In the meantime, I highly recommend two things - relistening to old podcast episodes for reminders, refreshes and reinforcement of learning the principles of mindbody symptom recovery. And follow my book antics at https://www.instagram.com/remembering_redressnyc

There's going to be a short form podcast series happening with our kickstarter launch and you can get a lot of the behind the scenes and real life memory in action in conversation about body liberation, positive embodiment and the power of community. It was a formative experience in my life which informs everything that I continue to create in this world. I'm so proud of it (which wow, that's a new thing that I can now say due to this deshamifying process).

And make sure you're following my Curiosity Cure Instagram because there will be a season 3 and you won't want to miss out!

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

This episode is an introduction to Amy, her personal recovery story from chronic back pain and how that overlapped with eating disorder recovery. She's one of the most thoughtful and compassionate humans I know doing this work. I hope that you discover some powerful nuggets for your own chronic pain + symptom recovery journey from out conversation. 

Amy is a clinical social worker/psychotherapist based in Raleigh, North Carolina. She works primarily with clients who experience neuroplastic symptoms, as well as anxiety, depression, trauma, and eating disorders/body image concerns. She uses Pain Reprocessing Therapy and Internal Family Systems as primary approaches, and integrating some somatic, mindfulness and cognitive-behavioral approaches (CBT, ACT) as well. 

Additionally, Amy uses a Health at Every Size/body liberation approach when working with all clients and am passionate about providing size-inclusive care. Prior to being a psychotherapist, she practiced for 10 years as a physical therapist, specializing in working with patients with neurological conditions. After finding her own relief from chronic back pain through the mind-body approach, she began offering this work to patients as a PT. Amy eventually went back to school for clinical social work to be able to turn her focus to providing psychotherapy for clients with neuroplastic symptoms. She loves working through a holistic lens and bringing her clients thorough knowledge of both the mind and body! 

Her website:
https://3rdwavetherapy.com/provider/amy-schere-lcsw/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Not sure if I'll be doing any more podcasts this year as I'm kind of winging it this season.

I'm just about 6 weeks post surgery and I feel great! Surgery, what surgery?  

It took me a minute to edit this podcast because I picked up a holiday foster dog and he threw me off of everything, so it was slow getting this done but here it is. This episode is about how I used my mindbody practices to help me navigate physical + emotional pain post surgery.  

I think the things that stand out the most are having the ability to witness physical + emotional distress. Recognize the hurts underneath, unmet needs or unfulfilled desires and address them if possible and always use any experience and an opportunity for increasing self love, attunement and care.  

There's something sobering about surgery, even simple ones like a laparoscopic cholecystectomy. Having the skills to navigate whatever arises with a sense of compassion, equanimity and curiosity helps keep fear from running the show. It's been a humbling and powerful experience getting to know myself even better in this process of healing. And way to go body, I'm really proud of you for getting it done, celebrating the miracle that is being human and being alive.  

I hope there are some nuggets here for you to use for your own mindbody journey.  

Thank you everyone who sent me sweet messages, I so appreciate your care and affection.

Wishing you ever increasing light and joy as we enter 2026. 

Here's a useful article about the Twin Peaks Model of pain - 
https://spineandsports.clinic/blog/persistent-pain

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

And because the marathon is chock full of mindbody mastery types of moments that aren't just about pushing through or winning but are much more nuanced and powerful.  

In this episode I cite a short interview with Pauline Larkin, a runner living in Brooklyn who shared her experiences going through chemo and running the marathon. I hope you are able to take some of her pearls of mindbody wisdom that I'm so happy to share. I also link to two of my favorite running content makers, Martinus Evans and Latoya Shauntay Snell.  

Enjoy! And get out and do the thing in the body you have today!

The Instagram Interview with Pauline - 
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQeVTSLjkc7/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Also she's raising money for cancer research, please support her - https://www.instagram.com/pauline_larkin_brooklyn/

Latoya's IG - https://www.instagram.com/iamlshauntay

Martinus' IG - https://www.instagram.com/martinusevans/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

It was a great way to recap te experience of the talk that I did with colleague Amy Schere. From Sean's perspective our talk created a bit of a stir, but as many of you know, the science is out there about the mental + physical impacts of weight stigma, we're just the first ones to talk about it in relationship with neuroplastic symptoms and recovery.  

We'll be talking more about the research and materials so stay tuned but enjoy this conversation with Sean. And if you're looking for a therapist, he has room in his practice.  

Sean's website:  https://www.mindbodymedicineforchronicpain.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/my_gay_therapist/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

She's one of my treasured inner circle humans and I hope that you are as inspired by her as I am. She's someone makes imaginations into reality both for her students and for other business owners who are stepping into their own visibility. Have a listen and notice what feels like the empowered embodiment invitation for you! 

Amber Karnes is a multi-disciplinary artist and educator who’s obsessed with building community. She hosts adventure retreats where daring women can explore body acceptance through art, yoga, nature, and travel. She also coaches solo business owners how to do marketing without social media. Amber is the creator of Body Positive Yoga and the host of amberhouse, a yoga club for the rest of us. Her newest projects include a surfing retreat for complete beginners and an online community for folks who want to quit social media. Find her at amberkarnes.com.

Website link -https://amberkarnes.com

Instagram link - https://instagram.com/amberkarnesofficial

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

One of the most important practices we can build is to start to decrease our sense of threat by using trauma empowering exercises like Trigger Mapping. I first learned this activity in my Somatica Coaching Training, and of course noticed the similarities with other somatic practices like somatic tracking in Pain Reprocessing Therapy. All of this work has a similar foundation of cultivating non-judgmental awareness, a loving witness, curiosity and a felt sense of safety while doing exposure activities. They might use slightly different language but there's a lot of overlaps.  

One of the foundations of Somatica that I appreciate most is the radical acceptance of emotions and also the prioritization of pleasure. I have found adding an emphasis on pleasure in my own somatic practices have made them, well a whole lot more pleasurable to do.  

Have a listen and start to explore your own Triggers in this way. Where can you start to notice the edges and boundaries of your stress and/or responses?

Here's an article about the Science Behind Somatica - https://www.somaticainstitute.com/science-behind-somatica/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

This episode she shares her personal pain recovery story as well as some research on weight stigma, dieting, threat physiology and how to approach creating corrective experiences in healing.

Dr. Lilia Graue is a physician, psychotherapist, and mindbody healing mentor.

After living with chronic pain for more than a decade, she found freedom through an integrative mindbody approach grounded in neuroscience, mindfulness, and compassion.

Today, she supports people living with chronic pain, fatigue, long COVID, and other persistent symptoms to reconnect with safety, vitality, and agency. She also mentors fellow practitioners—therapists, coaches, and clinicians—to create trauma-integrative, relational, and sustainable healing spaces.  

With over 25 years of experience in medicine and psychotherapy, Dr. Graue’s work prioritizes consent, curiosity, and co-creation, honoring individual context, systemic influences, and the power of genuine relationship in supporting long-term change and healing. She works with people globally in both English and Spanish.

Originally from Mexico City, she currently lives in London with her husband and the two adorable rescue cats who own them, Ziggy and Lupito. In addition to her work, she loves spending time in nature, baking, reading, traveling, and enjoying live music.

Dr. Lilia Graue's website - https://liliagraue.com/

Take her in-depth mind-body assessment - https://liliagraue.com/in-depth-assessment

Sign up to her newsletter! -  https://liliagraue.com/enchanted-loom 

She also has a couple of spots open for her 1:1 mentorship programs: 

Reclaim Your Life - https://liliagraue.com/reclaim-your-life  

Replenish Your Practice - https://liliagraue.com/replenish-your-practice

Research mentioned in the conversation:

Physiologic Responses to Sensory Stimulation by Food: Nutritional Implications by RICHARD D. MATTES PhD, RD - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002822397001016

What’s Wrong With the ‘War on Obesity?’ A Narrative Review of the Weight-Centered Health Paradigm and Development of the 3C Framework to Build Critical Competency for a Paradigm Shift by Lily O’Hara and Jane Taylor - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2158244018772888

Coming to terms with fear by Joseph E LeDoux - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3939902/

Fear conditioning as a pathogenic mechanism in the postural tachycardia syndrome by Lucy Norcliffe-Kaufmann... - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10200284/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

At the heart of mindbody work we are always working with increasing safety and dialing down fear, cultivating a sense of curiosity and self kindness when difficult thoughts, feelings + sensations arise.  

I share a bit of my own health journey, my book writing and the most recent retreat I went on.  

Check it out and find those aha tidbits that help you feel even more brave, more clear on your mindbody healing path.  

I'm always happy for you to reach out and book a curiosity call! 

If you want to know more about Amber's retreats....
https://amberkarnes.com/retreats/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I went on an almost 3 week trip that involved 4 flights, 7 train rides, a few metro rides, 3 countries, 6 cities.  
And a lot of walking.
And some boat rides.
I was definitely nervous before this trip.

I was remembering last year's Galapagos trip which yes was a lot more "adventure travel" than this one.
But yanno part of the brain's job is to try to predict + problem solve the future so that you can be safe.  
So I had some prep work mentally and emotionally to do. Mostly to remind myself that whatever happens on this trip I'll be ok.
It can be a complete disaster and while I might be disappointed I'll be ok.

It's so funny when I was on my trip I had so much to say.
Now that I've been home for a month, I can't remember.

But I can remember how I feel now and I think that's important because it's tied into how I helped myself on the trip and how that subconscious programming has continued to be metabolized and integrated into my beliefs about my body, what it's capable of and how to continue on the journey of expanding my physical and emotional capacity, while decreasing a sense of fear, threat or danger.  

Traveling is definitely a place where I see fear arise for myself and my clients. There's SO MUCH unknown.

And there's so much that's out of our control and out of our routine. AND that's what makes it perfect for creating corrective experiences and new predictive coding for our brain, body + nervous system.

Listen well and think about how you can create those corrective experiences for yourself.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

As Vanessa Blackstone said in episode 47, mindbody work is akin to relationship coaching and I know no one better to talk about relationships than Maggie. Please enjoy and listen with the mindset of a what resonates with me and how can I apply these ideas for my highest benefit and deepest self connection.

Maggie Reyes is a Master Certified Life Coach & Marriage Mentor who helps high-achieving women excel in both their relationships and leadership roles without burning out or sacrificing connection. Maggie brings a practical, down-to-earth feminist, and compassionate approach to relationship transformation and personal development.

Through her signature approaches like Soul-Centered Communication and the 5 Relationship Powers framework, Maggie guides women to transform resentment into connection and overwhelm into clarity. Her clients report remarkable results - from feeling happier around their partners and resolving conflicts more quickly, to developing stronger communication skills that transfer directly to their leadership roles.

Her clients are typically executives, business owners, and professionals who read both Harvard Business Review and Brené Brown, and who value both strategic solutions and soulful approaches.

What makes Maggie's approach unique is that she works with women individually to transform their relationships - even when their partners aren't participating in the process. Through a unique blend of cognitive coaching and somatic practices, she helps clients question limiting beliefs and create new patterns that serve them better. The same skills that create extraordinary marriages translate directly to leadership effectiveness, helping her clients become more influential and impactful in all areas of life.

She's committed to helping women lead from their power, not their exhaustion, both at home and at work. Her signature concept of becoming "Sexy Besties" with your partner describes that perfect balance of deep friendship and passionate connection that characterizes thriving relationships.

Maggie met her husband on Christmas Day and has been married for over 17 years. Her Marriage Life Coach Podcast ranks in the top 2% globally, and she's the author of the bestselling Questions for Couples Journal with over 3,000 positive reviews. With more than 2,000 hours of coaching experience, Maggie makes complex concepts delightfully simple while honoring their depth.

Here's links to the episodes we discussed in the podcast - 
Episode 182 – The Hidden Power of Emotional Leadership: Why Going First Transforms Your Marriage
Move With Deb, Episode 69, Embodying Systems Thinking

Website link

https://maggiereyes.com/

Instagram link

https://www.instagram.com/themaggiereyes/

Facebook link

https://www.facebook.com/TheMaggieReyes/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I can be an anxious bunny, with big feelings but I don’t normally have fear like this. Soooooooo not fun but I got to see the opportunity in it to practice self compassion, self connection and collaborating with self through the fear.

In the world in which we cannot and do not control everything, collaboration, connection and trust are essential skills to develop and we all have our own experiences both personally, generationally and historically with these ideas. Learning how to increase your somatic curiosity can help you walk back from panic into security, from fear and flares into self trust and nervous system settling.

The mind and the body are gateways into your whole being and opportunities for healing are ever present. And we never stop being human. So please enjoy a peek into a part of my life in which I again am my own client, soothing my own fears and witnessing with so much love my own 💩.

If you know that you want judgement free support for your own exploration, please book a call and let’s talk about how this work can help you

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

To me, Rachel is a hero of self determination, someone willing to step through fear, pain, discomfort and trauma with such passion and self compassion. It's not an easy path as you will discover, but she and I share the sentiment that once you understand neuroplastic pain it's hard to view our human experience through a different lens.  

Rachel is a Doctor of Physical Therapy and pelvic pain coach who specializes in guiding women with chronic pelvic pain to heal through a holistic mind-body approach. Her own journey of healing from chronic pelvic pain inspired her to pursue this work, and she now dedicates her career to guiding and supporting others through their own paths to recovery. With years of experience in both clinical practice and coaching, Rachel empowers her clients to not only heal their pain but also to create full and empowered lives rooted in connection and intention as they heal. Her unique approach combines expert knowledge with compassionate coaching, providing women with the tools to feel safe in their bodies, live freely, and foster deeper, more meaningful connections with themselves and others as they heal. 

If you’re ready to start healing TODAY and want a clear, flexible roadmap, Beyond Chronic Pelvic Pain: The Self-Paced Course is the place to begin. You’ll learn the core mind-body and nervous system tools she used to heal—and have helped dozens of clients do the same. 
Click the link below to learn more! https://thepelvicpaincoach.com/course

https://thepelvicpaincoach.com/

https://www.instagram.com/thepelvicpaincoach/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

One of the incredible pieces of knowledge they drop is that anxiety is not an emotion, it's a coping mechanism. It's a strategy of the brain to keep us safe. We talk about all the various entry points to risk, there is in life and how pursuing freedom and our desires can lead us to creating more and more of a felt sense of safety using these tools. I hope this podcast helps you discover your embodied pathways to expansion, exposure and the ability to turn down the danger alarm bell and turn up freedom and fearlessness.

Caryn is a Brooklyn-based psychotherapist who specializes in treating the intersection of OCD, chronic pain, and sexual trauma. They are trained in Exposure & Response Prevention (ERP) and in Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), which they use to help clients create safety in moments of physical and emotional pain alike. Caryn is especially passionate about working with members of the LGBTQ+ community to heal from interpersonal and structural trauma.
 

carynsherbettherapy.com
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/caryn-sherbet-brooklyn-ny/1043122

Caryn's offering a free Chronic Pain for Freaks Workshop 
Wednesday, June 11, 7-8:30pm EST 
RSVP link
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSf2tRhAJ_Swu79Cafv2ZNvhM_Z1dyWXdLT4e5ipyHWRUw-n8w/viewform

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

In this episode, I take you through two experiences that are more aligned with emotional pain but hey you all know that can often be a trigger for physical pain, or go hand in hand with it (hey that's a great podcast idea). But I walk you through the avoidance/approach process that I used to help me transform two tender emotional experiences I was having that was causing me to avoid taking aligned actions. In the process I was able to further neutralize two stories that I've been carrying around for years, "I don't get things done" and "Being fat means I'm not worthy of love (and not currently being in a relationship is proof)."

Here's the link for a faster EFT technique - https://youtu.be/wpYjrdl7PMo?si=ida8WiV1uHo_QooE

As I say in the episode, I'm in a fierce transformation phase of my life, having finished the majority of heavy lifting of activities around my Dad's passing as well as the coming of Spring. As I get more friendly with what triggers avoidance, I'm able to gently use my tools of neuroplasticity and psychophysiological recoding processes to rewire those habitual responses from a place of self compassion and strength vs. secretly reinforcing my old belief systems. Having a self connecting intention is the key to this approach.  

I'm opening my doors for working with new clients. Please book a curiosity call and let's chat about how working together can help you feel more better more of the time. Or all of the time, don't let me create any limitations on how good it can get!

And if getting an astrology reading is something in your house of desire I highly recommend working with Miss Renee. She's been someone who has served as a touchstone for me over the years when I need just enough clarity to get me heading in the right direction. Her intentions are always to give someone back to themselves, to feel empowered in their deepest self love and connection - https://missreneehealing.com/
 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Here's a great visual describing arousal + valence as a map for emotions.
https://neurodivergentinsights.com/arousal-valence-model/

When I was able to witness and meet my emotional need in the moment my body really allowed me to stay present in a positive way and I was able to stay on task and reach my desired goal. It was a really beautiful experience of witnessing and working the mindbody tools.

I hope that this episode helps you feel witnessed and validated and given permission to feel whatever you're feeling and feel empowered by that. 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

In this podcast I share some ideas I've been using for myself to help shift my physical and emotional energy. I imagine there's at least one idea I offer here that might inspire you.

I have openings in my schedule for new clients. Have you wanted a coach to ride alongside you on your healing journey? Do you hate the words, healing journey? No problem, I can help you find just the right way for you to conceptualize these ideas and move you forward in your unique to you process. I'm kind of like one of those sleep mattress number beds, soft when you want and more firm when you need. Book a free curiosity call and let's talk.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

While we don't necessarily go through the workbook on this podcast, I really recommend you get it. Instead I was inspired by how Vanessa spoke about the idea of safety during a workshop I attended. I noticed that she didn't just lead with the idea of experiencing your symptoms through a lens of safety, but instead asked what does safety mean. And I wanted to bring in her voice both as a woman of color who works with people who have experienced trauma and might have lived experiences of marginalization from the mainstream. Safety is a feeling that can be cultivated but she suggests an empowered approach of self inquiry and curiosity, and beginning to embrace the belief, "I am not as fragile as I fear I am."  

She views PRT foundations as understand, practice, integrate, we explore how psychoeducation around neuroplastic pain, self compassionate witnessing and exposure to sensations, discomfort and stressors can become opportunities for building or rebuilding self trust. She shares so many fantastic client stories as well as her own growth and learning. I cannot wait to have her back on the podcast to share more of what will be coming from her work and The Pain Psychology Center.

I emplore you to listen, relisten and take notes on what ideas you can start to practice now. And don't forget to pick up her book!

Bio - Vanessa M. Blackstone, MSW, citizen of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians Nation, is executive director of the Pain Psychology Center. She earned her MS in social work from the University of Southern California. Following her own personal recovery from chronic pain, Vanessa began her career as a therapist in 2018. She was one of the first clinical consultants at the Pain Reprocessing Therapy Center and has helped train hundreds of practitioners in pain reprocessing therapy (PRT). In addition to chronic pain treatment, she specializes in sex therapy, substance use and recovery, mindfulness-based relapse prevention, and works on film sets as an onset wellness professional. Outside of her professional roles, Vanessa is a former foster youth who advocates for current and former foster youth by sharing her personal experiences in public speaking events. She lives in Los Angeles, CA.

Website - https://blackstonewellness.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/that.therapist

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100065282659040&mibextid=wwXIfr

Resources mentioned:
Pain Reprocessing Therapy Workbook - https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648483769/the-pain-reprocessing-therapy-workbook/

The Five Invitations - https://fiveinvitations.com/

The Pain Psychology Center - https://painpsychologycenter.com/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

We speak of the ways to think of safety both intrinsic and extrinsic to help regulate the nervous system and quiet the pain alarm even while real threats to safety are unfolding daily. We discuss how anger helps us to move out of a shut down state and motivates action. 

We deserve to feel better and cannot wait until the next election or whatever comes next. We are the ones our young parts have been waiting for. 

Phil’s IFS and journalling workshops

https://phildelahaye.com/workshops/

Article about IFS and chronic pain

https://phildelahaye.com/internal-family-systems-and-chronic-pain/

Phil’s Instagram 

https://www.instagram.com/phildelahayeifs/

Phil’s Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/phildelahayeifs

Phil’s Facebook Group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/phildelahayeifs

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Nyle Biondi, MS LMFT, is a therapist and coach, specializing in mind-body healing for chronic pain and trauma. With a deep commitment to the trans and queer communities, he helps clients break free from the physical and emotional toll of oppression, stress, and past wounds. His work integrates neuroplasticity, attachment healing, and nervous system regulation to support lasting transformation. Through therapy, workshops, and educational resources, he empowers people to reconnect with their bodies, reclaim their worth, and heal from chronic conditions at the root level.

https://www.instagram.com/healingwithinpsych

https://www.healingwithinpsychotherapy.com/

https://www.healingwithinpsychotherapy.com/blog

https://healyourchronicpain.thinkific.com/products/live_events/live-event-pain-free-pathway

https://www.healingwithinpsychotherapy.com/blog/reclaiming-your-worth-through-meditation
the meditation we discussed in the episode

Attached to the notes is also my friend Adrian's resistance poetry which is a wonderful example of self expression and self connection inspired by this political moment.
https://powerlesstoturnthetrees.substack.com/p/trans-people-were-made-to-fight-fascism

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

You aren't alone and we've hoping this conversation helps you understand a little bit more the links between your physical sensations and what's happening in the world. Acknowledging and befriending fear is one part of creating spaciousness and safety. And being rebelliously self affirming, knowing that your life is valid and even exquisite, regardless of any opinions of governments, institutions, family or anyone is another way to begin to reclaim a sense of self efficacy, subconscious security and build life sustaining connections.

Stay tuned for more conversations with The Curiosity Cure podcast. 

Sean Hershey is a therapist who helps people use mind-body work to end chronic pain and truly learn to be themselves. He is currently accepting new individual therapy and coaching clients!
https://www.mindbodymedicineforchronicpain.com/
https://www.instagram.com/my_gay_therapist/

 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I recorded this last week and then stuck my head in the sand with some family stuff and getting my taxes done and so since I've recorded it I've cracked open the seal on managing my mind + helping my body feel more safe with what's happening.  

But first what I suggest here, starting with radically naming what you're feeling is a powerful step towards lowering the distress that comes with fear, uncertainty and overwhelm which are very much part of the shock and awe tactics we are being bombarded with during these first few weeks of the new administration.  

I've started using 5 Calls to make phone calls to my elected officials to tell them that I don't agree with what's happening. It's a very helpful app that gives you a script to read if you don't like making phone calls. Phone calls are rated much higher in as far as impact over emails or letters apparently. And I've seen statistics that Republicans call more than 4-11 times more than Democrats on issues they care about.  

Geting our voices heard and practicing speaking out for what we want is a part of creating increased safety and a sense of empowered actions. It's not the only thing but feeling helpless and trapped is often a subconscious trigger for pain and we are all about working with our nervous system to help quiet the pain response and lead us to see our mind body survival strategies with more clarity.  

So while this podcast is mostly me talking about me, I have heard from so many that this helps you feel not alone in your experiences and you are not alone at all. I promise you. If you're hurting or scared, it's understandable. Wishing you continued ease even in these scary times.

I'll keep sharing and speaking and sharing recovery stories and more. Sometimes these life altering moments are the ones that can kick our healing into gear, because it's a not normal kind of moment and anything that changes our patterns can be used for good.  

Please book a curiosity call if you would like individual support in dealing with this moment.

Don't forget to get a copy of Nicole Sach's new book Mind Your Body. 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Ease is a learnable skill we can practice and apply to any situation. And once I got over laughing at myself for my very meta and oh so human experience, I was able to ask myself, what are the thoughts, feelings and actions that will help bring ease to this process. I'm very happy to be bringing this essential and underrated skill to share with you.
 

Gene Kelly in Singing In The Rain - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swloMVFALXw

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Please take good care of yourself while you're listening if listening to someone speak about death is difficult for you.

I'm back with a personal story of how mindbody wellbeing skills have helped me through the difficult time of my father's recent passing. Milton was almost 98 1/2 years old when he died earlier this month. He will be missed greatly. May his memory be a blessing for all who knew him.  

It's been a full circle experience for me, navigating elder care, covid life changes and the ongoing care of a loved on with dementia. In this episode I share my experiences of how I used my understanding of mind, body, nervous system along with memory reconsolidation and trauma empowerment to help support me during this difficult time.

I hope there's something helpful here for you to apply to your life to help make healing past hurts and helping your mindbody today sense into more safety. 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Sam is an AuDHD coach, a queer nonbinary femme (they/them), an intersectional feminist, and an elder millennial (Xennial).  They help neurodivergent adults (ADHD, Autistic, AuDHD, OCD) who have unconventional lives to understand and embrace their unique neurotypes, so they can effectively minimize stress, overcome challenges, and improve their quality of life. 

Unconventional Minds Coaching: https://unconventionalmindscoaching.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/unconventionalmindsadhd

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

There's research that shows that tracking symptoms has a dark side, increasing distress, anxiety and symptoms. And from my expereince, tracking can hamper healing and brain rewiring.  

In the episode notes I'll link to articles and studies as well as the image of The Comfort Scale. But I want to encourage you sink into your creativity and develop a way of tracking comfort that feels best to you. As with anything in mindbody practices, letting yourself be in process and explore with curiosity. 

Articles - 
https://www.wired.com/story/why-tracking-your-symptoms-can-make-you-feel-worse/

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_to_overcome_your_brains_fixation_on_bad_things

https://medicalfuturist.com/the-dark-side-of-health-trackers/

Roger's version of The Comfort Scale
https://hypnosishealthinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Comfort-Scale.pdf

If you make your own version, I would love love love to see it!

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

This rewiring process of cultivating a sense of emotional congruency is about healing the threatening gap of self rejection, judgment and exiling. When we commit to being a safe landing place for our own emotions we can expand our sense of internal and external safety and lower the threat response in our body that keeps our muscles tight, our pain alarms ringing and teaches our brain that emotions and sensations are dangerous and need to be avoided. 

There's no time like the present to start practicing how to cultivate coherence and self connection for healing.
 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

As always, with any new and acute pain, please speak to your doctor, and make sure that there's no injury or infection that needs medical care. My choices and decisions around my body are my own and not intended to be diagnostic for anyone else.

Here's the link for Lesley's book - https://bookshop.org/p/books/two-whole-cakes-how-to-stop-dieting-and-learn-to-love-your-body-lesley-kinzel/10413288?ean=9781558617933

 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

My hopes with this podcast is to inform and carry on the tradition of mindbody pioneers like Dr. Sarno who said that information and understanding are the treatment.

And it’s essential to not just talk about ideas but to give you things to practice rooted in a mindbody framework.

So today’s short practice that you can do anywhere at any time, is to help you lean in to movement with a sense of safety, curiosity and empowerment with a way of soothing and tending to your nervous system.

Listen once. Try it. Listen again. Try it again even more deeply with more understanding and listen again and again until your brain and body start to approach moving with this orientation.

Book a call with me if you want to go deeper into this work individually with me. I’d love to connect. 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Alora is the founder of ‘Befriend Your Body’ a body-positive online somatic coaching business. Her signature Body Dialogue sessions are designed to help improve the communication between the brain and body. Alora is a trauma-informed movement specialist who understands what its like to live with persistent and invisible conditions. She offers 1-1 support, guest teaching, and also collaborates with life coaches and thought leaders who want develop more embodied experiences.

You can find their work online here:

www.befriendyourbody.ca
https://www.instagram.com/body_dialogues/
https://www.facebook.com/BefriendYourBodyAsItIs
 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Today's conversation with Mattia takes us through their journey with chronic pain, feeling better, and the ways they navigate their inner mindbody conversation as someone with AuDHD + PDA. We touch upon themes of neurodivergence, gender transition, resourcing inner + external safety. We chat about using hypnotic techniques to decrease a sense of threat/unsafety that may accompany disorders like ehlers-danlos syndrome and POTS.  

Mattia Maurée is a composer, writer, and host of the AuDHD Flourishing podcast. They help other neurodivergent folks who want to build a sustainable life but struggle with the day-to-day. They have a true obsession with arctic puffins.  

Links:

Main (starter podcast page): https://www.audhdflourishing.com/hello

Like Your Brain (peer support community): https://www.patreon.com/mattia  - so good! I'm in here and love it.

Love Your Brain (course): https://www.audhdflourishing.com/challenge-page/joinlyb

 

Related recovery stories that might be of interest. Most are not my clients but they are working with the mindbody healing techniques, theories and resources that I speak about on this podcast:

S2E29 Petra's Pain Recovery Dream Life - she has EDS and recovered from chronic pain.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/s2e29-petras-pain-recovery-dream-life/id1595415545?i=1000661834736

S3 Ep33: The Neuroscience of Chronic Pain: POTS, Interstitial Cystitis, Fibro, CFS and more with Gigi
https://www.yourbreakawake.com/podcasts/the-cure-for-chronic-pain-with-nicole-sachs-lcsw-2/episodes/2148744168

First person experience using these techniques to recover from POTS and Long Covid.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LongHaulersRecovery/comments/18c8e50/100_recovered_potshi/

Ep 41 Intuitive Healing From Chronic Fatigue, POTS, Lyme Disease, Long COVID and More with Rebecca Tolin
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep-41-intuitive-healing-from-chronic-fatigue-pots-lyme/id1679033028?i=1000664796548

Morgan's TMS Success Story - Long COVID, POTS, Dizziness, Digestion, Nausea, and Food Sensitivities
https://youtu.be/IUavpJfgs50?si=Nzk26wt98r-4yTN6

S3 Ep82: Lifelong IBS, Depression, and Adult ADHD with Alice (at the end she speaks about how ADHD is connected with life long masking + stress)
https://www.yourbreakawake.com/podcasts/the-cure-for-chronic-pain-with-nicole-sachs-lcsw-2/episodes/2148744120

How I cured my Mast Cell Activation syndrome (MCAS) with Helmut 
https://youtu.be/SrG6P5N439g?si=g4Iz8ELFaCTtMQcz

Vanessa shares her shocking recovery from Pots, meniere's disease, pppd, Gastroparesis, cfs, + with Helmut
https://youtu.be/vduQns3cR3k?si=ZXqq_jghIW9j7INX

And here's a scientific article that talks about the psychiatric + nervous system symtoms that are connected with EDS. In our conversation Mattia touches upon the interoception and felt sense of danger that is associate with EDS in our conversation. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3365276/?

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Anna Holtzman is a colleague, friend and leader in mindbody pain recovery. She  is a licensed psychotherapist and mind-body coach who helps people find relief from chronic pain and other symptoms of a stressed-out nervous system. She came to this work through her own recovery from 10 years of migraine. In a prior career, Anna worked in reality TV as a video editor and she continues to use her love of storytelling through her blog and podcast, both titled From Chronic Pain to Passion. She lives in New York City with her partner, stepdaughter, and three orange cats.

I don't think I could write better than Anna to describe this episode, here's what she said about our conversation:

Deb and I are also part of a cohort of mind-body coaches who get together about twice a month and let it all hang out together, which has been so instrumental for my growth. And as we’ll talk about, it’s not always easy letting yourself be vulnerable, even in the most supportive of spaces. But what I find over and over again is that it’s so worth it, because the healing and growth that comes from allowing ourselves to connect with one another through our vulnerability and honesty is really the only gateway to joy in life, as far as I can tell.

So, here’s me and Deb getting real with each other — and with you — about what it’s like to be a beautifully messy human being who helps other beautifully messy human beings. And I hope this conversation serves as a permission slip to let your own beautiful messiness shine through.

Where you can find Anna...

website: https://www.annaholtzman.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anna_holtzman/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Have I confused you? Just listen to this and practice peeking in with gentleness about what gets you digging a hole, falling into it and then using all your energy to crawl out of it. Learn how curiosity can lead you to quick results by titrating just the right exposure of what you're avoiding that you can begin to easily neutralize it.

Meet Andrew, a bike guy who recovered from pelvic pain and is sharing his recovery journey with others. So glad he's back on the bike riding and having fun!  https://www.instagram.com/andrewmbcyclist/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I can't wait to bring this "problem" with me to Hypnothoughts Live and explore what hypnosis skills I can apply to make this feel easy, fun and successful to acheive.  
 

I hope you follow along and connect with an activity or desire you might have in your life.  
Need help, I got you!

Here's my friend Andrea's website and instagram, please follow her!
https://www.amplemovement.com/
https://www.instagram.com/amplemovement

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Petra's bio - She was a stock broker and later financial planner before kids, now she's am a Pain Recovery Coach, Mind Body Coach, certified Rapid Transformational Therapy® Practitioner and certified Hypnotherapist.

You can find Petra at https://www.painawaycoach.com/
Or via email - petraschmiderllc@gmail.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

What might be different for you in 3 months if you learned how to master these mind body connection skills?

Here's the TLDL (too long, didn't listen) list of permissions:
Permission to be weird
Permission to go at your own pace
Permission to take breaks
Permission to enjoy
Permission to use a mobility aid
Permission to not worry/plan about the future

I'm sure there's even more permissions to be granted out there that are personal to you.
What would help you feel even more better?

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Here's a little article about neuroplasticity and curiosity for some encouragement.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brain-reboot/202311/the-psychology-and-neuroscience-of-curiosity

 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Here's Dani in her own words, I specialise in the care of the chronic condition/mind-body medicine community, having healed from years of chronic pain and anxiety using mindbody tools myself. My approach to healing harnesses the power of the nervous by training the body-mind into a place of safety and out of survival mode. I teach gentle yoga, meditation and breathwork tailored to the self-healing community and coach in the form of online courses and masterclasses.

Please be sure to check out Dani's work and listen for clues to help you borrow belief that healing is possible for you and that this journey can be full of connection and compassion both with ourselves and with community. 

Dani's website that has everything. 
https://mytmsjourney.com

Instagram 
https://www.instagram.com/mytms_journey

Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/mytmsjourney

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

When PT was only making my pain feel worse, I uncovered some relational fears and talk you through my current process and how I'm helping my mind and body find safety, create the environment for healing and how I re-found a mantra "Strong Like Simba." 

Here's links for all the awesome resources I describe in the podcast.  

Journal Speak - https://www.thecureforchronicpain.com/journalspeak
More about Journal Speak - https://mytmsjourney.com/resources/journalspeak-by-nicole-sachs-lcsw/

Charlie Merrill, PT - https://www.mperformance.com/beyondpaineducation
His IG is awesome - https://www.instagram.com/charliemerrill/

My article about my Kilimanjaro trip - https://cnocoutdoors.com/blogs/blog/deb-curvy-kili-crew

Indigo's Testimonial - https://www.thecuriositycure.coach/p/client-results

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Article about the Twin Peaks of Pain - 
https://longevitypt.com.au/blog/how-to-explain-chronic-pain/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I guess that's an upside to being a pain coach, everything is content?  

Well I'm sharing with you Part 1 - Navigating Disappointment.

Have a listen!  

There will be more coming next week.

Here's the breakdown of our trip 
https://www.whoatravel.com/whoa-plus-galapagos#breakdown

Video to follow along of me teaching the backwards spin exercise
https://youtu.be/cM0xuZkhZRQ?si=YzYD6ZwgC9GyfDzh

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Phil has his own history of chronic pain recovery and he’s passionate about supporting others through their own process of healing. He and I have a fantastic conversation that can only happen when two people who speak the same language and share some overlaps in our experiences of chronic pain and our healing as well as how we help our clients feel better. We talk about the impacts of stress on various communities like queer + trans people and the overwhelming overlaps of pain conditions and medically unexplained symptoms that we are seeing. 

If you've heard of IFS but have never thought about applying it to MindBody Healing work. Phil shares how IFS can help and his three things that everyone with pain should know.

You can join Phil's facebook group here -  
Phil de la Haye: IFS and Mindbody Healing

His IFS facebook page with some resources - 
https://www.facebook.com/phildelahayeifs

Instagram - 
https://www.instagram.com/phildelahayeifs/

Check out his website -
https://phildelahaye.com

Link to the research article about chronic pain + sexual minorities - 
https://journals.lww.com/pain/fulltext/2023/09000/chronic_pain_among_u_s__sexual_minority_adults_who.8.aspx?

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Uncertainty and stress: Why it causes diseases and how it is mastered by the brain.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301008217300369

Articles about Interoception:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/aug/15/the-hidden-sense-shaping-your-wellbeing-interoception

Interoception and Emotion
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28950976/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I'm reading to you a script I discovered in a great overview document from the VA. 

I also share the research about this practice showing that it's a very effective self led activity to help with pain + fear reduction. Which of course are the two main issues with neuroplastic pain. 

Here's the PDF from the VA - 
https://www.va.gov/WHOLEHEALTHLIBRARY/docs/Autogenic-Training.pdf

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Let's face it, work often has a lot of pressure, demands both internal and external, as well as complex social landscapes that can be challenging to navigate. How we deal with our physical body at work can be a trigger for ongoing pain. Learning how to attune and tend to ourselves in these environments can help and change is possible.  

On this podcast we unpack how approaching pain in a light and joyful way can be incredibly helpful and healing. And how pain management actually has parallels to other challenges in our lives, including work drama.  

To get in touch with Maria:
Book a free consult call: restovergrind.com/work-with-me
Check out the mini series on tackling people pleasing and perfectionism to heal from burnout: restovergrind.com/free-mini-series
Email: info@restovergrind.com
Instagram and TikTok: @rest_over_grind

To get in touch with Natasha:
Instagram: @natashatekeste
Website: natashatekeste.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

The work of neuroscientist Dr. Les Fehmi and his wife, therapist Susan Shor Fehmi, explores practices to help us reach a state of synchronous alpha brain waves and how it helps us manage stress and dissolve pain. I share with you an Open Focus practice and some information from their books and research. 

I've ramped up my practice of Open Focus and it's been helping me relax my mind and body and feel more grounded, centered and emotionally even keeled. I believe open focus training is an essential and simple practice to add to our mindbody tool kit to help us rewire our brains out of pain.

Here's some of the resources I used for this podcast and further reading about Open Focus.

The Main website for all things Open Focus
https://openfocus.com/

Article by The Fehmi's for Thrive
https://medium.com/thrive-global/dissolving-stress-open-focus-training-e0434e3fb238
 

A review of Open Focus from a meditation teacher
https://www.wildmind.org/blogs/book-reviews/the-open-focus-brain-by-dr-les-fehmi-jim-robbins

Open Focus in Science Direct
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0193953X1300004X?via%3Dihub

Mastering Our Brain's Electrical System
https://www.academia.edu/6496037/Mastering_Our_Brains_Electrical_Rhythm


Attention to Attention: An Introduction to Attention Styles, Open Focus and Object-Less Imagery
https://www.consciousness-quotient.com/attention-to-attention-an-introduction-to-attention-styles-open-focus-and-object-less-imagery/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Melissa Tiers is the founder of The Center For Integrative Hypnosis, and co-founder of the Ethical Coaching Collective.  

She is also a multi-award-winning author, coach, hypnosis trainer, and a three-time recipient of the International Medical and Dental Association's prestigious Pen and Quill Award for her books.

Starting in March she has an integrative hypnosis training for anyone who's curious about adding this modality to their work.
https://www.melissatiers.com/hypnosis-training

Instagram  
https://www.instagram.com/melissatiers/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

https://med.stanford.edu/sbfnl/services/bm/lm/bml-fear.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/contextual-fear-conditioning

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/fear-conditioning

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1074742710000845

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165178116308770

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Website - https://www.narrative-drive.com/

YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@narrativedrive

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/narrativedrive/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Study on Painkillers and Emotional Pain
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/feb/18/painkiller-emotional-pain-acetaminophen-paracetamol

Application of a Clinical Approach to Diagnosing Primary Pain: Prevalence and Correlates of Primary Back and Neck Pain in a Community Physiatry Clinic
https://www.jpain.org/article/S1526-5900(23)00544-8/fulltext

LA Times Article - Opinion: That pain in your back? It’s really a pain in your brain.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2024-01-29/chronic-pain-health-wellness-mind-body

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Power Plus Wellness - https://www.powerpluswellness.com/

Body Liberation Hiking Club NYC - https://www.instagram.com/bodyliberationhikingnyc/

Curves With Moves - https://www.instagram.com/curveswithmoves/

Baila With Kayla - https://www.instagram.com/bailawithkyla/

My YouTube has videos of my sharing these pattern interrupts for you to practice along with. 

https://youtu.be/9yYgamdUblY?si=hubV8JS7v_lqDEpC

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

The  Scientific Benefits of Self-Compassion
https://ccare.stanford.edu/uncategorized/the-scientific-benefits-of-self-compassion-infographic/

About 70 minutes in there's a simple explanation of neuroplasticity
https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/a-science-supported-journaling-protocol-to-improve-mental-physical-health

Self Compassion Research 
https://self-compassion.org/the-research/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Website  
https://schoolofnewfeministthought.com/

Podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unf-ck-your-brain/id1229434818

I forgot to mention on the podcast that I'm certified as a Feminist Coach in Kara's advanced coaching certification which helps bring the lens of socialization insdie the coaching container. We understand our thoughts are not just ours, born entirely of our own making. No we've learned them from a patriarchal society that has deeply sexist embedded ideas of who women are.

Which is why the coaching we did on Joan's hair wasn't just about hair, it was about agency, ageism, and saying f.u. to the Patriarchy's opinions about what's right for women to choose around their hair and what they buy and their appearance in general. 

If you are craving a coaching container that's not just about SMART goals and getting stuff done but how we can pair action and deprogramming unhelpful subconscious beliefs, let's chat!

I've got spaces available for individual clients working one on one. I'm looking forward to connecing with you! 

 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I'm also nice. 

And fun. 

And on your side! 

I've got spaces available for new individual clients working one on one. I'm looking forward to connecing with you! 

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/curiositycure.coach/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.coach/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

A great description of The Twin Peaks of Pain  - https://longevitypt.com.au/blog/how-to-explain-chronic-pain/

 

If you're ready to explore hiring a coach - I've got spaces available for new individual clients working one on one. I'm looking forward to connecing with you! 

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Email - CoachCallieK@gmail.com

YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@coachcallie5968

If you liked this episode let me know! I want to continue to create podcasts that are informative and interesting.

If you're ready to explore hiring a coach - I've got spaces available for new individual clients working one on one.

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You can find out more about adrienne maree brown's books, podcast and more here - https://adriennemareebrown.net/

Books can be ordered directly from AK Press here - https://www.akpress.org/catalogsearch/result/index/?p=2&q=adrienne+marlee+brown

If you want to get curious about what mindbody coaching is all about let's chat. 

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2. - Tor Wager - https://home.dartmouth.edu/news/2021/10/chronic-pain-changing-your-attitude-may-give-relief

3. Christie Uipi - https://www.lin.health/insights/christie-uipi-pain-self-compassion

4. Dr. Sarno - https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/75116.John_E_Sarno

5. Some dude who read Sarno - https://www.juiceboxpodcast.com/blog/2011/12/12/stress-back-pain-howard-stern-and-my-friend-mike.html

6. Alan Gordon - https://charmaustin.com/healing-and-managing-chronic-pain/

7. Lorimer Moseley - https://trustmephysiotherapy.com/50-shades-of-pain-with-lorimer-moseley/

8 -  Dr. Howard Schubiner - https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/2626302.Howard_Schubiner

9 - Dani Fagan - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11784163/I-went-bedbound-three-years-yoga-guru.html

10 - Lisa Feldman Barrett - https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/1332670.Lisa_Feldman_Barrett?

11 - Dr. Yoni Ashar - https://www.oneyoufeed.net/neuroplastic-pain/

If you want to get curious about what mindbody coaching is all about let's chat.

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This also gives you the opportunity to experience what it feels like to be working with me. 
If you have been wanting to commit to changing your mindbody experience but something has been holding you back, try a taste. If you do go on to signing up for continued work, I'll take $100 off the cost.

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We can't always guarantee any result, our bodies are designed to feel things. So trying to live an entirely pain free life is unrealistic. So instead of striving for a singular goal of getting rid of a symptom or a sensation, we cultivate a quality of loving attuned attention which helps break the pain-fear-pain cycle and mess up the prediction in the brain's predictive code. It's a kind of curiosity that's not about finding the RIGHT answer but the kind of curiosity that expands our senses, knowing, familiarity and awareness of our conditioned responses, associations and presumptions that our brain and nervous system uses to keep us safe.

If you want to get curious about what mindbody coaching is all about let's chat.

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50% off code is FIRSTFIVE

https://www.joanchanmd.com/learnstore/p/getting-curious-about-chronic-pain-workshop

Here's Joan's podcast - https://www.joanchanmd.com/podcast

And to book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Article referenced in podcast - https://thelavinagency.com/we-live-in-the-past-david-eagleman-on-our-perception-of-time-video/

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https://humansystems.co/body-sensations-wheels/

https://humansystems.co/emotionwheels/

https://www.focusforhealth.org/gratitude-our-bodies-natural-anti-depressant/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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All MRI’s Are Abnormal video - https://youtu.be/czVW8wD-mHc?si=Tv4RZ_ZKPAUhnRfs

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[00:00:36] Out of pain and emotional overwhelm to help you build the rich full life that you want to live. Disclaimer, this is not a replacement for medical care.

[00:00:56] Welcome to Move with Deb, the podcast soon to be Retitled, the Curiosity Cure. And today I just wanted to share some experiences I had this weekend. I was helping a friend move her cats to Kansas. Not just her cats. She moved to Kansas. She had two cats, and you need two people to move two cats on a plane.

[00:01:24] I'm happy that she's starting this new chapter in her life. And while that has some anxiety and fear that comes along with it, it also brings with it this excitement, this sense of new beginnings. I feel very privileged and honored to get to be a witness to this blossoming of this new home and new relationship and lots of newness.

[00:01:50] And moving is one of the top five most stressful things that you can experience. And I was not moving, but I was participating in helping my friend, I was helping her move and previously had helped her pack for other moves. She's moved multiple times this year, which is, you know, hello, compounding stress, hello, cost of living in a very expensive place, there's just added stress that goes along with that and stress affects our bodies, but also stress is not necessarily intrinsic to the experience, it's also how we relate to the experience. And what I observed what we do when we are trying to either solve a problem, deal with a stressor, create change, are we winding ourselves up? You can't see my finger, but my finger is literally like winding up or we winding ourself down. Winding down the distress and the stress calming our bodies and our nervous system, or we like just staying the same. Are we riding the ride of life?

[00:03:08] So, one of the things my friend shared with me, she's incredibly brilliant and just the most lovely human being, but she also is really well practiced at having anxiety. And so one of the things that she had said to me was, you know, from the moment I get up in the morning, I just am like thinking about and fixating on getting these cats safely through the airport experience.

[00:03:35] And her cats are a little feisty or maybe a lot feisty, so she had a lot of worries because you have to take the cat out of the bag. You can request a private room, you have to take a cat out of the bag and hold it while they scan the bag and then they wipe down your hands. And this is part of our process of flying with the t s a.

[00:03:56] This is what she thinks about every single day. And we do have to think about things to create solutions. Like she had to know what the rules were and have the right equipment, and have the right things to show up to the airport to have the cats be able to get on the plane and go through that process safely.

[00:04:17] So you can't just show up at an airport with some cats and be like, oh, okay, cool. You'll just let me on the plane. Right? So there is the process of knowing what it is that you need to know about anything, what, whatever it is that you're trying to create in your life. And then there's the process of the problem solving. Are there things here that I need to acquire? Are there papers that I need to get printed? Or is there a vet visit that I need to do before traveling? And like gathering all of that information and also completing the tasks that there are to do.

[00:04:52] Then there's the experience that we're having about the situation and that's like where my work comes in, right? If you're spending your whole day every day, and the way that you wake up in the morning is you start ruminating and fixating and hyper-focused with a lot of intensity, fear, anxiety, overwhelm, and you know, and really running worst case scenarios over and over and over, your body will reflect that stress.

[00:05:28] When I help my clients think about stress, we can't control all the stressors in our life, but we can control making stressful things more stressful or less stressful. So some of this is about how we relate to the stressors in our life. So as her friend, I knew that my job was to be calm and helpful. Right? So these are her cats. This is her plan. She said bring gardening gloves. I brought gardening gloves, actually brought two. So I was prepared to help in whatever way I was being asked to help. But I also knew that what would really be helpful is if I were really calm. And also I had practiced imagining this process going really smoothly. I watched some YouTube videos just to kind of have a vision in my mind of what it would be like to go take the cats through the experience. She was very, very prepared and talked me through it, and I just got the sense like, okay, it's gonna be my job to be kind of like the backup, hold the cat, do these things, but I knew that the quality of my energy and the quality of my attention where it would be really, really valuable is being this kind of safe home base.

[00:06:59] We, we talk about that in pain reprocessing in creating a kind of a sensory home base, a safe sensory home base. I really viewed myself in that role. So that was what I practiced. I love this idea of mental rehearsal because it's Very proven and supported by science. There's all kinds of really cool studies, people controlling their vo2 max, their, the amount of oxygen they get in their bodies, just through thoughts and through rehearsing. So we, we know that our thoughts have a direct effect on our bodies, and we also know that when we are in an anxiety state, oftentimes our body sensations kind of feel very loud, right? Our heart is beating, pounding, we might be really keyed into what's happening in our bodies. Maybe our breath feels shallow and hard to access, and then there might be a tension in your belly or your hands or your neck or your back.

[00:08:07] So all of that tension, the shallow breathing, the intense sensory. This, what, how do I wanna say this? The self-awareness about the sensory experiences also can create more fear, right? When your heart is pounding and now you start freaking out because the way your heart is pounding and it's a reflection of what is happening on the inside. And we can create more relaxation in this process. So I was having this chat with her and I was like, well, no wonder this has been very stressful. Yes, there is the stress of it, and yes, there is the stress of your cats being these little tiny murder experts, right? They're, they're lethal, these little cats of her. So I believe her when she says that they are very good at biting and scratching people, but at the same time, waking up every day practicing and amplifying and increasing the worry and distress is a, a counter useful strategy because it's not gonna change anything for the cats.

[00:09:25] What it might do is put you into a sympathetic Nervous system mode where you are on more high alert, and so your attention and focus might narrow and that might feel like being really good at problem solving, because right now your whole worldview is super narrow and you can't see me, but my hands are going out from wide into this very narrow, and you get this narrow focused tunnel vision.

[00:09:55] And it's very hard to pull yourself away and see anything else other than what you are seeing in this tunnel vision. Some of the work I do with my clients is helping them break out of tunnel vision mode and zooming out into a broader view. We can do that with shifting into a peripheral vision or sometimes we take a, a journey from whatever the narrow focus is and putting it in a larger context. Sometimes we play with that in metaphor. So we'll take whatever the problem state is, whatever the issue is that's bothering you, that you kind of can't stop thinking about. You can't stop obsessing about this one thing, and in a lot of ways we're practicing we're creating mental rehearsal. You are creating mental rehearsal with that problem state, and what's everything else that you're not doing? What's everything else that you're not thinking about or not focusing on? That's also happening, but it's not really in your awareness.

[00:11:03] So this is a lot about this interplay between attention, awareness, activity, emotions... and we can tell pretty quickly what happens in the body when we shift into a larger view. So I did this with a client the other day and they were talking about where they lived. So I was like, okay, cool. Well let's just think about your house.

[00:11:28] And then think about like being in your house and thinking about then your house on the block. Think about your house in the town. And then think about the town is in a city and the city is in a state, and the state is in a country, and the country is on a continent. The continent is on a planet, you know, and we just kept pulling the vision out and you know, they had gone into a relaxed state and their eyes were closed and they were just imagining all of these metaphors being, going through that mental rehearsal journey. And when they came out of it, we got all the way to the galaxy, or to the universe, or to the metaverse. And one of the things that I realize is, I don't know, the order of things when we get out into space, but also it's a metaphor. We're making it up.

[00:12:26] One of the things that they had said was their breath felt more relaxed, so the tension in their body ease, the tension in the diaphragm eased, and then the breath felt more ready to be taken in. Right? We need that beautiful, lovely, incredible oxygen that our body uses, and being able to feel relaxed when you're breathing is a direct communication to our nervous system that we are safe, right? So expanding into peripheral vision, out of a narrow vision directly communicates to our nervous system to like bring down the high alert. So sometimes we do this through our thinking brain, sometimes we do it through our body, sometimes we do it both.

[00:13:15] I love that part about hypnosis is that we really just get to invite our imagination in. So we can just start by asking ourselves, what is it that we're practicing? I've been inviting in a practice of, and I mentioned this on a previous podcast, of really bringing an ease to my day. Not starting my day, believing that I'm already behind, that there's so many things that I have to do that there's a lot of obstacles before signing new clients or being successful or taking action in my business, you know, and those are cognitive, whether they're, we wanna call them distortions or beliefs or just thoughts that wander in habitual practices of thinking. I really believe in the ability to change that. So, but first we have to have awareness because you can't change what you're not aware of. So, At the very least, becoming aware of what is it that you are mentally rehearsing every day.

[00:14:23] Here's what's so funny is like, you know, mental rehearsal's not gonna make you a perfect human being, right? But it's really meant to help you feel more secure, relaxed, calm, and help your physiology than support that state. Because when I got to the airport, there was this dude who was working there and, this is something I didn't rehearse, and now that I've had this experience, like I'm gonna add this interaction into my, future rehearsal. Right. He was very upset that I had TSA pre-check and my friend did not, but we wanted to go on the same line to the same screening person because of course the cats had to stay together. We had to stay together because, this was all one process and we needed to both be there to deal with the cats in the whole process of getting them screened. And he was already pre upset that people were not doing the line in the correct way and the way that he wanted them to.

[00:15:31] And so he wasn't really able to hear what I was trying to explain to him. But also I got my, like, New York City, uh, you know, oh, you're gonna come at me, I'm gonna come at you. So I was not calm. I mean, I was not crazy, but I was also not like, you know, Calm and relaxed like I'm talking now and open to deal with anything that comes my way.

[00:15:55] No, I was myself and, but I was able to have that experience, see what was happening, kind of try to pull myself back, see if I could, navigate as towards something that made sense. So I was trying to deescalate, but you know, at the end of the day, like also still human. So these mind-body practices are, are here to get us feeling more capable and also just to help us unlearn patterns. Like what is it that you're practicing and rehearsing and how often are you doing it and what is that doing to your fight, flight, freeze, fawn response. And how is that relating to how we are feeling in our bodies? One of the things that I love to do is get to the airport really early because, I totally relax when I get through security. I'm just like, okay, so now I can just be here knowing that whatever happens, I've gotten through this part, you know, and I get to my gate and I just feel so relaxed and that I don't care that I am there well before the plane is taking off, because what I want to avoid is, you know, anything having to do with running through an airport, waiting online and feeling super stressed out, you know, so those are things that I, I take actions to avoid.

[00:17:19] So, you know, we were there super early 'cause we knew we didn't necessarily have control over each part of this process. We wanted to be there early so that even if. You know, they couldn't find a room or they couldn't find people to go in the room with us, or if we had to wait, that all of that would be okay. That at no point were we feeling rushed. Those are actions that we took to create, to help us manage our state. But what you are doing in your mind, Also helps you manage your state. It's kind of a both, and.

[00:17:55] I love my friend and, and we were like, well, what part of this experience do you wanna keep? What part of it is useful? Okay. She was amazing at getting all of the pieces done that she had to get done, and knowing all the rules and, and doing all the research and planning it all out. And I was like, okay, that's amazing. And then when you have those pieces concluded can you let yourself not constantly be ruminating every day and worrying about it. Where can you find the ease in the process of being planned? There's no moral obligation to being relaxed, but it does feel better. And it helps your prefrontal cortex stay on and available, which helps you problem solve things that need problem solving in the moment. And also it helps your body. It helps your body be relaxed, and we digest food when we are relaxed. Like when we are tense and tight, our body is cutting off blood flow and it's shunting it to these other, to places where it needs to help manage your body budget. Which is a Lisa Feldman Barrett term.

[00:19:12] Our brain is the one deciding that, our brain is the one deciding where our resources go, and we now can take this knowledge and help our brain be better at putting resources where they need to go.

[00:19:30] So maybe that's focusing on sleep. Maybe that's focusing on practicing ease rather than practicing anxiety. And just like any other skill, when you practice something, you get better at it. One, having successfully gone through this experience of traveling with her cats and flying them, everything went smoothly and absolutely when we were done and got through the experience of going through security and everybody else was really nice and like there were times where they didn't understand why we were wearing gloves. And you can't wear the gloves 'cause you have to get your hands swabbed. So I. We figured it out. So one of us would like not wear gloves and the other one was like the support and wore gloves just in case we needed the intervention for the, the attack cat. And so we all figured it out actually, you know, which I kind of loved. It's like we problem solved all of this together. Most of the time when we're more able to calm, we can hear what people are trying to communicate. And that can be really helpful. Then we can be like, what is the problem here that we need to solve or resolve? And how can we do that in a way that honors everybody's needs? And so we were able to do that. And when we got through security, she was just like, I'm trying not to cry. And I was like, oh my God, please cry. Like what a relief This must feel like if this is what you spend all day long thinking about, of course you're gonna wanna cry because what a relief that feels like.

[00:21:15] And I see this with clients, I've helped clients like navigate other trips or navigate flying on an airplane, whether it's fear or fear of having any kind of body symptom. We work through and we create opportunities for mental rehearsal, but we also create, this, the, I don't know. How do I wanna say this? The unwinding of rumination, right? It really does sometimes feel like it has a spin. Are we winding it up? Can we imagine winding it down slowly, right? When we take something that feels very speedy and fast, even if we just hit the pause button and then imagine maybe it going at half speed.

[00:21:59] Our bodies are listening. Our bodies are always listening. That is literally their job. That's like why when you're driving on the road, you kind of like can tell if somebody's gonna cut out in front of you, even if you're like, not paying super close attention. Our bodies are paying attention. Our body, our embodied cognition, knows so much more of what is happening around us. And we don't want to be in hypervigilant mode all the time. We actually want to be in this kind of relaxed alert state. This trusting that our body knows what's happening around us and that we're able to take action when there's action that needs taking. Right. So if somebody's gonna zoom out in front of you, you know, maybe you slow down, maybe you honk your horn, there's a lot of different options, but there's so much more of you having this perception of you, your body and the world around you. We don't have to only create that from this tense, hyper fixated, intense rumination place because our body then learns that. It learns that, oh, this is how I get things done. So in some ways then we learn well, this is where I take action from. So this very, tense, hyper-focused, anxious, overwhelmed place is then what is, drives our action. Then it feels very weird to do something when we're not wound up.

[00:23:37] So it can be kind of destabilizing for our sense of self if we haven't yet practiced how to do things when we feel relaxed. And so that's a little bit of what my morning routine is about, which is like, okay, if I'm not like hurling myself out of bed, fueled by adrenaline and panic, how else do I get out of bed? My goal is to get out of bed. My goal is not to stay in bed. So it's like imagining just that lightest touch on the gas pedal and really just feeling how good it feels to come into the wakening of my body in the morning and feeding my mind with good thoughts and good feelings, feeding my body with good feelings and just enjoying the day.

[00:24:27] So if I want to enjoy my day, if by the end of my day I want to have enjoyed my day, I wanna start practicing enjoying my enjoy day from the very beginning. Then whatever comes into my day, whatever it is that I need to do with my day, it will be met by the me who has already practiced enjoying my day.

[00:24:49] And this is intentional work, and I love it because it's so worth doing because the quality of my life matters to me. And I remember learning meditation way back when and, and being like, oh my God, this is so cool. And we can have these kinds of experiences through meditation. But I used to get this kind of on off experience with meditation where I would have this experience on the cushion or in the Meditation space, but then it didn't filter necessarily, I didn't know how to filter it into the rest of my day. And then that made me feel like there were two parts of me that there was this part of me that was kind of failing at feeling good more of the time. And then the part of me that could find it, but it was only found while meditating and you know, I might be a little hyperbolic and exaggerating, but it definitely did feel a little bit like there was a, a gulf and there was no bridge.

[00:25:54] And maybe we get that from meditating over time, but this conceptualization of a very similar idea, takes me wherever I wanna go, and maybe is its own bridge. So this ability to have mental rehearsal feel the way that I wanna feel and practice that. And have that more often really does become more of my experience. And then if I do wanna sit and do a formal meditation practice, I can also do that.

[00:26:26] I just wanted to say, I ended up having some great conversations with my friend and her partner, and we were just talking about inviting ourselves to let go of things that we needed when we were young, like old habits and practices, ways of soothing ourselves or feeling pleasure, whether that was with food or other types of things. Now we have this awareness and we have this agency that we didn't have when we were a child. And so if we want to feel good and we kind of know that like, oh, this one thing is a sure bet, what if we practice what else might help us feel good? Right? Instead of just wearing the one groove deeper and deeper and deeper. 'cause maybe it comes with after effects and experiences that we're not enjoying. So where's the harm reduction version? You know, it's sometimes it is, as an adult learning, like actually I can have an experience of discomfort and I don't actually have to change it and that's just fine. Like, I will move through the discomfort and I'll teach myself that this discomfort is temporary. So there's one that kind of one limb of it, right? And then there's the evoking positive sensations or leaning into something that feels good using our, our senses, right?

[00:27:56] So we're just looking at like, how do we create more variety and maybe expand ourselves out of that narrow, fixed way of looking at things and lean into that curious, open, evocative, like not knowing space and really letting not knowing, be its own source of pleasure. Letting curiosity be its own source of pleasure and really learning to have our own back and teaching our brain and our body that we can actually do something more. And do something different.

[00:28:34] And then we bring in our conscious mind to maybe evaluate and be like, okay, what parts of that experience did I like? What parts didn't I like? Like what worked, what didn't work? What do I want more of? And how do I think I can have that? So I know I've talked about mental rehearsal before, but I think I was really able to see the rumination, and if you know the thought work model, with my clients that I use the model with, I put rumination as an action. 'cause rumination is really something you are doing, even if it's a unconscious or non-conscious habit. I like to think of it as something we're doing because then it gives us the power to practice not doing or doing something else. It can be really useful to do something different to break us out out of these habits. And rumination is definitely one of those, and I think really can change. And when that changes, I think people's lives dramatically change because underneath rumination, what there is is this real desire for safety and a real desire for self-trust and a real desire for comfort, ease, love, and We can practice feeling those ways without that habit of rumination, which keeps the nervous system and the brain in a little fear spiral.

[00:30:06] So I hope that this conversation is helpful for you. And when you're practicing worry, the answer is not to say, oh, don't worry about it. ' cause Oh my God, don't you hate it when somebody says don't worry about it. Uh, you're like, yeah, if I could not worry about it, I would not worry about it. So I would just say really notice what you're worrying about and where can you find the oh yeah, I've got this handled part to it.

[00:30:34] And then the other part, which is like, what then do you wanna practice? That's also the thing. You can't practice not worrying, you can't practice not. You have to practice something. So if we're gonna practice not worrying, really what you practice is a sense of ease or you practice the belief that whatever happens, I've got my own back, or all of it.

[00:31:00] Like you can create like a whole buffet of things that you wanna practice. And we also wanna look at the quality of the practice, right? We don't wanna be practicing with this high intensity fear mind, right? So in practicing ease, what we are doing is unwiring fear. What fires together, wires together, and then the opposite is true. And what un fires unwires, and that's called pruning. And we're just becoming more adept through this act of mental rehearsal and practicing more of what we want.

[00:31:38] So I just wanted to share that experience. 'cause it was a really beautiful and very clear, my heart just went out to my friend when she told me that that's what was happening in her mind. And I was like, oh my God, that sounds awful. And I think now having gone through this experience, I kind of invited her to be like, how can you get the same successful results but without all of that amped up hyperfocus? What if we just focused instead of hyperfocused? What would be different for you in your life if you just focused and then also felt ease and relaxation? I don't know, try that on for size. See how that feels. And if this is work that you want to do with a guide, a coach, a mentor, please hit me up for a free curiosity call, and I'm really happy to chat with you about how we work together. All right, take care. Bye.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Transcript:

[00:00:00] Welcome to move with Deb. I am Deb, your friendly neuroplastician, and this is a podcast that explores the relationship between the body and the mind. From a health at every size, judgment-free perspective, I teach you how developing a new internal conversation based on curiosity, self friendship, and simple neuroplasticity techniques can rewire your body mind out of pain and emotional overwhelm to help you build the rich full life that you want to live. Disclaimer, this is not a replacement for medical care.

[00:00:55] Hello and welcome to move with Deb, the podcast soon, or eventually being renamed as a Curiosity Cure. But I'm Deb, your mind body hypno coach, pain reprocessing, emotional processing, and general cheerleader cheering you on ,and helping you understand the connections between the mind and the body, neuroplasticity, bioplasticity, and all of the processes that help us feel more, better, more of the time. That is me.

[00:01:32] I am happy to be here and chat with you today. Today's conversation is about This idea that I have been working on, which is being your own beloved. I don't know if I like those words, but those were the words that just popped into my mind right now.

[00:01:53] I was at the pool the other day and I, one of the things that I enjoy about my community pool is that it is a Amazing resource for this incredible neighborhood and beyond. Anybody can go to it and there's so many families and there's so many, just like different people all gathered together having fun.

[00:02:17] This kind of controlled chaos. It's definitely not a place to go if I just wanted a quiet lap swim experience. And I've really worked on my own, kind of my own mind, body work, my own processing to be like, yes, and I can get my needs met going to this pool, even though it's a little loud, even though it's a little chaotic, even though there are no swim lanes.

[00:02:45] Even though, even though, even though I am choosing to be here. And all of my MINDBODY skills really come in handy when I'm in this space. And I really love being able to practice creating incredible experiences for myself inside of containers that I can't control everything. Because here's the paradox.

[00:03:06] In MINDBODY work, what we often discover is pain behaviors Are often born out of this desire to control because of course, of course we wanna control things that we are not liking. Of course, we want to change things or get away from things that we believe are triggers for our pain or discomfort or uncomfortable experiences.

[00:03:30] And what sometimes that leads to is this habituated practice of the first response is, I'm going to control. I'm gonna control the environment around me, so then I don't have the trigger, so then I don't experience the symptoms. One of the ways out of it is to create that locus of control within ourselves and intentionally put ourselves in situations in which there are things that are happening that we can't control.

[00:04:00] And usually it's really good to do this paired with a desire. So I really wanted to swim and there are not that many options for where I live currently to like go create that happening. But there happens to be this amazing pool right down the street from where I live that's open during the summer. And I was noticing I wasn't going because you know, I was like, oh, they don't have any lap swim times.

[00:04:30] They used to have lap swim times, right? So now I'm all like, they took something away from me or there's something that I expected and desired and needed and wanted to be there, and now it's not there, so now I can't go. Right. That's all an internal dialogue, so I don't know if any of that internal dialogue is familiar to you.

[00:04:51] But I kept noticing like that desire, wanting to be there, and I was like, well, what if I also really get to practice this incredible experience of taking exquisite care of myself, creating this version of meeting that desire within this container that I don't control everything in it is not going to be the perfect swimming experience.

[00:05:19] And I know that going in, but how can I make this swimming experience perfect for me? And that's really the beauty of this work because in the end result is I get to go swimming. And I also get to learn how to really have my own back inside of experiences where I am not in charge of everything.

[00:05:41] I am not in control of everything. And I also have to deal with other people who are having their own experiences and sometimes we are not matching up. So. I have been going to the pool and it's been lovely. And of course the first thing I noticed was my brain was catastrophizing all the ways it was going to be awful or difficult or a struggle or like not what I want.

[00:06:10] Then, and I got there and I like, you know, made sure I had my lock and I, you know, followed the rules and I showed up and I was like, I am showing up for me. No matter what happens. I am happy to be here. That was my like, First swim time where I was like, I am at least showing up for the me that wants to be here and wants to do this, and wants to try, even though I don't know how it's gonna go, and I don't know if my needs are going to be met.

[00:06:47] Now there are a few things I wanna say. I have been there before, so I had a memory of having been there, having successfully gone swimming, and so that kind of implicit knowledge I could rely on and that sometimes is very helpful. So I'm not going in completely blind, like I don't know anything. I knew a lot, so I was like, okay getting into that embodied sense of like, oh, I can really trust some things that I know about this situation. I. I also don't have a, specific access need. So like, I actually, this pool has a ramp and so, and I've been having some foot pain, so I also knew like, oh, I wasn't gonna have to like, climb in and out of a ladder. And some people's bodies that's accessible and some people's bodies, that's not accessible. So I knew that there was a ramp. A gentle sloping ramp that went into the pool. And I was like, I knew that. So I knew I would be able to get in and out of the pool. So those things are also important depending on who you are, what your body is like, what you feel capable of.

[00:07:57] Sometimes we're capable of things and we don't think we are. And so there's like a mismatch over there and there's some emotional intensity or content that can be worked with. And sometimes it's just like being willing to show up and see what happens, planning ahead for how you are going to take care of yourself.

[00:08:19] Maybe it's asking for help. Maybe it's bringing a friend. Maybe it's just psyching yourself up into like, Hey, you know what? Like even if this doesn't work, I'm gonna give myself a big hug and a pat on the back and, I'm really gonna be proud of myself that I tried. So, but for me, I knew these things about this pool and sometimes it is scouting something out ahead of time that can also be a part of a process, right?

[00:08:46] So sometimes it's not just like, rip the bandaid off, go see what happens. And like, If you're in a dissociated state, sometimes that's, that's like a part of this experience. So we wanna find ways for our nervous system to be gentle in a process where we can be a good ally with ourself. So I did a bunch of that kind of stuff beforehand. And I went to the pool and of course, as it often is, it wasn't as, crowded as I thought it was gonna be. It wasn't as hard to find space for just my body to move around in the way that I wanted it to be. Of course there are lots of diverse bodies in the pool wearing all kinds of bathing suits, so that is just really fun.

[00:09:39] I, you know, knew that intellectually, but it was fun, as I am in the pool as a person in a larger body, and I'm wearing my two piece bathing suit, I am also looking around at the diversity of bodies and noticing who's around me. I. Oh my God, they're having fun. Isn't that delightful? And really filling myself up with this feeling of belonging.

[00:10:08] I belong here. I. This is my pool and it is their pool. And it is our pool. So feeling connected to this larger community by sharing this space together and recognizing like I am able to, to hold the duality that there are some things that I might want and not get. And there's a lot of things that I'm getting, and I'm only getting this experience because I am here putting myself in the pool.

[00:10:46] I can't sit at home and read about going to pools. I can't just look up pools and think about going to a pool. If I want the experience of floating swimming, being immersed in water, I need to go actually do it. And for me, that final piece of action is sometimes, it's such a powerful, full acknowledgement of desire where I can meet my own desires.

[00:11:18] When I do it over and over again, I feel incredibly powerful because nobody else can go swim for me. I have to be the one to go, and I figured out a way that was gonna be amazing. And so while I was there, part of my mind body work is like, okay, I have this beautiful attention system. What is it that my eyeballs are seeing? What is it my senses are feeling? How can I use these experiences for my highest benefit?

[00:11:52] So I was looking around and I was watching all of these parents or caregivers with these little babies or small children and really watching this incredible care and delight and sweetness. And like the holding a baby, floating in the water and just the looks from the children to the adults and from the adults to the children. That quality on their faces of love, of caring. I, oh, I'm getting emotional of feeling held. And I just let that flow through me and I started imagining the experience of being held, and I just started noticing what the water felt like as it's holding me.

[00:12:51] And then I started to think about you. My listeners and about my clients and about myself, who is also my client, and I was thinking about the experience of being held, and I noticed that my brain wanted to go to the past and think about relationships that I'm no longer in. And I could tell that my, like rumination brain wanted to really pick up that thread and start its ruminating and thinking about the past and thinking about different relationships and breakups and endings.

[00:13:29] And I was like, okay, brain, I see you. And yes, all of that is true. Actually, what I want is to evoke and revivify that experience of being held, and then my brain wanted to launch into the future, thinking about will I ever be held again? Will I have these kinds of relationships? What will it be like when I do X, Y, and Z when I date, when I blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:14:00] Again, leaving the present moment and thinking about, and let's be real, when we're thinking about the future, are we just worrying or are we thinking about the future and being like, yeah, in the future, when I am held, it will feel like this. That wasn't really what I was thinking, so I'm gonna tell on myself, right?

[00:14:28] Noticing my brain wants to solve this problem of being held or not being held, and what does it mean about me and my desirability and oh my God. You know, all of a sudden I'm not even in the pool. Like I don't even have a body, like I'm not even present in my experience, this experience that I actually intentionally cultivated for my self.

[00:14:58] So I noticed that was happening and you know, I talk about noticing what is happening in our mind and body all the time. So I noticed that was happening and I took that as an invitation to come back to the present moment. And I said, what would it feel like if I were to invite just this open, spacious experience of being held right now in the pool?

[00:15:23] Just letting my imagination kind of run with it. And I knew I should have recorded this right after that experience because now I can't remember exactly what happened. But that is also the beauty because it's a, it's a liminal experience. It is not about the actual narrative story. It is about the feelings that are evoked when I went on a mind journey, when I went on an imagination journey.

[00:15:58] And maybe that's something we can do together right now, which is just wherever you are, as long as you're not driving or doing heavy machinery or you know, in a place where you can let your imagination wander, allow yourself to just relax and maybe your eyes are feeling heavy and they wanna close, or maybe they're staying open. There's no wrong way to do this, and just noticing your body feeling settled and placing your attention on your breath, and just inviting in a big breath and then exhaling twice as long. And then just imagining. Whatever it is for you, that feeling of being held. So for me, I was in the water and I had just looked at all of these babies being held i. By loving arms and loving eyes and smiling faces.

[00:16:59] And so I had that warm love feeling inside of me and I just emanated that feeling around me. And now I'm revivifying it, but it's different and it's just what it is now. So I'm imagining this love bubble kind of growing to hold me, hold my whole body as we're floating in this beautiful warm pool surrounded by loving people.

[00:17:28] And now this warm love bubble is just holding me. It's almost like this bubble is made of helium and I am just floating and bouncing and being held by this warm and loving container. And I can feel the coolness of the pool and the water around me, and every time I would float and feel that, and feel the kind of difference between the coolness of the water and the warmness of the air and the bubble, and just letting that penetrate my skin and my being.

[00:18:09] And I sometimes open my eyes and I would see the clouds. And if you're a long time listener of this podcast, you'll know that clouds are really, I consider clouds my friend. And so clouds are this kind of space where I get to go and be free and float and feel love. And so I am connecting in love with the clouds and feeling my heart, that love and that warmth really just penetrating my skin and flowing through my body. I. Just like my heart is pumping, warm life-giving blood, and moving oxygen around inside of me, just feeling, th flowing through inside of me, flowing from my heart all the way to the tiniest capillaries, and coming back in and being this cycle of love and feeling held both by the water, by my heart, by my intention of creating this held, loving experience for myself to rest in.

[00:19:30] I remember having kind of a wave of grief flowing through and just being like, yes, that's right. Sometimes we feel things and just inviting that me into this bubble to be held. Alongside of the me that was already being held, and now I'm imagining actually me embracing me inside this bubble me embracing the me who is feeling grief, that is feeling these tears rolling off my cheeks.

[00:20:03] And just letting it be okay to feel held while having an emotion. And just as I keep breathing and sensing into this space around me, feeling held, feeling loved, knowing that I am growing my capacity and my sense of strength in this experience. Growing the love, but also being the love, being the holder of love, being the transmitter of love, and being the receiver and all of this happening in my imagination as I am floating, in this water that I have created this experience for myself.

[00:20:55] And now of course you can create this as you're laying in bed in the morning. Sometimes it's really beautiful to start your day already feeling held. So maybe you can ask yourself, how would I like to feel at the end of the day? And then start your day just spending a little time evoking that feeling for yourself.

[00:21:20] And just feeling into it. What is it gonna feel like? What does it feel like now when I feel accomplished or grounded or connected in myself? You can just play and let your imagination go where it wants to go and help you connect with these feelings.

[00:21:44] That feeling of being held, I think is so powerful because in mind body work, we often talk about self-compassion and or maybe like self-compassion as a resting place. And we're also talking about invoking positive affect, right? Which is just a way of saying feeling good. And so we have a lot of narratives in this capitalist culture and in Christian theology, I believe, right?

[00:22:14] Of having to earn love, having to earn our place, having to earn God's favor and a lot of that gets transmuted into like, well, we're not allowed to feel certain things until we've done certain things. And I think that mythology creates some harm. And certainly there's value in doing in creating, but we shouldn't make ourselves have to earn love or just the things that we need. And I would love for the world to be organized in that way and at least here in this country, it is not necessarily currently, but we can start reclaiming some of that not needing to earn for ourselves. So right in the morning, we can start by really sensing into our incredible and immutable worth and value as a human being just for existing.

[00:23:14] How amazing would that be when you wake up and that's the reminder that you're giving yourself, not, I'm behind, I am late, I'm a fuck up. I can't tell you how many years I unknowingly, subconsciously reinforce this belief that I had already failed before the day even started. If I do one thing in my life unwinding that story and I, I actually, actually, now that I think about it, I think I have unwound that story.

[00:23:46] Like that doesn't happen anymore. And it, it's this thing where I have a podcast called The Despair of Disbelief. It's sometimes it's the, you know, we can understand something cognitively, but somatically, we're still in that old belief, and that can be an incredibly painful place to be because we're like, I understand it, I understand it.

[00:24:09] I have the insight and the knowledge in my mind, but the rest of me is not on board. The rest of me is not agreeing. Sometimes we wanna do what I call going to debate club and we wanna go duke it out. But really the answer is, I've said before to go to drama club, which is we want to go to the feeling, we want to match the feeling with the belief that we are trying to have.

[00:24:40] So if we believe, we deserve love and we have immutable worth and value as humans, as all people do just for existing. And we need to practice that feeling and we're going to, our body will be the one that is finishing that creative process and. This is I guess, a form of fake it till you make it, but like it's the neuroplasticity version of fake it till you make it.

[00:25:10] So we're not faking it, we're evoking it to believe it. We're practicing the smallest version of it. We don't know how it's gonna actually show up for ourselves six months from now, but if we practice a version of it now, and if we even unleash our beautiful imagination to just make it up and let it just be something creative.

[00:25:41] We get to just really feel, so you wake up in the morning and you're like, and then just take a moment and be like, oh no. Right now, this is the time where I'm practicing feeling held and loved and just be like, okay, yeah. What does that feel like today? I'm gonna lay in bed. I'm gonna imagine a bubble or a cloud or a big hand holding me, or I am myself and a baby, or you know, I don't know, some a Muppet or a character from a favorite movie or your own child, or, you know, right. This is where imagination is so helpful because it doesn't have to be real, as long as the feeling is real and then we just play and feel. And then it's like, okay, and we just practice it in the smallest moments, in the tiniest bits, in these moments where we're feeling triggered and we're like, ah, what do I do?

[00:26:50] And I'm like, okay. We go into this feeling just for a moment to meet ourselves where we are and evoke the feeling of how we want to be feeling. And that's, Neuroplasticity, that's Bioplasticity. We are attending and tuning our nervous system through the power of our imagination and evoking a different state, and it is powerful work and it is not hard.

[00:27:22] So that's my invitation to you to just start to practice. How can you do that? Are there things that are already existing in your life that really give you that good feeling? Okay where do you feel that good feeling? How can you spread it around? Where else would you like that good feeling to be? Can you imagine it as something that you apply to yourself? Maybe you're in a work meeting and you have some lotion and you're like putting the lotion on your hand, but really in the lotion, you've infused this like good, calm, confident feeling, and every time you put the lotion on, you're like, yeah.

[00:28:08] This feels really good, this confidence, this belief that yeah, I know what I'm doing, right? So there's so many different ways to play with it and honestly you can't get it wrong. So, and if that is something that you would love to do, With a guide, with a coach. Uh, some people love to like super d i y stuff on their own and I am here for it 'cause I am that person who did not like to go to the shoe store and have people pick out shoes for me and put them on my feet.

[00:28:41] I. I love to go like to the big box stores or pay less, which I think was the first one. And like, go find the shoe and put it on my own feet. And you know, maybe that's, some of that is a trauma response and maybe some of that is just like, I like to be in my own time, in my own space doing my own thing.

[00:29:01] But I will say we are meant to be connected. Our nervous systems are designed that way, so in whatever way, I wanna encourage you to, even in your imagination, reach out and connect with other people in whatever way feels safe for you right now. So if you are like, Hey, I might wanna do this with a coach. I might want to be held in a container where I can really feel free to explore and to evoke and to create this MINDBODY experience that I would rather be having over the one that I'm currently having, then I wanna encourage you to book a curiosity call with me and you just like pop on the link, make an appointment, and we have a conversation and see if working together is something that you think would feel good and help you. I would love to meet you.

[00:30:03] As you know, as I say, I can go on and on, so I'm getting to practice being succinct. Today's practice is about imagination and evoking pleasant sensory states. And I hope you have fun. If you do and you're like, this is so cool, lemme know. I would love to know how you are using this beautiful, beautiful brain of yours and all of your senses to help create an experience for yourself.

[00:30:34] I always love to hear about it. All right, take care.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

https://medium.com/systems-thinking-and-the-human-body-2-0/systems-thinking-as-a-diagnostic-tool-1ad7e7051b88

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/mind-body-connection-is-built-into-brain-study-suggests/

https://annals-general-psychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12991-023-00434-5

Click here if you'd like to get on a free curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Transcript: 
[00:00:00] Welcome to move with Deb. I am Deb, your friendly neuroplastic, and this is a podcast that explores the relationship between the body and the mind. From a health at every size, judgment-free perspective, I teach you how developing a new internal conversation based on curiosity, self friendship, and simple neuroplasticity techniques can rewire your body mind out of pain and emotional overwhelm to help you build the rich full life that you want to live. Disclaimer, this is not a replacement for medical care.

[00:00:55] Hello and welcome to Move with Deb soon to be renamed The Curiosity Cure with Deb. I am your host. I'm a MINDBODY pain recovery coach, and I am here to share with you some thoughts about the interplay between the mind, the body, the self, and how it relates to what we feel. So I today, you know, I'm supposed to be getting on a plane very early in the morning, tomorrow morning.

[00:01:30] And so of course my brain was like, you need to go record a podcast right now. 'cause that's the most important thing. Not packing, not washing my sheets so that they'll be clean when I come back. Not the entire long list of things that I have to do. It was like, no, you must get on and share this idea with people.

[00:01:54] And so here. It's come from a bunch of conversations with clients. In one conversation with a client today we were talking about how you support yourself when you don't feel well. She was having acute symptoms, not chronic symptoms, but we were talking about the way that our pain behaviors show up.

[00:02:14] Sometimes we get these beliefs like, oh, you know, I have to rest more, or I just need to rest. Or the way that you're managing the experience that you're having becomes this particular kind of thinking. These ways of thinking about pain or about symptoms are kind of socially constructed and socially supported. They're things that we hear other people say them, we say them, and they become so ubiquitous that we're almost not really even clear on what it is that we're saying, but we're saying something that sounds good. Like it satisfies the part of us that is confused and doesn't know how to feel better and we get ourselves in these cycles.

[00:03:03] One of the things that I was thinking about as I've been listening to. James Tripp, who's a hypnosis teacher and a thought leader in that universe, which is somewhat adjacent, but overlapping with pain recovery.

[00:03:17] At the heart of it, we're constructing and deconstructing language and psychophysiological experiences. We're exploring meaning we're exploring sense-making, we're exploring how we shift our physiological experience to go from one that we don't like to one that we like better. All the different ways that are not just taking a pill, having some kind of physical intervention, like how we use these other parts of our experience, especially our brain, to help us create a new experience of our reality. You've heard me talk about predictive brain coding and things like that, we're kind of blending neuroscience. What I really love is, because I'm not a neuroscientist, I am the coach that people work with. So in our work together, which actually a client that I just wrapped up with, she's like, "Working with you is magic."

[00:04:17] And I do not identify as a witch. I don't identify as my work being magical, but I believe there are experiences we have that feel magical, and to me that's like, out of the ordinary, rarefied, unique, special, um, otherworldly, right? And that is kind of what we're trying to create when we are doing mind body work is we're going along, we're having this experience, we're having this experience, we're having this experience.

[00:04:45] We want a different experience. And we're like, I feel really stuck in my current embodied experience, and I don't know how to get to this other place, it's almost like, if you were traveling and you're like, I'm over here and I wanna get over there, but you don't have a map and you don't know how to get there, and you don't know what the transportation options are, you know, you're annoyed that we still didn't get these transporters that we were promised because like, oh man, that would make it really easy. You would literally just be like, pop from one place to the other place that you wanna go.

[00:05:22] Well, we don't have those things, but we do in mind body work and hypnosis, we have these maps. One of the maps that James Tripp has talked about and a mental health educator who I think of as a mentor, Mark Freeman and his work shows up in my work, his work is really informed how I work with clients, they both talk about systems thinking. And I like to think of our mind-body connection as a systems thinking construct.

[00:05:55] The key concepts and systems thinking are, all systems are comprised of interconnected parts. The connections cause behavior of one part to affect another, and all parts are connected. That is a beautiful description of how the mind, the brain, and the body and sometimes, you know, body slash nervous system.

[00:06:20] I don't know, stick the nervous system in there. Is it the brain? Is it the body? It's both. But they're all interconnected. And so when we look at it through that lens, we can start to notice where we can affect change, but also where the problem lies. Of course, if we don't feel like we have a problem, then we have nothing that we wanna solve.

[00:06:45] So usually there's something that's happening that we don't like, that we don't want, that we want less of. And we set about in our individual and collective ways to create change. One is identifying what the problem is, and so one of the things that my client and I were talking about is, what if it's not about necessarily like rushing to feel better or being like, what did I do to not feel good, or what do I have to do to feel better?

[00:07:16] It's really about like slowing down, creating that connection and awareness. So really being able to witness and notice. So witness the process of when I have this sensation, these are the thoughts and feelings that are arising, or you know, it's this time of day and this experience is happening regularly.

[00:07:40] We were talking about the energy feeling slump that you get at like three, four o'clock. And I was like, well, maybe your body's just like, yeah, we're done thinking 'cause we're taking all of this energy and we're sticking it in our bellies so we can process our food. So of course there's going to be changes in our energy throughout the day. The brain is allocating resources to different places to manage our allostatic load. We have different needs at different times in the day. We are not robots. We're human. And so it becomes then about the story that you tell to yourself when you have that kind of inevitable energy slump in the middle of the day or the, the, towards the end of the day.

[00:08:31] And if you're like, oh my God, I still have like these hours left, and then your brain starts to be like, this is the worst and I hate this. And, and all of that is totally understandable. At the same time, it's like, ugh, we're making those two hours that are left almost longer and longer and longer and unbearable, and indeterminate and like, oh my God, because we do have the power with our mind and our perception of things to turn up the volume on discomfort or turn down the volume on discomfort. The time is still the same. So it was really fun to listen to my client already resourcing herself with thoughts about that time. She's like, well, this time's gonna go by, you know, it's gonna be two hours somewhere.

[00:09:21] And so it was really fun to listen to her kind of deescalate. Then we were talking about how do you then support yourself physiologically? Like we've got the kind of mindset support locked in, right? The thoughts about it, the awareness of the thoughts, how we can Interrupt, catastrophizing, right?

[00:09:41] So really becoming this beautiful witness of it without shame. 'cause like man, people at work complain about work that's just like part of work culture. One of the things we were talking about, okay, so bringing your body into this experience, what do you think your body needs in this moment? So we talked about shifting tasks, like having the more thinky tasks in the earlier part of the day, creating the freedom to have some kind of open, spacious mind, even changing eye cues. So looking off into the distance, which will relax your eye muscles, which will send a message to your nervous system that it can relax, that you're in this parasympathetic mode, into this rest and digest. So like having a cup of tea. Talked about feeling emboldened to not always look like you're doing busy work. Like what if people see you doing nothing. So we kind of process some of that fear or those emotions we thought about the worries of like what other people are gonna think. This mind body work is complex. It's really fun when we stop trying to be like, what's the right answer to shifting into this curiosity mindset, because then anything can be looked at and explored and then we come up with so many more interesting and also kind of subtle or simple solutions.

[00:11:12] The answer is not get a new job, or the answer isn't stop working at four o'clock. I mean, it's maybe, but that's not always possible. And so we're like, yeah, what if you just like, knew by that time, like your big thinky tasks were done. And then this is a different kind of mindset time, maybe a more dreamy time, and then looking at the activities that she was doing, and also feeling relaxed and empowered to just be in her own process. And so much of that is this like subtle, pulling away of all of this socialized pressure of perfectionism, of striving, of needing people's approval, when we started thinking how can I continue to support myself even more and what are the systems that I am engaging with? One of the things that we were thinking about is the approach to problem solving.

[00:12:13] We were talking about a future event, spending time with family, and I was like, one of the things that's really fun in mind-body work is what is called positive affect induction. That's a formal part of pain reprocessing therapy, and mad respect to researchers or to therapists or to all these people, but I'm also just like, Positive affect induction. It's just called feeling good, finding good feelings, and it is definitely the thing that we often hide under the blanket of bad feelings.

[00:12:52] We're like we can't possibly feel good unless we resolve this feeling bad, but that is not true. It's just that we have trained our brain to be like, put the problem state, put the problem, in front and then the kind of good stuff that we want, we're we're telling ourself in this kind of system organization that we can only have it, experience it and enjoy it after we've fixed this problem. And I was like, oh, that puts so much pressure on ourselves and we're also making it be the very long way around.

[00:13:30] One of the things that my client and I, that I left her with was, when you're at this event, just ask your brain to find all the different ways that you're having a good time, that you're enjoying yourself. Just ask it gently to find you lots of evidence. We don't have to know what it is beforehand 'cause like maybe it's stuff that only is gonna happen in the moment, like maybe somebody's gonna sit on a plate of beans or like maybe grandma's gonna play a kazoo. Like we won't know ahead of time.

[00:14:01] Like we know some things, but we won't know what is gonna happen in the moment until it happens. And if, we're present to it and asking our brain in this beautiful attention system of ours to notice things on purpose and kind of come back and report. Right, so we can feel it in our bodies, it will literally do that.

[00:14:23] It's a neat trick. I really suggest you try it, especially if you're going into something already pre-planning, like all the ways that you're gonna take care of yourself when like things go wrong. And I'm not saying that that's the wrong thing to do, but when you, when you look at that through a systems lens, what you're doing is allocating a lot of resources to managing problems. And you're taking all of your attention, your energy, your mind, your body, your emotions, and you're warding off all these potential problems and there is no resources left to experience what there is to be delighted by in the moment.

[00:15:07] This positive affect induction is this experience that when I work with my clients, I do spend, I don't wanna say it's toxic positivity, 'cause all feelings are welcome, but what I notice is my clients get faster, better results when we start to work with the brains system and start to train it to look for things that are working, look for things that feel good, experience things, allowing pleasure, creating it on purpose, finding the smallest pieces of joy within a larger system. And because we are human. And we are not robots. Nothing is going to only feel good all of the time, but it's the story that we tell ourselves about the things that feel good and the stories that we tell ourselves about the things that feel less good.

[00:16:03] It's can be really fun when we kind of flip all of these systems upside down and inside out so that they can be building the system that supports you, supports this idea of change and supports this idea of mind body healing. And so we're changing our relationship to the emotions, sensations and experiences that we're having and we are working on creating more and more and more trust and safety.

[00:16:40] I think that's maybe all I wanna say. I just was like, okay, so now I'm noticing my brain just like, yeah, and it's time to take the laundry out of the dryer and fold it and maybe pack a suitcase. So I'm gonna listen to my system that feels really satisfied and happy to have gotten on here and kind of shared with you, a deep part of my process and as I have been coaching and working with people, I notice that change lives inside of this type of systems reorganization. It was a fun piece to notice that these things come together. The research from pain reprocessing therapy, listening to James Tripp, talking about systems theory, remembering Mark's systems theory and the conversations and the the wins that my clients are having, the way that their pain is changing and the way that their relationship with things like work, relationships in their life, stressors and things like that. Those things are shifting and changing and I just don't wanna be like, I don't know why. It must be a fluke. I do know why. This kind of systems process and thinking, helps us think about the circumstance, out of the trigger. Right. We're not necessarily just talking about a trigger, whether that's a person, an event, a physical sensation. We are not just talking about our thoughts and our feelings about it. We are sitting and observing ourself as a system. What is my mind doing? What is my body doing? What is self doing? The part that's on the inside doing, what is my brain doing?

[00:18:28] So I wanna invite you to start to think about your mind, your body, your brain, your nervous system as a system. And if it could communicate to you, like if you could observe it, what are you noticing about it? And then if we are going to try to get more of what we want to be experiencing, how do we ask this system to have that, to create that, to even just observe it.

[00:19:00] That's what I got for you today. If the way I talk about mindbody healing, the way I talk about pain reprocessing, it sounds interesting to you, I would love to talk to you and please hop on a curiosity call and let's chat. Thanks.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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If you would like to chat with me - here's a link to book a free Curiosity Call -
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RESOURCES

What different people across the mindbody medicine field are discovering are the similarities between Covid symptoms and other long term chronic pain/illness symptoms and how the pain-fear-pain cycle plays into the perpetuation of symptoms after the body has recovered. So using this same approach they're seeing good responses.

Here's some resources that I've both listened to or read directly or have been told about through my colleagues.
https://www.positivelycovid.org/
https://www.longcovidcured.com/ - this has some great recovery stories - including Paul Garner, infectious disease Dr.
https://www.longcovidcured.com/about - this is a lovely list of various resources. I can offer people 6 weeks free of the Curable app if anyone wants to try that.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/long-covid-hope-recovery-symptoms - Dr. Garner's story of recovery
https://www.recoverynorway.org/2023/01/23/long-covid-recovery-gary/ - I like how Gary describes his understanding of the mindbody recovery process.
https://www.thismighthurtfilm.com/long-covid - Neuroplastic pain recovery resources from the team at This Might Hurt documentary
https://youtu.be/4vF0XNBTv9A - Interview with Dr. Schubiner, explaining the mindbody process to address Long Covid

This is probably MORE than enough.

It's all pretty much the same content (how to change the body experience, through retraining the brain) just through different lenses.

Happy to share more. I think just learning that recovery is possible even begins the change due to predictive processing.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Here's some links to articles about her approach to anxiety - https://www.anxietycoach.com/claire-weekes.html

https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Overcome_Anxiety_with_Dr._Claire_Weekes

As you listen, remember it's not about knowing this stuff intellectually but being willing to play and practice these experiences in your body. Just like reading about weight lifting isn't the same as visualizing yourself lifting or actual weight lifting.

If you are feeling stuck on your journey to feeling better and would like a kind, curious and skilled guide, let's chat! https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Proceeding into our today and tomorrow self benefits from wearing gentle goggles when we look in the rear view mirror.

I discuss some client stories and explore my own around moving and how I navigate efforting, physical pain and unlearning old conditioned responses.

How we pay attention and build belief in change, is a foundation of neuro + bio plasticity.

We illuminate, learn and practice with intention and exquisite self care in my coaching container.

If you don't know how to do that, I promise to teach you.

Learn how to stop shitting on past you in service of future you.

You can book a curiosity call with me at - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

I look forward to connecting with you and chatitng about what working together could be like.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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I'm calling this a practice of Catch + Release Shame. Learning how to lean into what we usually avoid is the beginning of changing everything.

When I asked my client for permission to share some of our conversation on the podcast, this was her response:

"Specifically, if you'd like more client perspective when you share: "your client" found that there was hidden shame, like in the "little" things they would not have guessed would have shame around them. This is because they consider themselves very open and shame-free when it comes to the things that society is so often shaming people for (gender, body size/hair, kinks, etc.) so they assumed there was no shame. Nope. They were blind to the little shames and grateful you pointed them out so they could explore the why's and work to release them, thus allowing enjoyment to fill that space, instead. I hope our "discoveries" help others 💓"

You can book a curiosity call with me at - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb
I look forward to connecting with you and chatitng about what working together could be like.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb- click here to book a curiosity call with me!
https://www.instagram.com/movewithdeb/ - are you following me? I like to share tidbits about my personal mindbody process as well as other stuff!

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Melissa Tiers - https://www.melissatiers.com/

A Conversation with Dr. Ashar about the science of primary pain that I co-hosted at Lin Health - https://youtu.be/wotWuvrJW3I

Dr. Ashar's twitter - https://twitter.com/YoniAshar

If you are interested in working with me, I currently offer 12 weeks of mindbody/life coaching or if you want a quick shot of hypnosis, we can do that as well. https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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The abstract from a chapter on Pain Behaviors with citations.
https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-3-540-29805-2_302

https://www.instituteforchronicpain.org/blog/item/210-reducing-pain-behaviors-coping-with-pain-series - this one doesn't address how to update the brain's prediction of pain but it doesn't address how to explore pain behaviors.

The link to my "I Notice" practice - https://www.movewithdeb.com/podcasts/move-with-deb-the-podcast/episodes/2147657304

Website - www.movewithdeb.com
Instagram - www.instagram.com/movewithdeb

If you are curious and want to know more about how to work with me please book a free consult - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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And that embodied change was created through the mindbody practices I have been using and teaching, especially my hybrid hypnocoaching work. My old habituated responses got unwired enough so that they couldn't get picked up and associated into in the ways they had previously and that's just so fascinating and amazing to experience.

Change is possible. I want you to have more of what you want to be experiencing in life. Please listen and see how this might relate to you and your current mindbody experience. If you are curious and want to know more about how to work with me please book a free consult - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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You can find more information about this from the book Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle, coauthors (and twin sisters) Emily and Amelia Nagoski.

I'm also currently studying with Dr. Amy Apigian in her 21 Day Journey to Calm Aliveness in which she shares Somatic Experiencing exercises.

This episode is about how to use this reframe as a way to shift out of shame into curiosity. I share some of my hiking experiences in Iceland, especially when I was walking on a Glacier! Can you get into that curiosity approach?

If you want to know more about mindbody approaches to decreasing symptoms associated with stress illnesses, TMS or neuroplastic pain, please book a curiosity call with me! https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201705/vagus-nerve-survival-guide-combat-fight-or-flight-urges

https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/barbrastreisand/beforetheparadepassesby.html

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/

https://www.additudemag.com/pathological-demand-avoidance-autism-adhd/

Enjoy and don't forget to follow me at - https://www.instagram.com/movewithdeb/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Hello! I'm sharing some thoughts about not only my favorite concept but one that has been THE most powerful tools in the mindbody arsenal for healing. CURIOSITY!

It's not as sexy as a fancy treatment with a lot of sibyls, but it's effective!
And you can start today. No prescription needed.

Here's the links I mentioned in the podcast.
https://youtu.be/kSZKIupBUuc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allostasis
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/13/opinion/culture/pandemic-languishing-behavioral-activation.html?

I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.
Please follow me on instagram @movewithdeb

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There's no wrong way to do this. There's no wrong answer. Are you willing to try? Can you become curious? What does approaching an activity with curiosity feel like? What if this is fun? What might that experience feel like?

This is a lovely to accompany this work. While I would write some words differently, in general I feel really aligned with his words and felt uplifted by them, so in that spirit I share them with you.
https://www.omaritani.com/blog/how-to-process-difficult-emotions

I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.
Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb

My 1:1 pain recovery coaching program will be reopening this Spring. More news to come.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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I am looking forward to continuing to connect, share and grow with you in the coming year.

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb

My program will be reopening in the Spring of 2022. Looking forward to connecting with you then!

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Central Sensitization Syndrome
https://www.physio-pedia.com/Central_Sensitisation

https://www.lin.health/insights/what-is-central-sensitization-syndrome

Pain is a normal feature of human life -
https://www.lifehack.org/625387/a-painless-life-may-sound-enticing-but-its-the-guarantee-to-true-suffering

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Article on Dorsal Freeze -
https://reichandlowentherapy.org/Content/Vegetative/dorsal_shift.html

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My website is www.debmalkin.com

The Anxiety MD instagram - https://www.instagram.com/theanxietymd/

Dr. Huberman's lecture on Learning - (it's long but I loved it) https://youtu.be/Oo7hQapFe3M

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My website is www.debmalkin.com
Kai Cheng Thom - https://kaichengthom.com/

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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My website is www.debmalkin.com

Dr. Huberman's dopamine lecture - https://hubermanlab.com/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-and-satisfaction/

Article on labeling emotions -
https://www.psypost.org/2021/09/adolescents-who-are-better-at-identifying-their-feelings-are-less-likely-to-experience-anxiety-and-depression-in-response-to-stress-61907

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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https://ideas.ted.com/peoples-words-and-actions-can-actually-shape-your-brain-a-neuroscientist-explains-how/

https://how-emotions-are-made.com/notes/Glossary

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/interoception-how-we-understand-our-bodys-inner-sensations

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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So this episode I talk about my getting a rule out for throat cancer, because I've been dealing with this annoying, scary neck pain for over a year. It comes and goes. It's definitely linked to stress. And there was always a fear in the back of my mind that it was something more. Because I had gotten rid of all my other mindbody pain through these techniques but this one has hung around.

So I talk about the importance of a "rule out". And also I share an article about the power of perception - https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/eight_reasons_to_distrust_your_own_perceptions

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

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Now with Trauma informed care and Polyvagal Theory the conversation has shifted to safety and fear.

Underlying it all is this concept of Emotional Awareness.
And more important (in my opinion) creating safety with Emotional Experiencing.

There's research that shows, the more granular one is in being able to describe their emotions, the better sense of well-being one has.

In this episode I discuss the reasons why we want to do this practice and the simple skill of the cognitive-somatic tool I call "I Notice."

Here's the link to the emotion wheel article I mention. https://flowingdata.com/2020/03/20/wheel-of-emotional-words/

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Verywell Mind breathing exercises -Ihttps://www.verywellmind.com/abdominal-breathing-2584115

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I used to think I needed to do everything perfectly. I was raised by a perfectionist, who not so fun for me really did excel at so many things. Me, much less so. But I absorbed so many of those messages. My all or nothing brain is slowly and deliberately rebuilding my faith, love and compassion for my completely perfectly imperfect self and finding lots of healing along the way.

All you A students in pain, this is for you <3

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com
Here's a link to the instagram of my somatic singing. - https://www.instagram.com/p/CRQEvW1gMlW/?

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

I hope that this helps. Please feel free to reach out to me via instagram @movewithdeb or book a curiosity call at https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

My website is www.debmalkin.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

That's my confession. It's my hard sell. I think that it's the key to unlocking our conditioned survival responses of pain, emotional overwhelm, trauma nervous system reactivity and help you create a nervous system friendly life that will allow you to move away from avoidance and towards the life you want to live.

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

You're even invited to a Being Human Party, along with all our feelings and see what happens when we try to keep Fear out.

Enjoy!

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com

Book a free half hour curiosity call with me - https://calendly.com/paincoachdeb

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pain.coach.deb/

Website - https://www.thecuriositycure.com