In this episode:

• 05:09 — God knows all things. Why that truth can be both comforting and frustrating when we don't know what comes next.
• 07:35 — Trusting God through uncertainty. Kevin shares his experience navigating a potentially life-changing career decision.
• 11:57 — Acting on spiritual impressions. Justin and Kevin discuss ideas, inspiration, stewardship, and the cost of waiting to act.
• 15:28 — From everlasting to everlasting. What eternity might mean from our limited mortal perspective.
• 17:00 — Who are the ministering angels? Exploring the possibility of heavenly help and ordinary people becoming instruments in God's hands.
• 19:38 — God orchestrating angels. A personal moment about how friendship can become a form of divine ministering.
• 24:22 — Making ministering simpler. Kevin opens up about struggling with the expectations and practical realities of ministering.
• 29:00 — What Justin changed about ministering. How small, thoughtful acts of kindness transformed his approach.
• 33:37 — A realization in real time. Kevin discovers something he can do immediately for the families he ministers to.
• 39:06 — You're not alone. A conversation about one of the simplest and most meaningful gifts we can give another person.

A question to ponder:

What if our responsibility as ministers isn't to do something impressive, but simply to help someone experience a little more of the goodness of Christ?

And who in our lives might need to know today that they're not alone?

Join the conversation.

We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions, or favorite scriptures. Leave us a comment, share a verse you'd like us to explore, and join us every Tuesday for another conversation.

The Ponderverse — Two Dudes Pondering the Universe, One Verse at a Time.

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Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

“For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little…”

What does “line upon line” actually look like in real life?

Kevin and Justin begin with Nephi’s warning about deception and false teachings in the last days, but one verse sends the conversation somewhere much more personal.

They wrestle with the difference between information, knowledge, and wisdom. They talk about why God may intentionally teach us gradually, why the same scripture can mean something different during different seasons of life, and why “receiving” God’s counsel may require much more than simply hearing it.

Along the way, they explore parenting, construction, football, failure, career changes, patriarchal blessings, faith, doubt, and the humility required to admit: I don’t know yet.

One idea keeps resurfacing:

Maybe the goal isn’t to finally have all the answers.

Maybe the goal is to remain teachable enough to keep receiving more.

One verse. Two dudes. A conversation.

Two Dudes Pondering the Universe, One Verse at a Time.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

That word—yields—stopped us.

In Mosiah 3:19, King Benjamin describes the natural man as an enemy to God and then gives us a picture of what becoming something different might look like.

But what exactly is the “natural man”? Does being an “enemy to God” mean we’re actively fighting against Him—or could it simply describe what happens when our choices move us away from Him?

And why yield?

That question leads Kevin and Justin into an unexpected analogy involving traffic signs, rivers, temptation, and the difference between being swept somewhere and consciously choosing a direction.

From there, the conversation explores what it might really mean to become “as a child”: submissive, meek, humble, patient, and full of love.

They also wrestle with one of the harder phrases in the verse:

“Willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him.”

Why would a loving God allow—or even use—hard things?

Justin shares a deeply personal realization about his own children and a thought that has changed the way he approaches their spiritual journeys:

They were God’s children before they were ours.

Maybe becoming like a child isn’t about knowing less.

Maybe it’s about trusting more.

Scripture: Mosiah 3:19

Ponder with us: Where might God be asking you to pause, yield, and consciously choose His direction instead of simply following your natural reaction?

Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In Mosiah 3:7, King Benjamin describes a Savior who would suffer temptation, physical pain, hunger, thirst, and fatigue.

Kevin shares why the simple word “thirst” has stayed with him since hearing Elder Jeffrey R. Holland speak while Kevin was a missionary in the MTC. Until that moment, he had sort of understood Christ’s suffering—but had never really pictured Jesus simply being hungry, tired, or thirsty.

That thought opens several questions:

What was temptation actually like for Jesus?

Could temptation have carried an unusual weight because Christ could never give in and still accomplish His mission?

At the same time, could His extraordinary relationship with the Father have given Him extraordinary strength?

Kevin and Justin also explore fatigue—physical, emotional, and spiritual—and what it means that Christ Himself experienced exhaustion.

Justin shares his experience using fasting as a way to seek greater closeness with God, which leads to a conversation about dependence, humility, and spiritual connection.

Finally, Kevin shares a very personal way he sometimes imagines the Atonement—not as doctrine, but as a question:

What if Christ’s suffering for each of us was even more individual than we understand?

Maybe we can’t comprehend everything Jesus experienced.

But perhaps Mosiah 3:7 can help us see Him a little more clearly—not only as the resurrected Lord, but as the Savior who walked through mortality before us.

Two Dudes Pondering the Universe, One Verse at a Time.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

— Alma 37:37

What caught our attention this week was one word:

Counsel.

Alma could have said to pray to the Lord. Instead, he tells Helaman to counsel with Him.

Is there a difference?

That question takes Kevin and Justin into a conversation about what it might look like to involve Heavenly Father in more than our formal prayers—to talk with Him while working through a problem, wondering about a decision, worrying about our families, or simply moving through an ordinary day.

And then Alma says something else interesting:

“When thou liest down at night, lie down unto the Lord…”

Why does scripture specifically talk about sleep?

Could part of lying down unto the Lord be learning to lay down some of the things we've been carrying?

Justin has one of those classic Ponderverse moments where a thought seems to arrive while he's saying it out loud, leading into a conversation about repentance, recurring mistakes, forgiveness, and what we carry with us to bed.

Then comes the morning:

“When thou risest in the morning let thy heart be full of thanks unto God.”

Kevin shares one of the simplest gratitude practices he's ever used:

First foot on the floor:

Thank.

Second foot:

You.

Before the phone.

Before email.

Before the news.

Before everything demanding our attention gets a vote.

Thank you.

Along the way, we somehow also end up talking about Costco, a refrigerator that definitely wasn't fitting inside Kevin's Tesla, Justin's pickup truck, and whether being “directed for good” sometimes looks a lot more ordinary than we expect.

By the end, Alma 37:37 starts to feel like more than a verse about prayer.

Maybe it's a rhythm for living:

Counsel with God.

Bring Him into all of it.

Lay the day down with Him.

Wake up thankful.

Go do some good.

Then do it again tomorrow.

We're not claiming that's everything this verse means.

We're just wondering what happens when we sit with it long enough to notice what's there.

One verse. Two dudes. A conversation.

Two Dudes Pondering the Universe, One Verse at a Time.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In this episode, Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright ponder what it means to build on “the rock of our Redeemer.”

They explore:

• Why Helaman says when the storms come—not if
• What “shafts in the whirlwind” might teach us about false or temporary shelter
• The difference between being redeemed and having a living Redeemer
• Why shame may cause us to speak to ourselves in ways Christ never would
• The contrast between temporary wind and hail and the permanence of a rock
• How joy and adversity can exist at the same time
• Why we sometimes refuse the very help Christ is offering us
• What it could look like to actually ask the Savior to carry our burdens

The goal isn’t to finish the verse or arrive at one definitive interpretation.

It’s simply to notice what happens when we slow down long enough to ponder.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

It’s one of the most quoted verses in the Book of Mormon. Maybe because it feels so simple.

Go.

Do.

Trust God.

But the longer Kevin and Justin sit with 1 Nephi 3:7, the more questions start showing up.

What’s the difference between going and doing?

Why does Nephi seem so certain God will prepare a way before he knows what that way will be?

What if commandments aren’t merely rules handed down from above, but invitations from a loving Heavenly Father who knows where certain choices can lead?

And what happens when we try to follow God and things still don’t work out the way we expected?

This conversation wanders through obedience, spiritual promptings, failure, trust, church attendance, parenting, and the possibility that sometimes God is doing something larger than we can see in the moment.

No definitive answers. Just two friends trying to notice a little more than they did before.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Before Kevin and Justin start pondering individual verses, they wanted to explain why this podcast exists in the first place.

Justin shares his personal journey from walking away from Church activity as a teenager to, years later, feeling prompted to return to the scriptures, prepare for the temple, and deepen his relationship with God. He also shares the prompting he couldn't quite shake: start a podcast—and eventually, ask Kevin to do it with him.

Kevin shares pieces of his own faith journey and why he has always loved approaching scripture a little differently. Rather than racing through chapters or trying to cover everything, he loves finding one verse—or sometimes one phrase—and sitting with it long enough to see what it might reveal.

That became the idea behind The Ponderverse.

This isn't a Come, Follow Me podcast. Kevin and Justin aren't scripture scholars, theologians, or historians. They're two friends trying to follow Jesus Christ, asking honest questions, sharing personal experiences, and seeing what happens when they slow down and really ponder a single verse.

Some conversations may lead to faith. Others may lead to family, marriage, parenting, business, doubt, Church history, failure, revelation, or questions they can't completely answer.

That's okay.

The point isn't to have every answer.

The point is to keep seeking.

One verse. Two dudes. A conversation.

Welcome to The Ponderverse.

The Ponderverse
Two Dudes Pondering the Universe, One Verse at a Time.

—

Pull up a chair and join us each week as we explore the universe hidden inside a single verse of scripture.

Visit ponderversepodcast.com to learn more about the show, explore past episodes, and continue the conversation.

The Ponderverse
Two dudes pondering the universe, one verse at a time.

The Ponderverse is hosted by Kevin Clayson and Justin Wright. This podcast is independently produced and is not an official publication of or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.