Here are the key takeaways:

Defining Embedded Payments: Tom clarifies the often-confusing terminology around "banking as a service," "embedded payments," and "embedded finance." He breaks it down into three segments: embedded payments (core payment capabilities placed at the point of need), embedded banking (adding deposits and fund storage), and embedded finance (adding credit or working capital). The industry's lack of consistent definitions has made it difficult for banks, fintechs, and regulators to have productive conversations about these different business models.

The Embedded Banking Evolution: The embedded space has evolved significantly from simply providing access to card schemes like Visa and MasterCard to file-based software integrations to today's API-driven platforms. What makes this moment particularly interesting is the convergence of stablecoins, new legislation like the GENIUS Act, and the emergence of new payment corridors. Tom emphasizes that it's not just about technology—institutions also need to bring risk management and regulatory oversight capabilities that come from decades of experience.

Building Different Culture Within Traditional Banks: One of Tom's key insights is around organizational design. Banks entering the embedded payments space face a branding paradox: how do you signal that you operate differently from traditional banking while maintaining institutional credibility? Tom describes building a team with a deliberately different culture—casual dress, different interaction styles—to show fintech clients this isn't a conventional banking relationship. The challenge is being different enough to win fintech clients without losing the trust signal that comes from being part of an established institution.

The Technology Stack and M&A Strategy: Tom discusses the advantage of owning a proprietary core banking platform rather than licensing one—it creates optionality to modify and extend capabilities in ways other banks cannot. He also explains how Fifth Third's acquisition of Rise Money allowed them to repurpose a consumer banking-as-a-service platform for commercial payment use cases, creating a "one plus one equals three" effect by combining legacy infrastructure with modern technology.

Organizational Design Choices: Tom reveals that about 95% of the Newline team is ring-fenced and dedicated exclusively to fintech clients, with cross-functional capabilities spanning go-to-market, engineering, product, and client success. However, he notes that some functions—like legal—don't make sense to fully separate because it limits career progression. Instead, they secure dedicated capacity within enterprise functions. He also describes a dual-track engineering model where dedicated engineers work alongside enterprise peers who help navigate internal governance and infrastructure.

Prerequisites for Success: Two critical factors enabled Newline's success: executive conviction from the CEO level that embedded banking is where the market is heading, and strategic investment that extends beyond just the embedded unit itself to supporting functions like legal, compliance, and risk. Tom emphasizes that execution discipline—hitting committed dates and milestones consistently—gives the market confidence, which matters when fintech clients are presenting sponsor bank choices to their boards and investors.

The Regulatory Clarity Paradox: Tom articulates a tension that many in the industry feel: while the U.S. financial services market is "dynamic by design, which is wonderful," institutions would benefit from short-term clarity (6-9 months out) on where regulations around stablecoins, industrial loan charters, and skinny payment accounts are heading. Without clarity, institutions must hedge across multiple scenarios rather than making focused bets.

Stablecoins as Potential Disruptor: Tom is "optimistically bullish" on stablecoins as potential "leapfrog technology" that could challenge the handful of mega-banks that currently control global payments infrastructure through correspondent banking networks. He sees stablecoins as a way to level the playing field for multi-regional banks, allowing them to serve clients internationally without navigating the traditional oligopoly. The open question is whether the right regulatory, risk, and oversight infrastructure will evolve quickly enough to let stablecoin growth scale safely.

The B2B AI Opportunity: While consumer agentic commerce (AI shopping agents) gets most of the headlines, Tom argues the real near-term opportunity is in B2B back-office automation. Fortune 500 companies employ thousands of people in accounts payable and receivable departments where AI could automate manual processes like invoice matching, payment approvals, and reconciliations. This represents "the shortest path to revenue" for AI-driven payment solutions, and institutions need to build the infrastructure that allows AI agents programmatic access to payment rails.

The Future is Agentic, Real-Time, and Global: Tom anchors his product strategy on three beliefs about where the industry is heading: more agentic than not, more real-time than not, and more global than not. He argues that the next generation of high-growth fintechs will ask, "Can you help me operate globally in real time?" Rather than incrementally improving legacy infrastructure, institutions need to build toolkits that are truly "borderless, real-time, and frictionless."

The Enterprise Payments Shift: Tom observes a fundamental shift in how banks approach enterprise payments. Historically, banks led with commercial lending and payments were a nice-to-have to capture full share of wallet. Now, payments technology is becoming the primary hook because companies are making bank decisions based on "what technology can you offer to automate my payment operations?" rather than lending capacity alone. The buyer of a payment solution is different from the buyer of a working capital solution, and banks are reorganizing around this reality.

The North Star Metric: When asked what single metric matters most over a five-year horizon, Tom's answer is monthly processing volume in the trillions. This metric reflects scale, client trust, execution consistency, and whether the platform is becoming essential infrastructure. For a multi-regional bank to target trillion-dollar monthly processing volumes represents a fundamental shift from traditional regional banking scale to competing with global payment infrastructure providers.

The conversation highlights both the immense opportunity and significant organizational challenges in building embedded banking infrastructure within traditional financial institutions, and offers a roadmap for how legacy players can compete in an increasingly fintech-driven world.

First-party fraud = authenticated, fully KYC’d customers who are who they say they are… but “not doing nice things” (abuse, friendly fraud, promo gaming).

Shanthi Shanmugam

After 2021–2022, banks and deposit-heavy institutions saw a double-digit increase in fraud losses tied to their owncustomers rather than external attackers.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Traditional fraud stacks focus on onboarding and transaction gating; disputes and first-party fraud sit in an operational backwater with little data science or investment.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Shanthi’s Path to the Problem (Robinhood, Chime, and Disputes)

Shanthi spent six years at Robinhood working on everything but fraud (crypto launches, redesigns, support) until GameStop-era volumes forced her into the world of disputes.

Shanthi Shanmugam

She and her co-founder (ex-Chime) both realized a bad dispute experience was one of the top reasons a customer stopped using them as a primary financial relationship.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Institutions spend heavily to acquire customers at the front door and quietly lose them out the back door when disputes feel slow, opaque, or unfair.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Why Disputes Are So Broken Today

Many FIs outsource disputes to processors at $20–$40 per case; decisions take up to 90 days and often end with clawbacks that anger customers.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Regulation (e.g., 10 business days to provisionally credit) means banks often must take customers at face value even if follow-up questions go unanswered—driving poor loss performance.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Disputes teams historically sit in operations, not risk; they lack analytics, tooling, and esteem versus the “hyper sophisticated” fraud teams.

Shanthi Shanmugam

The Human Side: TikTok Guides, Entitlement, and “Universal Refund Centers”

Shanthi keeps a folder of TikToks, YouTube videos, and Reddit threads showing people teaching each other how to get “free money” via disputes.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Post-COVID economic stress plus a cultural shift (“it’s a big bank, they can afford it”) is normalizing first-party fraud in some segments.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Anecdotes like “Frank” (disputing a premium-economy seat, tepid Airbnb pool, and dry burgers after eating them) illustrate how banks are effectively being used as universal refund centers.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Casap’s Approach: Turn Disputes into a Trust & Retention Engine

Casap starts at the front of the process: guiding frontline agents to ask expert-level questions so they can distinguish green-flag truth-tellers from red-flag abusers.

Shanthi Shanmugam

This allows instant resolution for honest customers and higher scrutiny for likely fraudsters, balancing CX and fraud loss instead of forcing a tradeoff.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Results: clients see ~51% reduction in fraud losses in the first six months and can reduce or eliminate outsourced dispute processing—often “paying for Casap” in the first month.

Shanthi Shanmugam

One long-time disputes employee described Casap as life-changing—reducing stress so much she literally added saved therapy sessions into Casap’s ROI math.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Consortium Data and a “Casap Score”

Shanthi sees consortium data as essential: fraudsters share tactics, so institutions need a safe, anonymized way to share patterns.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Vision: a Casap-style trustworthiness score, analogous to FICO, that helps merchants and issuers decide when to add friction (e.g., step-up verification) rather than fully deny service.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Importantly, the score should drive which actions to limit (e.g., easy refunds on certain MCCs) rather than blanket account denials.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Agentic Payments, Liability, and AI as Equalizer

They explore future “agentic payments” use cases (e.g., an AI wedding planner overspending on the wrong things) and how liability might be allocated between customer, bank, and AI provider.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Shanthi is optimistic the industry can handle it with clear remits and parameters—potentially even “zero liability” offerings within defined agent budgets.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Vivek frames AI as a cost-cutting and CX-boosting equalizer for non-top-3 banks that cannot outspend megabanks on acquisition but can win on experience and efficiency.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Sales Momentum and Why FIs Are Moving Now

Casap has broken typical “slow FI sales” rules because it hits two urgent priorities: better CX for primary relationships and meaningful expense and fraud-loss reduction.

Shanthi Shanmugam

Banks, now laser-focused on PE multiples and cost ratios, are actively looking for software that removes expense and improves loss performance without massive core-system overhauls.

Agentic commerce gets real: Transaction volumes from AI agents move from a trickle to “meaningful,” as consumers progress from researching via AI to completing purchases on platforms like ChatGPT connected to Shopify, Etsy, and large retailers.

Retailers limit scraping: Many top U.S. retailers will restrict broad, agentic scraping of their sites and instead offer structured feeds to AI platforms, trying to regain leverage and shape how their products are surfaced.

2026 Predictions: Payments, Stablecoins, and B2B Automation

Agentic payments start in B2B: The first real impact of agentic payments will be in B2B flows—automating high-friction workflows, recurring payments, and reconciliation rather than consumer card swipes.

Stablecoins become native to fintech & treasury stacks: Stablecoin-based payments get deeply integrated into fintech and treasury applications, moving from “manual” usage to embedded flows as demand becomes more institutional and mainstream.

Big banks join the stablecoin party: A key open question—and focus of the prediction—is how much large banks and traditional institutions begin to integrate stablecoins for their commercial and corporate clients.

2026 Predictions: Banking, Wealth & Tokenized Assets

Tokenized securities go “hot”: Expect a wave of tokenized issuance across public equities, ETFs, private credit, and alternatives, plus a lot of startup funding chasing tokenization infrastructure.

Alternatives become more accessible: Access to alternatives—pre-IPO equity, private credit, real estate, private funds—will expand, driven in part by concerns over AI-concentrated public markets and the need for diversification, even for smaller accredited investors.

2026 Predictions: AI “Hires” Inside Banks & Insurers

Banks “hire” AI agents: Smaller financial institutions will effectively put AI agents on payroll, using them to augment underwriting, regulatory, and compliance workflows. Crucially, the budgets will often come from headcount/payroll rather than traditional IT spend.

AI catalyzes core modernization in insurance: Carriers will use specialized AI vendors to re-platform historically untouchable core functions (underwriting, policy servicing, claims intake). The team expects a meaningful share of top carriers to engage in real replatforming with AI-native vendors.

Specialized over generic: The winning AI platforms will be highly specialized to banking and insurance workflows—not generic AI or horizontal SaaS—leading to very “sticky” agent relationships.

2026 Predictions: Next-Gen ERP & Capital Markets

Next-gen ERPs threaten NetSuite: For startups, new ERP players will become the default over legacy options. Faster implementations, better AI tooling, and higher success rates will make “Have you evaluated any of the next-gen ERPs?” a standard board question.

Early enterprise conversions: Some non-startup enterprises will begin switching from legacy ERPs, as ERP is often the last truly legacy piece in otherwise modern stacks.

IPOs and exits reopen: The partnership expects IPO and M&A markets to remain open and to accelerate—potentially surpassing the pre-pandemic five-year IPO high (~$50B). A large backlog of IPO candidates and pent-up M&A demand sets the stage for a busy 2026.

• Brandon’s founder journey: from building software in college to multiple exits and now leading Forward
• The pain points of legacy acquiring and why funds-held and outdated tech nearly cost him a business
• The three 20-year “eras” of payments and why embedded software is just getting started
• Why most vertical SaaS companies vastly under-monetize payments, and how to move from ~20% attach to 50–70%
• How Forward pairs modern infrastructure with hands-on program design instead of a DIY “here are the APIs” approach
• Forward’s growth (800%+ this year) and what makes their integration experience so fast for CTOs
• A nuanced take on AI: where it’s already transforming risk, operations, and interchange optimization
• Why Brandon is skeptical that true agentic commerce (autonomous agents completing purchases) will reach scale soon
• The vision for continuous, 365-day settlement without leaning on expensive credit or warehouse lines
• Leadership, family, and sports: what Brandon learned from his Military-officer dad, college basketball, and parenting four kids
• Real-world founder advice on surviving outages, hard days, and the long grind of company building

We dig into what that means for wires, RTP, and bank UX; why real-time ledgering matters more than real-time messaging; and where clearing houses still fit. Tom lays out a pragmatic adoption path: start with one internal flow, define standards before chasing consortia, and dogfood a wallet/registry that tracks ownership across accounts. We also cover risk, compliance, and how startups can serve as the bridge layer between cores and digital rails.

If you run payments, treasury, or product at a bank or fintech, this episode is your field guide—complete with quick wins, common pitfalls, and how to know you’re actually ready to ship.

In this episode of Commerce Conversations, Dan Rosen is joined by two experts on the frontlines of fintech law: Lindsey Haswell, Chief Legal Officer at MoonPay and board member for BlackRock’s crypto ETFs, and Mitzi Chang, co-chair of the blockchain and fintech practices at Goodwin Procter.

Together, they break down:

Why 2024’s regulatory clarity marks a turning point for stablecoins

How legislation like the Genius Act could unlock a wave of adoption—and M&A

What makes USDC, USDT, and PYUSD different under the hood

Why the merchant side (not consumers) may drive the next phase of stablecoin use

How global markets (Europe, LATAM, APAC) are approaching stablecoin legislation

The legal questions surrounding yield-bearing tokens

And what happens when crypto infrastructure meets generative AI

Whether you’re a founder, fintech exec, lawyer, or investor—this episode offers a clear-eyed look at where stablecoins are headed and what it means for the broader financial stack.

Marco takes us behind the scenes of building payments products at Uber and Brex, including the complexities of launching a co-branded card and navigating global regulatory environments. He explains how Bridge, now part of Stripe, enables companies to send and receive value on-chain through stablecoins—without requiring a crypto-native customer experience.

They dive into why adoption is accelerating now, where stablecoins have already seen traction in the Global South, and why the real breakthrough is happening behind the scenes in treasury management, cross-border disbursements, and on-chain loyalty. Whether you’re a fintech founder or enterprise operator, Marco’s clear-eyed view of the evolving payments stack offers a blueprint for what’s coming next.

Kirill recounts his early curiosity around crypto, sparked by receiving his first Bitcoin over a decade ago (and subsequently losing it), and how that experience led him to roles at crypto startups like Bread Wallet. After seeing firsthand the limitations of traditional financial infrastructure during a stint in banking, he became convinced that blockchain could offer a better alternative.

The episode dives into the founding story of Conduit, which started as a DeFi middleware layer and later pivoted to focus on solving a major pain point: making stablecoins useful in real-world, cross-border payments. Kirill reflects on the hard lessons learned through product pivots, layoffs, and the search for product-market fit—highlighting how intellectual honesty and staying lean helped the team survive.

Kirill also explores trends in the stablecoin ecosystem, from the role of traditional financial institutions to Circle’s recent moves and the broader regulatory landscape. He offers thoughtful predictions on how banks, payment processors, and central banks might interact with stablecoin rails in the years ahead.

The conversation closes with Kirill’s reflections on leadership, the underrated value of focus, and why founders need to be brutally honest with themselves—especially when things seem like they’re working, but aren’t.

The partners discuss anticipated regulatory shifts under new leadership, particularly in FinTech, noting potential impacts on banking innovation and sponsor-banking dynamics. They also predict a wave of successful FinTech IPOs, led by companies with strong revenue growth, and forecast 2025 as a banner year for venture funding, driven by increased liquidity and optimism in public markets.

In technology, AI takes center stage, with predictions about its disruptive impact on search engines and its potential to transform industries like insurance. They foresee AI-driven tools reducing integration costs for insurance carriers, accelerating innovation and venture interest in the sector. Additionally, they predict advancements in digital wallets and biometric payments, enabling consumers to leave physical wallets behind.

Closing with reflections on the confluence of regulatory, technological, and market shifts, the episode emphasizes the transformative potential of 2025. The team encourages listeners to engage with Commerce Ventures on their platforms for ongoing insights.

Johnny recounts pivotal moments, including the development of groundbreaking fraud detection algorithms in 2016 that outperformed industry benchmarks, cementing Socure’s position as a market leader. He also highlights challenges, such as B2B enterprise sales, and the need for grit in overcoming repeated rejections.

The conversation also explores the company’s evolution from being a potential acquisition target to becoming a consolidator, with strategic acquisitions like Berbix and Effective enhancing their capabilities. He emphasizes the transformative potential of AI, which permeates all aspects of Socure’s operations, from product development to internal processes.

Reflecting on entrepreneurship, Johnny advises aspiring founders to enjoy the journey, choose problems they are passionate about, and surround themselves with complementary teams. He also discusses the importance of adaptability, customer-centricity, and leveraging partnerships like Commerce Ventures to scale effectively. The episode closes with a forward-looking perspective on Socure’s role in the consolidation of the identity verification space and Johnny’s continued enthusiasm for tackling large-scale challenges.

1. Introduction

• Host Julie Verhage Greenberg introduces the Commerce Conversations podcast and the episode’s focus: a conversation between Dan Rosen and Aaron Schum, CEO of Vestwell, discussing Aaron's journey, entrepreneurship, and the U.S. retirement crisis.

2. Aaron’s Background and Early Influences

• Aaron shares his upbringing in a blue-collar family in Chicago, where his father’s interest in the stock market sparked Aaron’s own passion for finance.
• Despite not seeing himself as an entrepreneur early on, Aaron recalls his early interests in problem-solving and teamwork, which set the foundation for his future in financial services.

3. Journey to Entrepreneurship

• After an initial career at Northern Trust, Aaron moved to New York, pivoting toward fintech. He gained experience as a product manager in CheckFree, which later influenced his approach to financial technology.
• Aaron describes his first entrepreneurial venture, starting FolioDynamix, and the eventual acquisition by Envestnet, detailing the challenges and emotions around selling his first startup.

4. Founding Vestwell

• Post-FolioDynamix, Aaron quickly transitioned into founding Vestwell to tackle the retirement crisis. He felt a strong conviction about Vestwell’s mission and was motivated to address the issue of savings in America.
• Aaron highlights the challenges he faced building the company’s infrastructure from scratch and explains how the experience helped him refine his approach to problem-solving in a startup environment.

5. Challenges and Perseverance

• Aaron recounts the difficulties Vestwell encountered, particularly raising funds during COVID-19 and convincing investors of the company’s value in an industry where understanding core infrastructure is complex.
• He also reflects on a challenging Series C funding round, compounded by personal struggles, but explains how the experience underscored the importance of patience and adaptability.

6. Engagement with Legislation

• Aaron talks about working with legislators on Capitol Hill to advocate for retirement reform and drive awareness of the retirement crisis. He underscores the bipartisan support and dedication he observed, appreciating the intelligence and commitment of many in the political sphere.
• He mentions bringing industry leaders together to discuss solutions and advocate for policy changes that benefit the public.

7. Views on Fintech and Industry Trends

• Aaron discusses the importance of core infrastructure in fintech, noting his belief that many recent innovations are more sustainable as features than standalone businesses.
• He comments on the wave of AI-driven ideas and solutions, highlighting the need for these innovations to address real problems meaningfully.

8. Mentorship and Influences

• Aaron shares his admiration for various business leaders, such as Jamie Dimon and Bill Crager, and mentors who influenced his perspective on leadership, strategic thinking, and problem-solving.

9. Advice for New Entrepreneurs

• Aaron advises new founders to focus on solving real-world problems, remain humble, and embrace the inevitable challenges and learning curve that come with building a startup.
• He encourages founders to be open to feedback and leverage the knowledge of others, stressing the importance of purpose-driven work.

Here are the key takeaways:

Background and Entrepreneurship: Kirti grew up in a blue-collar environment and was inspired by her father's entrepreneurial journey. Her early interest in building and creating led her to start her own ventures. At Wharton, she stood out by wanting to start a business while others aimed for investment banking.

Zeal's Journey: Kirti initially started a gig company with her co-founder Pranav, which eventually evolved into Zeal after they realized a gap in payroll services for W2 labor. They identified that existing tools like Stripe weren't equipped to handle complex payroll needs like taxes and overtime calculations.

Challenges and Innovations in Payroll: Zeal found that payroll for hourly and gig workers is complex because their hours, pay rates, and shifts vary constantly. Kirti highlighted that traditional payroll systems like ADP were not designed to handle the intricacies of modern, flexible workforces. Zeal's solution is to automate time capture and payroll processing, which has allowed companies to pay their workers more efficiently, even daily if needed.

The Future of Payroll: Kirti envisions a future where large employers will have branded, fully integrated payroll systems that allow employees to manage their finances seamlessly within the company’s ecosystem. She believes that payroll will become increasingly digitized and personalized, with a focus on faster payments, automated compliance, and greater integration with financial services.

Lessons Learned: Kirti emphasized the importance of focusing on essential products that customers can't live without, especially in volatile markets. For her, payroll is a “painkiller” product that businesses rely on regardless of the economic climate. She also advised founders to trust their instincts and ensure their products are solving real, critical pain points.

Advice for Entrepreneurs: Kirti's advice to aspiring founders is to pursue work that feels meaningful and impactful, rather than work that is driven by external accolades. She emphasized the satisfaction of building something real and valuable.

In the rapid-fire round, Kirti shared her admiration for entrepreneurs like David Barrett of Expensify and Rihanna for their unique approaches to business growth. She also hinted at a passion for public policy, which she might pursue if not running Zeal.

The conversation wraps with a reflection on the evolving role of vertical SaaS companies and how Zeal is helping businesses manage payroll more efficiently with their innovative infrastructure solutions.

• Early Life: Melissa was born and raised outside Minneapolis, Minnesota, with a strong family influence from her mother, a teacher and mathematician, and her father, a Vietnam vet and entrepreneur in tech and education.
• Career Path: Started in financial services due to her interest in combining tech and numbers. Joined Citi, eventually moving to Fifth Third Bank.

Career Highlights and Challenges

• Citi: Melissa shared highs, such as working with smart colleagues and leading tech initiatives like being the first to launch a banking app on the Apple Watch. Lows included internal factions and missed opportunities for better collaboration.
• Fifth Third Bank: Moved to Fifth Third for new challenges, influenced by the company’s focus on customer service and transformation, and inspired by leaders like Jane Fraser, Tim Spence and Greg Carmichael.

Digital and Personal Banking

• Current State: Discussed the gap between the promise of digital banking and its current state. Highlighted the importance of personal relationships alongside digital advancements.
• Future Vision: Envisions a seamless, intuitive banking experience where needs are anticipated and addressed without complex forms, leveraging AI and open banking principles.

Branch Strategy and Human Connection

• Branches: Despite digital advancements, branches remain important for human connection and are seen as beacons of positivity and customer service.
• Blending Physical and Digital: Emphasized the importance of integrating digital tools to enhance personal interactions and ensure seamless service.

Gender Diversity and Leadership

• Progress and Challenges: Noted improvements in gender diversity but acknowledged ongoing challenges, particularly at senior levels.
• Advice for Women: Encouraged self-advocacy and building supportive networks. Stressed the importance of forming inclusive and supportive professional communities.

Conclusion

• Final Thoughts: Melissa reflected on the importance of bringing people along and setting the pace for others in their careers.

The interview highlighted Melissa's journey, insights on the evolution of banking, and the importance of combining digital innovation with personal relationships.

• Sharda's upbringing was deeply influenced by her parents' journey from India to the United States and their subsequent global relocations. This nomadic lifestyle instilled in her a sense of global citizenship and adaptability. She learned the importance of creativity, risk-taking, and dreaming big from her family's experiences, which have significantly shaped her professional journey.

Career Risks and Pivots:

• Sharda's career is marked by several significant risks and pivots. After law school, she transitioned into a business development role at Silicon Valley Bank, which set the stage for her future in tech and finance. Later, she moved from Wells Fargo to PayPal and eventually to Square, where she embraced roles that pushed her boundaries and leveraged her passion for technology and innovation.

Importance of Mission and Culture:

• Sharda emphasizes the importance of aligning with a company's mission, vision, and culture. She advises that believing in the product and leadership is crucial for meaningful work. She also highlights the value of being true to oneself and recognizing when a company's culture and goals do not resonate with personal values, which can significantly impact job satisfaction and effectiveness.

Future of Sponsor Bank and FinTech Relationships:

• Banking as a Service (BaaS): The discussion centered on the evolving role of BaaS, especially in light of a major player's public bankruptcy. The consensus was that future models should focus on collaboration between fintechs and sponsor banks, jointly handling regulatory compliance, product development, and financial monitoring. This might diminish the traditional role of BaaS platforms.
• Compliance: Compliance has become a fundamental focus for all parties involved, indicating a more complex and resource-intensive future for launching financial programs.

Open Banking:

• Regulatory Changes: The CFPB’s proposed rule change (1033) aims to expand data access in the U.S., potentially transforming financial services by making data more freely available and real-time.
• Comparative Insights: Differences between the U.S. and Europe were highlighted, with Europe being more payments-focused and regulatory-driven in its open banking initiatives.
• Implications: Easier switching between financial accounts could lead to significant changes in banking relationships and fintech dynamics in the U.S.

Generative AI in Financial Services and Retail:

• Adoption: Large enterprises are rapidly adopting generative AI, deploying it across various applications for both employees and customers.
• Compliance and Privacy: These remain top priorities, with a focus on ensuring regulatory compliance and customer privacy.
• Capacity Expansion: Generative AI can enhance capacity by allowing employees to handle larger workloads or providing AI-driven support tools.
• Enterprise Advantage: Large enterprises might have an edge due to their access to vast amounts of data and resources, though startups will still play a crucial role in specific use cases.

Mergers and Acquisitions (M&A):

• Market Dynamics: The gap between buyer and seller valuations, especially for unicorns, is a challenge. However, mid-market M&A might see faster activity.
• Integration of Venture and M&A: There is a trend towards integrating venture investments, strategic partnerships, and M&A efforts for better relationship-building and understanding.
• Regulatory Environment: Companies are now more willing to pursue deals they believe are beneficial for consumers, even if there’s a risk of regulatory blockage.

Early-Stage Venture Trends:

• Founder Profiles: There is a return to stronger, more technical founders.
• Valuations and Capital: Despite market fluctuations, capital supply remains strong, driven by LP allocations.
• Geographical Considerations: The debate continues on the optimal locations for building companies, with a strong case for San Francisco, though other ecosystems also offer valuable resources.

Public Markets and IPOs:

• IPO Market: The IPO market is open but not as robust as before. Companies need to balance growth and profitability to appeal to public market investors.
• Valuation Normalization: The valuation gap between public and private markets has normalized, affecting IPO decisions.

Final Thoughts:

The episode encapsulated the diverse and complex issues discussed at the Commerce Ventures summit, offering insights into the future of fintech, open banking, AI adoption, M&A strategies, early-stage ventures, and public market trends. Each topic reflected the dynamic changes and challenges within the financial and retail tech sectors.

Madeline transitioned from a travel industry startup to founding PurpleDot, driven by the goal of solving the unsold inventory problem in retail e-commerce. Inspired by the efficient inventory management in the travel industry, she aimed to apply similar principles to e-commerce. PurpleDot developed a pre-order system, allowing brands to sell inventory before it arrives at the warehouse, thus addressing the inflexibility of traditional e-commerce systems where 25% of products are never sold.

Throughout the interview, Madeline emphasized the importance of being customer-focused and adapting based on feedback. Initially exploring dynamic pricing, she and her team pivoted to pre-order solutions in response to customer needs. She also highlighted the significance of building a strong, cohesive team and creating an environment where hard work is enjoyable and aligned with team values.

She acknowledged the inevitability of mistakes in entrepreneurship and stressed the necessity of learning from them, advising new entrepreneurs not to fear failure or embarrassment but to maintain confidence and persistence in their journey. Looking forward, she suggested that future e-commerce innovation will focus on pre-warehouse activities, such as supply chain and inventory management. Additionally, she mentioned the potential in scarcity marketing and the creator economy, particularly appealing to Gen Z.

However, our conversation also highlights the challenges and limitations encountered in scaling BaaS solutions. BaaS, while innovative, struggled with issues of customization and scalability. The inherent complexity of financial services meant that BaaS solutions often required significant customization to meet the specific needs of different clients, contradicting the initial hope for a one-size-fits-all solution. This customization led to operational inefficiencies and made it difficult for BaaS providers to achieve the scale necessary for significant growth or to attract substantial investment interest. The dialogue further explores the role of human intervention in BaaS, noting that despite the automation potential, substantial human management remained necessary, complicating the scalability and reducing the cost-effectiveness of BaaS offerings.

We also address the strategic responses of traditional banks to the rise of BaaS. Observing the traction BaaS was gaining with FinTechs, banks began to integrate similar technologies to offer direct partnerships with FinTechs, thereby bypassing BaaS providers. This shift not only heightened competition but also pressured BaaS companies to innovate beyond their initial service models. The banks’ move to adopt BaaS-like capabilities internally suggested a diminishing intermediary role for standalone BaaS platforms, potentially relegating them to niche roles within the financial ecosystem. This evolution reflects a broader industry trend where initial technological disruptions are gradually absorbed and integrated by established financial entities, challenging the long-term viability of independent BaaS providers.

The conversation delves into the unique financial challenges faced by the caring class—comprising educators, healthcare workers, and non-profit employees, among others—who prioritize community impact over financial gain. Pancoast discusses how traditional financial systems, focused on net worth maximization, fail to meet the needs of this demographic. The Beans addresses this gap by providing tailored financial solutions and leveraging data to offer personalized financial management tools, aiming to alleviate financial stress and improve quality of life for these individuals.

Additionally, Pancoast reflects on the hurdles of being a female founder in the fintech space, a traditionally male-dominated industry. Despite these challenges, she emphasizes the importance of resilience, networking, and leveraging unique insights to carve out a niche in the market. The discussion also touches on the broader fintech landscape, the need for innovation in personal financial management, and the significance of redefining financial literacy to better serve modern needs. Pancoast’s journey underscores the role of determination and innovation in addressing underserved markets and making a meaningful impact.

Transitioning from childhood hobbies to professional pursuits, Sean's journey took him through the realms of academia and early entrepreneurship. His collegiate years were marked by a burgeoning interest in economics, spurred by his readings of Milton Friedman and other economic theorists. This intellectual curiosity seamlessly blended with his tech skills, leading him to explore the intersection of technology and finance. Post-college, Sean ventured into the payments industry, where his experiences with Fee Fighters—a platform aimed at optimizing payment processing for businesses—highlighted the potential for technology to streamline and improve financial services. This venture not only showcased Sean's knack for identifying and addressing inefficiencies in established systems but also solidified his resolve to innovate within the fintech space.

The genesis of Kin was a direct response to the challenges and opportunities he observed in the homeowners insurance market. Kin's foundation was built on Sean's expertise in tech and finance, targeting a sector ripe for innovation. The company distinguished itself by leveraging technology to disintermediate traditional insurance distribution channels and utilizing data analytics for more accurate pricing and underwriting. Kin's focus on homeowners insurance, particularly in regions affected by climate change, demonstrated a strategic approach to addressing a real-world problem. The venture not only tapped into a significant market need but also aligned with broader societal shifts towards recognizing and adapting to the impacts of climate change.

Sean's narrative is a testament to the power of resilience, adaptability, and innovation in the entrepreneurial journey. From his early days tinkering with baseball cards to co-founding Kin, his path reflects a deep-seated passion for technology and a keen sense of opportunity in the fintech and insurance industries. Kin's success, amid the challenges of navigating a complex regulatory landscape and the uncertainties of startup growth, underscores the importance of vision and perseverance. As Kin continues to evolve, Sean's story serves as inspiration for aspiring entrepreneurs, highlighting the potential to effect meaningful change through technology-driven solutions.

Growing Up and Early Influences: 
Wade shares insights into his upbringing in Davenport, Iowa, and how being the third of four boys fueled his drive for entrepreneurship. His love for biking and computers started early in life, shaping his interests and hobbies. Wade's transition from a bike shop enthusiast to a tech professional is explored, highlighting his experiences with BMX and programming.

Entrepreneurial Spirit: 

Despite early interests, Wade initially aspired to work in a bike shop. However, his experiences there, coupled with his knack for technology, laid the foundation for his entrepreneurial journey. Wade's venture into FinTech stemmed from his experiences at Adobe and his desire to revolutionize traditional banking systems. He shares the inception of Moov and its focus on building robust, cloud-based infrastructure.

Embracing Open Source and Community: 

Wade emphasizes the importance of open-source contributions and community collaboration in Moov's development. He discusses the ethos behind Moov's brand and its commitment to empowering developers.

Challenges and Opportunities: 

Wade reflects on the challenges of rebuilding infrastructure from scratch and contrasts Moov's approach with traditional legacy systems. He highlights the potential for innovation in addressing underserved markets and redefining profitability. Wade shares admiration for non-traditional leaders like Rick Moliterno, emphasizing the importance of community and customer-centricity in business.

Pursuing Purpose: 

Wade concludes with insights for aspiring founders, urging them to stay true to their initial motivations amidst the rollercoaster of entrepreneurship.

Follow Wade on LinkedIn

• Rene grew up in a family of entrepreneurs.
• Shared a personal story about being born on a night when his mom was sorting punch cards for a payroll job for a defense contractor.
• Emphasized the importance of having a "dinner table MBA" by growing up around small businesses run by his family.

Career Journey:

• Worked at Pricewaterhouse as an accountant to learn the language of business.
• Worked for his parents' payroll company and later at Intuit, focusing on building great companies.
• Started the first company, PayCycle, which became one of the fastest-growing online payroll companies.
• Sold PayCycle to Intuit in 2009 and started Bill in 2006, which has been operating for 17 years.

Risk and Starting a Business:

• Discussed the risk associated with starting a business and highlighted the difference in risk levels compared to his parents and grandparents, who often started businesses with the money in their back pockets.

Market Timing and Early Challenges:

• Acknowledged being early in the market with Bill and discussed the challenges faced during the 2008 financial crisis.
• Emphasized the importance of being patient and decisive during challenging times.

Lessons Learned and Seminal Moments:

• Highlighted the value of learning from experiences, such as the moment when his father recognized the potential impact of the software he was developing.
• Discussed the importance of patience and impatience in entrepreneurship.

Impact and Motivation:

• Shared the impact of family, particularly his mom, in shaping his character and values.
• Discussed the imperative to do good, help others, and make a positive impact on SMBs.

Growth and Leadership:

• Discussed the challenges of growth and the need for leaders to adapt and evolve as the company scales.
• Emphasized the focus on the mission, vision, and serving customers rather than personal goals.

Public Company Journey:

• Clarified that the goal was never about becoming a public company CEO but serving SMBs and having a broader impact.
• Discussed the need to assess personal capabilities continually and focus on success rather than individual milestones.

Competitive Landscape and Global Perspective:

• Used the story of the Miracle Mile race to illustrate the importance of focusing on one's vision rather than competitors.
• Acknowledged awareness of international markets and competition but highlighted the necessity of staying true to the company's vision and goals.

Find Rene on Linkedin.

• Overview of the podcast focusing on Commerce Ventures' annual prediction season.
• Discussion on examining the outcomes of 2023 predictions and their implications for 2024.

Review of 2023 Predictions:

Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) Implosion:

• BNPL usage remains high, defying expectations of implosion.
• Resilience noted despite economic challenges.
• Acknowledgment of misjudgment on BNPL providers' performance.

Consumer Balance Sheet Resilience:

• Surprising resilience in consumer balance sheets.
• Delinquencies did not rise as anticipated.
• Challenger banks found ways to adapt to challenges.

Private Equity Roll-Up of D2C Retail Darlings:

• Lack of roll-up activity observed, challenges faced by some.
• Economic factors and unexpected rate changes influenced outcomes.

Crypto's Persistence:

• Predicted crypto persistence in 2023.
• Acknowledgment of a cold year for crypto.
• Recent uptick in Bitcoin's value impacting the prediction.

Mass Merchants vs. Luxury Performance:

• Luxury sector booms, mass merchants face headwinds.
• Economic environment affects both sectors, with some deviations from expectations.

Incumbents Acquiring Venture-Backed Payments Companies:

• Successful prediction with Visa's acquisition of Pismo.
• Expectations for more acquisitions in the future.

Skyrocketing Consumer Borrowing Impact:

• Mixed outcomes with parts of the prediction playing out.
• Opportunities in credit servicing and data space observed.

Venture Funding Bottoming Out:

• Acknowledgment of being off on the timing.
• Return of scrappy founders observed in the market.

Venture Funding Continues to Fall:

• Scrappy founder mentality due to funding challenges.
• Adaptation to scarcity of venture dollars.

Retailers Invest in Automation:

• Confirmation of retailers investing in automation.
• Emphasis on AI's role in shaping the future of retail.

Outlook for 2024 Predictions:

AI Impact on Retail P&L:

• Prediction of AI-driven OpEx reductions at major retailers.
• Anticipation of actual impact on P&L.

Consumer Adoption of AI:

• Optimistic prediction of a significant number of Americans using AI daily or weekly.
• Examples from platforms like TikTok influencing AI adoption.

M&A Surge in 2024:

• Anticipation of increased M&A activity in the first half of the year.
• Factors include scale, revenue generation, and potential market closures before elections.

Crypto Market Resurgence:

• Prediction of a crypto market run-up in 2024.
• Factors include legal actions, regulatory clarity, and market sentiment.

Bank Industry Dynamics:

• Expectation of a bank collapse or acquisition due to challenges in commercial real estate.
• Potential impacts on the broader financial services landscape.

Chime IPO and Retail Market Response:

• Prediction of Chime's IPO and subsequent market reactions.
• Expectation of retail market emulation of successful models like SheIn.

Challenger Banks IPO Filings:

• Anticipation of IPO filings by large challenger banks.
• Questions about business model viability and profitability.

Interest Rate Changes:

• Expected sequence of events leading to interest rate reduction.
• Impact on lending and capital requirements for banks.

• Rich Cloud leads payment innovation at Bank of America.
• Focus on evaluating new technologies and solutions.
• Assessment of new networks, checkout solutions, and step-function capabilities.
• Pro-stage gated process for evaluating and validating solutions.
• 75% of his time dedicated to consumer and small business solutions.
• 25% of the time with the GTS function, bringing Bank of America capabilities to large corporates.

Real-Time Payments Basics:

• Real-time payments involve instant settlement of funds between banks.
• Reduces risk and friction compared to existing frameworks like ACH.
• Credit transfers with an evaluation of account standing before sending.

Importance of Real-Time Payments:

• Speed of funds transfer is the essence of real-time payments.
• Enables the development of innovative solutions for consumers and corporates.

Consumer Transactions with Real-Time Payments:

• Immediate confirmations in consumer transactions.
• Improved bill pay experience with proof of fund availability.
• Introduction of "Request for payment" user experience.

Corporate Implications of Real-Time Payments:

• Significant opportunities for collections departments.
• Ensures timely payments with proof of fund availability.

Real-Time Payments Landscape:

• Two main networks for real-time payments in the United States: FedNow and the Clearing House.
• Similar to the existence of multiple networks for ACH and wires.
• Competition is expected to drive better innovation, cost, and terms, similar to Visa and MasterCard in the card payments space.

Fintech and Developer Impact:

• Successful FinTechs leverage tools and standards from networks to create innovative user experiences.
• Integration of standards like ISO 8583 and ISO 20022 into businesses and applications.
• Continuous innovation in payment flows, such as virtual cards for B2B payments.

Looking Forward:

• Real-time payments are considered transformative in the payment landscape.
• Predicted to be a major shift in payment experiences, comparable to the evolution from knuckle-buster credit card authorizations to modern payments.
• Global adoption of real-time payments in various markets, with the U.S. learning from international experiences.
• Emphasis on collaboration and partnerships to accelerate innovation and time to market.
• Acknowledgment that real-time payments will play a significant role in the majority of payment settlements globally.
• Recognition of the need for inspiration from markets ahead in real-time payments, fostering a collaborative and iterative approach to innovation.

Find Rich on Linkedin

• Born in Cameroon, moved to Paris at three.
• Studied in the United States, as student athlete in track and field.
• Achieved fifth place at French Junior Nationals in track and field.
• Represented Cameroon at the World Championships in 2003, faced injuries.
• Injured before the 2004 Olympics, ending his athletic career.

Transition to Technology:

• Met someone on a train working on procedural textures for After Effects and Photoshop.
• Joined Algorithmic as a business developer.
• Algorithmic acquired by Adobe in 2019.

Entrepreneurial Journey and Fintech Focus:

• Worked as an Entrepreneur in Residence (EIR) at Science Inc.
• Inspired by fintech trends, founded Lenny Credit in 2015 (micro-lending platform for students).
• Evolved into Grow Credit in 2018, offering a credit-building MasterCard for subscriptions and cell phone plans.

Culture and Leadership:

• Emphasized core tenets: high focus, high quality, high speed.
• Incorporated gratitude in weekly reports for positive momentum.
• Emphasized the importance of building a strong, positive culture.

Challenges and Lessons Learned:

• Challenges in sustaining culture during remote work.
• Consistency, positivity, and turning negatives into positives key to overcoming challenges.
• Importance of coaching up and leading by self-criticism.

Transparency and Limitations:

• Learned about limitations of transparency, especially with strategic partners.
• Stressed the need to be delicate and careful in information sharing.

Coaching Up and Positive Criticism:

• Coaching up by criticizing oneself first before others.
• Positive impact of maintaining a growth-oriented and positive culture.

• Transition from payments (Vantiv, now WorldPay ) to travel.
• Six and a half years in the payments industry during a transformative period.
• Met founder of Allegiant, recognized it as a platform company, similar to Amazon, and eventually came on as CMO.

Industry Trends:

• Resurgence in consumers using online travel agencies post-pandemic.
• Airlines seeking additional highly profitable revenue pools.
• Emphasis on sustainability in the travel industry.

Impact of AI:

• AI improves search behavior for consumers.
• Prediction: Within two years, about two-thirds of traditional call center issues handled by generative AI.

Role of Technology:

• Companies like Kevil enabling travel businesses to monetize the audience through ad serving platforms.
• AI transforming search engine optimization (SEO).
• Potential for more relevant and customized bundles for consumers.

Focus on OTA (Online Travel Agencies):

• Discussion on the battle for checkout between direct sellers and OTA providers.
• Allegiant's decision to stay off OTA and the reasons behind it.
• Pros and cons of choosing to sell only direct to consumers.

Technology in Travel:

• Most promising aspect of technology: Solutions addressing the challenge of purpose-built systems in the travel industry.
• Overhyped aspect: Emphasis on creature comforts like onboard entertainment, which may not be significant for leisure travelers willing to pay a premium.

Closing Thoughts:

• Acknowledgment of the exciting time for travel tech.
• Recognition of Allegiant's position to leverage trends in the industry.
• Appreciation for sharing insights on the travel industry.
• Insightful discussion on technology, AI, and their role in shaping the future of the travel industry.

Find Scott on Linkedin.

We’re building a better financial system for creators. So if you’re a YouTuber, an Instagram influencer, a TikTok or Twitch streamer, you are a business, albeit a new and different type of one that makes a living from content. Many of these new types of businesses really struggle to figure out their finances around getting access to credit, help with their taxes, setting up business bank accounts. And so that’s what we help them do.

• Eric recently started kicking awareness into overdrive with by leading content. What was that like?

Our content strategy was really motivated by two things. The first is tremendous business value. The second is that personal connection you alluded to from a business perspective as more and more people learn how to make content. That’s how they’re learning to receive information and learn about new things too. The way to win distribution and marketing today isn’t necessarily through running ads, it’s by creating genuinely compelling pieces of content that people will go and watch. We believe in this thesis because our entire client and business segment we work with does this to grow reach and revenue for their products and services. So we said well, why shouldn’t we do this for ourselves?

 I find it really hard. As I mentioned growing up I was so focused on ensuring that I did a good job in terms of landing in a financially stable and safe occupation that anything like putting myself on camera felt narcissistic. It felt like navel-gazing, like, why would anybody wanna listen to me? Why should I do it? And part of what eventually got me to try was, as I mentioned, seeing all my friends, seeing everybody finding it so casual and simple to make content nowadays. It’s the same reason Karat exists. Other people are figuring out this ease and simplicity, and it motivated me to try doing it for our company, too.

• Talk to us about the Karat user?

Our target client is someone who’s made a living from their content. Whether it’s shared via subscriptions, shared with users on Patreon, Twitch, or from ad revenue being shared with them as on YouTube or even sponsorships they’re doing themselves, which you see a lot of with Instagram influencers. Like any other businessperson, they’re focused number one above everything else on what’s going to help me grow my business faster. For them, that’s things that either help them make more content, more money, or build their following base, while reducing the time they need to spend on everything else. That is not one of those three things. Our very first product was a business charge card that provided them with limits that actually made sense, because we underwrote them based off their financials and social stats instead of their credit history.

• What's exciting that's up and coming for Karat?

The focus for us has been on building that card in every creator and YouTuber’s wallet that they pull out and say hey, that’s a Karat card. Because our vision is once you have the card, we’ll be able to cross-sell you into other financial products and services that you also need, but might not have considered because you didn’t have the time to assess properly and didn’t know who to trust.

Eric: We’ve been around for about four years. Even in the first year we launched the card we were seeing 50, 60, 70% growth month-over-month. And it was primarily organic, because this population didn’t really know much about how to figure out their finances. That’s why when they found a source that they actually trusted and heard of, they leapt on it. There was almost this pent-up demand that just didn’t know where to go that all suddenly just swept into us. Similarly, we launched our bookkeeping and tax service about a year ago. Initially we didn’t know what to expect. As I mentioned before, this space is really based on trust, and we had explored bookkeeping taxes as one of our very first products to start with, but there wasn’t much interest because no one knew exactly what we were doing. But when we relaunched it after having built up that trust and credibility, we again saw double-digit growth every month and quickly exceeded even our capacity to serve.

• Can and should big FIs pile on to the content and community strategy?

I think there’s two points here. The first is at this current moment, there’s more focus on ensuring the core banking infrastructure in America, and frankly the world, is stable before saying we’re gonna go and build the coolest new “Dogecoin for Uber drivers named Kevin” app. We saw a little bit more of that a couple of years ago. Now I think it’s more like, if you hold my money, will it still be there? So that’s a pretty big shift. The second, if you think about some of these recent collapses in the first place, they were driven by bank runs. They were driven by animal spirits. It is in the actual business model of a bank to obviously have a money multiplier, to have a reserve ratio such that if you think about it, any bank is potentially at risk of a bank run. It just occurs if people are scared. And I’m not saying just go and build good community and everyone’s gonna be super happy and hopeful, because let’s be honest: SVB actually did a fantastic job building community and it still didn’t work out right. But it doesn’t hurt in times where peoples’ fear, uncertainty, and doubt can manifest into wiping out billions of dollars of shareholder value. I think you do have to consider well, what can I do to help to reinforce trust, awareness that I exist, and that I’m doing the best I can? I think that’s a big part of where content and community can be helpful.

• Who do you think is killing it in terms of community and content in FinTech?

So yes, number one I actually do think Mercury’s done a really good job. Number two, I’m actually gonna pick a slightly older example than most recent-crop FinTechs. Look at Square and CashApp. When CashApp launched, Venmo had already been around for a long time. Payment apps really die and thrive based on their ability to build network effects. So in a way it’s actually very challenging and tricky to say “oh yeah, here’s a company that has already built this really cool digital peer-to-peer payments app, and they have tremendous network effects, and from a product perspective there’s a couple of things we can do differently, but yeah, let’s go in and fight them.” 

• How did the idea for CNote originate? 

At the intersection of social responsibility and financial services, CNote was born out of the need to align large institutional investors' values with their cash and fixed income portfolios. Cat, the founder, observed a growing interest among major clients to invest in socially responsible or ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) assets. Recognizing the lack of options in the cash and fixed income space, Cat saw an opportunity to create a scalable solution that would enable investors to allocate their funds in alignment with their values, while addressing the wealth gap in underserved communities.

• What motivated Cat to transition from a large financial services firm to launching CNote? 

Cat's personal motivation stemmed from witnessing the widening wealth gap in the United States, juxtaposed with the increasing interest in values-aligned investments. Fueled by a desire to make a meaningful impact and promote financial inclusion and diversity, Cat left her position as a managing director to start CNote. The goal was to create a tech platform that could facilitate the movement of cash and fixed income from corporations and foundations into community finance, ultimately serving the larger good.

• What was Cat's founder journey like, transitioning from a large institution to starting a business? 

Cat had a natural inclination toward problem-solving and entrepreneurship throughout her career. Even while working in a large corporation, she consistently gravitated towards creating new opportunities and solving market challenges. The decision to start CNote allowed Cat to combine her passions for finance, technology, and driving economic justice. Building a mission-driven startup was both exciting and challenging, as it required balancing financial stability and profitability with a commitment to a larger societal issue.

• How does being a mission-driven startup differ from a typical startup? 

Being a mission-driven startup brings a unique level of excitement and difficulty. The privilege of working on a problem that deeply matters on a societal level is a motivating factor for the team at CNote. Their commitment to the mission attracts talented individuals who share the same passion. However, balancing financial stability with the pursuit of a mission is a constant challenge. Cat emphasizes the importance of establishing a solid business model and a growth plan to sustain a mission-driven company.

• How does CNote approach team diversity and why is it important? 

CNote values and prioritizes team diversity. With an exceptionally diverse team, CNote benefits from attracting talent through networks that are already diverse. Intentional efforts are made to ensure diversity in the hiring process. While it requires additional work, the commitment to diversity is reflected in the team's low turnover rate and the high number of applicants for every job posting.

• How does CNote operate within the corporate treasury space, and how has recent events like the SVB crisis influenced the mindset of enterprises regarding cash management? 

CNote's focus lies within the corporate treasury space, working with corporate treasurers and CFOs to optimize their cash management. The recent SVB (Silicon Valley Bank) crisis and other similar events have shifted the mindset of enterprises. The conversation has moved from seeking yield opportunities to emphasizing capital preservation and risk mitigation. CNote's solution, which prioritizes capital preservation and offers complete transparency to banking partners, proved valuable during these events. The crisis prompted a heightened interest in CNote's approach, particularly in managing cash and providing exposure control and transparency.

• Will CNote expand its solution to cater to mid-market and small business customers in the future? 

While currently focused on serving enterprises, CNote recognizes the vast opportunities within cash management for mid-market and small business customers. The scalability of their solution allows them to move towards these markets. CNote acknowledges the demand and plans to broaden its reach beyond enterprise clients to support a wider range.

About the Guest:

• Catherine Berman on Linkedin
• CNote website

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

From 30,000 feet, what we're all about is simplifying the business of running a business. In this context, that means our three different product sets: benefits, corporate payments, and fleet payments.

What’s happening in payments?

A few major things… 1) Digitization of payments: even when Jay started his career in 2001, he was focused on the death of the check, and it’s still the last bastion of manual payments today. 2) Consumerization of B2B payments: users are seeking Venmo and PayPal-like experiences in their B2B software experiences, so we’ve seen a shift to become hyper-focused on UI. 3) Long-term convergence between software and payments: thinking through how to take software and turn widgets that really turn it into a service, closer to embedded payments.

What about what’s happening in vertical payments and fleet specifically?

It’s all about how you take the payments, the data, and technology together in a way that’s bespoke for a particular segment and then rinse and repeat. It’s not a particularly complex space, it’s just been around for a long time – about three decades – and there are only a few players purely focused on it.

How to map the huge billion-dollar market in the fleet?

WEX thinks about two buyers on the services side: the fleet manager who is typically mid-market or more advanced fleets or the small business owner who has very limited time, and they need the operations of the fleet to be abstracted away so they can do their most pressing work.

It seems like all of the new VC-backed entrants are making plays to 15 other financial services outside of just fuel cards. What does expansion in this space really look like?

At WEX, the spirit of the offering is simplification, and so there is an absolutely sensible sense in expanding the suite of product offerings. The WEX learning is to focus less on what they CAN do and more on what the customer craves. This has meant investment in the credit extension area more than anything.

Where does EV come into play?

It’s not a transition to EV; it's a transition to a mixed fleet… and there’s still a financial services experience for that source, which is less complex in the money movement sense but may command a SaaS model.

What’s the most exciting trend happening?

For Jay, it’s much less about the business model and much more about empathizing deeply with a top pain point for the finite profiles of customers they engage with. The most exciting focus for him is about a workflow that needs to be solved.

About the Guest:

• Jay Dearborn Linkedin
• More about WEX

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Andy and Matt talk about the shift in thinking that Millennials and Gen Z’s catalyze in regards to sustainability and buying preferences
• Like all of the big name innovators in the space like Rent the Runway and ThredUp, Trove started as a peer-to-peer model but the team realized early on that the way resale best played out for clothing was actually more akin to buying a certified pre-owned vehicle – bring control back to the brand.
• The only way to create a really elegant experience is by creating a manager marketplace not a peer-to-peer one
• Thrifting is come into its own in a huge way, and legacy retailers don’t understand that because their traditional leadership may still hold old notions of how thrift is perceived
• The way to make reCommerce successful is by making it invisible and right alongside buying new fashion
• There's a culture contradiction going on too – the rise of Shein and other fast fashion platforms seem like they are in direct violation of the sustainable preferences that we are seeing with younger generations. In Andy’s perspective, premium brands are able to compete on a price basis by integrating reCommerce and as such the middle market and those throwaway retailers will feel the pressure especially as social stigma grows.

About the Guest:

• Andy Ruben
• Company Website

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Chris began his career in IT at Nintendo before the company itself had a product.
• As he matured in his career Chris began to refine his expertise across sectors and products to deeply understand how to approach the sales process for different conditions.
• Chris then walks us through the EagleView and Pictometry merger.
•  Chris uses the metaphor of dating before marriage to exemplify how the companies became familiar with one another through their customer and supplier relationship before carrying out a merger.
• Boards are the needed “adult supervision” for strategic business decisions, Chris believes. It was ultimately with the board of Pictometry that was the best audience to push forward the merger.
• While departments like finance or HR needed to be downsized in the merger, they kept the two sales organizations running to expand growth.
• “When I first became a CEO, one of my board members gave me some advice. He said, he said, ‘as a CEO, You're gonna experience two emotions, uh, more often than not, and you're gonna experience euphoria and you're gonna experience terror.’”
• Insurance is a small professional circle which means if you have a bad proof of concept at one carrier, word will certainly travel.
• Chris started a business in 2008 and with such tight capital, he stressed getting to profitability in 3-4 years as a key intention.

About the Guest:

• Chris Barrow Linkedin
• Imagen Capital Partners | EagleView Technologies

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Growing up with a physician father and social worker mother, a life of service was drilled into her from an early age for Betsy Cohen
• After absolutely hating philosophy as a major, she changed her focus to law on a whim
• Then after law school she was awarded a prestigious internship with a law firm and performed brilliantly. However upon completion her manager conveyed that the senior leadership of the firm was not yet ready to have a woman as a professional colleague. After that moment she swore never to work for someone again and began her entrepreneurial journey.
• After law school Betsy went to go teach and then became interested as a new bank law passed, enabling new banks to be chartered in the early 70s
• She then became one of the first women to lead a bank as she filed for charter in Pennsylvania
• Betsy called herself an observer, looking for negative space and could start to see that the banking space was simply not going to serve the digital world of the future as the early 2000s approached.
• Betsy wondered how banks could serve financial technology companies, and that birthed the Bancorp – a pioneer in what would become the sponsor bank framework.
• Dan recalls that Betsy was the person who he first heard the term SPAC from, an area where she and her son Daniel developed expertise.
• Unlike the fund model, the SPAC model enables you to deeply understand the company in Betsy’s perspective.
• Today, Betsy is more focused on investing in FInTech and advising founders with her deep experience in bank partnerships.

About the Guest:

• Betsy on Linkedin
• Cohen Circle

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Since joining Lazard in 2002, Dima has been investing actively in public equities in financial services with long horizons. 
• So, are we in recession? To Dima we either already are or about to experience one. However the real question is about the magnitude of such a recession.
• Dima started in 2002 when JPM stock went down about 50% and of course, was still an analyst in the Global Financial Crisis, and the common theme for both of those was the very high amount of leverage in the system.
• In the GFC there was tremendous leverage for the consumer, not just in mortgages as well as in the banking sector.
• The difference coming into this downturn is that our financial baseline is different, right now consumer deposits are still multiples higher than at 2019 and commercial balance sheets are similarly positive. Our balance sheet health is stronger.
• Banks have been prevented from getting into high risk areas like leveraged lending or subprime consumers because of the heightened regulation, which is a safety mechanism against higher levels of stress.
• Back on magnitude, what’s the key driver of the spectrum there? Dima comes back to liquidity and in the context of the last few years banks are still flush with positive account balances. Of course, unemployment is a top factor to depression and today that rate is still hovering at record lows. 
• Rate hikes that have been unprecedented are not going to be felt overnight but will be reconciled in the coming quarters.
• Angst in the investor community is more so a pain in a market correction versus true fundamental structural challenges.
• However, the Fed is creating a tightening condition and that is in fact very real for recession.
• A handful of Fintech players are deeply challenged by these conditions, BNPL is a clear example of threats from cyclical markets.
• Businesses with revenue models driven by leveraging regulatory loopholes, like payments for order flow or Durbin-exempt interchange. The risk of these models being turned upside down is far too high. 
• Dima believes the banks will continue to invest in technology because there’s no other choice because 1. They must spend money to modernize and 2. They must spend money in order to retain and gain market share.
• The key ingredient for the IPO boom to return is market stability and that will likely happen when the Fed stabilizes rates and the market finds its new base. 

About the Guest:

• Dima Batsev on Linkedin
• More about Lazard

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

Our Predictions, debated:

1. Buy Now Pay Later (BNPL) implodes.

2. More than a few challenger banks look for exits, or fold.

3. Private equity rolls up public former D2C retail darlings.

4. Crypto winter will persist through 2023, but not forever.

5. Mass merchants face headwinds while luxury booms.

6. Incumbents acquire at least one venture-backed payments company for $1B+.

7. Skyrocketing consumer borrowing in 2022 makes credit servicing and collections a critical category for investment in 2023.

8. Venture funding bottoms out in Q1, before rising in Q2.

9. Scrappy founders return.

10. Retailers invest in the automation of stores and supply chains as labor markets remain tight. 

About the Guest:

• Dan on LinkedIn, Matt on Linkedin, Ys on Linkedin
• Commerce Website

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Pete grew up in Ohio with 4 other siblings with a serious amount energy, which we later found out was ADD
• Without a diagnosis, Pete knew that his energy and intention meant he wouldn’t be a great employees, but entrepreneurship could be channel to funnel his drive at his own pace.
• Pete dropped out of college with just a quarter to complete and ended up running a chain of gyms. After spending time with some bankers he became aware of ACH that they were using to collect monthly life insurance payment
• I was talking to banks about accessing ACH, and a banker took pity on me by sharing Regulation E. I read it and saw it didn’t explicitly say non-banks could use ACH.
• I used a local bank introduction in Columbus to access ACh, thanks to John McCoy. But it took me a little over a year to actually launch products. But in Columbus, Ohio you can’t hack out of a garage, it’s too cold! So Pete went to work with a single programmer and borrowed a computer from a local real estate company out of his grandmother's basement. 
• Pete capitalized the business after getting 250 VC introductions, getting 200 “nos” and 250 “hell nos.” It was his lawyer that suggested that insurance companies would understand the excitement for the product.
• He eventually raised a 3M round with 4 insurance companies from Ohio.
• The company went public in 1995.
• Pete never wanted to take a company public, he just wanted to win.
• Pete decided to sell the company after seeing the way banks were in way over their head.

About the Guest:

• Peter Kight

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Guidewire provides a core cloud platform for property and casualty insurance providers, making the providers smarter and faster with technology. In a corp dev perspective, Mike is always looking for the next thing that will make the business more valuable to its provider customers.
• It’s easy to assume that when you build a new and shiny product that it will be adopted, but Mike cautions us that this simply isn’t the case in insurance. You need sector specific experts to give you perspective.
• Buying power is extremely concentrated in insurance, you have 30-40 carriers whereas in FinTech you have 100s of banks who are willing to buy new technology. 
• Most insurance product have 70-85% renewal rates with NPSs of 10 so they are uniquely positioned 
• Why do carriers view themselves as independent players vs buyers as a collective?
• If they’ve got two paying carriers using the tech in production and a pipeline of 10-15 that is traction in Mike’s mine
• The best thing an InsurTech founder can do is raise a big round early so they can avoid the spiral of raising everything a sales cycle is delayed
• B2B SaaS players in InsurTech can reach out to Mike on Linkedin to connect

About the Guest:

• Mike Chen on Linkedin
• More about Guidewire

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

About the Guest:

• Vrinda Gupta
• More about Sequin

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Brandon Schulz: is the founder of Violet who
• Jordan Gal: is the founder of Rally. He started out as a merchant himself and jumped into the merchant software side of things.
• Thinking about one of the last things he bought online, which was in fact on Amazon, Brandon reflects on how Amazon sets the tone on how consumers expect to interact with checkout. Since their one-click checkout patent expires 
• Matt reminds us that after that patent expiration the market rallied around big brand companies like Fast and Bolt attacking checkout and its rise and fall. Jordan underscored the entertainment of the Twitter war-zone. Overall, Jordan feels the prize for checkout is a mammoth one and that’s what draws so many eyeballs because an unbundled checkout has the ability to dethrone platform
• According to Brandon, the kind of phenomenon that happened to Bolt and Fast simply happens because the internet loves bigness. Because checkout touches so many different money flows and general market froth, ridiculous market sizes like Bolt’s $12B valuation at $5M in revenue could fly in a bull market.
• FinTech investors or specialists in developer tools almost simplified checkout and capital flowed into the space, but people are starting to realize e-commerce requires a LOT of infrastructure and a LOT of nuance.
• The manual card payment conveyance, fill out form virtually hasn’t changed since the 1990s.
• Today Shopify can help solve some of that because you can do one-click checkout across the network, but if the merchant isn’t on the network that experience is still very fragmented for the consumer.
• “The Front-End Trap” is when folks who want to build cool new commerce products get distracted on the look and feel without having the sufficient context to truly address the infrastructure

About the Guest:

• Jordan on Linkedin, Brandon on Linkedin
• Rally website, Violet website

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Bradley defines web3 and what it means to be a driver of the next generation of the internet.
• If the medium for exchange with a creator and the community is a currency then we are enabling individuals to create their own economies. 
• Social tokens is a reinvention of the term “social capital” but with true fungibility and value
• Bradley recognizes that just in the span of 4 years recognition of crypto has completely transformed to be known by the general public
• Bradley sends Kendall a token on a web2 web3 bridge, where a custodial wallet can send an erc-20 token to a non-custodial wallet like MetaMask
• They imagine a world where you can swipe your credit card and pay for a pizza with the coins you hold
• Music, Youtubers, and creators are now all onboarded onto Roll - “The great thing about money is it’s universal… it appeals to every type of creator.”
• Kendall and Bradley discuss smart contracts 101 and how that create security and compliance

About the Guest:

• Bradley on Linkedin
• More about Roll

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• After studying economics at USC, Shveta inadvertently fell into a career in M&A after seeing many of her peers pursue the same path. She  started out at Deloitte’s mid-market investment banking practice.
• She then was able to steer important M&A decisions on the sell side as a leader in corporate development at Lynda, where she played a key role in Linkedin’s acquisition of the company.
• It was this transaction that encouraged Shveta to think beyond just the mechanics of M&A activities and more about how the entire process impacts  employees through the transition at large.
• Today, Shveta oversees more of the buy-side of M&A as the SVP of Corporate Development at Intuit where she has managed the acquisition of Mailchimp and Credit Karma.
• Reflecting on these deals, Shveta stresses that every deal is complex and unique in its own right.
• She shares learning from Credit Karma how to navigate a deal with potential regulatory scrutiny and from Mailchimp  how to operate in a very competitive and quick process.
• Shveta talks about gender dynamics in the M&A world and the way she personally creates space for access in her role.

About the Guest:

• Shveta Mujumdar on Linkedin 
• More about Intuit

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• Kaya talks about the transition of individual creators and entertainment personalities as growing business people and enterprises.
• Kendall and Kaya define what a social token actually is and how it’s used in today’s context, even though the majority of creators haven’t begun creating coins.
• 80% of creators rely on brand partnerships and Kaya believed that will continue to be the bread and butter of creator income however now more than ever there are more options to monetize.
• The two major challenges for creators to continue a smooth income Kaya often sees are back-office management for creatives and emotional burnout.
• Kaya believes the buzz around NFT and web 3 is exciting but still in very early stages where the clear value for the mass market is generally unclear. She believes that with time these kinds of products can help create more monetizable experiences 

About the Guest:

• Kaya Yurieff on LinkedIn 
• Subscribe to Kaya’s Creator Economy Newsletter

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium

• How does the leader fit in rest and balance in the c-suite? Blocking time for immersion in nature and being present with his family.
• Shane broke into technology first in sales and joined MX as chief revenue officer, after resonating with the mission orientation of the company and the stories of the leadership team he came aboard excited to apply his past experience and learn the unique nuances of the businesses. 
• Being a mission-driven company means creating a culture where employees feel a sense of purpose around their work. Coming from a household with a single mom, Shane felt a personal connection to the MX intent to make financial literacy more accessible and empower individuals. 
• Shane’s path to the CEO was unconventional to say the least after MX lost both co-founders, one to cancer and the other after he needed to step back due to the health of his daughter. For Shane, it was critical for him to do right by the founders and still piece together a fully conceptualized vision for the future.
• The interim CEO’s personal leadership philosophy is less about telling and more about supporting. Shane prioritizes showing up for people and showing up for people when they get stuck.
• The market is in an uncertain place but both Dan and Shane agree the need for a market correction is long overdue and what we see today is an early sign of this kind of return to Earth. While we don’t know exactly where things will land, it’s possible that the macro trends will get worse before they get better.

About the Guest:

• Shane Evans on Linkedin
• Company Website

Interested in keeping up with the latest in FinTech and Retail Tech? Check out our website to learn more about us and follow our social media to stay up to date.

Follow Commerce Ventures: 

Twitter

LinkedIn

Medium