Scale or Die

#24: Bryn Jones, CEO @ PartnerStack, on how to build a profitable partner program

benj@useproof.com (bryn jones, dave rogenmoser) — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 12:00:11 +0000

On average, 30% of revenue for SaaS companies comes from partner programs. And huge publicly traded companies such as HubSpot and Shopify rely on their partner channels for nearly 40% of their revenue! Early on with your program, you might feel like a partner channel is growing painfully slow, but in reality, the long-term value of this channel is huge.

In this episode, Bryn Jones, founder of PartnerStack, breaks down the ins and outs of how to build a great partner program for your company. Dave talks with Bryn about what investors think of partner programs, how to pitch investors on the idea, what percentage of sales should you give out in order to attract the right partners, and how to build your partner program in a responsible way.

In this episode you’ll learn:

0:00 Introduction

3:18 Bryn talks about his experience at YCombinator

8:40 Bryn breaks down the 3 main factors of a partner channel

12:22 What does a really great partner program look like?

15:02 What percentage do you see most SaaS companies giving up to their partners in order to make a sale?

19:27 What do investors think about the revenue stream that is partner revenue?

28:35 What has that growth journey been like at PartnerStack?

35:25 What have been the mistakes that you've made along the way?

44:36 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

We're excited to have you along for Season 1 of #ScaleOrDie. Before you leave, be sure to leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, post a comment, or share with your friends! Tune into more episodes at useproof.com/scaleordie and read more stories at blog.useproof.com. Follow Dave & Proof on Twitter — @DaveRogemoser and @UseProof. We publish episodes every week so be sure to check back often for more interviews with the internet’s best minds in growth!

#23: Ed Fry, Growth at Paddle, on the future of data & personalized experiences

benj@useproof.com (dave rogenmoser, ed fry) — Tue, 3 Dec 2019 12:00:04 +0000

For the past 6 years, Ed Fry has been working in B2B companies such as Hubspot, Hull.io, and Inbound.org. Shortly after our interview, Ed started working as a SaaS growth consultant and now works as Head of Growth at Paddle, a UK-based SaaS for subscription and E-commerce.

Our conversation with Ed covers the role of data in 2019. While data is becoming ever more available, the sheer volume of data at your disposal can also be frustrating. Where do you start? What do you do with all this data? How does data impact important growth metrics?

In January 2016, Ed went on a journey to really get into data and data strategy to create more personalized experiences for customers. In this episode, Dave talks with Ed about how to use data to scale your startup, how to use data to personalize experiences for users, and what some B2B startups are doing wrong with data.

Listen in and get some free growth consulting from Ed!

In this episode you’ll learn:

0:00 Introduction

3:57 Ed’s 2016 deep dive into data

11:56 Where most B2B startups are getting it wrong or getting stuck when it comes to data

14:06 Ed describes his time at Hull.io

24:07 Listens to Ed’s advice on the practice of using personalized data to scale your startup

26:14 If every piece of data was available — what would we do?

31:28 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#22: Kirsten Newbold-Knipp, on aligning sales & marketing

benj@useproof.com (Ben Johnson) — Tue, 26 Nov 2019 11:00:20 +0000

Kirsten Newbold-Knipp, an original member of the Hubspot mafia (listen in for details), shares her in-depth knowledge of how to better unite sales and marketing teams. She’ll share her insights from years in leadership at some wildly successful B2B brands: BigCommerce, Gartner, Hubspot, and Convey.

Our conversation covers how to host great user events that drive intimacy with your customers (she started Inbound) as well as some indicators of when exactly your business is at the point to host a customer event. We’ll also help you think about how to measure marketing success and create an inter-channel connectivity as you grow your brand.

In this episode you’ll learn:

0:00 An introduction with Kirsten

5:00 How to use events to create intimacy with customers (and how we ended up creating Inbound)

12:10 When your business should start hosting events for customers

26:20 How to coordinate your marketing and sales efforts

33:53 Where sales and marketing commonly break down

40:59 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#21: Frank Barry, COO of Tithe.ly, on building SaaS for a non-traditional industry

benj@useproof.com (frank barry, dave rogenmoser) — Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:00:08 +0000

Tithe.ly is a SaaS business that’s going after a huge, but underserved market: churches and religious institutions.

And for the past several years, the business has been growing like crazy, with over 700 religious institutions signing up per month. But that’s not even the crazy part!

Tithe.ly wants to make sure customers really love them. When a new prospect or customer signs up for the software, they get a personal welcome call from someone on the Tithe.ly team.

In this episode, Frank talks with Dave about delivering delightful customer experiences, investing in content, and how to creatively scale a business.

In this episode you’ll learn:

0:00 Introduction

2:11 Learn about Tithe.ly’s business model

4:08 Insights into growth channels

11:00 Creating exceptional touchpoints with customers

24:34 Lessons learned about SaaS over the last 4 years

30:28 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#20 Jonathan Kim, CEO @ Appuces, on leaving Hubspot to build the product-led growth platform

benj@useproof.com (Ben Johnson) — Tue, 29 Oct 2019 11:00:08 +0000

5 years ago, Jonathan Kim started Appcues to help product and growth teams create more relevant onboarding flows. Today, Appcues serves over 1000 customers and has grown to nearly 70 employees.

Jonathan’s idea all started at the end of his career at Hubspot, as he was having a conversation with his boss, the future founder of Drift, David Cancel.

In his words: “David Cancel comes over to my desk and he's like, ‘Hey man, like I've been seeing you and you're either at 110% and you're super passionate about something, or you're just not passionate at all.

We caught up a little later and you know I started talking about this thing. I was like, oh man, how about we crack this huge problem around user onboarding — and check out this landing page I built and it could be like a real product.”

And he said, "The way you light up about that, ‘that's what you're really passionate about.’”

He was like, "You should go do that." And I said, “Okay I guess you're right. I just kinda quit on the spot because I was so passionate about the problem.”

In this episode you’ll learn:

0:00 Introduction

1:28 What exactly is Appcues? How would you describe the business?

2:43 What allows you to build a great company with great products?

7:38 A growth strategy built on inbound marketing

14:59 How to approach pricing as you move up-market

20:48 Jonathan's thoughts on how companies should be thinking about on-boarding

29: 03 The Salty Six

#19: Laura Roeder, founder of MeetEdgar, on creating a SaaS business that works on your own terms

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser, Laura Roeder) — Tue, 15 Oct 2019 11:00:06 +0000

Running a business and running a family is no easy task. But Laura Roder manages to do both — and she has some great insights on how to be a full-time parent, an entrepreneur, and continue to have a normal work-life balance.

In this episode, the conversation is focused on how to create a business that works on your terms. To work in a way not dominated by due dates and deadlines but one in which meaningful work is done over a period of time. Learn how Laura applies this idea into both her personal life and her business.

Show notes:

0:00 Introduction

1:32 What is MeetEdgar?

2:55 Building a business on your own terms

8:54 Principles for creating great remote work

20:01 How to be a parent and run a startup

25:19 The story behind launching and growing Meet Edgar

41:10 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#18: Eric Siu, CEO at Single Grain, on the most effective content marketing strategies for crazy traffic

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser, Eric Siu) — Tue, 1 Oct 2019 11:00:21 +0000

Eric runs Single Grain, the digital marketing agency running paid traffic, SEO, and content campaigns for many of the biggest names in tech (such as Uber, Salesforce, and Lever!) Eric is also the founder of a SaaS company called Clickflow, which helps businesses grow organic traffic and revenues.

In this interview, we have an in-depth discussion on content marketing. We'll learn about SEO strategies, proven formulas, driving traffic, link building, content creation, podcast creation, and paid ads. This episode is full of simple, practical information that you can apply to your startup… today!

In this episode you’ll learn:

0:00 Introduction
3:28 What’s working for SaaS right now
5:39 Learn how Eric is driving traffic and getting trials for Clickflow
6:20 When is a SaaS company ready to spend money on paid traffic?
8:29 SEO? Content? Learn about what you should be doing at every stage of business.
9:59 Is there a simple formula forSEO?
20:02 Should startups be getting involved in podcasts?
30:08 Eric’s growth strategy for ClickFlow
34:35 The Salty Six

#17: Ian Blair, the 26 year-old CEO, who built a multi-million dollar app development agency

benj@useproof.com (dave rogenmoser, ian blair) — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 11:00:16 +0000

Ian Blair, Co-Founder and CEO of BuildFire, isn’t your average SaaS CEO. Ian is like the Dos Equis man (the most interesting man in the world) of SaaS. Ian’s definition of fun ranges from driving exotic cars to surfing and flying planes the world. Oh, and did I mention he’s only 26 years old?

Listen to this episode to get Ian’s unique story about the different channels of growth he focused on while scaling BuildFire into one of the largest app agencies in the country. In this episode, we’ll talk through creating sustainable organic traffic through SEO, how to multiply the effectiveness of your sales team, and Ian’s perspective on fundraising. In this episode you’ll learn:

1:08 Ian’s most expensive hobby

4:08 The background on BuildFire

5:28 How much should you charge for your subscription software?

9:17 Fundraising strategies 101

14:49 Creating sustainable organic traffic for your business through SEO

20:49 Scaling the sales side of your company

28:38 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#16: Peep Laja, Founder @ CXL, on a decade long career pioneering CRO

benj@useproof.com (peep laja, dave rogenmoser) — Tue, 3 Sep 2019 11:00:10 +0000

Ever been overwhelmed while trying to figure out exactly what to test on your site? You’re not alone. Every time you go online to Google “conversion optimization,” you’ll see thousands of sites touting proven strategies that you need to try on your own site. Where do you start? Peep Laja has built CXL by helping provide strategies for companies of all sizes to implement CRO.

While conversion optimization might not be as sexy as traffic or funnels — it’s value can’t be diminished.Peep started diving into conversion in 2007 when not a ton of other people were doing it, and he currently sits at the cutting edge of CRO strategies

Join us as we learn from Peep’s decade long career pioneering CRO.

Show Notes:

1:08 The backstory on how Peep got started in Conversion Optimization
2:53 Common mistakes companies make with CRO
6:03 “99 proven strategies for conversion” — which one works for you?
9:54 The best practices for quality assurance when you’re A/B Testing
17:26 Insights about user testing
37:25 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#15: Chris Savage, CEO of Wistia, the company that helps businesses use video better

benj@useproof.com (chris savage, dave rogenmoser) — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 11:00:28 +0000

Our interview with Chris covers a whole lot: from his relationship with his co-founder (who also happens to be his freshman year college roommate) to the many risks he's taken over the years to grow to nearly 1 million accounts & tens of thousands of paying customers!

Along the way, Chris has approached growth in an incredibly interesting way. He's one of the biggest proponents of brand advertising, he takes calculated creative risks other CEOs would avoid, and of recent, he's raised a debt round to buy out his investors.

Overall, Chris thinks about business in a really unique way and our conversation provides some great insights about how to build a product with a customer in mind, how to take risks, and ways any business can be slightly more creative!

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

1:04 Learn about Wistia’s Business
7:03 Co-Founder Relationship with his roommate from freshman year of college
17:34 What led to Wistia feeling like they had traction in the market
25:10 $111,000 Creative Marketing Risk
34:15 Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Product Launch 4: You win the launch before you launch

benj@useproof.com (Dave rogenmoser, chris hull) — Fri, 9 Aug 2019 10:00:04 +0000

In this week’s episode, I’m subbing in my good friend and co-founder, Chris Hull. While I’ve been focused on leading the Product Team for our Lifecycle Campaigns product, Chris has been helping lead the launch team for our Smart Content product.

So often in business, we tend to think about things as controllable or non-controllable. But when you launch a product, it can be overwhelming as you think of all the things that are completely out of your control.

At Proof, we have been focusing on what we can control, how we can prepare for launch now, and how we can be flexible when we do finally launch. Our approach during product launch has been to define a controllable outcome and create a process to evaluate that process at regular intervals. Finally, we’ve built a system to get feedback at the end of all this.

Come join us in this episode as we try to “win the launch,” before we launch.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

#14: Guillaume Cabane: The Man Behind Drift & Segment's Explosive Growth

benj@useproof.com (guillaume cabane, dave rogenmoser) — Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:00:24 +0000

As the growth mind behind Mention, Segment, and Drift, Guillaume Cabane has helped scale some of the most successful B2B brands in the world. In our interview, Guillaume dives into the value of creating new growth strategies rather than just copying what everyone else in the market is doing. We’ll learn about how Guillaume’s network of peers help him evaluate his new ideas and verify different growth strategies before they’re launched to market.

Find out why the future of marketing is less about a spray and pray mentality, but more about creating a great experience. Guillaume is a proponent of looking at the customized personal experiences that B2C companies provide and bringing them into the B2B world. You don’t want to miss this one...

In This Episode You’ll Learn:

1:24 Learn about Guillaume’s unique philosophy on growth
5:32 What creates customer satisfaction?
10:07 Insider secrets to growth strategies
17:32 Big trends for B2B Marketing over the next 5 to 10 years
22:35 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Product Launch 3: Building a Founder-Led Sales Process

benj@useproof.com (dave rogenmoser) — Fri, 2 Aug 2019 15:58:15 +0000

Founder and sales rep? How does that combo sound?

This week I put on my sales hat as we built out a sales process for our 2 new products.

I want to share with you the 3 key thoughts I’ve had while building out our sales process:

I’m a huge believer that if you want to learn something fast, hire someone that knows it better than you. So I hired a sales coach!
Early in our sales process, we are solely focusing on demos and calls.
We purposefully avoided building out a pricing structure.

In this episode, I’ll explain my rationale for each of these decisions as well an update on our progress getting this two products to market. Come on the journey as I share all of my thoughts from the last week.

And as always, reach out to me, dave@useproof.com with what you liked, what you hated, and any questions you have!

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Product Launch 2: How To Get Juicy Customer Feedback For New Products

benj@useproof.com (dave rogenmoser) — Fri, 26 Jul 2019 11:00:05 +0000

I’ve had a product development metamorphosis. Our Proof team is in the middle of a 6-week product launch challenge. And this week is all about product feedback!

In the episode, I will walk you through the entire process we’ve used to approach product feedback calls. I’m going to share with you everything from how we find interviewees and structure up the calls to the questions we ask and how we handle feedback.

Plus, last week I promised to announce the 2 products Proof is launching during this cycle… Drumroll PLEASE!

Lifecycle campaigns
AI-powered recommended context

Tune in to find out more about these products!

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

#13: Mathilde Collin (CEO @ Front) on radical transparency and company culture in 2019

benj@useproof.com (Mathilde Collin, Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:00:05 +0000

Mathilde Collin is pioneering the fight for radial transparency among SaaS businesses around the globe. Her shared inbox startup, Front, is reinventing email for the way teams work by introducing collaboration, workflows, accountability, and transparency so that every worker can work more efficiently. In 4 short years, Front has grown to over 4700 paying customers including HubSpot, Shopify, and General Assembly.

Find out how transparency has made employees happier at Front (Read Front’s Glassdoor reviews if you don’t believe me), built greater trust within the company, prevented thousands of unnecessary meetings, and created a culture of trust between Front and their customer base.

0:00 Introduction
1:30 Backstory about Front
2:25 Pioneering transparency and building company culture
14:48 What have been Front’s big channels for growth
22:53Learn about future business plans at Front
26:01 The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

We're excited to have you along for Season 2 of #ScaleOrDie. Before you leave, be sure to leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, post a comment, or share with your friends! Tune into more episodes at useproof.com/scaleordie and read more stories at blog.useproof.com. Follow Dave & Proof on Twitter — @DaveRogemoser and @UseProof. We publish episodes every week so be sure to check back often for more interviews with the internet’s best minds in growth!

Product Launch 1: Operation Kickflip - Zero to Launch in 6 Weeks

benj@useproof.com (dave rogenmoser) — Fri, 19 Jul 2019 10:00:11 +0000

I’m going to get very vulnerable with you here and share a story of how we missed the mark. We’ve been building a tool to help you create a remarkable website experiences but somewhere along the way we got lost. The product kept swelling, we lost some momentum. And even worse, we lost some morale.

A few weeks ago, we sat down and got honest with ourselves. We looked at the plans for our Experiences platform and realized there were about 10 smaller stand-alone products that could provide tremendous value for our customers. We’d been making the product way too complicated — for no reason!

Over the next 6 weeks, our company is on a product launch challenge called Operation Kickflip.
Before we can build a high-performance race car (our Experiences Platform), we first need to build a skateboard. Then a bike. Then a motorcycle, and finally a car. 2 of these 10 stand-alone products will be in the market in 6 weeks!

Every week, in this special minishow version of Founder Friday, I’ll be updating you on the progress of developing these new products.

Curious about what the 2 new products that we’re launching? Tune in next Friday — or email me, dave@useproof.com and I’ll personally get you on the waitlist.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Founder Fridays: How to build a great co-founder relationship in business and in life

benj@useproof.com (Ben Johnson) — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:00:02 +0000

Doing business with your best friends — does it work? People have strong opinions about never doing business with friends. I disagree. Having a great co-founder relationship has been one of the keys to our success at Proof over the past couple of years.

During our time at Y-Combinator, I noticed one of the prime reasons for early startup deaths was a result of co-founders not getting along. Our co-founder relationship isn’t perfect, but I want to share with you what has worked for us in our relationship. And it doesn’t just stop at the office, but it carries over into our personal lives as well!

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Founder Fridays: How to host epic team retreats

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 5 Jul 2019 11:00:03 +0000

Next Monday marks the beginning of Proof Camp — one of my favorite weeks of the year. We host team retreats like this twice per year, and I'm excited to share the full details of how we think about the event.

I'll go over why I think retreats are important, how we make Proof Camp epic, how we balance work & play, and the methods we take to make everyone leave better friends. Hope you like this one!

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Founder Fridays: Why we changed our core values and mission this year

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:00:17 +0000

On the podcast, I've talked a lot about how core values are incredibly important when you're building a business. It's what separates you from competitors, and what attracts people to your mission. Until recently, we had 7 core values and a mission statement I thought were perfect. But as our team grew, I realized we'd made a mistake.

We simply had too many values — and our mission statement was, well, boring. I needed to make a change to more align with our current team and the direction our business is heading. In this episode, I'll explain how my cofounders and I approached changing our values and mission statement, why we did it, and what you can take away for your own company.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Founder Fridays: Breaking 80 — how to hit goals faster & easier

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 11:00:09 +0000

I've been golfing for years now. And despite hours and hours of practice & time on the course, I had never shot below 80. It's been frustrating.

This year, in anticipation of a trip to Scotland to golf the Old Course in Scotland with my old man, I decided to change my mentality. I decided to focus on breaking 80. I applied the same thinking that I apply at work to hit goals product blitz after blitz.

By focusing on process rather than outcomes, I hit a 70. In this episode, I'll talk about how to deconstruct a goal & reach outcomes that you couldn't imagine hitting before.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Founder Fridays: "The Board Man gets paid"

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:00:14 +0000

All week, I’ve been telling our team, “The Board Man gets paid!” I love that quote. But what does it mean? Kawhi Leonard is an NBA player that just took the Toronto Raptors to the Finals and won the world championship, knocking off Golden State.

He’s a total freak, and I read an amazing article this week breaking down who he is and how he operates. It has inspired the heck out of me, and I pulled 6 hilarious stories out of it to share with you to inspire you and your team to greatness. Kawhi is a Board Man. Let’s all be Board People.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

#12: Brian Balfour of Reforge on Flywheels, Funnels, and the Future

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 4 Jun 2019 11:00:07 +0000

Are funnels dead? David McClure's famous AARRR funnel framework has been the guide book for growth strategies for years — the problem is McClure's funnel framework is nearly 11 years old!

Are loops and flywheels the new thing? Making the transition from thinking about growth strategies from funnels to loops and flywheels could be the key to drive growth for your business in 2019 and the years to come.

Listen to Brian Balfour, Founder/CEO of Reforge, talk about his experience with growth VP of Growth @ Hubspot. Then we'll cover his journey along the way to scale his new growth masterclass business. Learn from Brian's extensive knowledge gained from countless hours studying 100s of SaaS companies.

0:00 — Introduction
1:48 — How Brian helps companies at Reforge
3:24 — Brian's journey from Hubspot to Reforge
4:42 — Funnels versus loops? Funnels versus flywheels? What's here to stay?
11:08 —Learn how growth cycles play out at Reforge
14:31 — Where do you think paid traffic plays into startups?
20:00 — Examples of building loops into products
22:58 — Brian's biggest challenges at Reforge
23:53 — Why is Reforge's business seasonal?
25:45 — The Salty Six to know Brian better

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#11: Colin Nederkoorn, CEO of Customer.io, on why knowing your customers is the key to growth

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 21 May 2019 11:00:01 +0000

Customer.io is a SaaS product that allows companies to create, manage, and send all of their messages between their apps & their customers. The software solves a common headache by providing a no-code-required solution for product teams — one in which you can pipe in events from platforms like Segment and then drag and drop automated email messages.

Since their launch in 2012, Customer.io has grown rapidly — to 41 employees and more than 1200+ customers ranging from SaaS to lot and beyond!

In our conversation with Colin Nederkoorn, the CEO & co-founder of Customer.io, we’ll cover the origin story and how he powered early growth through directly talking to customers. Then, we’ll dive into why word of mouth has been such a powerful growth method for their brand. Finally, our conversation dives into how Colin is approaching the development of paid & partner marketing, fundraising, brand, and remote culture.

0:00 — Introduction
3:25 — What is Customer.io? What’s the origin story behind the company?
4:46 — Email felt like the universal thing we could affect. We were email only for 3 out of the 6 years.
7:45 — Learning to describe your customers is important — we sell to product teams
8:30 — Who do people switch from? What’s the use case for a product team using customer.io?
9:25 — How did you get your first customers?
9:45 — We reached out to talk to and learn from future customers in forums and on Twitter
10:45 — Playing the long game is important. Early conversation with marketer at (Moz) became a sale 6 years later when that person was a CMO at another company.
11:22 — Launched in private beta in April 2012 with 5 companies paying us $10/month. Then opened as a public beta product about 4 months later.
12:05 — "People have their guard up when they think any conversation is going to lead to a sale at the end... If I was starting a company from scratch again, I’d start talking to people even if I had nothing to sell them”
13:05 — How are you acquiring customers today?
13:50 — The way Customer.io supports agency clients differently
15:00 — Customer.io’s entrance into paid marketing
16:18 — As a CEO, how do guide your CMO to approach entering the paid space?
19:30— What levers are you thinking about pulling when you are focused on growth?
20:30 — Branding and messaging is important. We’re in a crowded space. You really quickly want to give a customer value.
22:20 — “So much of what people consider conventional has never felt right to me and our company”
23:20 — Colin’s decision in having a fully distributed team
26:18 — Customer.io's untraditional approach to fundraising. “We view funding as a tool to get to the next stage of the business.”
28:40 — CEO to CEO, what’s the best thing you’ve done to develop yourself?
30:48 — Why we sleep
31:45 — The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

#10: Kieran Flanagan, VP of Marketing @ Hubspot, on SaaS, Scaleups, and Startups

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 7 May 2019 11:00:02 +0000

If there’s a company that knows the playbook for Growth, it very well might be Hubspot. In 13 years, they’ve scaled to one of the biggest names in marketing & sales and joined the ranks of successful tech IPOs. Kieran Flanagan, VP of Marketing and Growth, is charged with three of the most important parts of Hubspot’s flywheel: acquisition for the Sales product, the Freemium funnel, and the global web strategy. In his career, he’s worked for some of the biggest names in SaaS including Salesforce and Marketo. Plus, he’s helped many startups implement the strategies that power larger businesses.

In this episode, we’ll talk through how startups differ from scaleups, the inbound growth engine that has powered Hubspot’s success, why the funnel is dead, and the reasons more companies should invest in Customer Success.

0:00 Introduction
1:10 useproof.com/personalize
3:35 Kieran's career path to Hubspot’s VP of Marketing
4:23 Why the mission matter for SaaS
5:33 Scaleups are great when you want a new challenge every few years
7:37 What do the big companies do differently than small companies?
8:03 Check out our interview with Wade from Zapier on Season 1 Episode 6
9:12 100% sales are made from something we acquire
9:47 We have the advantage of being able to think 18 months down the line
11:46 How we experiment at Hubspot
13:00 Hubspot’s target persona — Marketing Mary
14:05 Hubspot startup discount
15:08 Going narrow at first is imperative for startups
16:00 Why the funnel is dead
16:40 Most companies are successful on 1 or 2 channels
18:16 Don't be underinvested in Customer Success
19:20 The Salty Six to know Kieran better
20:15 Inbound and Saastock
21:01 ReplyAll
21:10 Tim Ferriss
21:32 The Platform Revolution
22:48 @searchbrat
23:00 Growth TLDR Podcast

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Founder Fridays: The NEW way we build product at Proof

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 11:00:04 +0000

Building great product is everything. Get it right, you'll win beyond your wildest dreams. Get it wrong, and life is painful. I've experienced both. One thing that's been a huge learning lesson as we've built Proof has been how to structure and run our product teams. We've iterated on this cycle quite frequently, and after a lot of failures, we've figured out some great systems to build product quickly and effectively. As a customer-obsessed company, we also have put systems into to place that makes us focus on our customers every day. In this episode, we'll cover everything product — from how we structure our teams to our philosophies on building great, customer-focused software.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

#09: Casey Armstrong, on growing SaaS for eCommerce (lessons from BigCommerce & ShipBob)

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 23 Apr 2019 11:00:02 +0000

Casey Armstrong is the CMO at Shipbob, an end-to-end fulfillment solution that brings the same 2-day shipping you know and love from Amazon to a wider array of businesses. Previously, Casey was the VP of Marketing at BigCommerce, an eCommerce platform with over 50,000 SMB clients. He has consistently acquired millions in net ARR, managed millions in spend, and driven billions of organic pageviews. In short, he knows how to grow a business.

Our interview takes a deep dive into the BigCommerce funnel, covers why marketing is symbiotic with other parts of the business, and talks about why partnerships have been critical to his success. As a leader in the B2B marketing world, Casey also provides great insights on how to think about building out a marketing team. During our interview, he was in the early stages of building out his team after his arrival at ShipBob and he walks us through his mindset.

00:00 Introduction
4:27 Inside the funnel at BigCommerce
5:33 Testing customers vs stock images in paid ads
6:40 Most marketers just drive people to the homepage. Why?
8:00 Native integrations can be a growth mechanism
10:00 How to add necessary friction to your funnel for quality
11:40 High quality data helps marketing & sales teams be successful
15:00 The product is a marketing & sales tool; marketers need to think about the product experience.
16:47 Growing and structuring your marketing team
21:00 Why marketers need to be able to do multiple channels
22:03 The salty six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Founder Fridays: Critical lessons from bootstrapping SaaS (live from Traffic & Conversion 2019)

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 19 Apr 2019 11:00:10 +0000

At this year's Traffic & Conversion Summit in San Diego, Dave sat down with Garrett Holmes, Director of Content at Digital Marketer to discuss Proof's growth to date. This episode includes their full conversation — covering everything from our transition from agency to SaaS to how we used two strategic advisors to power viral growth. The episode is raw, conversational and full of life lessons from our company's journey. Hope you enjoy!

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

Founder Fridays: The most formative books I've read this year (+3 books I hated)

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 11:00:13 +0000

Dave is an avid reader — powering through about a book per week. In this episode, he'll chime in with his favorite reads from the last year and how they've affected his thinking at Proof. Plus, as a special treat, he'll share his 3 least favorite reads, so you don't have to waste your time.

Liking Founder Friday? Have an idea for a topic you'd like us to cover? Tweet at Dave — or shoot him an email at Dave@UseProof.com & tell us your thoughts!

#08: Tyson Quick on moving Instapage upmarket & growing Enterprise revenue to 20% of ARR

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 9 Apr 2019 11:00:09 +0000

Instapage started in 2012 as a SaaS solution for easily creating landing pages at scale. Today, they are a company of 170 employees with 4 global offices, 15k customers, and a whole host of offerings to help advertisers increase conversions through post-click experiences. Tyson Quick, CEO and Founder of Instapage, has been critical to the success of the business. In this conversation, he talks with Dave about the origin of Instapage and how he grew the company into a leading name in SaaS.

Our conversation turned more interesting and actionable as he specifically discussed the strategy he used to shift towards Enterprise customers. These high-value customers have been insanely powerful for revenue growth and the long-term outlook of the business. We hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did.

Audio times:
0:00 Introduction
2:47 The origin of Instapage & where the company is at today
3:46 Transition from landing pages to a post-click optimization solution
5:01 How did you get your first customers?
6:23 Cutting through the noise and turning Instapage into a market leader
7:48 Moving away from being solely a landing-page builder
8:56 The shift to enterprise; selling value instead of a tool
9:10 Moving from no-touch to a sales-driven culture; pricing is key
11:05 My advice? Just get it out the door
12:40 Our magic number is "how much do you spend on digital advertising per month”
13:23 A year in 20% of our total revenue is from enterprise; and 60-70% of new revenue is from total revenue
14:20 People want to keep this secret. Why?
15:20 Investors care about gross margin; if you can prove it with services — do it
17:10 Deliver value in some way for marketers
18:45 The salty six
19:36 SaaStr
20:23 Pocket app for text to speech
21:48 High Growth Handbook by Elad Gil
24:35 @TysonQuick on Twitter

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Founder Fridays: How we launched this podcast & made our first brand play

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 5 Apr 2019 12:00:04 +0000

In this episode, Dave is joined by his first guest, Ben Johnson, the wizard behind Proof's content to discuss the launch of this very show. They'll talk through the concept of the show, the goal of the show, the equipment we use to film, how we book guests, our production process, our editing cycle, our launch strategy, and the methods we've used to scale the show.

If you've ever thought of producing your own podcast — or if you're just curious why we do this every week — this show has all of your answers.

Equipment mentioned during the episode:

Canon EOS C100 camera
Canon 6D camera
Audio Technica ATH-M30x headphones
Aputure Light Storm COB 120B lights
Sennheiser EW 112P microphones
Cayer BV30L tripods
Set from Article.com
Zoom.us for video recording software

Founder Fridays: The 7 keys to why Proof has been successful

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Sat, 30 Mar 2019 04:38:50 +0000

In this episode, Dave reflects on the key reaons Proof has achieved $200,000+ MRR, raised capital through the top startup accelerator Y Combinator, and has built a business he loves with his best friends all in under 24 months.

Key 1: have a technical co-founder
Key 2: pre-sell your product
Key 3: laser focus on niche influencers
Key 4: get advisors to open doors
Key 5: build a moat with brand and design
Key 6: establish market leadership
Key 7: move to a place good for business and family

Also, stay tuned at the end of the show for a new weekly segment: things I like, things I hate, and the product I'm loving right now.

#07: How to dominate a crowded market with brand, customer obsession, and UX — Sujan Patel, CEO of Mailshake

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:00:12 +0000

Sujan Patel is one of the biggest names in the growth and content marketing world. For the past 13 years, he has led digital strategy for clients such as Salesforce, Mint, Zillow, LinkedIn, and several Fortune 500 companies. Plus, he's also an entrepreneur himself — founding WebProfits, ContentMarketer.io, Narrow, Quuu, and Mailshake.

By working with a variety of clients over the years, Sujan has a variety of growth strategies that can take a company from startup so scaleup. In this episode, we’ll deep dive with him on brand, user experience, and customer obsession. We’ll cover pivoting a company, buying businesses, and his decision to run a SaaS billboard in the middle of Iowa. Plus, during this episode, we host a recurring feature, Which Test Won?

0:01 — Introduction
5:24 — Sujan chimes in on trends in growth; “it’s harder than ever to stand out”
7:00 — Buying remnant billboards
7:55 — How to build a brand to stand out
9:15 — Which Test Won?
17:32 — The story of MailShake’s growth
18:22 — Failing to hit PMF and the rebrand
19:26 — What worked really, really well in the early days
21:15 — Marketing before you have a product
22:10 — Buying and acquiring tools as a growth channel
23:55 — The Salty Six

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Founder Fridays: The 7 biggest mistakes I've made while growing Proof

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 22 Mar 2019 17:04:02 +0000

In this episode, Dave gets vulnerable. He reflects on the biggest leadership and company mistakes he's made while growing Proof — blunders in growth, communication, hiring, product, strategy and more! If you're an entrepreneur or manager, learn from our missteps and don't make the same errors as you grow your business.

Also, stay tuned at the end of the show for a new weekly segment: things I like, things I hate, and the product I'm loving right now.

Founder Fridays: First principles thinking & how to problem solve like the smartest people in the world

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:44:40 +0000

In this episode, Dave covers First Principles Thinking in-depth and how he's used it over his career as an entrepreneur. This is a strategy employed by Elon Musk, Ray Dalio, and others — and it's led to many of the biggest breakthroughs of the past decade. After explaining the concept, Dave focuses on exactly how this line of thinking has impacted Proof.

#06: Wade Foster, CEO of Zapier, on flywheels, early user acquisition, and self-improvement on the way to $35MM ARR

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 13:31:42 +0000

Have you ever tried to save an email to Evernote? Fire a Google Calendar from a Slack message? Getting programs to talk to each other without direct APIs used to be a nightmare. And then came Zapier.

Zapier is the solution to help companies set up powerful workflows and make nearly any software program integrate. With their service, you can connect over 1300 apps (and growing) without a custom built hook. The service originated during a hackathon weekend, and it has quickly grown into one of the largest software companies of the decade. In just over 7 years, Zapier graduated YCombinator, has grown to $35 million in ARR, and recently they were named #53 on The Forbes Cloud 100.

It’s also notable to mention that Zapier is structured a bit differently than most businesses. Zapier is a 100% distributed team of 170 individuals scattered around the globe — and they are strong through leaders around remote work culture.

In this episode, Wade Foster, CEO & founder of Zapier, talks with Dave about the strategies he has used to achieve massive revenue and user growth. Their conversation covers early user acquisition, finding ideal customers through forums, building growth flywheels, the split between Growth vs Marketing, failed strategies, and much more!

0:01 — Introduction
1:47 — Why accolades mean the most for family members; Zapier's #53 spot on the coveted Forbes Cloud 100
3:33 — The startup weekend that birthed zAPIer
4:10 — What is Zapier? Where is the business at right now?
5:15 — When people think tech founder — they don’t often think the Midwest. Has being from Missouri shaped Wade's success?
6:39 — How Wade used online forums to spark growth at Zapier
8:56 — “It was the right amount of traffic" — how low volume but high intent users in the early days changed the game for the business
11:22 — Breaking down the Zapier flywheel
12:05 — Growth strategies and risks that haven’t panned out well
14:34 — What do the growth and marketing teams look like at Zapier? Wade explains his thought process while building that part of the organization
15:32 — “Growth has to be a core competency from the get-go”
17:02 — Chief growth officer vs chief marketing officer
18:52 — What’s a counterintuitive thing you believe about growing a startup?
20:58 — The best things Wade has done to improve as a CEO
23:44 — The salty six; rapid-fire questions to know Wade better

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Founder Fridays: Inside Y Combinator — how we got in, what it's really like, and is it worth it?

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 8 Mar 2019 16:15:00 +0000

In this episode, Dave opens the door on Proof's experience at Y Combinator (Proof is a YC Winter 18 grad). He'll talk about why he decided to apply to the notorious accelerator, why Proof didn't get in the first time around, what the day to day at YC is actually like, common misconceptions about the program, and more! If you're thinking about applying to YC or just are curious for an insider's scoop on the program — this episode is for you.

Founder Fridays: Marketing 3.0 & how we increased our demos 54% and new trials 27% by creating delightful experiences pt. 2

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 1 Mar 2019 12:00:00 +0000

The Internet has changed a great deal over the past decade, and it's about time for marketing to catch up. In this episode, Dave continues his talk from last week on why Marketing 3.0 is an era in which every person has their own unique funnel. He explains how his team has used the concept to increase demos and trials at Proof. Plus, he'll give a preview of the new software project Proof has been working on for the last few months. This is part 2 of 2. Part 1 originally aired 2/22.

#05: LawnStarter’s road from TechStars to leading lawn marketplace

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 26 Feb 2019 12:00:00 +0000

After going through TechStars in 2014, LawnStarter Lawn Care has scaled into the leading online name in lawn care. Ryan Farley, LawnStarter's co-founder and CMO, has led the company's massive growth — scaling the business to over 10,000 customers. How has he done it?

On this episode, Ryan will cover the growth channels that have worked for him, why he experimented with biphasic sleep for a period of time, how to adjust for seasonality in a business model, and the shocking insights he's had over the past few years as he's sat at the epicenter of growth marketing. We'll also do a deep dive into his customer acquisition funnel, and walk through exactly why he's built it in the way he has.

This is an actionable episode — we hope you enjoy! Get ready to #ScaleOrDie...

Founder Fridays: Marketing 3.0 & how to win in the Experience Era pt. 1

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 22 Feb 2019 12:00:00 +0000

The Internet has changed a great deal over the past decade, and it's about time for marketing to catch up. In this episode, Dave chimes in on why Marketing 3.0 is an era in which every person has their own unique funnel. He explains why businesses that embrace "online experiences" will win in the long run: higher conversion rates, greater revenue, happier customers... This is part 1 of 2. Part 2 goes live next Friday, 3/1.

Founder Fridays: 7 shifts I've made from marketer to CEO

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:00:00 +0000

As Proof has grown from 3 friends working out of a basement in Maryland to a company of 15 working in downtown Austin, Texas — Dave has had to change the way he thinks. It's no longer a situation where he can work in a silo, he's had to develop systems to better manage and lead a team. In this episode, he deep dives on the books, strategies, and actions he's taken to make the shift from marketer to CEO.

#04: Brian Moran’s secret to paid traffic and massive growth at SamCart

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Tue, 12 Feb 2019 12:00:00 +0000

When Brian Moran was growing up, his father gave him a piece of advice that stuck with him: learn to sell. After playing collegiate baseball, studying marketing, and running two online businesses, Brian launched SamCart, an e-commerce shopping cart software that helps small businesses get their online stores up and running. SamCart made quite the splash — and proved Brian truly knew how to sell — when it turned into a $1 million dollar business overnight.

In this episode, Brian chimes in on why friendships are invaluable when growing a business, why badly performing ads are nobody’s fault but your own, and how he’s designed a new type of signup funnel. Instead of pushing his traffic to a demo, Brian has a genius strategy where’s he’s effectively able to recover his marketing spend immediately, create a high-intent audience, and warm his audience through content.

Listen to this juicy episode to get the full story behind SamCart’s industry-defying growth.

Founder Fridays: Confessions of a recovering MRR-obsessed startup

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 8 Feb 2019 17:00:00 +0000

As a software startup, you can be focused on a lot of things: customers, revenue, churn, or even competitors. The focus you decide on helps dictate both the culture and direction of your business. At Proof, we recently made a paradigm shift — going from an MRR-obsessed mindset to a customer-focused one. Dave chimes in on his rationale for this change, and the initiatives he’s taking to build this focus into all parts of our business.

Founder Fridays: Why core values are your secret weapon

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Fri, 1 Feb 2019 20:45:00 +0000

On Founder Fridays, Dave weighs in with what's going through his mind as he grows Proof. This week we'll cover core values in-depth. Dave talks about why core values are important (even at an early stage), how Proof settled on our 7 values, and why you shouldn't copy the values of other companies.

#03: Nathan Barry, CEO of ConvertKit, talks failed experimentation, the value of word of mouth, and growing his business to $1.2MM MRR

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:10:00 +0000

Nathan Barry isn't the typical startup founder. His company is based outside of a major tech hub (he lives in Boise, Idaho), he's bootstrapped his business to ~$1.2 MM in MRR, and he's as transparent as they come (putting all his financials up online for the world to see).

Find out how he's mastered growth by embracing unconventional wisdom — and why one A/B test almost tanked his signup flow this past year. Our conversation with Nathan covers the two inflection points that dramatically altered the course of ConvertKit, the decision behind switching to a credit card required sign-up flow, and how he's increased MRR using unusual tactics.

#02: Ankur Nagpal, founder of Teachable, on doing things that don’t scale, community building, and achieving 3x growth

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:05:00 +0000

In four short years, Teachable has grown to over $1 million of monthly revenue and last year, they helped their creators sell close to $190 million in courses. One of the most unique aspects of Teachable's story is that their CEO, Ankur Nagpal, scaled his business by following the counter-intuitive philosophy of "do things that don't scale." During this interview, you'll find out how Ankur hacked growth at Teachable using UDemy's API (until he got shut down), how he identifies the best business opportunities, and how he's approaching building a growth team from scratch. Find out why these strategies work for Teachable and how you can apply these lessons to your own marketing team.

Welcome to the #ScaleOrDie nation. Before you leave, be sure to leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, post a comment, or share with your friends! Tune into more episodes at useproof.com/scaleordie and read more stories at blog.useproof.com. Follow Dave & Proof on Twitter — @DaveRogemoser and @UseProof. We publish episodes every week so be sure to check back often for more interviews with the internet’s best minds in growth!

#01: David Cancel, CEO of Drift, on the importance of brand for startups in 2019

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Mon, 28 Jan 2019 16:00:00 +0000

Drift is a company that we've been intrigued by for a long time. In this episode, David Cancel (also known as the uncle, D.C., or the GOAT) gives us his learnings from his 20+ year career as a serial SaaS entrepreneur. He's had five companies acquired (BuyerZone, Compete, Lookery, Ghostery, Performable), he served as Chief Product Officer at Hubspot, and now he's building Drift into one of the fastest-growing SaaS businesses of all-time.

In four short years, he's acquired over 150,000+ customers, grown his team to 250+, and created a new category in the process: conversational marketing. David has a lot of opinions on SaaS, growth, product, and team-building — and if you haven't already gotten the picture, he knows what he's talking about. In this interview, you'll hear about why DC thinks you should avoid in channels that don't scale, why you should throw NPS out the window, and how to create new business categories rather than waiting for the market to catch up. We'll cover brand in-depth and the idea of customer-obsession as it applies to both Drift and Proof.

This episode is packed with juicy content, and we're excited to share our full conversation with the #ScaleOrDie nation. Before you leave, be sure to leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review, post a comment, or share with your friends! Tune into more episodes at useproof.com/scaleordie and read more stories at blog.useproof.com. Follow Dave & Proof on Twitter — @DaveRogemoser and @UseProof. We publish episodes every week so be sure to check back often for more interviews with the internet’s best minds in growth!

#00: Introducing Scale or Die, the new growth marketing show from Proof

benj@useproof.com (Dave Rogenmoser) — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 17:15:00 +0000

In the tech world, if you don’t scale, your business will die. Join our host, Dave Rogenmoser, co-founder of Proof, as he uncovers proven strategies from the growth experts behind some of the world’s fastest growing startups. Who are they?

On Season 1, you'll hear from some of the biggest names in growth: David Cancel (Drift), Ankur Nagpal (Teachable), Nathan Barry (ConvertKit), Brian Moran (SamCart), Ryan Farley (Lawnstarter), Wade Foster (Zapier), Sujan Patel (SingleGrain), Tyson Quick (Instapage), Casey Armstrong (ShipBob), Kieran Flanagan (Hubspot), Colin Nederkoorn (Customer.io), and Brian Balfour (Reforge). Plus, every week, Dave will chime in with a Founder's Friday episode — covering the biggest growth, product, marketing, and management thoughts we're having as we grow Proof.