community.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Fancy PR

00:10 - Byta.com

02:44 - from Health Care to Tech to Music

04:24 - Wanting music but no one to look to

07:00 - DC and music connections getting started

10:15 - Moving to NYC and Girlie Action

11:36 - Post intern and Vitalic Noise

13:17 - move to Fancy PR and getting started

14:39 - Is PR today all about being a content coordinator or content facilitator

16:22 - Define the scope of work

17:30 - strategy for small vs bigger artists

20:37 - Onboarding a new client and transparency, goals

23:25 - PR usually works on retainer

24:39 - Live events are now key

26:00 - #1 set up foundation of awareness…

30:00 - Integrate your publicist into the team, share the stats

31:00 - Byta.com

32:00 - “The Report”, delivering good and bad news

36:00 - Timelines, when to pitch & when to go back

38:30 - The cold call

39:00 - Do not paste a press release into a DM

40:30 - Where do new artists need to start

42:55 - Make it personal, its not just about the music

46:00 - Don’t be a clown, unless you are a clown

48:00 - Timelines, scheduling 

50:00 - Too early, too late

50:30 - Do you need a PR?

54:30 - AI, Publicists are humans

56:00 - Byta.com

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today’s guest on #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation, in Emily White. Host Marc Brown sits down with Emily White to discuss her inspiring journey from Wisconsin to New York, and how her educational and professional experiences have shaped her successful career in the music industry. Originally from Wisconsin, Emily recounts her time at Northeastern University in Boston, where she balanced her studies in the Music Industry program with being a Division I scholarship athlete. She shares how her internships at Powderfinger Promotions, Live Nation, and ones in New York, provided her with practical, hands-on experience and helped her build a strong network within the industry.

Emily highlights the importance of real-world experience, encouraging aspiring music professionals to immerse themselves in the field, make connections, and learn from their experiences. She also delves into her transition from internships to a full-time role as a tour manager for The Dresden Dolls, which ultimately led to her founding a successful music management company.

Throughout the conversation, Emily emphasizes the significance of continuous learning and adaptation in the ever-evolving music industry. She discusses her work as an author, where she distilled her extensive knowledge into the Amazon bestseller "How to Build a Sustainable Music Career and Collect All Revenue Streams," and her podcast, which is a top music business podcast globally.

Emily also touches on her advocacy work, particularly her efforts to increase voter turnout through the #IVoted initiative, showcasing her commitment to using her platform for social good. This episode is packed with valuable insights and practical advice for anyone looking to navigate and succeed in the music industry.

Collective Entertainment is a 100% women-run & owned company based in New York, Miami, & North Carolina. Their clients & projects span the entertainment industries specializing in music, sports, content creation, activism, & production.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Collective Entertainment

How to Build a Sustainable Music Career and Collect All Revenue Streams

#IVoted

00:10 - Byta.com

02:51 - Wisconsin to New York

06:00 - Internships / Amanda Palmer / Dresden Dolls

14:02 - The 2nd Book

How to Build a Sustainable Music Career and Collect All Revenue Streams

16:35 - Get your art together & other tips to get started

21:00 - Understand what music publishing is & Performing Rights Organizations

23:17 - Publishing administrator 

30:30 - my next series of books….

31:50 - Byta.com

33:25 - Full night's sleep, daily movement, and then a short meditation

36:23 - #IVoted

38:28 - Taylor Vs Drake

40:00 - Elections are often decided by the size of a concert venue

46:31 - Voting, it's been a real problem in the USA

49:10 - Michelle Cable

52:48 - Things don’t always go the way you expect it to, that can be good too

56:25 - What is your WHY

58:00 - 

Byta.com

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today's guest is Roman Rappak not only the Co-Founder and Chief Creative Officer (CCO) at Ristband, but also the frontman for the touring band: Pivot. Roman shares his background, detailing his start in the music industry as a musician forming a band and making beats on a laptop, eventually signing record deals and touring the world. However, he realized that traditional revenue streams from touring and licensing were unsustainable. This realization led him to explore new ways to leverage technological advancements to support musicians.

Roman describes the inception of the world's first mixed-reality live concert, funded by a Dutch government grant in 2017. This innovative concept allowed audiences to experience a live band performance through augmented reality, blending the real and virtual worlds. This approach proved financially successful and highlighted the potential for integrating music with immersive technology.

The conversation shifts to Ristband's evolution, where Roman reflects on his initial reluctance to embrace the tech industry but ultimately recognizing the potential for music-tech convergence. He mentions the support from Epic Games, which enabled Ristband to develop tools and platforms to make immersive music experiences accessible to a broader audience. Roman emphasizes the importance of viewing musicians as startups, using technology to enhance their visibility and revenue.

Marc and Roman discuss the historical context of music and gaming, noting how advancements like the PlayStation One and licensing real music in games brought the two industries closer together. They explore the potential for dynamic, ever-changing music integration in games and the challenges of creating new contractual relationships for music use in gaming.

Roman highlights the shift in the music industry, where major labels now prioritize viral social media presence over traditional musical talent. He encourages artists to embrace new tools and technologies, leveraging the vast opportunities in the gaming world to reach wider audiences and sustain their careers.

The conversation concludes with Roman urging artists to explore new mediums and tools, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and innovation. He mentions the Voices of VR podcast as a valuable resource for understanding the intersection of VR, AI, and music. Roman and Marc agree that the future of the music industry will be shaped by unexpected, underground innovations rather than traditional major label strategies.

Overall, the discussion provides a comprehensive overview of Ristband's mission to revolutionize the music industry through technology, Roman's journey from musician to tech innovator, and the potential for artists to thrive by embracing new technological opportunities.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Ristband

Pivots

00:10 - Byta.com

04:25 - Roman’s background

06:00 - Pivots

08:10 - Ristband at SXSW

09:00 - Number of songs uploaded to Spotify

10:30 - Trent Reznor article 

13:45 - Roman realizes he is in the Tech biz

16:10 - Major labels are not forward acting

16:50 - Gaming & Music, the new way forward

20:10 - How did Gaming get so music-friendly

26:37 - Where are the opportunities for smaller artists

29:45 - How it became way more easy to build games

31:00 - Byta.com

32:19 - Roman’s band is making money

35:20 - Gaming is the new MTV for music discovery

37:30 - Things have changed, artists need to break new ground

41:45 - #HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

43:15 - People used to think the internet was “never going to work” & was genius

43:40 - We are in the Wild West

60:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today's guest is Brian “Z” Zisook is the Co-Founder & SVP of Operations & Artist Services at Audiomack. In this episode, Brian and Marc discuss preparing for online success as an artist by strategizing DSPs & Social Media. Zisook’s extensive experience in the music industry surprisingly includes conducting over 500 interviews with artists and industry professionals over 13 years. Artists include- J. Cole, Big Sean, Rick Ross, John Legend, Nipsey Hussle, DJ Khaled, and Anderson.Paak, among others. Zisook was even selected to join the Recording Academy as part of their new member class in 2022. Brian’s main gig is co-founder of Audiomack. As SVP of Operations, Zisook leads a team of 10 across three continents, overseeing and managing relationships with over 180 record labels and distribution partners, including Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, and over 80 Merlin members. Before Audiomack, Zisook was the VP and EIC of DJBooth, a New York-based digital music publication and media house he co-founded with Audiomack co-founder David Macli. At its peak, DJBooth generated 8M page views monthly and annual revenue exceeding one million dollars. 

Audiomack is an on-demand music streaming and audio discovery platform that allows artists and creators to upload limitless music and podcasts for listeners through its mobile apps and website. In February 2021, Billboard announced Audiomack streaming data would begin informing some of its flagship charts, including the Hot 100, the Billboard 200, and the Global 200. In March 2021, Fast Company magazine named Audiomack one of the 10 most innovative companies in music.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Audiomack

DJbooth.net

00:10 - Byta.com

02:44 - Where Brian is from

03:14 - College Radio is where it all started / DJbooth.net

06:24 - Why we started Audiomack

08:28 - How the idea progressed

12:41 - Empowering creators is our jam

16:53 - How do we make money

19:48 - Advice and educational tips, pay attention to your fans

24:28 - There is a need now more than ever for connection.

29:35 - Artistic development is really like human development.

31:10 - If you're trying to appeal to everybody, you end up appealing to nobody.

33:36 - Present as organized

38:30 - A variety of ways that you can engage your audience 

45:26 - Ridiculous to paint a picture that this is not a lot of work

48:11 - What what might be obvious to one is not correct to another

50:27 - Create a spreadsheet

53:00 - Campaigns that are really engaging, innovative or inspiring

57:29 - Who is your target audience? The mainstream is too broad a target 

60:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today’s guest is Simon Pursehouse, Global Director of Music Services at Sentric Music, an “industry challenging” music publisher. Simon works within the Business Development and Creative Departments at Sentric and is the point person for their roster of signed songwriters.

Previously at Sentric, Simon headed up the sync division, which under his supervision was nominated as Best Indie Publisher at the Music Week Sync awards for six years running. Here he has developed relationships with global media organisations, broadcasters and advertising agencies which has resulted in Sentric’s catalogue being placed in adverts, films, games, TV shows worldwide.

Simon has been featured in Music Weeks’ ‘30 Under 30’ list and regularly speaks at various industry conferences worldwide such as Reeperbahn, The Great Escape, BBC Introducing Live and AIM’s Sync Day amongst many others. He has been invited to discuss Sentric on BBC 6Music on multiple occasions and has consulted on judging panels for awards/grants for BAFTA, PRS, BRITs, Music Week and more. He is a regular guest lecturer at LIPA and BIMM amongst other educational bodies.

Simon has been a core part of Sentric’s online identity; he is the author of Sentric’s Blog which offers advice to emerging artists and has received millions of hits

Sentric Music:

Sentric Music was formed in 2006 as the new age independent music publisher. Sentric disrupted traditional publishing by offering the fairest deal in the industry. We empower artists and songwriters to collect the royalties they’re owed.

Their friendly and knowledgeable team are dedicated to ensuring writers and artists get the most out of their music. They enjoy giving artists and songwriters opportunities to elevate their careers and fulfil their ambitions.

“To date we’ve put the power back in the hands of over 400,000 artists.”

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Sentric Music

Streaming Calculator

WTF is Music Publishing

00:10 - Byta.com

02:43 - The Beard

03:48 - Liverpool Institute of Performing Arts 

04:14 - History of Sentric’s start

08:04 - Sentric’s growth and development

11:00 - The basics of music publishing

12:42 - Your local Performing Rights Organization

14:00 - The Sentric method

16:00 - The pie chart / AKA how publishing works

19:00 - Simon’s trip to Australia

22:26 - Democratization of Publishing

24:30 - Collecting royalties and new synchs

26:51 - Performance VS Mechanical income

28:53 - Marc’s recap

30:33 - Byta.com

31:05 - Neighbouring rights explained

34:51 - What the fuck is music publishing

The Life Cycle of a music publishing copyright

37:00 - Sentric Vs TuneCore VS Song Trust

41:30 - Pitching Syncs

44:00 - Picking partners: Be careful (aka - wait and they will find you)

48:00 - Lawyers

52:38 - Sarah Hamilton (Ditto)

54:24 - Just be nice to everyone (if you are good, they will find you)

59:27 - Make sure your whole team know about all your wins, helps the pitch.

1:01:00 - More on sync

1:04:00 - The goal is to make your music, not just "sinkable music…"

1:08:00 - email tips, making contact

1:09:000 - Be nice

1:12:00 - Work with experienced people 

1:14:30 - Finding the “Best people”

1:15:00 - How much do you charge for Synchs

1:16:48 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today's guest is Lara Baker, General Manager at FUGA for the UK & Ireland. On top of being named in Billboard's International Power Players 2022, she was also honoured with Music Week’s Women in Music Roll of Honour and SheSaidSo's Alternative Power List. She is passionate about improving diversity, gender balance and inclusivity in the music business. She has sat on UK Music’s Diversity Taskforce, supported the Love Music Hate Racism campaign and organised regular women in music and diversity-focused events. Lara joined FUGA in early 2023. She came from Songtrust/Downtown Music Publishing, where Lara worked for 4 years as Director of Business Development for the UK, IE and Australia. Lara's background and passion have always been supporting independent labels and artists. Her music career began in 2004 at AIM (the UK trade association for independent labels), where Lara spent 14 years serving the independent community, ultimately as Marketing and Events Director. During this time she created the AIM Awards, the leading celebration of independent music, as well as AIM's year-round programme events including AIM Connected, AIM Sync conference and Indie-Con (now known as Future Independents). There is a lot to talk about and Marc and Lara definitely get into it.

FUGA is the world's leading B2B music distributor. FUGA is the number one choice for some of the world’s top labels, management companies and distributors, including Epitaph Records, Ultra, Curb, Mom + Pop, mTheory and Domino. As GM UK/IE, Lara's role leads new business and client relations for the territory.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

FUGA

AIM

WIN

Merlin

Songtrust/Downtown Music

Women in Music Awards

shesaid.so

Keychange

Black Music Coalition,

Women in CTRL, 

00:10 - Byta.com

03:52 - Getting started, school & first job

04:50 - Music business school 

07:57 - Socioeconomics and background 

09:00 - AIM getting its start

12:16 - Why indies needed help

15:52 - The Big wins at AIM when I was there, Spotify/MTV…

18:00 - Merlin and WIN explained

21:15 - Diversity in music not reflected in the organization

25:00 - Women in Music Awards, genesis

26:38 - Mentoring

28:50 - The gender pay gap, really bugs me!

36:45 - The Socioeconomic barriers

41:00 - Byta.com

43:00 - Things have changed, what artists need to do and how FUGA helps

46:00 - The Hives.

52:00 - More initiatives

54:10 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Today's guest is Daniel Seligman who has been active in the Montreal and international music scene since 2000. He has managed Stars, The Unicorns, Socalled and Yves Jarvis through the company he co-owns called Danagement. In 2002 Seligman co-founded the multidisciplinary festival POP Montreal and remains the festival's creative director. An annual not-for-profit cultural event, POP Montreal champions independence in the arts by presenting emerging and celebrated talents. The 5-day festival showcases more than 400 performances to audiences of over 60,000. Founded in 2002, POP Montreal helped break countless emerging artists to the world while providing a dizzying and diverse array of headliners like RZA, Fever Ray, Bonobo, The Orb, Sheryl Crow, Suzanne Vega, Godflesh, David Byrne, St Vincent, Butthole Surfers, John Cale, Beck, Franz Ferdinand, Regina Spektor, Queens of the Stone Age etc. 

Danagement Artist Management oversees music management, business management, tour production and grant writing for a wide variety of artists including;  Basia Bulat, Braids, Jean-Michel Blais, Le Ren, Owen Pallett, Sarah Neufeld, Socalled, God Speed You Black Emperor, Wolf Parade, The Besnard Lakes and more. In 20 years POP Montreal has produced thousands of shows and events throughout Montreal and around the world. On a festival landscape that’s persistently male and Euro-centric, POP succeeds in offering attendees respite. This year the festival takes place in Montreal, from September 27th to October 1st, 2023. The 5-day festival showcases more than 400 performances to audiences of over 60,000.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Pop Montreal

Danagment

00:10 - Byta.com

02:26 - Ursa Pop Montreal HQ & Great venue

05:00 - Montreal is unique, Montreal was super cheap

07:08 - I started off managing Stars

08:51 - Music Management is not rocket science, if you have a driver’s license, you have a usable skill

10:15 - The basics skills required to manage a band

11:00 - How did Pop Montreal get started/Peter Rowan

13:20 - The importance of alternative weeklies

14:37 - Posters were cool

16:20 - Montreal’s moment in the sun (when it comes to indie rock)

20:15 - Why did you start Pop Montreal?

25:30 - Pop Montreal was for the artists

28:20 - Byta.com

29:35 - You can not just go and play at a festival, you need to do more

32:10 - Booking agents are now key

36:00 - Opinions on Social media

38:20 - there are more gatekeepers

41:20 - Michelle Cable artist manager

43:10 - Daniel’s work as an artist manager

45:42 - Have to have the passion, and do your homework

50:56 - You have to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty - Chris Blackwell

52:44 - Find the passion & the hustle will follow.

54:25 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on today’s episode is Andee Connors,  Pandora’s Senior Manager of Catalog & Creator Services. Pandora is only accessible in the USA, but it has over 60 million subscribers. The streaming service has a great history of human-led curation. Andee’s background is steeped in the DIY music ethos. His band bought a van, toured pre-cell phone and circled the USA, with stops in Europe, many times even before a record deal was on the table. He is an anomaly, both old school and very much a part of the modern music ecosystem. He brings to this conversation a great many insights, perhaps the most important being, to make sure you know what success means to you and then go after it. 

Andee discusses how a Black Metal drummer with DIY coursing through his veins ended up working with Pandora at a job that no one wanted. He also explains what makes Pandora different from other streaming services, one thing is AMP, which stands for Artist Marketing Platform. This discussion also goes in the direction of modern-day music discovery. Is it better today? How have things changed, and how can people take advantage of those changes? When should you send your music to Pandora to get playlisted? Pandora has 60 million subscribers!! What about Radio VS streaming services, what role do they each play today? Why is Bandcamp awesome, because streaming your favourite artists is really not enough to support  an them if you really love the music and they make you happy, you need to buy merch too, so says Andee. 

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Pandora

SiriusXM

00:10 - Byta.com

05:09 - Running Aquarius Records

07:15 - I also had a label:  tUMULt Records

08:13 - What is Pandora AMP

09:52 - Listing to thousands of demos

11:35 - The early days at Pandora

13:10 - The effect of things going digital

15:50 - Touring & recording back in the day

17:20 - How Pandora got its start

22:00 - Pandora is only in the USA but you can still use it to find fans

23:00 - Mike Warner - Book: Work Hard Playlist Harder

25:00 - Send your art to those that inspired you

29:00 - Community was your only connection before the internet

32:00 - What are your expectations, your barometer of success?

38:00 - Being a musician in 2023 is a lot of work

40:00 - Houston Pandora has a problem with submissions

45:00 - Timelines to get your music to Pandora

48:00 - Metadata

50:00 - AMP (stands for Artist Marketing Platform)

52:30 - Radio VS streaming

57:40 - How to better support the artists you love

59:30 - Are there too many platforms?

102:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on this episode is May Mahmoudi, A&R at Ninja Tune’s Big Dada Records, as well as working in the sync department of Ninja Tune’s Just Isn’t Music. This episode is an insightful introduction to publishing and record label deals. How to get your music synched and what are the expectations from artists at the various levels of the music ecosystem? May was brought on to do A&R when Big Dada decided to do a big relaunch in early 2021. The label put a new focus on where they wanted to go and who was going to take them there. They are now actively working to amplify Black, POC and racialised voices. Big Dada Records looks to shift the narrative around this music, bypassing stereotypes to allow and encourage the freedom to express oneself for who they are and want to be. The goal: supporting and offering resources to a new generation of artists. May approaches music first by relating the vibe and the artist’s community. Then it is the nitty-gritty of how the music might be properly promoted and what the artist’s vision is, who they are and what they want. Having someone who works both the publishing side as well as the label side of the music ecosystem in for a conversation brought up a lot of new strategies. May is also very interested in having artists develop their music and career, being ready for their next step, whatever level that might be. 

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Ninja Tune

Big Dada Records

May Mahmoudi reviewed by Pitchfork

00:10 - Byta.com

03:36 - Virginia Tech, Beach Fossils, Wild Nothings

05:00 - Me and my friends all moved to LA, I got a job at Universal Music

06:23 - How  got my job at Ninja Tune

08:36 - The difference between the publishing world and the record label world

10:00 - What don’t artists know about publishing

10:35 - Just DM Beck…

11:24 - What does May’s day-to-day look like

12:51 - What are publishers looking for in an artist

14:42 - Chicken and Egg, how do artists get synchs?

15:28 - What does synch-able mean exactly?

17:03 - Bid Dada is looking for people pushing boundaries

18:11 - How do most indie labels approach new signings these days?

19:18 - The luxury of being Big Dada Records, under Ninja Tune.

20:42 - What are publishers looking for in an artist

21:10 - Why would anyone sign a record deal?

23:25 - Bandcamp is your best option

25:22 - May’s back story and her music career

27:50 - Byta.com

29:00 - You need to be ready for the level of label you sign to

31:16 - Music pollution

34:45 - Technology has changed everything & made music more accessible

38:09 - The importance of giving back to your community

40:00 - HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

41:18 - How does May find new music and artists

43:41 - How does A&R work inside the label

46:12 - What makes a great songwriter

47:30 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on today’s episode is Obinna Agwu. Newly appointed A&R Executive at Horus Music Nigeria, Obinna Agwu is also an artiste manager and music business consultant and podcaster with years of experience working in the Nigerian music industry. He is experienced in working closely with a variety of industry partners and managing internal/external relationships. As mentioned he also hosts a music industry-based podcast known as The Listening Sessions Podcast.

Prior to joining Horus Music, Obinna worked at Boomplay as their Artiste Relations Manager, executing over twenty major releases and securing top talents like ILLBliss, Laycon, Hotyce and Ugochee for Boomplay’s Hip-Hop initiative,  “Pass The Mic”. Obinna also oversaw planning and rollout for El Dee The Don’s ‘Undeniable’ whilst working at Trybe Records, and while at the Chocolate City record label (generally regarded as one of the most successful indigenous urban record labels in Africa) he oversaw the Plantation Boiz’s Plan B album, And The Bass is Queen by Lindsey Abudei, M.I Abaga’s debut album ‘Talk About It’, and many other projects.

Marc and Obinna talk about how artists can be better prepared to help move their music and careers forward. They also talk about the history of the music industry in  Nigeria, the Afrobeats explosion and why there is more to Nigeria than Afrobeats.  

Obinna spoke to us from Lagos, Nigeria.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Horace Music

Horace Music Nigeria

Trybe Records, and the Chocolate City record label

Boomplay

West & East Africa

Afrobeat

The Listening Sessions Podcast

00:10 - Byta.com

02:35 - From Boomplay to Horace Music Nigeria

04:22 - Radio promotion back in the good old days & A&R

09:11 - Artists out front, maybe too soon

11:46 - People expect excellence

15:10 - South African music industry

17:00 - Nigerian music industry relationship with South Africa

22:53 - From radio to steaming and Boomplay

27:00 - How do new artists approach the music industry in Nigeria

29:30 - Are Nigerian artists looking to sign to major labels

35:35 - How does Horace Music support creators

37:25 - How do artists get to 20 000 streams

42:45 - How do artists decide how to develop their careers

45:43 - A&R is a new concept in Nigeria. Payola

50:40 - the vibrant music scene in Nigeria

54:00 - The Listening Sessions Podcast

55:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on today’s episode is Mike Warner, founder of Work Hard Playlist Hard – The DIY playlist guide for Artists and Curators. Mike is also the Head of Editorial Marketing Partnerships for North America at Believe, the global music distributor. As the go-to authority at the forefront of the digital music world, for all things streaming, we get into it with Mike. Find out how he got started as a DJ in Australia and then eventually made his way to California. How unemployment can lead to some great ideas, opportunities and even a book. Let's find out about the path that led to Mike eventually ending up at Believe USA for his day job, yes he loves a day job.  Throughout this episode, Marc brings a bucket of questions to the table. Mike gets more specific about some excellent strategies, timelines and how to approach building a team. He also explains a few unique ways artists can get noticed by the many Digital Service Providers (DSP) out there. 

The biggest lessons offered up: 

• Don’t give up and don’t ignore any of the streaming services. 
• Artists should always be talking about their work no matter when the music was released. 
• A song is “new” the moment people hear it, even if it is 1 or 10 years old. 

Mike spoke to us from California, USA.

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Believe

Work Hard Playlist Hard – The DIY playlist guide for Artists and Curators

Chartmetric

00:10 - Byta.com

02:20 - I grew up in Australia

03:39 - All I wanted to be was a DJ

06:10 - I moved to the USA and could not work so researched streaming services

08:40 -Pay a fee & get on a streaming platform: DistroKidt, CD Baby, TuneCore

09:00 - Other platforms provide services on top of that- The Orchard Ingrooves and Believe

11:55 - The band Date Night

13:00 - Writing the book: Work Hard Playlist Hard

20:18 - Fill in the forms and pitch your music to the DSPs

27:52 - What is an editorial playlist

29:07 - Spotify only allow you to pitch one track at a time

30:18 - Amazon Music: Pitch your music everywhere

32:00 - Pandora, only in the US, but a lot of listeners and great artist support

36:15 - Tidal for artists, “Rising Artists”

40:23 - Make a plan, talk up your music

43:31 - 8 Weeks before release, stick to a schedule

47:05 - Don't be disheartened, people take longer to discover new music today

49:30 - Its new the first time you hear it

51:56 - Finding your team- ask lots of questions.

56:00 - How I got on the Starbucks playlist

59:00 - Reach out on LinkedIn

59:30 - Creating your own playlists and exchanging music with other curators

1:03:20 - Working with labels and distributors

1:04:00 - The New Spotify user interface, Spotify canvas

1:10:00 - What are publishers looking for?

1:12:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on today’s episode is Jason Grishkoff the founder of SubmitHub.  With just a hop, skip and a jump, Jason moved from the world of high finance to working at tech giant Google. Then a side hustle and hobby – the Indie Shuffle Blog (it’s music discovery powered by real people.), led to founding SubmitHub. The goal was to efficiently and transparently connect artists with curators, the “right” people, in order to get music heard more efficiently.

One of the key stages of getting your music heard and promoted outside of your own network is accessing the world’s music curators, but who are they? How can artists and creators access these curators and influencers themselves? This is what SubmitHub is an expert in. The platform was built with musicians and curators in mind. You upload your music, then use pay-for credits to submit it to trusted and user-scored curators (there is a free song-submission feature as well). They listen and then respond directly from within the SubmitHub platform.

Byta’s Marc Brown has always tried to impart as much wisdom as possible to anyone wanting to operate within the music ecosystem. DIY is your best first step, finding out how everything works, by trying and often failing for the first time. There are no shortcuts. This was a great conversation between two people trying to do similar things in different ways.

Jason spoke to us from Cape Town,  South Africa

Show Notes:

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

SubmitHub

Indie Shuffle

00:10 - Byta.com

03:15 - NAPSTER

03:57 - 2007 music

07:54 - Indie Shuffle

09:00 - MP3 Blogs

09:40 - Web Sheriff

13:18 - The advantage of a publicist

17:36 - SubmitHub explained

21:23 - Solving the problem of email inconsistency

25:33 - Hype Machine

27:38 - Knowing who you are and what you want as an artist

33:30 - How to approach advertising your music

39:00 - Who should I send my music to?

43:03 - How to take advantage of playlists

48:32 - The difference between followers and listeners

55:46 - Playlist pitfalls

58:35 - Pay for playlisting/fake playlists

1:01:00 - What else is an artist to do?

1:03:00 - TikTok

1:06:00 - Take Spotify out for drinks, if you can find them

1:08:00 - Get as much traction in your first 28 days as possible

1:12:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

This episode features a panel discussion moderated by Marc Brown, Founder & CEO, Byta / byta.com 

Our guests are:  Mira Silvers (Head of Music, FORT Agency), Nikisha Bailey (GM, Nvak Collective Executive Board, The Recording Academy Global Co-Chair, Diversity & Inclusion, Women In Music) & Phil Loutsis (VP Community, AWAL)

Live music, festivals, and conferences. All of a sudden people were back in the same rooms listening to and talking about music again. 2022 was the year music finally came back from COVID.  Some of the same old challenges that have always been there did not go away. This episode comes up with a few ideas to move a music career forward.

 Here is a little more information on our panelists:

Mira Silvers

Originally from Atlanta, Mira Silvers is a young music executive & polymath, who serves as the General Manager/Co-Founder of VICEVERSA, an emerging social-based record label and artist incubation platform. Additionally, she is an artist manager and the Head of Music at FORT, an independent female-led and Brown-owned agency focusing on a highly curated roster of artists for live development.

Phil Loutsis

Phil focuses his energies on helping indie artists build their careers. Part of his role at AWAL includes curating content to help creators and managers make the best use of their resources. A big part of building and sustaining those music careers – harnessing community with artists, creators and their teams. He enables artists and their teams to better tell their stories.

Nikisha Bailey

Forbes “Next 1000 list 2021” honoree, Nikisha Bailey is a community-driven entrepreneur, entertainment executive, and philanthropist with a lifelong commitment to music. Professionally, she is the General Manager for the Nvak Collective – a next-generation record label & artist advocacy collective that embraces web3 to drive change for creators and intellectual property. She also serves as Vice President for The Recording Academy’s New York Chapter and is an Ambassador for the Academy’s Black Music Collective (BMC). 

Even if you stumble on this podcast deep into 2023, or further down the road, the ideas, strategies and inspired conversation that take place in this episode are well worth a listen, are still relevant. Sustaining a career in music has never been easy but the landscape seems to be changing at an increased pace... or is it. Some things remain the same- like hard work and treating your music and yourself like a business, other things- streaming, TikTok offer up new opportunities and challenges.

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

02:49 - FORT Agency, MMF Canada, VICEVERSA Records

03:51 - AWAL

04:32 - Nvak Collective, The Recording Academy, Women In Music

14:13 - Chartmetric

19:57 - Girl In Red

25:53 - 1000 Super Fans

30:49 - Byta

33:00 - Muni Long

33:31 - Jazmine Sullivan, Denzel Curry

40:15 - Artist as CEO

51:57 -  SubmitHub

55:21 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Bonus Material: 

#MethodToMyMusic weekly interviews

Digital Dialogue Guest Blogs

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on today’s episode is Kevin Erickson, Director of The Future of Music Coalition (FMC).  Kevin has contributed opinion pieces to outlets as disparate as The Nation and Pitchfork, volunteers with Positive Force DC, and remains active as a musician and record producer, operating Swim-Two-Birds recording studio in DC, alongside husband Hugh McElroy. Before joining FMC’s team in 2012, he directed the All Ages Movement Project, a national non-profit network of all-ages music venues and youth music programs. The Future of Music Coalition is a Washington D.C.-based nonprofit organization supporting a musical ecosystem where artists flourish and are compensated fairly and transparently for their work.

The FMC’s work is rooted in the real-world experiences and ambitions of working musicians, whose perspectives are often overlooked in policy debates. The FMC works with musicians, composers and industry stakeholders to identify solutions to shared challenges. They promote strategies, policies, technologies and educational initiatives that always put artists first while recognizing the role music fans play in shaping the future.

This episode does not just talk policy and lobbying, but real work tips and tricks on helping musicians connect, develop community and more than anything else pay attention to what the world at large and larger corporations are imposing on creative musicians.

Kevin spoke to us from Washington, DC

Show Notes

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

Future Of Music Coalition, Staff

All Ages Movement Project

Positive Force DC

00:10 - Byta.com

12:00 - Universal Music Group

13:21 - Clear Channel, iHeart Radio

17:00 - Ticketmaster, Live Nation

24:00 - Puppets, more here

26:00 - Music Modernization Act

30:00 -  Byta.com

35:00 - Healthcare for Musicians USA

36:00 - Affordable Care Act

38:00 - Terrestrial Radio Royalties

40:00 - House Judiciary Committee

43:30 - Huw Stephens

50:00 - DIY, DITO

55:00 - Future of Music Coalition YouTube

56:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

"You have to define yourself and create your own brand. I normally don’t like that ethos that you have to create a brand, but you can definitely do it in a way that stays true to yourself."

Our guest on today’s episode is Saidah Blount, Executive Producer at SONOS Radio, she is also their Primary Impact Storyteller. What does that job title mean exactly? She lets us know. Storytelling is at the heart of what Byta believes is one of the most important elements of promoting one’s self: always control your narrative. So Marc and Saidah get into it. Saidah followed a very unique path from the midwest to New York, one that included music journalism, stopping off at NPR for a few years and eventually landing at SONOS. Her north star was always music and trying to figure out how she could somehow incorporate that into her work life. She realized early on that working in the music industry proper was not for her, so she had to figure out another way, to do it on her own terms. She is a big fan of radio, having grown up in Kansas City one of the first big radio markets in the USA, plus both her parents were big music fans. Marc has a long history in Radio as well, so they discuss the differences between curated playlists (by real people VS AI),  and old-school radio, and the future of “radio”. How can musicians make contact with the people at SONOS to have their music heard and played? Spoiler alert- persistence seems to be the answer. It is a great conversation that goes down some surprising and very insightful paths and Shazam.

Saidah spoke to us from Brooklyn, New York

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

01:58 - Sonos Radio

05:14 - Kansas City Radio

08:22 - NYC 2000s

11:15 - Interview Magazine

14:05 - National Public Radio

16:06 - radio.SONOS.com

22:40 - Shazam, auto Shazam 

25:25 - Byta.com

26:00 - Imaginary Sound Track

28:10 - Black is Black, DJ Lindsey Caldwell

29:00 - Jamaican & country music 

30:00 - Women in Sound, Women in Sound ‘zine

32:00 - Bob Boilen

34:00 - Bandcamp

42:00 - Huw Stephens

45:00 - DEI initiatives

50:00 Thom of Radiohead

51:00 - Erykah Badu

52:00 - Dolly Parton

53:00 - Tems

57:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Our guest on today’s episode is Kevin Breuner, Senior VP of Engagement and Education at CD Baby. Kevin’s job at CD Baby is all about making sure musicians are as prepared as possible when planning to release their music into the world. Marc and Kevin talk about how Kevin went from being a Grammy-nominated musician to working with CD Baby. Along the way, Kevin also offers up all kinds of great advice on being ready when you release your next album or single.

Previously VP of Marketing at CD Baby, Kevin’s new role reinforces what CD Baby is all about: making sure musicians are as prepared as possible when planning to release their music into the world. At CD Baby, Kevin created the DIY Musician brand, which has become the cornerstone of CD Baby’s mission statement.

Kevin came to us from Atlanta, Georgia

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

02:14 - Music Biz

02:16 - CD Baby

02:55 - CD Baby podcasts, blog, conferences

04:03 - Smalltown Poets

04:11 - Belmont University

04:20 - Producer John Hampton

06:46 - The 90s Christian music scene

08:00 - GRAMMY nominated, Dove awards

11:15 - iTunes(Apple Music) 

11:40 - MP3 players

12:15 - DIY podcast

14:30 - Streaming changed everything

26:555 - Grassroots marketing

28:30 - KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid

29:20 - Set a release date before your music is done

36:45  - CD Baby release plan generator

42:22 - Discover Weekly

52:36 - People like seeing videos 

57:00 - You want to own the relationship

1:04:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

This episode’s guest is Miller Williams, Senior VP Creative at Kobalt Music Publishing. Miller’s role at Kobalt covers A&R, songwriter services, and catalogue acquisitions. He also works with their international agents and sub-publishers to exploit their songs and help their writers with co-write opportunities. Signings include Becky Hill, Milow, Jef Martens, Houston Comma publishing, Carla Monroe, AJ Tracy, Martin Sjolie, and Alex Clare. Williams has also held similar A&R and/or creative positions at Sony ATV UK, BMG Records UK, PWL Records UK, and Terrace Music (Nashville). In this episode, Miller talks about going from zero to hero, getting synchs and how things work when you are writing and pitching songs to K-Pop and J-Pop artists. They also get into how things are working in Africa these days and of course how Miller made it into the music ecosystem to start with.

Kobalt is one of the most successful independent companies for music publishing, label services and rights management. In his role as Senior Vice President of Creative there, Miller works across A&R, collaborations and music marketing.

"Yeah! Usually what I find is that if you scratch beneath the surface, the artists who have become successful have done a ton of work behind the scenes that no one has known about. I don’t think there’s any shortcut to success. Lil Nas X did become famous quite quickly through TikTok, but he’s proven that he can write hit after hit which is another important thing - longevity. That’s a real skill to be able to keep going and reinvent yourself."

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

02:06 - Kobalt

6:15 - Belmont College

6:20 - PWL

6:22 - Global Talent Publishing

8:45 - BIMM & ICMP

10:18 - Berklee Music

12:12 - Orbital

16:55 - MP3s and downloads

23:00 - NTFs

27:35 - Japan

30:27 - Katie Gregson

36:13 - Vaccines

38:40 - Justin Bieber finds Omah Lay

41:44 - Ultra Records

44:10 - Adapter

45:42 - Ive released “Love Dive” 

48:34 - emPawa Africa

49:09 - Chioma Onuchukwu.

51:24 - WizKiz, BurnaBoy, Mr Eazi, Tems

52:37 - SAMRO

53:00 - Sheer Music 

53:42 - SOCAN

54:33 - Sentric Music

55:48 - Artist Journey

58:24 - PRS (Performing Right Society), 

                  MCPS (collects and distributes mechanical royalties to songwriters, composers and publishers) 

1:01:43 - Corinne Bailey Rae, Like a Star, “Put Your Records On”

1:05:57 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

This episode’s guest is Chioma Onuchukwu, Head of TuneCore, West & East Africa. Chioma is perfectly positioned to provide insights and opinions on the African music ecosystem. Before joining TuneCore, Chioma worked as the Marketing Manager at uduX Music, a Nigerian music streaming platform, where she worked with artists like Davido, Yemi Alade, Patoranking, Kizz Daniel and more. Starting in August of 2021 she also sits on the Women in Music Nigeria board as the chapter’s Co-Chair. Based in Nigeria, Chioma oversees West Africa, including Nigeria, Ghana, Liberia, Sierra Leone and The Gambia. She also looks after East Africa: Tanzania, Ethiopia, Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, and more. Chioma is dedicated to understanding and supporting the needs of local artists, which involves education and securing partnerships beneficial to their success and the growth of TuneCore in her markets.

"I tend to see a lot of people saying that they love Afrobeats or they love one specific artist but a lot of times they won’t know where this artist is from, whether it’s from South Africa, Nigeria, or anywhere else."

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

00:10 - Byta.com

01:48 - Chioma Onuchukwu

02:07 - TuneCore

02:41 - Master's degree

04:14 - African Music Market

05:33 - South Africa

09:14 - African popular music, The music industry in Africa today

09:30 - Grammys

10:00 - African streaming service Boomplay

11:31 - Afrobeats, Best African music

13:39 - Amapiano

14:43 - James Brown

15:49 - Highlife: Prince Nico Mbarga: Sweet Mother, an example of Afrobeats: WizKid - Don't Dull 

17:44 - Ghana music, Nigerian music

20:00 - #HowWeListen

21:00 - Music Business Academy by Godwin Tom, Godwin Tom & Sony

22:00 - Juls

25:00 - Women In Music, Women In Music, Nigeria

30:54 - African sub-genres

33:00 - African music conferences

34:00 - The 4 P’s of marketing

40:00 - Ice T, Power record

44:00 - Grants

45:40 - Afrochella

46:00 - Lagos music festival

48:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

This episode's guest is Michelle Cable, founder of Panache Booking and Panache Management. Michelle Cable founded Panache in 1998. Live music is quickly returning as artists scramble to get back out on the road. In a pre-COVID world, touring was becoming key to monetising a music career. After putting everything on hold for 24 months, “live” has never been more important. What does the future hold? Panache has been in the touring industry for over two decades and has always adapted alongside the live music industry as it has evolved. Michelle has had an incredible journey from 14-year-old Fanzine founder & publisher in Eureka, California, to a key player in touring and management. Panache prides itself in its ability to stay independent, resolute, and specifically cater to each of their Artist’s individual needs while helping them have sustainable careers while still maintaining its indie ethos. As both a booking agency and a management company, Panache led by Michelle have a unique perspective on helping to guide musicians’ careers, now more than ever. 

“I’ve always evolved when I needed to and that has worked for me so far.  With booking, it was more straightforward and short term but with management, it’s more of a longer-term process over many years.”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:12 - Panache Booking

2:12 - Panache Artist Management

3:18 - Eureka, California

5:34 - Humboldt State University

5:40 - The White Stripes

7:17 - The Flaming Lips

7:20 - Scott Booker

7:35 - Raining Sound

7:45 - The Hives

10:10 - Panache Magazine #26

12:00 - Humbolt Country weed

12:10 - Twin Peaks

13:59 - Arcata

14:53 - Denny's

15:00 - Bummer Fest

17:50 - Shellshag

22:04 - AEG and Live Nation

23:12 - Ty Segall

23:30 - Mac DeMarco

26:50 - Black Flag Tour Callendar

30:42 - Peaches

32:34 - ​​The 48 Laws of Power

36:51 - SheSaid.So

38:00 - Music Industry

41:00 - Jenny Kaufman

42:50 - Talent buyer

1:06:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

In the digital age do bands no longer have to break out of their small town, then leap to the big city to conquer their country in order to go international? What does community mean in the music streaming era? It is easier to get on an international playlist but is anyone listening? Marc speaks with  Sarah Hamilton, Regional Manager for Australia & New Zealand at Ditto Music. Marc and Sarah talk about the best steps that artists can take to self realize their goals, “Stay Independent”. Sometimes it can be hard to promote yourself, but no one else will. Sarah explains how she pitches Australian music to the world.  Sarah also talks about the charity she co-founded called One of One. A website that highlights women and non-binary people in the music industry. Sarah has been working in digital distribution in Australia since 2008, with a short stint in New York City. She loves working with independent artists and seeing them gain access to the same opportunities as artists signed to major labels. 

“I do start by asking artists questions to gauge what they’d be like to work with and how well they know the market. It’s a bit of a red flag when I ask someone what kind of artists they like or might be similar to, and they say that they don’t listen to music or are just concentrating on themselves.”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:08 - Gig Life Pro

3:45 - Kulin Nations

4:51- Ditto Music in New Zealand and Australia 

5:20 - One of One

5:58 - Queensland

7:44 - Netflix

10:37 - Ditto, DistroKid, CD Baby, Ditto Plus

14:06 - Joanna Cameron, The Power 50, One of One events

16:52 - Huw Stephens

25:23 - Canadian bands

35:37 - AViVA, My Chemical Romance, 

36:30 - YouTube, Mr Suicide Sheep

37:00 - AViVA Book

40:16 - Qsic, Soundtrack Your Brand

41:52 - Junior Foster, Napster

44:59 - Timeline

45:59 - Ditto Philippines

47:50 - Filipino R&B

48:00 - MUNGMUNG

49:34 - Solomon Islands/Papua New Guinea, Record label

50:00 - Afrobeat in Australia

50:49 - Ghana

51:49 - Wallace

57:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

YouTube is the second-largest search engine in the world, but how do emerging artists best maximise their promo power there? How does one secure maximum discoverability?

Marc speaks with Corbyn Asbury, Label Relations Manager at YouTube, If you are not quite sure what YouTube has to offer to the music community, Corbyn has you covered.  He explains some of the tools that YouTube are continually working on in order to specifically help musicians? He also worked at Apple and Universal Music. Corbyn joined YouTube (owned by Google) at the start of 2018 to help with the launch of YouTube Music. Since then, he has worked on large scale campaigns with superstar artists, including Little Mix, The 1975, Dua Lipa, and Mabel. Corbyn also led YouTube’s emerging artist program, Artist On The Rise, which is all about breaking new artists and amplifying music’s most compelling up-and-comers. Corbyn is your indie on the inside. Marc and Corbyn discuss tips and tricks when using YouTube to launch new music. Strategies and the best practices that can help bring more attention to both singles and full albums on the platform also gets discussed.

"YouTube.com is pretty much all algorithmic, but YouTube music is a playlist system so it takes you out of the echo chamber that you might get into on youtube.com and give you more of a genre or theme-specific playlist experience. It’s primarily audio with a bit of video, but 80% of the consumption that happens is audio first and background listening."

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:07 - Google

3:14 - Today At Apple Program

5:50 - Label Relations Manager

6:51 - Liverpool Sound City

7:00 - YouTube History

9:36 - YouTube’s Official Artist Channel.

10:00 - YouTube Premieres

12:48 - YouTube Music

15:33 - Gen Z

17:59 - YouTube 1st Video

22:58 - Youtube Shorts

27:27 - Foundry Fund

28:00 - MMF (Music Managers Forum)

30:15 - Metadata / Descriptions

30:26 - Edit the Metadata

31:44 - Youtube.com/trending

33:05 - Proper File Tags

35:10 - SEO (search engine optimisation)

36:43 - YouTube studio app

41:24 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

What goes into curating, booking and presenting Europe’s largest festival and conference dedicated to the discovery of new music? Marc’s guest, Adam Ryan, has spent the better part of his adult life tirelessly discovering, promoting and presenting new music locally, nationally and internationally. He is now the Head of Music at The Great Escape Festival, taking place annually in Brighton, UK. How different is it curating a renowned three-day festival versus booking a venue? What can today’s artists learn about building strong live promoter relationships? Can artists book themselves onto festivals before having a team? How important is it to “be nice” to your promoter and your sound person? COVID decimated the live music community around the globe. Has any good come from an entire industry needing to pivot and re-evaluate what it means to present live music? What does the future hold for the industry? Marc asks all of these questions, whilst finding out how we all bounce back (if we have not already). 

"I always say, to be export ready, you need to have the start of a team, it could be a manager, it could be your mum! It could be anybody, just somebody who comes with you, so when you’re performing, you only have to focus on that, and somebody else is doing your networking."

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

1:00 - The Great Escape

1:49 - Farringdon

4:19 - Radio One

4:29 - The Great Escape Conference

5:34 - Towcester (pronounced toaster)

5:40 -  Fred Perry

5:45 -  Barfly

9:03 - Creation

9:34 - KOKO

10:47 - Mama and Comp., Jon Mack, Reading & Leeds, Martin Elbourne, Glastonbury,

13:21 - Independent Promoters

14:55 - Partners, Showcases

16:49 - The First Fifty

23:55 - French export office, Sounds Australia, CIMA(Canada), Estonia, 

24:30 - Mac Demarco

27:13 - Korea

29:03 - Canadian Music Associations

30:05 - USA

30:37 - Holland Music Festival

32:44 - Export ready

34:56 - The Great Escape online events

36:00 - Cancelled events

40:44 - Huw Stephens

41:37 - #HowWeListen, music discovery

42:04 - Coldplay

46:16 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Understanding and planning for multiple angles in an artist’s career can be challenging. Today, full “services” for artists can mean many things. Twenty years ago one record label looked around and realised they might have to do more than just release recordings if their artists were to see any success. Marc is joined on this episode by Bonsound Co-founder and Managing director Gourmet Délice. Bonsound is a music company offering multiple types of services to artists. Established in a very unique marketplace: Quebec, Canada.

Bonsound is an organisation that works at the service of its artists and does not own their intellectual property. The company offers a full range of professional and personalised services to contribute to the sustainable development of the careers of its artists.

They are a record label, music publisher, booking agency, concert producer, artist management and PR team. They also run two sub-labels: Make It Rain and Blow the Fuse records.

“(Bounsound) came out of a necessity for me and my other 2 business partners, and also the needs of musicians in Montreal. It has snowballed into a 30-employee company doing all of these services in the music industry. It created a kind of movement. We looked around and we saw that there were no services that understood the philosophy of the underground bands we were working with and also offered services at a reasonable price.”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:15 - Unison Fund

7:23 - Gourmet

9:19 - Montreal

10:53 - The Hives / Buzzcocks

12:40 - Dare To Care Records

19:31 - Malajube

19:35 - City Slang

19:40 - DJ Champion

22:07 - Pop Montreal

22:07 - Third Side Music

22:15 - Montreal -40

23:48 - SXSW

44:50 - Canada Council

44:55 - FACTOR

44:60 - CALQ

1:00:00 - Here To There

1:04:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

“From a delivery standpoint, having your cover art, your audio and your metadata nice and early is really important. Assets like photos for your marketing efforts should all be in a folder where everyone can easily access them from the get-go. Similarly, I’d be thinking about your video content very early too. It’s less of a concern getting your short-form videos out early as a lot of them like Instagram or TikToks are in real-time, but music videos and things like that can be done early. “

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:23 Phil’s band, AWAL

4:56 Getting “There”

7:00 Getting noticed

17:53 Byta.com

24:59 Huw Stephens on #HowWeListen Live

27:00 Mike Warner’s book Work Hard Playlist Hard 

34:38 Bandcamp, merchandise focused

38:24 Junior Foster

39:37 LAUV album 

41:36 Spotify daily uploads

49:41 Paid marketing

50:26 SubmitHub and PlaylistPush, B00ST.com

57:00 Collaboration, Mental health

1:04:00 Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

“If you are a new artist, I feel that you need to not only think about streaming platforms and DSPs but you need to be, now that the world is re-opening, you need to be out there playing live. If you can. You need to be growing your social following, your fanbase. You have to do that because before you get to us, you need to be your best you. You need to understand your stuff, you need to know what your fans like, and you need to be building that fanbase because when you come to us, in the same way, you would’ve gone to radio, we will be asking you “Ya, ok we like this music but what else is going on?” Then we need to have those conversations.”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

3:39 London Sound System

5:23 Head of Global artists relations 

9:26 J Balvin

17:19 Deezer playlists

22:00 Byta.com

22:33 #HowWeListen

27:17 Lewis Capaldi

31:54 Gerry Cinnamon

34:39 Inversions 80s

36:00 Holly Humberstone, Benny Sings, Laura Mvula, CSS

38:15 Amber Horsburgh

39:00 ASMR campaign, ASMR explained

41:00 Tom Jones whispering it to you, Alicia Keys

41:30 Beethoven Re-Mix

44:00 Fresh List, Brand New UK

45:52 Dry stream

55:27 Squat raves 

1:02:00 Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Amber runs a music strategy newsletter called Deep Cuts, which is read by 15,000 music industry professionals globally. This led to her recently founding The School of Deep Cuts. The course is the sum of every tool, case study, best practice and quick tip she has learned and implemented throughout her career in helping to break artists. Amber has worked in NYC, LA, Seoul & Melbourne. 

“I think releases are your gateway into the music industry, it’s what you build your brand off of. If you don’t have the music, nothing else can happen. We’re in a very singles focused market, and I always encourage artists to treat each of those singles as a mini-campaign and come up with a blueprint for every release, that’s repeatable. In doing so, every time you launch and relaunch you learn so much more that will make your promotion more effective.”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

1:42 - Amber’s #HWL interview

5:43 - Deep Cuts, Blog

8:30 - SFX, EDM festival, OneLove

11:17 - School of Deep Cuts

17:58 - Byta.com

32:00 - Gatekeepers, brand building

36:47 - Huw Stephens

38:30 - Jenny Kaufman

42:25 - Triple R Radio

46:00 - Release timeline, Toolbox

53:45 - North Star

1:02:00 - Marketing

1:04:00 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

“I think people get overwhelmed by the fact that there are so many places that you could be looking at, so I think the first thing to do is kind of think about what has worked for you. As an artist or manager, you probably intuitively know some of those things, and you don’t need the data to tell you. Then experiment a bit. Let’s start with something really simple. Let’s say Spotify is your strongest platform and then figure out the other part of it, what’s your strongest social platform. Is it TikTok? Is it Twitter? It’s it Facebook? Is it Instagram?”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

1:15 - Christine Osazuwa

2:00 - All Time Low, Warped Tour

5:00 - Python

6:00 - Nigerian in Sweden, Chief Data Officer, Burna Boy

10:00 - Posting Jobs

11:20 - Baltimore Music

13:53 - YouTube

17:41 - Metadata panel

19:00 - Merch/sales

24:00 - Street Team

35:00 - Jenny Kaufman

36:15 - Measure of Music 

47:00 - Representation in the Music Industry

51:29 - UK Music Diversity Report

54:57 - Christine web site / Blog

1:03:00- Chocolate City Music

1:06:00 -  Byta.com, The Featured Artists Coalition (FAC)

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Bruno talks about his journey into the music industry by way of the USA and then his return to Brazil and we are introduced  into the way the Brazilian music industry works and how it developed. Brazil as a cultural phenomenon & how digital played a part in that happening. Marc and Bruno also talk crossing over into the Spanish and English speaking worlds. 

“...I started in music about fifteen years ago here in Brazil. Long story short, I moved to Los Angeles in 2010 and I had the opportunity to work at Sony Music in the Latin division. I stayed there for a couple of years before I returned to Brazil to work in different parts of the music industry.  I was invited to join Tunecore in 2020 to start strategic operations in Brazil. Then it extended it to all of Latin America which is an amazing opportunity to bring Tunecore to this part of the world. The first step for any local artist is to not think outside of your market. For a Brazilian musician to be successful, they need to be a successful artist in their country. This is one of the most important and difficult steps in their career, to develop their music and career inside of their own country.”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:00 - Rio

2:30 - Stockholm

3:18 - SONY Latin Music

6:40 - TuneCore

10:00 - DSPs

16:11 - Brazilian Funk

19:33 - Sertanejo, Reggaeton

21:35 - Anitta

28:10 - Bieber, Maluma

41:45 - Brazilian Telenovelas (Soap Operas), Chavez

51:52 - YouTube Music

53:00 - WhatApp

54:54 - North Eastern Music

56:00 - Cumbia, 

1:01 - IATEC, PUC, Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Brendan talks about his early years of hustling his music, his strategy back in the 90s grunge era, was there a formula, and how Broken Social Scene came together and found great success. Marc and Brendan also discuss Brendan’s many side hustles, even when Broken Social Scene was a going concern he was busy with other things. We also find out  how Brendan got into composing music for films and what Brendan might do if he was starting again out today.

“...I think it was just an innate sense. It's basic. You got to open up for the cool bands. You got to build up your own following, right. Then you build up your following and maybe that leads to your entering a radio station contest? And you get your songs on the radio? It was the Grunge rock era, sort of like the Bitcoin era, you know, there was money to be made. You could make money without being that talented. But because you looked a certain way you wore enough flannel or army shorts or long underwear under your army shorts,  it was possible …”

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:25 - Sled Island Music & Arts Festival

5:35 - Dodos

6:00 - Posies, Scott Kannberg

8:58 - Hhead, IRS Records, Elliot Lefko, Now Magazine

10:48 - CFNY

12:23 - Bare Naked Ladies

13:38 - Spooky Ruben

13:57 - By Divine Right

14:25 - Steal My Sunshine, Treble Charger, Cookie Duster

17:37 - Charles Spearing, Kevin Drew, KC Accidental

23:35 - Paperbag Records

23:53 - Stewart Berman, Rough Trade Records

26:11 - Jeffrey Remedios, 

29:09 - David Newfeld

34:34 - Bruce McDonald

34:58 - Love Crimes, Snow Cake, Half Nelson

40:22 - Stereolab / Beetle

43:03 - Fitzcarraldo

49:42 - Much Music

54:26 - Howard Billerman

1:03 - Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

During her time at Terrorbird, Jenny facilitated campaigns for Toro y Moi (Carpark Records), Jay Som (Polyvinyl Records), Cloud Nothings (Carpark Records), and Hatchie (Double Double Whammy) among others. When she isn’t nerding-out about the ever-evolving digital landscape, Jenny is recharging with her three-legged tuxedo cat, Scooter.

“...I interned at The Fader for a while. I was at Beggars Group, at XL Recordings for a while. I think that breaking into the music industry just doesn't always come easy. It required a lot of tenacity and having the mentors that I'd had along the way to help me, you know, push my career forward." 

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

2:30 - Baby’s All Right

4:20 - Glassnote Records, Maggie Rogers

5:07 - Save Our Stages Act

9:00 - XL Recordings

14:10 - CD Baby

18:28 - DSP

29:34 - Virgin Megastore in Times Square

33:42 - Lorem Playlist

36:26 - Oyster Playlist

38:46 - Arlo Parks

40:53 - Paramour

41:08 - New Music Friday

44:19 - Get Out, Redbone

46:07 - Good 4 U - by Olivia Rodrigo

50:56 - Hi Fi Audio

1:00: - YouTube Music

1:07 - DistroKid

1:09 - Byta.com

Our music is by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

 Huw joined BBC Radio 1 at 17, becoming the youngest ever Radio 1 DJ. He has broadcast live from Glastonbury, Reading Festival, Sonar, South by Southwest, and Eurosonic on BBC Radio 1, as well as broadcasting live from Radio 1’s own Teen Awards and Big Weekend. His passion for new music has meant he has been the first to champion countless new artists early on. He has contributed to BBC Radio 2, BBC Radio 4, 6Music and presented on BBC Radio Wales, and regularly presents on the BBC World Service. Huw talks about music discovery, which means sometimes being one of the only people in a club watching that new band play live for the first time. Also, the importance of musicians developing a supportive community, and how singing in Welsh can work for you.

“...I ended up in the UK, where we had hospitals that have radio stations in them. It was a big thing for DJs to get practice. If you're a geek about radio, hospital radio was the place to start. It is still brilliant and doing great things. They play artists and they take requests from the patients. It's a real community. So that's how I started and then I managed bands…"

Huw is much more than a radio DJ, he is the founder of the Swn Festival in Cardiff, Wales’ premier new music festival which he founded in 2007, and won Best Small Festival at the NME Awards in 2014. He curates the Lake Stage at Latitude Festival, which saw early appearances by The xx, Alt J, The 1975, Catfish & The Bottlemen and many more.  

Huw also DJs regularly around the UK to thousands and has DJ’d worldwide in Venezuela, Barcelona, Iceland, Norway, Austin Texas, New York, New Zealand and Patagonia. Since 2006, Huw Stephens Presents has been a monthly live music night in London’s The Social, playing host to new artists.

#HowWeListen Live: In Conversation

@BBC Radio

2:20 Focus Wales

3:27 Andy Jones

5:07 Ryan Reynolds

5:44 Cat Morris, Clwb Ifor Bach

7:46 Poptones Records

8:21 Hospital Radio

10:44 Zane Lowe, 

12:30 BBC Radio Wales

15:05 Annie Mac

18:09 Upload your Music Here

24:00 Sŵn Festival

26:30 Flohio

30:00 Break Out West

33:00 Boy Azooga

34:00 Gwenno

44:00 M for Montreal, 9Bach

47:00 Byta.com

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu

Episode Credits:

Artwork by Jen Pmphrey

Hosted by Marc Brown

Series coordinated by Jamie Ford

Produced and edited by Colin MacKenzie

Music by Fin Productions and Oliver Lyu