When they arrived, they met a toddler, Rahima Banu.

She did have smallpox, and five years later, in 1980, when the World Health Organization declared smallpox eradicated, Banu became a symbol of one of the greatest accomplishments in public health.

That’s the lasting public legacy of Rahima Banu, the girl.

Episode 8, the series finale of “Eradicating Smallpox,” is the story of Rahima Banu, the woman — and her life after smallpox.

To meet with her, podcast host Céline Gounder traveled to Digholdi, Bangladesh, where Banu, her husband, their three daughters, and a son share a one-room bamboo-and-corrugated-metal home with a mud floor. Their finances are precarious. The family cannot afford good health care or to send their daughter to college.

The public has largely forgotten Banu, while in her personal life, she faced prejudice from the local community because she had smallpox. Those negative attitudes followed her for decades after the virus was eradicated. 

“I feel ashamed of my scars. People also felt disgusted,” Banu said, crying as she spoke through an interpreter. 

Despite the hardship she’s faced, she is proud of her role in history, and that her children never had to live with the virus. 
“It did not happen to anyone, and it will not happen,” she said.

Voices From the Episode:

• Rahima Banu
  The last person in the world to have a naturally occurring case of the deadliest strain of smallpox
• Nazma Begum
  Rahima Banu’s daughter
• Rafiqul Islam
  Rahima Banu’s husband
• Alan Schnur
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program worker in Bangladesh

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to "Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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In Episode 7 of “Eradicating Smallpox,” Shohrab, a man who was displaced by the 1970 Bhola cyclone, shares his story. After fleeing the storm, he and his family settled in a makeshift community in Dhaka known as the Bhola basti. Smallpox was circulating there, but the deadly virus was not top of mind for Shohrab. “I wasn’t thinking about that. I was more focused on issues like where would I work, what would I eat,” he said in Bengali.

When people’s basic needs — like food and housing — aren’t met, it’s harder to reach public health goals, said Bangladeshi smallpox eradication worker Shahidul Haq Khan.

He encountered that obstacle frequently as he traveled from community to community in southern Bangladesh.

He said people asked him: “There's no rice in people's stomachs, so what is a vaccine going to do?”

To conclude this episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with Sam Tsemberis, president and CEO of Pathways Housing First Institute.

He said when public health meets people’s basic needs first, it gives them the best shot at health.

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Sam Tsemberis
  Founder, president, and CEO of Pathways Housing First Institute
  @SamTsemberis

Voices From the Episode:

• Shohrab
  Resident of the Bhola basti in Dhaka
• Iftekhar Iqbal
  Associate professor of history at the Universiti Brunei Darussalam
• Shahidul Haq Khan
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program worker in Bangladesh

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to "Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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This violent and coercive campaign — and the distrust it created — was a backdrop for the smallpox eradication campaign happening simultaneously in India. When smallpox eradication worker Chandrakant Pandav entered a community hoping to persuade people to accept the smallpox vaccine, he said he was often met with hesitancy and resistance.

“People's bodies still remember what was done to them,” said medical historian Sanjoy Bhattacharya.

Episode 6 of “Eradicating Smallpox” shares Pandav’s approach to mending damaged relationships.

To gain informed consent, he sat with people, sang folk songs, and patiently answered questions, working both to rebuild broken trust and slow the spread of smallpox. 

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with the director of the global health program at the Council on Foreign Relations, Thomas Bollyky. He said public health resources might be better spent looking for ways to encourage cooperation in low-trust communities, rather than investing to rebuild trust. 

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Thomas Bollyky
  Director of the global health program at the Council on Foreign Relations
  @TomBollyky

Voices From the Episode:

• Chandrakant Pandav
  Community medicine physician and former World Health Organization smallpox eradication worker in India
  @pandavcs1
• Gyan Prakash
  Professor of history at Princeton University, specializing in the history of modern India
  @prakashzone
• Sanjoy Bhattacharya
  Medical historian and professor of medical and global health histories at the University of Leeds
  @joyagnost
   

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.  

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,  Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
 

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The answer: Each outbreak could be traced back to Tatanagar, a city run by one of India’s largest corporations, the Tata Group.

When Brilliant arrived at the Tatanagar Railway Station, he was horrified by what he saw: people with active cases of smallpox purchasing train tickets. The virus was spreading out of control.

Brilliant knew that to stop the outbreak at its source, he would need the support of the company that ran the city. But he wasn’t optimistic the Tata Group would help.

Still, he had to try. So, Brilliant tracked down a Tata executive and knocked on his door in the middle of the night.

Brilliant’s message: “Your company is sending death all over the world. You're the greatest exporter of smallpox in history.”

Much to his surprise, the leaders of Tata listened.

Episode 5 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores the unique partnership between the Tata Group and the campaign to end the virus. This collaboration between the private and public sector, domestic and international, proved vital in the fight to eliminate smallpox.

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with NBA commissioner Adam Silver and virologist David Ho about the basketball league’s unique response to covid-19 — “the bubble” — and the essential role businesses can play in public health. “We need everyone involved,” Ho said, “from government, to academia, to the private sector.”

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Adam Silver
  Commissioner of the NBA
• David Ho
  Director and CEO of the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center

Voices From the Episode:

• Larry Brilliant
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication worker in India
  @larrybrilliant

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

Helene D. Gayle, a physician and an epidemiologist, is president of Spelman College. She is a board member of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and past director of the foundation’s program on HIV, tuberculosis, and reproductive health. She spent two decades with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention focusing primarily on HIV/AIDS prevention and global health.

William H. “Bill” Foege is an epidemiologist and a physician, and was a leader in the campaign to end smallpox during the 1970s. Foege is featured in Episode 2 of the “Eradicating Smallpox” docuseries.

Submit your questions for the panel here.

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The duo leaned on each other, sometimes literally, as they traversed the country’s rugged and watery geography. Khan, whom Miner sometimes referred to as “little brother,” used his local knowledge to help the team navigate both the cultural and physical landscape. When crossing rickety bamboo bridges, he would hold Miner’s hand and help him across. “We didn’t let him fall,” chuckled Khan.

Episode 4 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores what it took to bring care directly to people where they were.

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with public health advocate Joe Osmundson about his work to help coordinate a culturally appropriate response to mpox in New York City during the summer of 2022. “The model that we're trying to build is a mobile unit that delivers all sorts of sexual and primary healthcare opportunities. They're opportunities!” exclaimed Osmundson.

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Joe Osmundson
  Public health advocate and clinical assistant professor of biology at New York University
  @reluctantlyjoe

Voices From the episode:

• Tim Miner
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program 
  worker in Bangladesh
• Shahidul Haq Khan
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program 
  worker in Bangladesh

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Episode 3 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores what happened when public health workers — driven by the motto “zero pox!” — encountered hesitation. These anti-smallpox warriors wanted to achieve 100% vaccination, and they wanted to get there fast. Fueled by that urgency, their tactics were sometimes aggressive — and sometimes, crossed the line.

“I learned about being overzealous and not treating people with respect,” said Steve Jones, another eradication worker based in Bihar in the early ’70s.

To close out the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with NAACP health researcher Sandhya Kajeepeta about the reverberations of using coercion to achieve public health goals. Kajeepeta’s work documents inequities in the enforcement of covid-19 mandates in New York City.

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Sandhya Kajeepeta - Epidemiologist and senior researcher with the NAACP’s Thurgood Marshall Institute.  
  @SandhyaKaj

Voices From the Episode:

• Bhakti Dastane  
  Gynecologist and former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program worker in Bihar, India.
• Steve Jones  
  Physician-epidemiologist and former smallpox eradication campaign worker in India, Bangladesh, and Somalia. 
  @SteveJones322
• Sanjoy Bhattacharya 
  Medical historian and professor of medical and global health histories at the University of Leeds. 
  @JoyAgnost

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.  

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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This strategy was called “search and containment.” Teams of eradication workers visited communities across India to track down active cases of smallpox. Whenever they found a case, health workers would isolate the infected person, then vaccinate anyone that individual might have come in contact with.

Search and containment looked great on paper. Implementing it on the ground took the leadership of someone who knew the ins and outs of public health in India.

Episode 2 of “Eradicating Smallpox” tells the story of Mahendra Dutta, an Indian physician and public health worker who used his political savvy and local knowledge to pave the way to eradication. Dutta’s contributions were vital to the eradication campaign, but his story has rarely been told outside India. 

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder and epidemiologist Madhukar Pai discuss “decolonizing public health,” a movement to put leaders from the most affected communities in the driver’s seat to make decisions about global health.

In conversation with host Céline Gounder:

• Madhukar Pai
  Community medicine physician, professor of epidemiology and global health at McGill University in Montreal
  Twitter - https://twitter.com/paimadhu

Voices from the episode:

• Bill Foege
  Smallpox eradication worker, former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
• Yogesh Parashar
  Pediatrician living in Delhi
• Mahendra Dutta 
  Smallpox eradication worker, former health commissioner of New Delhi, India

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.  

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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But when Bhadani was 10 years old, he saw the body of a school friend who had died of smallpox. The body was covered in blistering pustules, the skin not visible at all.

Soon after, when eradication workers came to town, young Bhadani remembered his friend, gritted his teeth, and agreed to get the painful vaccine. 

Variola major smallpox was deadly and highly contagious. Infected people often died within two weeks – many of them young children. Those who survived could be left severely scarred, infertile, or blind.

Episode 1 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores the layered cultural landscape that eradication workers navigated as they worked to eliminate the virus. Success required technological innovations, cultural awareness, and a shared dream that a huge public health triumph was possible. 

To close the episode, Céline Gounder wonders how the U.S. might tap into similar “moral imagination” to prepare for the next public health crisis. 

Find a transcript of this episode here.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to Epidemic on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

In Conversation with Céline Gounder:

adrienne maree brown
Social justice organizer and science fiction author

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adriennemareebrown/
• Twitter: https://twitter.com/adriennemaree
• Website: https://adriennemareebrown.net/

Voices from the Episode:

• Rajendra Prasad Dhyani, temple priest at the Shitala Mata Temple in New Delhi
• Dinesh Bhadani, retired Indian Railways station manager living in New Delhi
• Priyanka Bhadani, journalist living in Delhi

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“Eradicating Smallpox” is an eight-episode, limited series amplifying their voices.

Host Céline Gounder, a physician and epidemiologist, traveled to India and Bangladesh, and her field recordings anchor the season. Each episode mines the smallpox-eradication history for lessons relevant to the next public-health emergency. 

New episodes coming this summer. 

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In this latest season of American Diagnosis, we’re going to share stories of Indigenous people who are taking action to protect the health and wellbeing of their communities in the face of incredible odds and we’ll ask hard questions about why they are confronting so many challenges to their health.

Listen to new episodes of American Diagnosis Season 4: Rezilience starting Jan. 18, 2022. Subscribe to American Diagnosis wherever you get your podcasts. 

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In this final episode of season 1 of EPIDEMIC, we look back on the coronavirus pandemic and how we can move forward with one of our first guests, Andy Slavitt, who was President Biden’s Senior Advisor on COVID-19. Then we hear from you, our listeners, about how the vaccine has changed your life for the better. Finally, Celine gives her personal reflections on the pandemic and shares her upcoming podcast projects.

Andy’s book, Preventable: The Inside Story of How Leadership Failures, Politics, and Selfishness Doomed the U.S. Coronavirus Response, is out now. And check out Andy Slavitt's podcast, In the Bubble.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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Some of the most persistent myths about coronavirus and the vaccines developed to fight it have to do with women's health. In this episode, we'll hear about the latest science when it comes to topics like COVID and a woman's fertility, breastfeeding, and how vaccines can help a pregnant woman protect her child in the womb. We'll also address the legacy of excluding pregnant women from clinical trials and how that history complicated caring for pregnant and lactating women during the pandemic.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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The pandemic has upended caregiving and what it means to be a working mom. More than 2 million women have left the workforce because of the cost and effort of caring for children and older family members during the pandemic. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we’ll hear why the United States is the only wealthy nation not to offer comprehensive support to parents, why caregiving is a critical part of American infrastructure,  and what’s at stake if parents and caregivers are forgotten.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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How do you let people who are fully vaccinated get back to normal life without creating super-spreader events for those who haven’t yet been vaccinated? Some are calling for vaccine certification programs that could hopefully re-open large parts of the economy safely while we still work on getting the vast majority vaccinated. In this episode, we’re going to hear about the ethics and logistics of vaccine certificates in the United States and around the world. We'll hear the arguments for and against them, and how the burden of these programs falls unevenly around the world.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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India is the world's largest supplier of vaccines but the government there suspended the export of all COVID-19 vaccines after a devastating outbreak this spring. This is just the latest reason why global health leaders are calling for a new, decentralized approach to vaccine manufacturing around the world. In this week’s episode we’ll look at the challenge facing developing nations when it comes to vaccines; how life-saving technology like mRNA vaccines could be rolled out around the world; and why it’ll take a generational investment to make sure the developing world is prepared for the next pandemic.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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President Joe Biden said the United States would be the world's "arsenal of vaccines" but critics say current plans to donate 80 million doses around the world are not enough. Instead, countries like India and South Africa are calling for a waiver on vaccine patents so they can make their own. In this episode we’re going to look at the controversy around patent protections for vaccines during the pandemic and what the U.S. government could do to improve access to vaccines around the world. We'll hear what tools the U.S. government has to pressure companies to share their vaccine tech and learn about some ideas on how the patent system could be re-imagined to ensure life-saving technology is more equitably distributed.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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During the pandemic, disinformation campaigns have been targeting people of color with lies like African Americans can't get COVID or denying the pandemic is even real. In this episode, we’re going to hear more about how these disinformation networks are gaming social media algorithms. We'll hear how the United States has become a hub for disinformation exported around the world, and what legislators need to do to tackle bad actors.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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Conservatives have emerged as the group least likely to say they’ll get vaccinated. Getting more conservative Americans comfortable with the vaccines will be needed to control the pandemic as national vaccination rates have started to slow and new variants spread across the United States. In this episode we’ll look at the results of a focus group attended by Governor Christie and other GOP leaders to listen to these voters’ concerns and see if they could be convinced to get vaccinated.

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In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we’re going to look at disinformation during the pandemic. Specifically, we’re going to look at how the Russian government and far-right militias are using vaccine disinformation to push their agendas. We’ll look at the motivations behind disinformation campaigns, why they can be so convincing, and what can be done about them. 

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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The end of the pandemic might not mean the end of SARS-CoV-2. In fact, many scientists think COVID is here to stay, even with vaccines.  In this episode we'll hear why we may never reach herd immunity, how the coronavirus could change over time, and why kids are the key to reducing the severity of the disease.

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Rural America's vaccine rollout has bucked expectations. A recent survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation found that four in 10 rural Americans reported getting at least their first dose of vaccine. That’s compared to three in 10 in urban and suburban areas. In this episode, we’re going to hear how healthcare workers are getting the word out about vaccination in three different rural communities. We’ll hear about the challenges to convincing people to get the vaccine, what’s working, and what it’s like to volunteer in a rural vaccination clinic.

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Reports show that Black Americans are less likely to get vaccinated than the general population but Black healthcare workers are taking on the mission to inform and  hopefully convince more people of color to get vaccinated. We’ll hear where this outreach has fallen flat in the past and how Black healthcare workers are finding new ways to change hearts and minds about the vaccine. 

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Black Americans are  twice as likely to die from COVID as white Americans. Despite this, polls show that African-Americans are less interested in receiving the vaccine than other groups. But for people of color who do want the vaccine, inequities in U.S. healthcare are making access to vaccines more difficult. To get a fuller picture of the African American experience with vaccines and public health, we’re going to look at the history of medical experimentation on Black people. We'll hear why African American doubts about vaccines go beyond the infamous syphilis experiment at Tuskegee, how this legacy lives on today, and  what lessons we can learn from these mistakes to help get more people vaccinated. 

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On March 16, a gunman in Atlanta killed eight people. Six of them were women of Asian descent. During the last 12 months, anti-Asian hate crimes were up 150% in the United States but the coronavirus pandemic is not the first time people of Asian descent have been stigmatized because of a disease. In this episode, we’ll look back at what happened in San Francisco during the California Gold Rush when an outbreak of the plague was blamed on Chinese immigrants. We'll look back to see what happened in San Francisco, and how overcoming bigotry then prevented a plague pandemic in America.

If you're looking to support the Asian American and Pacific Islander community at this time, two organizations we recommend are the Asian American Pacific Islander Civic Engagement Fund  and Asian American Advancing Justice Atlanta. 

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In the fall of 2020, the Brazilian city of Manaus had the highest SARS CoV-2 infection rate in the world — possibly as high as 75 percent. Some speculated that with rates of infection this high, there would not be enough people left for the virus to infect. Had the city reached so-called natural herd immunity? For a few months cases started to drop but this winter things got worse than ever. We’ll hear what caused this devastating second wave in Manaus, why herd immunity from natural infection wasn’t protective, and why — even with vaccines — we can’t let our guard down.

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The vast majority of Americans accept vaccines but concerns about the effect vaccines could theoretically have on kids have been some of the oldest and most resilient drivers of vaccine mistrust. At this recording, the COVID vaccines authorized for emergency use have not yet been approved for children but if the United States is to eventually reach herd immunity, children will need to be vaccinated. In this second episode in our series on vaccine confidence, we'll hear from a mother who went from being an anti-vaxxer to an advocate for vaccines. 

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Vaccines are a safe and critical public health tool. They prevent crippling childhood diseases like polio. They’re responsible for the eradication of one of the deadliest diseases ever — smallpox — and, today, they’re one of the most important measures we have to end the coronavirus pandemic. But despite these achievements people have been worried about vaccines for as long as they’ve existed and this anxiety is a serious challenge to reaching herd immunity.  In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we look back to the 1800s to learn from the mistakes of the first mass vaccination campaigns in the United Kingdom and  the United States. 

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Where do treatments come from when there's a new disease like COVID-19? The vast majority of drugs prescribed to treat COVID during the pandemic are actually old drugs. Some of the most effective have been around for as much as 70 years. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we’re going to hear how David Fajgenbaum's quest for a treatment for his rare disease is helping find effective treatments for COVID — and other diseases — in surprising places.  

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This is the second in our series on variants of concern. Our previous episode looked at the UK variant, and today we’re looking at the variant that emerged in South Africa: 501Y.V2. This variant is not only more transmissible, but has demonstrated the troubling ability to evade the body's immune system and even some vaccines. We'll hear from experts about how the 501Y.V2 variant is able to do this and what it means for our vaccine strategy in the coming months. 

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This winter a new, more contagious variant of SARS-CoV-2 arose in the United Kingdom: B.1.1.7. The CDC estimates that this will become the dominant strain of coronavirus in the United States by March. This is the first of several episodes on the science and policy implications of the new coronavirus variants emerging out of the UK, South Africa, and Brazil. This episode will discuss how new variants are created, why we need to worry about B.1.1.7, and what this all means for public health in the coming months. 

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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There’s a lot we don’t know about the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus but there is a consensus that it came from animals. This is called zoonosis. HIV, Zika, and Ebola were all viruses in animals before jumping to humans. This is a serious problem. Most new or emerging infectious diseases are the result of zoonotic transmission and we’re seeing more zoonotic diseases appear at a faster rate than ever before. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we speak to some of the scientists looking for the next potential pandemic virus and what could be done to reduce the risk of spillover events in the future.

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This is the second in our two-part series about deaths of despair during the pandemic. We speak with experts and review the latest data on how the pandemic is affecting rates of depression, anxiety, and even suicide in the United States. We’ll look back at what was driving these deaths before the pandemic, how the pandemic is impacting people’s mental health, and  how this crisis may change access to mental health services in the future.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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Overdoses have spiked during the pandemic. One of the reasons is a breakdown in the community support so critical to keeping people off drugs. Social distancing measures and quarantine have created deadly complications for people recovering from addiction. In this episode we'll hear two stories, one from New York City and another from Austin, Indiana, about how the coronavirus pandemic is exacerbating the overdose epidemic. This is the first in a two part series on Deaths of Despair and the pandemic. 

For more information about Imani's Safe House, go to https://www.imanissafehouse.com

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We’re revisiting restaurants as part of our series on industries disrupted by the pandemic. In this episode we speak with restaurateurs and a labor activist about how the pandemic is reshaping how some think about tips and the minimum wage.  We'll see why tipping so is problematic, why it's so hard to quit, and what a living wage might look like for restaurant workers after the pandemic.

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"That's the challenge with infodemics: too much information and not knowing who to trust." - Claire Wardle

Combating misinformation has become more important than ever during the pandemic. The novel coronavirus,  social media, and a polarized political environment created something public health experts have dubbed an "infodemic" — a flood of misleading information and conspiracy theories about the coronavirus and the public response to it. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we'll hear how misinformation spreads online, share some tips on how to spot it, and find out what needs to change to keep misinformation from causing serious harm.

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"Masks are absolutely essential because you can't always control when someone gets too close to you. You can't control the ventilation in every room that you go into. The thing you control the most, that you have one hundred percent control over, is that mask." - Kimberly Prather

As the death toll from COVID-19 surpassed 300,000 in the United States this week, wearing a mask has never been more important. In this episode, Kimberly Prather and Linsey Marr explain the latest science on how the coronavirus spreads, and what it means for the kind of mask people should wear, and other public health measures.

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"If you're going to be traveling, if you're going to be in a situation where you might be exposed to others or where you can protect others by quarantining yourself, right now is the time to do it and to do it carefully because this is when it can be especially effective" -Jeffrey Townsend

Quarantines are an effective way to stop the spread of the coronavirus but they have been one of the most difficult and confusing parts of the pandemic. New research shows how people exposed to the coronavirus could cut their quarantine in half if it is paired with a test at the right time. This episode looks at this research and how it prevented an outbreak on an offshore oil rig.

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"This, quite frankly, is our generation's Manhattan project" -Sree Chaguturu

This has been a big week for vaccines. There are two vaccines under review by the FDA and the United Kingdom has become the first country to authorize Pfizer's mRNA vaccine. In this episode, we'll talk about the science behind mRNA vaccines, and discuss the physical and mental logistics needed to get these revolutionary vaccines to the public. 

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"I was watching the nurses and the doctors and everyone in the healthcare industry just going through this trauma... It was just like people needed help and I had a chance to help." -Jon Gunnell

Thanksgiving is right around the corner but new daily cases of coronavirus are worse than ever. In this episode, we'll hear some tips for how to stay safe this holiday season. We'll also hear the story of a nurse who decided to move across the country to help New York City in the early days of the pandemic.

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"Food is not going to solve the world's problems because food is itself a part of the problem, but food is an opportunity to begin thinking about it." - Tunde Wey

When airlines and other big industries were getting federal aid at the start of the pandemic, chef and artist Tunde Wey argued that the restaurant industry — his own industry — wasn’t worth saving. In this episode, we’ll hear what Tunde thinks is so wrong about how restaurants operate, what the pandemic has done to the industry, and the solutions some restaurateurs are pursuing to re-image a more equitable future.

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"There's this toxic cocktail of low endowment per student, high tuition, low experience, low certification... Those universities could be out of business in a year." - Scott Galloway

Coronavirus concerns forced many universities to close their campuses this fall. The mix of fewer students on campus, canceled athletics, and online courses is threatening the viability of many traditional colleges and universities. But the pandemic is also creating opportunities to re-imagine what higher education could look like in the future. This first episode in our series on COVID's impacts on the economy looks at why some schools are so vulnerable, the next big thing in online education, and how these schools can pivot in a post-pandemic market.

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"We have this long history of seeking personal and individual solutions to public problems and I think the zombie films highlight that." - Robert Wonser

From Night of the Living Dead, to 28 Days Later, and World War Z, pandemics have always been at the heart of zombie movies. In this Halloween edition of Epidemic, we find out what these films get right and wrong about the current coronavirus pandemic, what they can teach us about epidemiology, and how fans of horror movies are experiencing the pandemic differently than the rest of us. 

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"I would put this in very plain English: The way to protect the vulnerable is to have fewer infections, not more infections." - Dr. Tom Frieden

Talk of achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is back in the news, despite the consensus among public health experts that this approach would cost hundreds of thousands of American lives. Former CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden talks about his recent op-ed against this approach and the "one-two punch" to get the pandemic under control.

Then, evolutionary biologist Dr. Mark Pagel explains why some of the traits that make humans so successful as a species are getting in the way of an effective response to the pandemic,  especially when it comes to wearing a face mask.

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“What could be more political [than] the determination of whether the president can fulfill the powers and duties of his office.” —Prof. George Annas

Earlier this month, President Trump announced that he was COVID-positive and was hospitalized for treatment. Since then, a flurry of questions has been raised about his health, and his ability to lead moving forward. Though COVID is new, this is not the first time a president has been seriously ill while serving in office. On today’s episode of EPIDEMIC, we look to history to see how past presidents have handled their health while in office, and what impacts that had on government and politics. Our guests on this episode are Art Caplan (Professor of Medical Ethics at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine), Joel Goldstein (Emeritus professor of law at St Louis University), George Annas (Professor of Health Law, Ethics & Human Rights at Boston University School of Public Health), and John Feerick (professor of law at Fordham University).

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"Healthcare is political. There's a difference between politics and partisanship. Thinking about healthcare as not being political I think is where many doctors and unfortunately our healthcare system stand to lose the most." —Dr. Alister Martin

COVID has made voting a public health issue this year. In this episode, we'll hear how nursing-home workers, doctors, and entrepreneurs are working to get out the vote in the middle of a pandemic.

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“It's not like the straight trajectory towards recovery… It very feels very much like a one step forward, two steps back. People referred to it as the Corona coaster, because you don't know where it's going to take you next” —Diana Berrent

COVID “long-haulers” are people who have extended experiences with COVID symptoms that never let up, or keep recurring. The virus is so new that we do not have a clear picture of what each person’s experience with the disease will be like. In today’s episode, we are hearing from members of the Survivor Corps — a group of COVID long-haulers. Diana Berrent, Marcus Tomoff, Eli Musser, Marjorie Roberts, share their experiences with the ups and downs of relentless COVID symptoms, how the virus has impacted their life, and also their struggles with getting medical care.

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“Public health is one of the few agencies locally that you can guarantee is apolitical. They just care about protecting the health of the community. … But these measures and these tactics by health officers are seen as political and an attempt to limit people's rights.” —Lori Freeman, CEO of the National Association of County and City Health Officials

Public health experts have faced strong backlash for supporting decisions to close businesses and to enforce lockdowns and social distancing measures. How have public health officials balanced these opposing pressures?

On today’s episode of EPIDEMIC, we hear from Lori Freeman (CEO of the National Association of County and City Health Officials) and Theresa Anselmo (executive director of the Colorado Association of Local Public Health Officials), about how public health officials have been affected by this backlash. Then, we speak with Garry Kasparov (chairman of the Human Rights Foundation and the Renew Democracy Initiative) about his first-hand experiences with the fallout from his opposition of the Russian government, and what parallels he sees in present-day America.

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“I think it's a fascinating microcosm of the situation we’re in as a country. I do think the plan has also may be shown a way that the pandemic needs to be attacked on a larger scale, which is what can be done when testing is plentiful and accessible; what can be done when people are taking mask-wearing seriously; what can be done when people are social distancing, seriously, what can we do when people are quarantining seriously?” —Rohan Nadkarni

What would mass testing for COVID look like in America, and what can the world of sports teach us about it? Basketball and baseball teams have used frequent testing with and without strict quarantine to keep the players and coaches safe. On today’s episode of EPIDEMIC, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Michael Mina, an Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at the Harvard Chan School of Public Health, and Sports Illustrated writers Rohan Nadkarni and Stephanie Apstein. They discuss the potential and pitfalls of implementing mass testing in the world of sports and how these lessons may translate to the public at large.

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“Right now … we are in the middle of it, [a] very politicized situation… a lot of divisiveness in our country. So when you try to get a public health message out, unfortunately, it becomes so political that there are those who are in favor of what you want to do from a public health standpoint and those who oppose it to the point of almost as if you were doing something to hurt them.” —Dr. Anthony Fauci

Dr. Anthony Fauci — Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, and a leader of the White House Coronavirus Task Force — join us on today’s episode of the EPIDEMIC podcast. Dr. Fauci and our host Dr. Celine Gounder discuss the progress of developing a COVID vaccine, and the latest breaking-news results from the AstraZeneca Oxford vaccine trial. We then hear Dr. Fauci’s viewpoints on his role in communicating science to the American people, how his fascination with political history (and the Godfather) has sculpted his leadership philosophy, and how the politicization of public health has influenced our experience of this pandemic.

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“If we want to bring students back to college, we have to redefine what college is for the short term… and so we need to think about it with more innovation and depth of thought if we would if we were just applying crisis management models.” —Eleanor Daugherty, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Connecticut

The college experience will look very different for many students gearing up to re-enter schools in the fall. How can colleges prepare to bring students back on campus — if at all? Today, we hear from Eleanor Daugherty, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Connecticut; Dr. Amy Gorin, Professor of Psychological Sciences at UConn; Dr. Rochelle Walensky, Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School; and journalist Allison Slater Tate, about the logistics and planning required to safely resume school in the fall. They discuss social distancing and masking policies on campus, potential scenarios for testing, and the effect this will all have on students’ college experiences.

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“The goal is not to reopen schools; it’s to keep schools open. And if we reopen too fast, just as we reopened States too fast, you saw what happened. States had to shut down and schools would have to shut down. And that for me would be just a travesty. You re-traumatize children and further endanger… their parents and teachers and bus drivers and custodians.” - Arne Duncan, former US Secretary of Education

Normally at this time of year, students would be gearing up for the back-to-school season. But this year, school will look very different for students across the nation. And an even bigger question remains: should schools be opening at all? On today’s episode, we hear from Arne Duncan, former US Secretary of Education from the Obama administration, Stephanie Gounder, a charter school principal in Houston, and journalist Allison Slater Tate. Together, they look back at the impact of remote learning on students, parents, and teachers, and discuss how schools could safely reopen — if at all.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards are open through July 31st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“Now that we see them, my hope is that our field of vision about who is working, and just how valuable they are, continues to widen. And that is it's not only about awareness and clapping for them at seven o'clock at night, but we're actively taking action and demanding that they be protected. Demanding that they be compensated. Demanding that they are able to keep their themselves and their families safe, crisis, or no crisis. “ - Ai-jen Poo, Director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance

The workforce of domestic employees is comprised largely of women and women of color. This group has been severely impacted by COVID-19, facing job insecurity, lack of paid sick days, and low wages. The pandemic relief bills passed by the Senate for essential workers had conspicuously excluded domestic workers, leaving them vulnerable to disruptions caused by the pandemic. In today’s episode, we hear from Ai-jen Poo, the Director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance; Susie Rivera, a home caregiver in Texas; and Glewna Joseph, a housekeeper. We discuss the ways in which their work has been changed by COVID-19, how the pandemic has brought awareness to the need for increased protection of domestic workers’ rights, as well as the steps being taken to bring about these much-needed changes.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards are open through July 31st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“I literally love my job… and being able to wake up and the end of the day and also say … I possibly helped save a life.” — Kimberly Jocelyn

Contact tracers like Kimberly are an integral part of New York City’s plan to reopen safely. If someone tests positive for COVID, contact tracers make it possible to determine which network of people may have been exposed to the virus. But, contact tracers are also tasked with the delicate job of informing someone of their possible exposure. On today’s episode, we speak with Maryama Diaw and Kimberly Jocelyn, who are both contact tracers in New York, about their experiences on the job. We also hear from Dr. Jay Varma, a physician and epidemiologist in New York City, about the science behind contact tracing.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“I don't have any plans on returning in the immediate future. I don't want history to record that COVID grew in America because of irresponsible religious groups… I want to make sure that we are good stewards of health and responsibility.” - Dr. Jamal Bryant

COVID has closed down many religious spaces, profoundly impacting faith communities. Many rituals have been disrupted, and social distancing guidelines are preventing people from gathering. In today’s episode, we hear from Rabbi Elliot Cosgrove, senior rabbi of Park Avenue Synagogue, and Pastor Jamal Bryant of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church. Together, they’ll be examining a question people of all religions are asking right now: what does it mean to be a member of a faith community during a time of social distancing?

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“Loneliness is something we hear a lot from individuals in our community. It's a time of physical distancing. And at first, this was really articulated as social distancing. And I think that's a problem. Yes, we are physically disconnected, but that doesn't mean that we're socially disconnected.” — Lucy Flamm

Since COVID swept through the world, shelter in place and social distancing measures have kept us physically apart from our friends, families, and communities. Loneliness and isolation are pressing concerns as social distancing recommendations continue to be in place. But, being physically apart doesn’t mean that we can’t still come together. In a time of physical separation, mutual aid societies — local networks of neighbors helping out neighbors with anything from picking up groceries to pooling money for tires — are an example of community-building during COVID. In today’s episode, we hear from Dr. Julianne Holt-Lunstad, a psychologist at Brigham Young University that studies the health effects of loneliness. Then, we hear stories from members of the Cambridge Mutual Aid Society — organizing volunteer Lucy Flamm; Jeff Howe, a neighborhood pod leader; and Jackie Jones, a community advocate, and mutual aid recipient — about how COVID and mutual aid has changed their communities.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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"...the pandemic has simply highlighted for some people that hypocrisy, where politicians use so-called medical reasons, protecting women's health, as an excuse for what are really political goals, which is to end access to safe and legal abortion writ large." -Cecile Richards

The COVID-19 pandemic has had profound effects on women's’ access to abortion services and reproductive health. In some states, abortion was categorized as elective surgery, and procedures were suspended. In today’s episode, we hear from Cecile Richards, the former president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Kersha Deibel, President and CEO of Planned Parenthood Southwest Ohio, and an abortion provider. They discuss the barriers to reproductive health access raised by COVID-19, the disparities this causes, and the impacts on women and healthcare providers.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“They say, you need to keep a minimum of six feet distance between people, but we're usually within 10 inches of our clients for the entire time that they are in the salon. The biggest risk is when you're in extended or prolonged, rather contact with somebody and the CDC defines that as more than 15 minutes. I don't know if you've ever had a haircut that took less than 15 minutes, but generally speaking, we cannot social distance from our clients.” - Nicola Corl

With the economy re-opening, many workers in America are choosing between protecting their own health and protecting their businesses. This is particularly striking for hands-on workers - like hairstylist Nicola Corl, make-up artist Latia Curtis, and massage therapist Shannon Adams - who cannot work from home or socially distance from their clients. In today’s episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Nicola, Latia, and Shannon, about how coronavirus has impacted their industries, and how they have personally balanced business and health during the pandemic.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“An immunity passport system would create a two-tier system because it would divide all of us into those who are immune to COVID-19 and those who are not. And the people who are immune will get all of the benefits and privileges that come with that while everybody else who's not immune will be in a second class status.” - Esha Bhandari

How do we balance the reopening of the economy with public health and safety? Some have proposed an “immune passport” system, where those with proven COVID immunity could be cleared to resume normal work and life. This idea is not a new one — it has been tried once before during the 19th-century Yellow Fever epidemic. In today’s episode, we examine the insidious use of “immune privilege” during the Yellow Fever epidemic, its historical impacts, and its parallels to today. Our host, Dr. Celine Gounder, speaks with Dr. Juanita Mora, an allergist and immunologist practicing in Chicago, Dr. Kathryn Olivarius, professor of history at Stanford University, and Esha Bhandari senior staff attorney with the ACLU Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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“Just like cholera exposed the weaknesses in European society, COVID is doing the same for us. ...The bubonic plague and cholera for example were devastating pandemics, but they also lead to the creation of modern public health and sanitation. There’s still a chance for COVID to have its own silver linings, even if we can’t see them right now.” -Dr. Celine Gounder

Pandemics have played a huge role in human history. The Black Death had huge implications for economics, politics, medicine, and religion, and it wasn’t the only disease to upend a civilization. In today’s episode of “Epidemic,” Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Dr. Josh Loomis and Dr. Frank Snowden about a few examples of how disease shaped the world we live in today, and what those events might tell us about what to expect after the COVID pandemic ends. Josh Loomis is a microbiologist and the author of Epidemics: The Impact of Germs and Their Power Over Humanity. Frank Snowden is a Professor of History and the History of Medicine at Yale University.

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“We all believe that we need a national plan in the face of a national emergency, a United response for the United States… We're all in these parts of the same country. You can't control the pandemic without some degree of coordination.” - Ed Yong

What kind of coordinated national response is required for a national health crisis like COVID-19? Today on "Epidemic," Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Howard Koh, Professor of Public Health Leadership at the Harvard School of Public Health, and Ed Yong, staff writer for the Atlantic. They discuss the "patchwork pandemic" we are experiencing, where the country is divided on how it's responding to -- and being impacted by -- COVID-19. They'll examine the degree of federal leadership that is required for an effective COVID-19 response, and the consequences suffered from failing to implement a nationally coordinated plan.

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“So when will it come back? You know, I'm a historian, so I'm uncomfortable with predicting the future, but as a doctor, if I were making a prognosis, I would say it's going to come back.” — Dr. Howard Markel

“It does get weary when you see the same mistakes being made over and over and over again. And many of the mistakes of past pandemics are being made today, particularly in how we're administering and reacting to it.“ — Dr. Howard Markel

With states gradually starting to re-open, many are wondering whether we will face a second wave of infections. In today’s episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Howard Markel, a physician and medical historian at the University of Michigan School of Public Health. They ask the question: can history help us prepare for the future? They discuss the lessons that the Influenza Pandemic of 1918 can teach us about COVID-19, and consider whether the history of the 1918 pandemic is repeating itself in present day.

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"In our case, we're trying to transfer an antibody from one person to another. And it's actually a simpler idea because the recipient of an antibody RNA does not have to really respond to it. They just make it, and they have instant immunity." -Dr. James Crowe

In today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. James Crowe, Director of the Vaccine Center at Vanderbilt Medical Center, about the next phase in antibody-based therapies, which is being spearheaded by Dr. Crowe’s lab at Vanderbilt. They are working on a technique to manufacture immunity in a test tube by isolating a single antibody for a disease that can be used to specifically target and fight that disease. They talk about the upcoming clinical trials of monoclonal antibodies for treatment of COVID-19, and how this method differs from convalescent plasma and vaccination. Finally, they discuss the next frontier- how science may soon take us beyond drug treatments and into a realm where our bodies are programmed to defeat a virus before we’ve ever encountered it… a true magic bullet.

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"In the United States, we have a relatively low threat history. We're separated by two oceans from other continents. We haven't been afraid of Canada, Mexico, chronically invading us. We haven't been afraid of constant fury from mother nature. And so, as a result, we have a harder time tightening up than other countries under these conditions because it's hard for people to sacrifice the kind of liberty and freedom that we've had for constraints and rules.” - Michele Gelfand

In today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder and former co-host Ron Klain interview two experts, Michele Gelfand and Howard Lavine, about why Republicans and Democrats are so deeply divided over almost everything to do with COVID. They discuss the shift towards identity politics and why people tend to vote along the lines of their chosen political party instead of in their best personal interests, and how this complicates different states’ responses to COVID. They also examine how a community’s history of threats in the past shapes their response to crises today.

Michele Gelfand is a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland, and is the author of "Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World." Howard Lavine is the Associate Dean of Social Sciences and a professor of political science and psychology at the University of Minnesota. He's the co-author of the book "Open Versus Closed: Personality, Identity, and the Politics of Redistribution,” and the editor of the journal Advances in Political Psychology.

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“With penicillin, for example, you needed a few days to begin to get better. With antibodies, these people got better within hours, almost as if the antibody was mediating an antitoxin effect.” - Arturo Casadevall

In today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Arturo Casadevall, Chair of the Department of Molecular Microbiology and Immunology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, about convalescent plasma, the transfer of antibodies from a disease survivor to a disease patient. They discuss the history of convalescent plasma transfer, how it has been used in the past during other infectious disease outbreaks, such as diphtheria and measles, and how the invention of antibiotics led to the decline of this treatment method in the United States. They also talk about the current research studies being done to test the effectiveness of this treatment method on COVID-19 patients. Our host also speaks with Michael Busch,  the Director of the Vitalant Research Institute, about how convalescent plasma transfer is currently being used as a treatment for COVID-19 patients at different stages of infection. They also discuss the process of convalescent plasma donation, something that anyone who has recovered from COVID-19 and now has antibodies can do.

Listener Q&A: Should I go on an out-of-state trip with my husband’s family? I am antibody negative, how can I minimize the risk of becoming exposed to COVID-19 on the trip?

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“I think there's always sort of like Indian humor with everything and so there were a lot of people making jokes about Trump putting a travel ban in place to stop the spread of disease from Europe. A lot of native people on Twitter and Facebook were commenting that it was, you know, a few centuries too late." -Rebecca Nagle

In this episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Rebecca Nagle, Dr. Melissa Begay, and Jamescita Peshlakai about why the Navajo Nation has been so hard hit by COVID, and what their communities are doing to protect everyone—young and old—during this pandemic. The Navajo Nation is the nation’s largest indigenous tribe and has the highest per capita infection rate of COVID in the United States.

Dr. Melissa Begay is a member of the Navajo Nation, and a physician at the University of New Mexico in the Department of Pulmonary, Sleep and Critical Care. Jamescita Peshlakai is an Arizona State Representative and represents eight tribes in her district, including the Navajo. Rebecca Nagle is an Indigenous rights activist, writer and speaker, and a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. She also hosts the Crooked Media podcast, “This Land,” about a Supreme Court case on the land rights of indigenous peoples in Oklahoma.

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“Terrible diseases like smallpox, polio, yellow fever where, you know, the capital in the United States in those days, Philadelphia, in the 1700s, 10% of the population died. When you vaccinate against them, you prevent them, and they no longer are problems.” - Seth Berkley

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Seth Berkley and Dr. Peter Hotez about a topic that has received a lot of attention lately-- vaccines. They discuss the processes involved in developing a vaccine for COVID-19, including when we can realistically expect a vaccine to become available to the public. They talk about the concept of herd immunity and how high vaccination rates are an essential component to this process. They also discuss the anti-vaxxer movement and how mis-messaging may be playing a part in fueling the flames of this movement in regards to a COVID-19 vaccine. Finally, they talk about the need for continued vaccine research in order to be prepared for the next inevitable pandemic.

Also, co-host Ron Klain says his farewell to “Epidemic” fans as he announces that this will be his final episode as a co-host of the podcast.

Seth Berkley is the CEO of the GAVI Vaccine Alliance. Dr. Peter Hotez is Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.

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"I think there are some people who are afraid that the truth will hurt the economy. That if we let CDC speak the truth, that will hurt stock prices, that will hurt people's jobs and the manufacturing sector. But even when the truth may hurt, even when it's painful, we've got to know the truth. And right now, people are taking steps to keep CDC from speaking the truth.” -Dr. Mark Rosenberg

In this episode, our co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak to former CDC scientists Dr. Mark Rosenberg and Dr. Jim Curran about the CDC’s lack of action during the COVID pandemic, and how CDC guidelines and research have been suppressed and muzzled. They discuss the agency’s complicated history with politicians, parallels with the HIV epidemic, what’s happening to the CDC’s work in the time of COVID, and what’s at stake when politics take precedent over science. Dr. Mark Rosenberg is a retired medical epidemiologist with the CDC and President Emeritus of the Task Force for Global Health. Dr. Jim Curran led the CDC’s HIV/AIDS Division before becoming an Assistant Surgeon General and now Dean of the Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University.

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“Antibodies are the easiest part of the immune system to measure. It's not the only part that's required for protection against this virus.” - Stanley Perlman

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain continue their discussion of the immune system. They speak with Stanley Perlman and Dr. Jon Yewdell about what happens when a virus enters the body and the different types of cells involved in each stage of the immune response against the virus. They talk about what is known so far about how the immune system reacts to a COVID infection and the degree of immunity that results post-infection. They also discuss how understanding the immune response is an important factor in developing an effective vaccine for COVID and putting an end to the current pandemic.

Stanley Perlman is a professor of microbiology, immunology and pediatric infectious diseases at the University of Iowa. Dr. Jon Yewdell is a researcher at the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, where he studies viruses, immunity to viruses, and the cell biology of viral infections.

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“Every night... we are literally cheering and clapping and beeping our horns for people that in many ways we're unwilling to fight for so that they could have $15 an hour. We call people essential workers now who we treated for so long, like anything but essential.” -Rashad Robinson

In this episode, our co-host, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Rashad Robinson, Alicia Garza, and Marshall Ganz about essential workers such as caregivers, domestic workers, and agricultural workers. They discuss how these low-paying jobs are often staffed by immigrants and people of color, and how due to systemic racism these jobs have historically been excluded from laws and unions that protect workers. Essential workers are now being given the false choice between going to work and risking their health, or staying home and not being able to feed their families.

Alicia Garza is the principal at Black Futures Lab, the co-creator of the Black Lives Matter Global Network, and the strategy and partnerships director for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Rashad Robinson is the President of Color of Change, a racial justice organization, and Marshall Ganz is a labor organizer and senior lecturer at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.

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“A lot of people don't realize this, but there are other cold-inducing coronaviruses that give us the common cold that we've all had in our lives, and some of those coronaviruses can give you antibodies that would give a positive test on some SARS-CoV-2, COVID tests.” – Dr. Matt Memoli

In this episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain discuss the science of the immune response and the role antibodies can play in how the immune system responds to an infection. They talk with Kaitlyn Sadtler, PhD, an investigator at the National Institutes of Health, and Dr. Matt Memoli, director of the Lab of Infectious Diseases Clinical Studies Unit at the National Institutes of Health, about how the body builds immunity to future infections, as well as how scientists determine how long such immunity will last. Does someone who has experienced a COVID-19 infection acquire lasting immunity to the virus?

Matt and Kaitlyn also discuss their own research and how it can help better determine the spread of coronavirus infection in the United States, as well as better understand whether the presence of antibodies confers immunity against future COVID-19 infections.

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"Still, like 90% of our patients are COVID patients. This is still not normal.” -Dr. Celine Gounder

In this episode, our co-host, Dr. Celine Gounder, shares how her experience treating patients at Bellevue Hospital in New York City is different in early May 2020 than it was March and April.

In addition, Dr. Gounder and co-host Ron Klain speak with Dr. Geoffrey Baird at the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle on why his hospital was way head of the rest of the country in testing for COVID-19 and what some of the challenges are likely to be going forward.

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"I can't stress this enough. Rudy Gobert testing positive was the best thing that happened for the NBA. It arguably, in many ways, is the best thing that happened for this country. I don't think people were taking this seriously, Celine, until they found out an entity like the NBA could suspend its season because of the coronavirus.” -Rohan Nadkarni

In this episode, our co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak to Rohan Nadkarni, Grant Wahl, and Peter King and look at the pandemic through the lens of basketball, soccer, and football to see how COVID is changing the way sports are played. They discuss what these games might look like for fans and players when they resume, how COVID is affecting the business of sports, and what the consequences are of trying to play sports in the middle of the pandemic. Grant Wahl is America's leading soccer journalist. He spent 24 years at Sports Illustrated, covering college basketball and soccer, and is the author of the New York Times bestseller, “ The Beckham Experiment,” as well as “Masters of Modern Soccer.” Rohan Nadkarni covers basketball for Sports Illustrated. Peter King covers football for NBC Sports, is the author of five books, and has been named National Sportswriter of the Year three times.

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“It's scary for everybody, but imagine yourself being someone that can't socially isolate, that has no home, that doesn't have a TV and doesn't know what's going on. And all of a sudden, everyone has disappeared.” -Cindy Funkhouser, CEO Sulzbacher Center

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with three advocates working to end homelessness. Rosanne Haggerty is the founder of Community Solutions in New York, and Jack Maguire the co-director of the Built for Zero Initiative at Community Solutions. These organizations work with more than 80 cities using data to prevent homelessness, build and sustain homeless response systems, and deliver affordable housing. Dr. Gounder and Ron Klain also talk with Cindy Funkhouser, the CEO of the Sulzbacher Center in Jacksonville, Florida. The Sulzbacher Center works to address all aspects of homelessness through a continuum of care. They discuss what it means to be homeless in America during the time of COVID, and how to address the additional challenges people experiencing homelessness face during this time.

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“We want to make sure everybody's prepared because we know COVID 19 is just one epidemic that we're currently facing. There's going to be another one in the pipeline, and we need to make sure that we're investing today for tomorrow.” - Syra Madad

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Syra Madad, Senior Director of the Special Pathogens Program, New York City Health and Hospitals. Syra shares her experience preparing for a potential disease outbreak like SARS in New York City, and how this preparation helped to lay the foundation for healthcare professionals in New York during the COVID pandemic. They also talk about Syra’s personal experience being diagnosed with COVID while living in a home with small children and at-risk persons. Dr. Gounder and Ron Klain also talk to Dr. John Lynch, Medical Director for Infection Control at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. They discuss how Washington, the state with the first confirmed case of COVID in the US, took action through house assessments to test as many people as possible with COVID symptoms, and how this process changed once community spread began to widely take place. Finally, they speak with Reid Wilson, a reporter with The Hill. They talk about how the epicenter of the coronavirus is making its way from large cities, such as Seattle and New York City, to more rural areas of the US, including Native American reservations, and why this is worrisome. They also discuss how, even as some states begin reopening, many Americans do not feel like they are ready to return to normal life.

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“We’re not working from home because we want to. Many of us are working from home because we have to. We are all thrust into this social distancing as a result of the pandemic, and in a very short time, we’ve had to adapt to some very unusual circumstances.” - Dr. William Kassler, Chief Medical Officer, IBM

In this episode, Dr. Celine Gounder talks to Adam Grant, a professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. They discuss work during a pandemic and which companies are taking considerations to continue to take care of their employees, and which companies aren’t. They also discuss what good leadership during a crisis really looks like, and whether the COVID-19 pandemic may change the kinds of benefits that employers offer their employees. Finally, they discuss how companies can improve their work-from-home culture, as well as how their pandemic may change people’s work-life/home-life balance permanently.

Dr. Gounder also speaks with Dr. William Kassler, the Chief Medical Officer for IBM, and Katie McGrath, co-CEO and Chief Strategy Officer at Bad Robot Productions about discuss mental health during a crisis, and how companies can best support their workers’ mental health during this uncertain time. They also discuss the importance of developing resilience and what exactly this entails.

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“COVID-19 is the great revealer. It’s showing every crack and fault in the healthcare coverage system.” - Dr. Donald Berwick

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Dr. Donald Berwick, former administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and senior fellow for the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, about how COVID-19 has exposed the vulnerabilities of the U.S. healthcare system to a public health crisis. They also discuss how the Affordable Care Act has provided a safety net for many Americans during these uncertain times, and how coronavirus relief bills, the CARES Act, attempt to address further gaps in the system. Finally, they discuss how both rural and urban hospitals will be affected by the pandemic from an economic standpoint.

They also speak with Karen Pollitz, a senior fellow at the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation and a four-time cancer survivor, about how important it is to have health insurance coverage when a crisis strikes, and how terrifying it can be to lose coverage during these times. Karen also explains options for those who have lost coverage and are struggling to figure out how to cover themselves and loved ones during this unpredictable time in our country, and how to weigh their options, depending on individual circumstances.

Listener Q&A: How does contact tracing and quarantine work for a disease where many cases are asymptomatic and many do not even realize they are sick?

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“We are not ready to put at risk the lives of those who are going to be on the front lines. And let’s be clear, we’re talking about populations that are likely to be people of color... and likely to be women. These are low-wage workers who do not have the luxury of refusing to return to work. If they refuse the call of their employers, because we live in a right-to-work state, they are subject to termination. This means that people are literally being told to either come back to work, or risk the lives of your families.” - Stacey Abrams

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Stacey Abrams, a national leader in voting rights and former Democratic nominee for Governor of Georgia, about Georgia Governor Brian Kemp’s decision to re-open much of the state amidst the COVID-19 pandemic. They discuss how some populations, such as low-wage workers and people of color, will bear the brunt of this decision, as many are forced to choose between their jobs and the safety of their loved ones. They also discuss what voter suppression is how citizens can still exercise their right to vote in the midst of the ongoing pandemic. They talk about how the pandemic could affect the 2020 census. Finally, they discuss how the pandemic has exposed inequities in the U.S., and what can be done to close the gaps that remain in order to come out of this pandemic stronger than ever as a country.

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"Resources that we've been using as reasonable accommodations are now being taken up by the rest of society due to shelter in place policies, and obviously this is something that's really important to do.” -Rebecca Cokley

In today’s episode, co-hosts Ron Klain and Dr. Celine Gounder speak with Senator Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire. Senator Hassan discusses her work in the Senate as the senior Democrat on the Senate Subcommittee on Oversight and Emergency Management of the Homeland Security Committee. Senator Hassan also discusses the impact the pandemic has had on her personally, as she tries to keep her family, including her son who has severe cerebral palsy, healthy and safe. This episode also features an interview with Rebecca Cokley, a disability rights activist and Director of the Disability Justice Initiative at the Center for American Progress. Rebecca discusses the challenges this pandemic has presented to persons with disabilities.

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“As a nation, we've got to put in place a public health system that includes disease preparedness, so that we're ready for whatever is the next shock. And that all of us, no matter who we are, what social-economic status, what race, ethnicity, what job we have, that we don't have to go through this again. It's in our hands. We can do it. And it is within our reach to be able to end these sorts of unacceptable wealth and health disparities.” - Dr. Helene Gayle

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Dr. Helene Gayle, CEO of the Chicago Community Trust, and Dr. Aletha Maybank, the Chief Equity Officer at the American Medical Association, about the health and wealth gaps that exist in poorer communities in the US, and how COVID-19 has widened these gaps, leaving members of these communities more vulnerable to the effects of COVID-19. They also discuss how racial stereotypes are affecting many people’s abilities to follow public health guidelines, such as the use of face masks. Finally, they discuss how, in order to move past these stereotypes and biases, we need good data, and policies informed by this data, as cases of COVID-19 are likely being underreported in communities of color, leading to a lack of help in areas that need it most.

Listener Q&A: Is it possible to safely reopen the country before herd immunity or a vaccine? What can we expect from the second wave of COVID-19 cases when social distancing measures are lifted, and what can we learn from prior pandemics to prepare?

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“There’s no social distancing in the prisons, almost no protective gear for anybody, and if you also have a serious mental illness… you can’t expect them to take any of the precautions that include keeping away from other people. And you can’t expect them to take care of themselves when they can’t do it for their larger illnesses. If we look at those who are most vulnerable to getting the virus, or spreading the virus, it’s more likely to be those who are most vulnerable in our populations generally.” -Norman Ornstein

In today’s episode, co-hosts Ron Klain and Dr. Celine Gounder speak with Judge Steve Leifman and Norm Ornstein. Judge Leifman, works in the Eleventh Judicial Circuit in Miami- Dade County, Florida. He designed the Miami model to address the needs of people living with mental illness in their interactions with the criminal justice system. Norm Ornstein, a leading expert on American government, is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and a columnist for The National Journal and The Atlantic.  They discuss how COVID is affecting people with mental illness.

This episode also includes discussions on the challenges facing the criminal justice system during the COVID-19 pandemic and the impacts on individuals who are incarcerated during this time.  Our co-hosts interview two individuals with knowledge of the New York City criminal justice system: Rosie Santiago, whose brother contracted COVID-19 while being held at Manhattan Detention Center, and Dr. Homer Venters, the former Chief Medical Officer of New York City’s Correctional Health Services."

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"The other point I made about ventilators is, they're not a panacea. Many patients don't survive them, but I don't think that reduces their importance. I think, if anything, the fact that many patients don't survive means we need to make sure that as many patients as could benefit from them actually get them. I hope that one thing we get out of this crisis is enough of a supply so that, if and when we have a future pandemic like this, we are ready." –David Lat, COVID-19 survivor

In today’s episode, Ron Klain and Dr Celine Gounder speak with David Lat, a 44-year-old legal journalist who endured days unconscious on a ventilator to survive COVID-19. Still on a path to recovery, he shares his experience and the impact the disease has had on his family and his career, and how he is making a contribution to research going forward.

This episode also includes a first-hand account from a frontline healthcare provider in Michigan, Dr. Scott Regenbogen who candidly discusses how doctors are preparing for potentially very difficult decisions in the weeks ahead.

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“I mean, many of us spent the whole ‘80’s in a state of terror, knowing that we'd been exposed, not knowing our status, not knowing whether we were going to live or die. And I think the vast majority of the population now has exactly the same feeling, where they don't know if they've been exposed. They don't know if they're going to get sick. Every single person is a risk.” - Mark Harrington, Executive Director and co-founder of the Treatment Action Group

In today’s episode, co-host Dr. Celine Gounder talks to Peter Staley and Mark Harrington, members of Act Up, co-founders of the Treatment Action Group, and dedicated HIV/AIDS activists who know firsthand what it is like to live through a large-scale pandemic. They discuss their experiences as activists during a pandemic, including challenges, such as a lack of needed support from government and issues surrounding research and treatments, as well as how they are continuing their activism today through the founding of the COVID Working Group of New York. They also discuss similarities between the HIV/AIDs pandemic and COVID-19 today, including the magnification of health disparities that these infectious diseases bring about, as well as the man who has been there through it all, Dr. Tony Fauci.

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"It’s not an on/off switch. We are living with coronavirus until we get a vaccine, and that could be 18 months, if we’re lucky.” - Juliette Kayyem

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain discuss what we could have seen coming with this pandemic and speak with Juliette Kayyem, faculty chair of the Homeland Security Program at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government and a security analyst at CNN, about the differences in approaches to the COVID-19 pandemic between public health and homeland security, the roles that both state and federal governments must play during this pandemic, and some of the failures that have happened thus far. They also talk about what we can expect to see in the coming months in the US. On March 21, 2020, Juliette Kayyem, published an article in The Atlantic, “The Crisis Could Last 18 Months. Be Prepared,” https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/there-isnt-going-be-all-clear-signal/608512/

We also hear from a healthcare worker on the frontlines at a trauma center in New Jersey about the shortages of protective gear and other essential equipment that his hospital is facing.

Listener Q&A: How effective are convalescent serum and remdesivir in treating COVID-19?

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"People who don’t have access to medical care, people who don’t have access to the healthcare system in general, are going to be much more vulnerable. They are not going to be treated, they are going to get sick, they are more likely to die, and they are also more likely to spread the virus to other people.” -Jeneen Interlandi

Co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with New York Times journalist and editorial board member, Jeneen Interlandi, a key member of the Times 1619 project, about how issues of race historically, and in the present day, impact access to healthcare in America.

They also talk with Greg Asbed, co-founder of the Fair Food Program, and a long-time human rights advocate about how COVID-19 is impacting farmworkers and our food supply—and how we need to look at farmworkers as “essential services.”

Listener Q&A: How effective are school closures in preventing the spread of COVID-19? What is the efficacy of homemade masks when at work?

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“I think today we are going to be doing roughly 125,000 meals across America in very strategic places. Restaurants transforming to Community Kitchens are going to be playing a vital role in every neighborhood of America to provide basic food relief for people in need. And obviously, if you can, you pay, but if you cannot pay, that's fine. No questions asked.” – Chef Jose Andres

How do you feed people during a crisis? Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain talk to Chef Jose Andres, who has fed millions during hurricanes, tsunamis, and all forms of natural disasters, about his work in feeding patients and others impacted by the coronavirus.

We also discuss the President's latest comments about health care workers, hear from someone on the front lines, and take your questions, including how to safely bring groceries and delivery food into your home.

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“The nation is confronting this kind of social distancing and quarantine for the first time in the modern era, and it isn't clear to me that the laws in place are going to be sufficient. We haven't had enough protections. We don't have paid sick leave, a lot of companies are not giving time off to low wage workers in a way that makes them feel secure...And so this is a problem because not all communities are equally protected right now.” – Vanita Gupta

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain talk with Vanita Gupta, one of the nation's leading civil rights lawyers. Gupta is the President and CEO of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights and is on lists to be a future Supreme Court appointee. Previously, she was the Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General and head of the Civil Right Division at the U.S. Department of Justice, as well as Deputy Legal Director of the American Civil Liberties Union. Gupta discusses the responsibility the media has in reinforcing anti-Chinese xenophobia, as well as the lack of sick leave and other protections that need to be in place for American workers. Finally, our hosts answer listener questions- including the role of wearing a home-made mask.

They also speak with Michael Macagnone, a policy reporter with Congressional Quarterly Roll Call, who has been covering the 2020 census. They discuss the huge challenge that coronavirus poses to the census, and how it may exacerbate the undercount of minorities, young children, people in rural areas, and Native Americans on reservations.

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"I have to say it's really weird to be at Bellevue right now. On the one hand, it feels like a ghost town. Basically, the hospital has cleared out, largely devoting itself to coronavirus patients. It's eerily quiet except for pages overheard every hour or so for patients who are getting worse and need to be transferred to the ICU and put on a ventilator." -Co-host, Dr. Celine Gounder

In this episode, Dr Celine Gounder opens by sharing observations from her day in service at Bellevue Hospital in New York City on Sunday, March 22, 2020.

Co-hosts Dr Gounder and Ron Klain also talk with Adam Grant, one of the world's leading experts on how to motivate people.They discuss how we inspire people to do the right thing, and how we keep them from doing the wrong ones.

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On March 14, 2020, Roxanne Khamsi published an article in Wired magazine: "They Say Coronavirus Isn't Airborne—but It's Definitely Borne By Air."

In today's episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Roxanne and Dr. Lydia Bourouiba, an Associate Professor at MIT who directs the Fluid Dynamics of Disease Transmission Laboratory. They speak about the difference between airborne and droplet, and what that means for the safety of healthcare workers and the precautions that individuals should be taking. They also discuss the science behind the 6-feet social distancing guideline, which is based on models that predict how far droplets travel in air, and the flaws in these models that may vastly underestimate how far the virus can travel.

“I wanted to know what airborne meant. What does the word airborne actually mean when scientists and biologists talk about it? Because I detected that there was a debate underlying the debate. In other words, I felt that there were people debating whether it was airborne, but part of me felt that there wasn't even consensus about what the word airborne meant. And that that could be a huge problem in both scientists talking amongst themselves, but also about the public understanding of the transmission of this disease.” -Roxanne Khamsi

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Michael Donnelly is a professional data scientist, policy researcher, and economist. He joined us to discuss epidemiological modeling of the #SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #coronavirus epidemic in the U.S. His conclusion: we're running out of time.

You can read Michael's Medium posts here:

https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/no-good-options-dda04260b232

https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-new-york-will-be-the-next-italy-but-doesnt-have-to-be-54a5c8137d42

https://medium.com/@donnellymjd/covid-19-nyc-should-brace-for-impact-and-shut-down-now-a7c62afac81e

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“I think as we get testing capability out, and we get the ability to treat the population, we can't forget that there's many people that don't have the choice to self-isolate. They have to go to work every day because they get paid by the hour, and we have to do our best to keep them healthy.” - Andy Slavitt

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Dan Diamond, a health journalist for Politico in Washington. They discuss what the coronavirus relief bill currently passing through Congress includes. They also discuss how conflict within the White House administration may be complicating the pandemic response in the United States. The co-hosts are also joined on this episode by Andy Slavitt, head of Medicare and Medicaid during the Obama administration. Andy speaks about how COVID-19 testing will be paid for in the United States, as well as how those without insurance or those who are undocumented will be cared for during the pandemic. He also discusses the impact that COVID-19 will have on Medicare and Medicaid, and how we can act now to build more resilience into our systems for future pandemics. 

Listener Q&A:  What are the risks of contracting the virus via mail or via deliveries of groceries or prepared food from restaurants? Should parents limit their children's exposure to all other children, or are playdates and neighborhood interactions alright? How important will it be to expand testing in order to track the mutation rates of the COVID-19 virus?

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“The goal is to try to keep as many people from being infected for as long as possible to try to effectively stretch this thing out so that the hospitals are dealing with fewer cases.” - Helen Branswell 

In today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain discuss the concept of flattening the curve and what impact this can have on healthcare workers and hospitals. They speak with Helen Branswell, a leading infectious disease reporter at STAT. Helen speaks about what other countries are doing to fight against the pandemic and flatten their own curves, and how these measures compare to measures currently being taken in the United States. The co-hosts also speak with Dr. Craig Spencer from Columbia University Medical Center, a member of the Board of Directors of Doctors Without Borders for the United States. Dr. Craig Spencer discusses his own experiences in working as a healthcare worker during other infectious disease outbreaks, including the Ebola epidemic in Guinea, where he himself became infected, but was successfully treated back home in the United States. He also talks about the kinds of tough choices that healthcare workers in the United States will soon have to face.

Listener Q&A: Should my 89-year old mother come to live with me in order to decrease her chances of becoming infected with COVID-19, or is it safer for her to isolate herself in her apartment? Why don't state health departments take public health guidance on COVID-19 from WHO or academia, rather than the CDC and federal government? Would there be legal repercussions if states were to follow the recommendations of their own experts? Is there any evidence that moving college courses online will really slow the spread of the virus?

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Our special guest this week is Dr. Tom Frieden, the former director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and former commissioner of the New York City Health Department. As head of the CDC during the Ebola epidemic in 2014, he played a critical role in the CDC’s unprecedented and heroic deployment of personnel to West Africa and was President Obama’s top public health advisor. Dr. Frieden is currently the President and CEO of Resolve to Save Lives, a global non-profit initiative of Vital Strategies, working with countries to prevent 100 million deaths and make the world safer from epidemics. You can find him on Twitter @DrTomFrieden.

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“We cannot build a wall, a real wall, or a metaphorical wall to keep this disease out. We have to understand it's coming. It's here already. It's going to come to a greater extent and we need to be preparing to deal with that.” -Ron Klain

In today’s episode, our co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain discuss whether the U.S. should be appointing a coronavirus czar to oversee and coordinate the national response to COVID-19. They share thoughts on the U.S. response so far, including travel restrictions, social distancing, and the decision to appoint Vice President Mike Pence to head the coronavirus response. They end by answering listener questions on traveling for spring break and address discrimination against Chinese Americans.

Is it time to call #SARS-CoV-2 #COVID-19 #coronavirus epidemic a pandemic?

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Hosted by Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist who has worked on tuberculosis and HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, and was an Ebola worker during the West African epidemic. And co-hosted by Ron Klain, the U.S. Ebola czar from 2014 to 2015. 

As we transition from regional epidemics to a full-on pandemic, we’re likely to see coronavirus spread here in the U.S. There are things we can do to prepare, to care for ourselves, our families, and our communities. 

Email us your questions at hello@justhumanproductions.org or tweet us @celinegounder and @ronaldklain. We’ll answer a couple of questions on the show each week.

#SARS-CoV-2 #COVID19 #coronavirus

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