• Ray’s Podcast: Atheist dies, reveals GOD is DIFFERENT than the way RELIGION describes

• Diary of a CEO podcast episode with Dr. Tara Swart

 • John Barnes Myofascial Release 

Clinicians:

1. Meredith Brunner, LMT of A Holistic Mere PLLC

Call or Text (618)-531-3776

2. Joyce Steward, LCSM of Living Free Center for Spirituality and Healing

Call or text (618)-210-3500 or email livingfree5d@protonmail.com

3. Kayci Combs Lueker of Lueker Bodywork

1. Beth Rule of Intuitive Healing by Beth

Beth@intuitive-healing-by-beth.com or 618-910-8800

4. Eddie Lambert of White Lotus Wholistic Wellness Co-op 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1K1Pm1RJcs/

Whitelotuswellness@outlook.com

5. Lindsay Sudeikis of Omnia Sancta

City of Edwardsville Ward Map

Edwardsville, IL City Council Contacts

1. Chris Farrar, 1st Ward Alderman

Ward1alderman@cityofedwardsville.com

(618)-692-1603

      2. Adam Hanna, 2nd Ward Alderman

         Ward2alderman@cityofedwardsville.Com

         (618)-685-0233

     3. Andrea Miracle, 3rd Ward Alderman

         Ward3alerman@cityofedwardsville.com

         (618)-789-2225

      4. SJ Morrison, 4th Ward Alderman

          Ward4alderman@cityofedwardsville.com

          (618)-558-3062

     5. William Krause, 5th Ward Alderman

         Ward5alderman@cityofedwardsville.com

        (618)-540-5950

    6. Jennifer Warren, 6th Ward Alderman

       Ward6alderman@cityofedwardsvlle.com

      (618)-304-0424

   7. Elizabeth Grant, 7th Ward Alderman

      Ward 7alderman@cityofedwardsville.com

      (618)-917-0243

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

00:00 Introduction and Updates on Thrive Everywhere

01:13 The Mission Behind Thrive Everywhere

02:45 Health Insurance and Impact Health Share

03:32 Upcoming Features and Season Finale

04:56 Catching Up with Adam

05:53 Advocacy and CJD Foundation

08:52 Interview with Dr. Sonia Vallabh

10:53 Sonia's Journey and Genetic Testing

21:04 Challenges and Decisions in Genetic Testing

31:01 Emerging Research in Prion Disease

31:34 The Importance of Prevention

32:15 Challenges in Clinical Trials

34:45 Developing New Therapies

36:41 The Role of the Community

40:17 Personal Reflections and Future Hopes

45:18 Support and Awareness

51:24 Conclusion and Next Steps

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

https://www.optimism.coach

adam@optimism.coach

CJD Resources

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/advocd/event/advoc/

https://www.facebook.com/share/g/17oerMMgfT/

https://www.broadinstitute.org/bios/sonia-vallabh

In this heartfelt episode of 'The Healing Journey,' the host discusses the rare and devastating condition known as Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD). The episode features a deeply personal interview with Adam Bouse, who shares the harrowing experience of his wife's rapid decline and passing from CJD. As Adam recounts the swift and devastating impact of the disease, he emphasizes the importance of community support, emotional resilience, and advocacy. This episode not only provides an educational overview of CJD but also delves into the emotional and practical challenges faced by families navigating such profound loss. Listeners are encouraged to pause, reflect, and honor the stories of those affected by this disease, while also finding hope in ongoing scientific efforts to find a cure.

00:00 Introduction and Personal Connection

02:20 Understanding Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)

04:33 Personal Experience with CJD

06:04 The Impact of CJD on Families

10:39 Interview with Adam Baus: A Personal Story

38:09 Understanding Stacey's Unique Dementia Symptoms

39:09 Navigating Hospice Care

40:59 Making End-of-Life Decisions

41:46 Support Systems and Community Help

43:27 The Role of Hospice and Family Support

51:26 Emotional Intelligence and Coping

57:15 Grief and Community Support

01:04:17 Fundraising and Hope for a Cure

01:13:17 Honoring Stacey and Final Reflections

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

In this detailed and heartfelt episode of 'The Healing Journey,' the host discusses the multifaceted challenges of healing from homelessness, both from personal accounts and community efforts. The episode begins with an update on the host's new business venture, Thrive Everywhere, an online directory aimed at revolutionizing healthcare accessibility. The main focus shifts to an interview with Bradley, a friend of the host who shares his experiences of being unhoused and the societal stigma attached to homelessness. Bradley recounts his life's trajectory from stable living, divorce, and subsequent struggles with housing, mental health, and societal biases. The episode also features a discussion with Lindsay Apple and David Wilson, who work in various capacities to combat homelessness in their communities. They delve into the systemic issues, funding challenges, and the power of community action. The conversation highlights the complexity of the homelessness issue, the impact of public policy, and the importance of local volunteer initiatives in providing immediate relief and long-term solutions.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Update

00:49 Launching Thrive Everywhere

02:42 Healing from Homelessness

04:20 Bradley's Story Begins

08:05 Life Challenges and Struggles

16:29 Living Arrangements and Daily Life

21:59 Community Support and Resources

25:35 Volunteering and Personal Reflections

35:47 Reflecting on Compassion and Fear

36:46 Gratitude and Vulnerability

38:11 Personal Guilt and Volunteering Challenges

40:25 Introducing the Next Conversation

41:20 Homelessness in National Headlines

42:24 Meet Lindsay Apple and David Wilson

43:34 Lindsay's Journey into Homelessness Advocacy

45:50 David's Personal Connection to Homelessness

49:12 Challenges in Addressing Homelessness

53:50 Community Resistance and Advocacy

01:09:26 Mental Health and Homelessness

01:13:35 Programs and Solutions

01:17:04 Closing Thoughts and Call to Action

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

• The normalization and dangers of alcohol in society
• Personal stories of struggle, shame, and growth
• The science behind alcohol’s effects on the brain and body
• Generational changes in drinking habits
• Navigating social dynamics and boundaries when changing your relationship with alcohol
• The power of surrender, gratitude, and self-awareness in healing
• Todd Kinney’s journey: from “normal” drinking to sobriety and writing his book
• The parallels between alcohol, other substances, and marketing influences
• The importance of community, support, and honest conversation

Notable Quotes:

• “What was once an occasional treat can quickly turn into a daily habit.”
• “Sometimes quitting drinking is just a decision to improve your life.”
• “Without awareness, there is no choice.”

Resources & Mentions:

• Book: "I Didn’t Believe It Either" by Todd Kinney
• Nationwide Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting Guide
• Book: "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz
• Sponsor: Thrive Everywhere (healthcare education platform)
• Song: “Easy” by Cowboy Mouth (closing segment)

Connect:

• Find Todd Kinney’s book wherever books are sold.
• Learn more about Thrive Everywhere at thriveeverywhere.com (launching 2026).

Closing Thoughts:
Healing is possible. Change is possible. You are never alone.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review. Thank you for joining us on The Healing Journey!

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

Host: Dr. Kate Oland
Guest: Dr. Carol Beckel, Director of Clinical Education (now Dean of Health Sciences at St. Louis Community College)

In This Episode:

• Tribute to John Barnes:
  Dr. Kate opens with a moving tribute to John Barnes, the father of myofascial release, reflecting on his legacy and impact on the field of physical therapy.
• Meet Dr. Carol Beckel:
  Dr. Kate introduces Dr. Beckel, sharing their history as student and professor, and highlighting Carol’s career path from clinician to educator and now academic leader.
• Home Health Stories:
  Carol shares memorable and sometimes humorous stories from her years in home health, including lessons learned about patient environments, breaking stereotypes, and the importance of cultural sensitivity.
• The Emotional Side of Healthcare:
  Both Dr. Kate and Dr. Carol discuss the psychological and emotional challenges faced by patients and clinicians, especially when dealing with hoarding, mental health, and the boundaries of professional responsibility.
• The Knee Replacement Journey:
  Carol details her lifelong struggle with juvenile arthritis, the decision-making process leading up to surgery, and the realities of recovery—pain, setbacks, and the importance of assistive devices.
• Patient Perspective:
  Insights into how being a patient changed Carol’s perspective as a physical therapist, including the value of empathy, communication, and listening in healthcare.
• Rehabilitation and Recovery:
  The episode covers Carol’s prehab, surgery, and post-op experiences, including physical therapy milestones, nerve pain, and the role of social support in healing.
• Pro Bono Clinic at SLU:
  Carol describes the pro bono physical therapy clinic at St. Louis University, its impact on students and the community, and how listeners can get involved or seek services.
• Transitions and New Beginnings:
  Both Dr. Kate and Dr. Carol reflect on leaving their teaching roles at SLU, embracing new opportunities, and the bittersweet nature of change.
• Holiday Music Recommendation:
  Dr. Kate closes the episode with a music recommendation: "Christmas Child" by Carbon Leaf.

Resources & Links

• Learn more about the pro bono PT clinic at St. Louis University: www.slu.edu/doisy/degrees/undergraduate/physical-therapy-program
• "Healing Ancient Wounds" by John Barnes
• "Christmas Child" by Carbon Leaf (available on major streaming platforms)

Key Quotes

• “He taught us to slow down, to take care of ourselves as healthcare providers, to honor the inseparable relationship between body, mind, and emotion.” – Dr. Kate Oland
• “Every body is different. Your body’s different from mine.” – Dr. Kate Oland
• “If we can make our patients feel heard, it can really help ease some anxiety.” – Dr. Kate Oland

Connect with Us

• Have questions or want to share your own healing journey? Reach out via email at ThriveHealingJourney@gmail.com

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

Kate and Meredith dive into the science and felt experience of vibration: how low frequencies can be felt long before they’re heard, how sound moves through water and fascia, and why bowls, gongs, drums, and tuning forks can help “shake loose” stuck places in the body. They talk about conscious language and ancestral stories—how the words we use around money, fear, and self-worth can reinforce old patterns, and how shifting phrases like “I don’t want debt” into “I am financially free” begins to rewrite our internal script. Meredith describes her approach as healing herself first and then simply holding a clear, high-frequency space so that her clients’ bodies can entrain to that vibration and self-heal, much like how calming music regulates you on a stressful day.

From there, the conversation moves into tuning forks, meridians, and craniosacral therapy. Kate shares how she uses tuning forks on stubborn trigger points to help tissue release more easily, while Meredith explains tuning forks as the “acupressure version of sound healing,” connecting to organs, meridians, and long-held beliefs. They explore biodynamic craniosacral work as a bridge between science and spirit—a way of returning to the original blueprint of wholeness and supporting the nervous system in dropping into deep stillness. The two also touch on research and lived experience around sound baths: why they can initially feel uncomfortable, how the experience changes over time, and how a single session helped Meredith move through post-accident pain that resolved by the end of the bath.

Finally, Kate and Meredith talk about bringing sound healing into real life—private sessions, group sound baths, and in-home events where people often choose to lie on the floor long after the last note fades. They share about their evolving musical project “Hermits Jewels,” a community of musicians and healers who want to use music as medicine, not performance, to spread joy, love, and healing frequency. The episode closes with a heartfelt reminder that sound, movement, and story are some of our oldest technologies for healing—and that every time we speak love, sing, drum, or lie down in a sound bath, we’re participating in the quiet work of rewriting patterns for ourselves and the generations to come.

If you want to contact Meredith Brunner to enquire about her services you may contact her at 618-531-3776.

If you're interested in learning more about the Ancestral Healing course that Kate mentioned, you may learn more about Omnia Sancta here.

Here is an official bibliography created by Dr. Kate Oland if you are interested in reading more about sound healing:

Bibliography — Key Recent Research on Sound / Vibration & Healing

1. Lin, F.-W., Yang, Y-H., & Wang, J-Y. (2025). Effects of Tibetan Singing Bowl Intervention on Psychological and Physiological Health in Adults: A Systematic Review. Healthcare, 13(16), 2002. https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9032/13/16/2002

2. Walter, N. & Hinterberger, T. (2022). Neurophysiological Effects of a Singing Bowl Massage. Medicina (Kaunas), 58(5), 594. https://www.mdpi.com/1648-9144/58/5/594

3. Hauser, R., Besson, C., Degache, F., & Gremeaux, V. (2025). Heart Rate Variability Response to Low‑Frequency Sound Vibrations in Regularly Active Male Subjects. Frontiers in Sports and Active Living, 7:1573660. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fspor.2025.1573660/full

4. Goldsby, T. L., Goldsby, M. E., McWalters, M., & Mills, P. J. (2017). Effects of Singing Bowl Sound Meditation on Mood, Tension, and Well‑being: An Observational Study. Journal of Evidence-Based Complementary & Alternative Medicine, 22(3), 401–406. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27694559/

5. Therapeutic effects of singing bowls: A systematic review of clinical studies. (2025). Integrative Medicine Research. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4035

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

GoFundMe for Tameera's Aunty

The Secret of Life with Dr. Joseph Murphy

Fred mentions that he is inspired by this video, and he tries to incorporate a 5 minute practice into his daily self-care. I hope you consider checking out how our favorite rock star practices daily healing!

Lastly, if you have never seen these boys perform, here is one of my favorite clips!

Light It On Fire! by Cowboy Mouth

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

Gracie Jiu Jitsu Studio Edwardsville, IL 

Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters by Meg Meeker

Transcript:

Kate: [00:00:00] [00:01:00][00:02:00] [00:03:00][00:04:00] today on the Healing Journey, we will be discussing healing masculinity. I have two guests I'm very excited to introduce you to. First, I'm gonna introduce you to my dear friend Doug. Doug isn't just a longtime friend. He's someone I've chosen his family, and he's the godfather to my children.

[00:05:00] One of the things I admire most about him is his lifelong commitment to being a good man and showing up for others with generosity and kindness. Over the years, he and I have shared many deep and meaningful conversations about many things, but including sexuality, gender roles, and what it means to grow and evolve as a person.

I'm truly honored to bring him into this space today. Doug, welcome to the show. 

Doug: Thanks for having me, Kate. 

Kate: So excited to have you. Um, can you do me a favor and just so our audience has an idea of your perspective, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and where you are and the stages of life?

Doug: Yeah, so I'm a, uh, three time dad raising, uh, two girls and a boy. Um, on my personal life. I am a four-time iron man. I love physical fitness, challenging myself to things that I, I think would be impossible without hard work. I love creating, building, um, things with, [00:06:00] whether it be woodworking or painting murals.

Um, professionally, I'm a IT director where I helped build the cloud. Um, so I'm plugged into a lot of, uh, uh, the technology revolution that we're having today. And, um, I'm very interested in how we tackle this topic, especially given that, um, I'm raising two girls and a boy and trying to figure out how we navigate the world of, of parenting, um, especially with the new challenges that we have coming away.

Kate: I love, love the fact that you bring up. There are some new challenges here. I think lately with everything going on in the world, there's been lots of conversations about, uh, masculinity and toxic masculinity and how we can break some of those old habits. So I'm glad you're here to help us. Let me also welcome another friend, uh, Jake Ach.

Jake and I first met a few years ago when he came to my office to get some myofascial release. At that time, he shared with me that he was going through a [00:07:00] divorce and I just remember being struck by the poise and composure with which he spoke about such a difficult season. I was really impressed 'cause I know I didn't handle it that well when I had to go through my divorce.

But from there, a friendship quickly grew, and we have been dreaming about collaborating ever since then. So more recently, Jake launched his own business, modern Manhood, with the mission of helping men discover deeper meaning and fulfillment in their lives. I'm so excited to have you here today, Jake, welcome to the show.

Jake: Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, this is, uh, this is super. It's a long time coming, so, like you said, it's been a long 

Kate: time. We've been talking about doing something together for a while. 

Jake: Yeah, absolutely.

Kate: Tell us a little bit about yourself, Jake. 

Jake: Absolutely. Yeah. So I am a father of three now living life with, uh, my partner Elizabeth.

And we are just going through [00:08:00] it. We're, we're experiencing life and all the chaos and joy that being parents, uh, brings. I'm, you know, building a business at the same time. So things are busy, but at the same time, we're feeling full, you know, fulfilled and excited for what life has to offer. 

Kate: That's right.

And Jake, when you're not working and raising kids, what other things do you use to fill your time? 

Jake: So I'm also a level two CrossFit trainer. So I do some coaching at a local gym and have a ton of fun just, uh, doing CrossFit workouts with a friend, uh, most of the days of the week. And yeah, I love to grill.

I love to play guitar, stuff like that. 

Kate: Huh. Excellent. So, we'll, let's dive in. And I think one of the things that, uh, kind of struck me as you guys were introducing yourselves is that I know both of you are very dedicated to your, the physical challenges that you, uh, engage in. Um, [00:09:00] do you think that something that contributes to your own sense of masculinity?

Doug: Yeah, so I, I, I think I came from, I have a very good mentor in my father. Um, he was, uh, uh, volunteering for children to have muscular dystrophy my whole life. I don't remember a time where he wasn't volunteering. And when I got to be old enough, I got to volunteer at the same summer camp and, uh, I heard from.

Uh, uh, kids at the time, but they were, they were older than me in some cases. Uh, I, I was 15 years old and, and at the time, kids can come in summer camp up to 21 years old. And, uh, these, uh, uh, kids in, in some cases adults had, uh, debilitating physical diseases and, um, uh, they would, uh, tell me that, Hey, you know, they would never be able to run a 5K or do a marathon or do [00:10:00] these physical things.

And, uh, I felt at that moment that I had a, um, I was wasting opportunity that, uh, I was given with my physical body to use it to its extreme purposes. And that set a fire under me. Um, and I think it did help channel some of the energy you have as a. As a youth from 15 to, you know, into your mid twenties where you want to, uh, uh, physically express yourself and prove that you have, uh, worth and, and that, um, you can be up to the challenge for things.

And a lot of times that's not directed, uh, appropriately to things. And so, um, I do think, you know, it, it helped me mature as a person, but, um, really not from a perspective of masculinity as much as, uh, trying to, um, honor the things that I, I, I feel like I was given this world and, and, and not wasting the opportunity that, um, that, uh, and the privileges that I was born with.[00:11:00]

Kate: Wow. What a beautiful tribute to the work that you've done with MDA that I know that you and your dad have been doing ever since you were a kid. That's, that's awesome. Now, more recently, I know you've taken a dive into Juujitsu. Has that, um, framed, uh, your thoughts about. Activities or exercise or your strength?

Doug: Well, actually, um, this is kind of interesting 'cause I think it gets into this whole topic about masculinity and, uh, what it means to be a, a, a concept of a, a boy or a girl in the full spectrum of things that, that, that people can be, uh, born disposition to. It started really with me thinking I am going to be raising two girls, my two oldest are, are girls.

And, uh, hearing from other women talk about how uh, they can be intimidated, uh, scared of men. And, um, I remember, uh, hearing enough. I walk into a boardroom, I'm not scared of any [00:12:00] other men in the room. And, and thinking of that, my daughter's in that position, and when they walk into a room full of men, uh, are they going to be intimidated and would they be something other than themselves because of that?

And so it actually started with me getting the girls engaged and, and Jiujitsu and, um, learn watching them through it. And, um, seeing, uh, girls in a male dominated sport, uh, especially when they're little, there's no differentiation between boys and girls. Um, they, they, they do juujitsu. They play juujitsu, they wrestle together.

And, uh, oftentimes my daughters who were smaller would be paired with larger men, uh, I shouldn't say men, but, but boys. And, uh, watching those boys and how they interact with, uh, the girls and wanting to assert themselves over the girls and then eventually watching them be able to push back and provide, uh, levels of defense and even offense against these.

Uh, boys was, was really, uh, helped me understand who [00:13:00] they are as people, how they deal with struggles, how they deal with frustrations. Um, but then it also realized that I am disconnected from that experience. Uh, growing up I played, uh, uh, baseball and rugby. These are team sports. And, um, I really didn't know what it felt like to be matched one-on-one with a person and having competition be so in intimate like that, having your failures be your fault and own those failures, um, and then learn from them.

And so, um, uh, I eventually got my son into Jiujitsu and then I got into it. Um, and then I thought, it's kind of funny. I thought, well, I'll get into it so I can share this thing with them, but also I'll help coach them. And then I just learned, uh, as I got in Juujitsu, just how good they are and how, how little I knew.

And so, uh, there's no coaching them. They, they watch me. And point out all the things I do wrong, which I, I think that helps bond us a little bit because, uh, although they may see me as their father, they also see me struggle and see me lose, uh, see me win [00:14:00] and, uh, get to see how I cope and deal with those situations so that maybe they can learn from that themselves when they go through those competitions.

Kate: So what I'm hearing is you're trying to lead by example, but you're also seeking out experiences for your girls to grow their own self-worth and confidence. 

Doug: Yeah. You know, um, my, I have my two daughters, one of them who is, uh, older, uh, naturally was, was, was gifted at Juujitsu. She, she just got it and she's competitive.

My middle daughter is not as competitive. And, um, I would watch my middle daughter sit, you know, sitting near feet away from her with a, uh, watching a, uh, a larger boy put his elbow into her neck and put all his weight on her. And to see her start to tear up and me as a parent thinking, I need to step into this.

Uh, I sh I should not be witnessing this. I should be part of [00:15:00] solving this problem for her. But, but holding myself back to think, let's see how she deals with this. And, um, she wasn't able to get out. The round ended and she had tears in her eyes and she stood right back up and she shook the kid's hand and she moved on to the next match.

And I would've never learned that about my daughter. Had I not, uh, witnessed it and stood back and, and let that develop. Um, and then afterwards I said, Hey, let's go talk to the coach. How do we deal with that? What move do we do so that we can get outta that situation next time? And, and now, I I, I believe she knows if she gets stuck in hard situations, there are ways out and there's, there's things that she can do.

And, um, uh, I hope those are life lessons. Uh, those struggles become things that they know when they're stuck in hard spaces, whether it's physical challenges or mental challenges that they know they're, they're up for it and they're, they're ready to, uh, to meet those challenges. Uh, and, and sometimes they just needed the space to go do that.

[00:16:00] And as, as a dad, uh, in some, uh, uh, I need to give my kids room to, uh, be vulnerable and be in those tough situations and learn what it's like to struggle. Um, and you know, that's another thing of parenting is we have to. Uh, put our kids in situations where they do, they will struggle. And hopefully as parents we can do that in a safe way and effective way.

Um, but we shouldn't shy away from putting kids in those situations. 'cause oftentimes those are situations where you learn the most. 

Kate: Well, and regarding the topic today, masculinity. Holy cow, I can't, you know, as a parent, I'm a parent, but I'm a mom to two boys, and here you are a father to girls and boys and a boy.

Um, but also I wanna claim for a second that the situation Doug was describing is my goddaughter, and I'm very proud of her. She's an incredible young woman, but I can't imagine the challenge of feeling protective and wanting to rescue her [00:17:00] while at the same time here you chose to let her learn from this experience that had to be hard.

Doug: Yeah. And, you know, um, to take it back to masculinity a little bit, you know, with my son, uh, he doesn't have those competitive desires and, um, he goes to Juujitsu just as much as my daughters go, and he doesn't really, uh, compete, uh, in Jiujitsu. Um, uh, when he gets in competitions, he can get incredibly frustrated and he doesn't necessarily have the tools yet to regulate his emotions with that.

And so you can watch him just break down in tears and just, uh, the, him getting, you know, dominated physically and then not knowing what to do to get out of it. And instead of, uh, in some ways I can see my daughters well, they, they've learned to sort of dig down deep and, and figure out ways to get out. Uh, my son, uh, becomes isolated and he gets overwhelmed by those emotions.

And so the path that he is taking is much different than my daughters. And, you know, I can almost see in my daughters. They take this [00:18:00] more traditional masculine approach where they want the competition, they want the, the, the, the, the biggest dog in the room for them to go after. Where my son doesn't have that, and I think that's okay.

You know, he, he may develop it as he gets a little bit older. Uh, he's about 10 right now. So, uh, as he grows older, he may, you know, as he hits puberty, he may come into those feelings and those emotions, but today he doesn't have those. And I'm not trying to, um, elicit those things. I think they'll come naturally and it's my job to help foster them when they come.

Um, and I also do think it's good for him, um, to be in these comp, in these, these wrestling matches, these juujitsu matches, uh, with girls and experience what it's like for a girl to, um, really know what they're doing and, and, and get the best of him and then him be able to internalize that to say, this isn't a threat to me.

It's really the sport and I'm learning how to work through that. And I hope that pays dividends later on, is that, um, oftentimes [00:19:00] with, with, uh, uh, being feminine and being masculine, we've recently pitted those things against each other that you, you can't be masculine and be feminine or being feminine takes away, uh, from someone becoming masculine and, and vice versa.

And, uh, those challenges, we need to, uh, figure out how we make those things symbiotic again, and, um, and, and, and not be putting pitying us against each other. 

Kate: Yeah, I think those are some really great points. Um, and, you know, I don't know if I, I don't know if you know this about me, Doug, but. My junior year of high school, I was the manager for our wrestling team.

Um, and it was me and all the dudes. And I, I thought it was fascinating. I really believe that those one-on-one competitions, those are the true athletes that takes grit. Um, but I do remember at that time, uh, it was brand new. There was a girl in the district who was [00:20:00] wrestling and it was the big hubbub.

And you know, as a child there was all kinds of scuttlebutt about what kind of a girl would wanna be doing that. And I, I remember taking that to heart 'cause I was the kind of girl who wanted to do that, but there was no place for me there, you know, and it certainly did kind of affect the way I felt about femininity and masculinity for sure.

Well, 

Doug: yeah. And what's, what's really interesting is having the girls from the time that they were five being juujitsu with boys and girls competing all together. Uh, my middle daughter, uh, went out for the wrestling team and did a season of wrestling and it was very difficult because that sport is not, uh, yet organized to make, uh, to provide the opportunity for girls to be successful.

Um, part of the challenge is, is that, um, you only put up your best wrestler at a certain weight. And so when they go and they go and meet. Uh, my daughter weighed 65 pounds and there happened to be a boy who was a state champion that also weighed 65 pounds. Well, [00:21:00] when you're going to the meet and you wanna win, you put your best wrestler against their best wrestler.

And, and, and my daughter being nude to wrestling, um, wasn't, uh, at that level. And so she never got to compete in a meet, um, unless it was some special exhibition over on the side. And the whole season, she'd go to practice, uh, all week long and go to the meets on the weekends. And, and, uh, and every time I said, you're gonna sit on the, on that bench and you're gonna cheer everybody on, and as soon as they come off, you're gonna give 'em a high fives.

And, and, and she says, you know, why do you keep making me do this? Uh, I don't even get a chance to go. Well, then she does get a chance to go in an exhibition match on a side, on a side mat. When she gets done, there was no one there, there was no one there to high five her. There was no one there to give her encouragement.

And I could see her being dejected. 'cause now she felt like I've given everything to this. She's still learning it. It's her first time doing it. And, um, and it, it really made her feel like she was not part [00:22:00] of, of the team. And it's hard to learn something when you, when you don't feel part of that group.

And, um, so while I, I, I think that was a great experience for wrestling in particular as a, as a ways to go to figure out how they, um, can, uh, provide opportunity for success for, for, for females and in those sports. 

Kate: Yeah, I agree. 

Jake: It is so cool to, um, you know, have that perspective of having kids.

Uh, I mean, seriously becoming a father changed absolutely everything for me. I feel like I went from this place of being, uh, very egoic, I guess you could say, maybe a toxic form of masculinity. Oh, I'm in sport because I want to prove myself. I want to be the guy who, you know, lifts more than everybody else.

That was really the only sport I got into. I got into power lifting, which later led to, to CrossFit, and I mean, the stuff that I did when I was younger is exactly why I was on that [00:23:00] table meeting Kate, you know, because I was doing whatever it took to lift more than the other guy, and it was. Purely, uh, machismo, you know, ego, just trying to make my own head bigger.

But as I've grown, as I've matured, as I've become a father and had a little bit more to live for than just feeling important myself. You know, I started to realize, oh, there's so much in sport that pushes me further. You know, there's so much in sport that teaches me what it is to be in a state of adversity.

Mm-hmm. And you, you mentioned that, you know, it's good to be in these places where you are being stretched, you're being taken to your limits, or maybe even beyond sometimes. And, uh, adversity is a friend. That's what I like to say. And I try to. You know, the, the lessons that I take from sport, uh, from those places where I [00:24:00] take myself to my limit and then find out that my limit was not actually where I thought I it was, and I grow and I expand and I become something that is, you know, bigger than I thought I was before, those are the moments that I can then take back into fatherhood and I can introduce adversity intentionally, uh, in a sort of, you know, responsible closed circuit sort of way to my kids.

And I can watch them and I can say, okay, go ahead and try. I say, I can't do it. I say, go ahead and try. Dad's here, you know, and I gotcha. If you fall, I'm here. And they try and they see that, oh my goodness, I can do it. And that's just such a, a really cool thing because. I read somewhere, you know, that there's this sort of war or battle drive in a man that, you know, wants to defend it, wants to aggress it, it, you know, doesn't really have a place [00:25:00] for the hunting or the battle that it once had.

And so sport is really an arena in which we can express those latent desires within ourselves so that they don't come out as rage or something like that in an inappropriate manner. And we're actually taking that and we're, we're alchemizing it into something that turns us as men into better leaders, uh, who are more capable of, you know, teaching others and passing that baton down the generations.

Doug: Yeah, I think of it as a, I call it manufactured struggle. And, uh, you know, our, our kids are, um, you know, well taken care of. Uh, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're fed. They have opportunities to go to school. They have clothing, uh, they have a, a roof over their head. And, um, you know, I always, uh, cherish the things in my youth that, uh, got me to the point of struggle and, uh, [00:26:00] not all those things my kid kids have access to.

And, and that's a good thing. Like, uh, they're, they're not gonna need to have the, they, they've never had a struggle meal. Like, I don't if you've heard that, like when you're grow up poor and you, you, you're eating what you can because it's available. Um, not because it's nutritious, but 'cause you just need something in your stomach.

They don't have that. And so, uh, there's many ways to do it, but one of those ways to manufacture that struggle is through sport. And, um, uh, how do you handle failure? How you handle rejection. Um, I know it, how it feels to work your hardest and to still fail. Fail. And, um, and, and then that brings a sense of humility and, and understanding.

As to how you approach different things. And, uh, introducing that to the kids, I think has been, uh, just as fun as trying to hit those personal best myself or trying to do my own accomplishments. Um, and so now whenever I'm doing things, I, I do [00:27:00] think, like, um, how am I setting the example? Maybe I, maybe I'm not gonna ever be able to hit those PRS again.

Um, but how do I set the example for my kids as to what it means to succeed and, and maybe what it means to be part of a group and a belonging that can succeed together, um, be part of a team and be part of a community, um, so that, that they know what those communities are like. And, and then I, I know, uh, one thing that may come up is, is, you know, they talk with this loneliness, EE epidemic, you know, in men, but, but also across society.

And, you know, we've lost third spaces, we've. Communities, uh, we've lost the ability to, um, uh, come together, uh, outside of the internet and, um, and I think, uh, sport and, and hobbies in general. Uh, create that space. And we need that for, uh, uh, uh, men [00:28:00] and, and, and young women, particularly men. 'cause it gives those, uh, young men a, a, a way to learn how to fail, how to, I call it, uh, playing bumper cars.

You need to, at a young age, be able to bumper car off relationships and failures and successes and, and have, feel like there's a bit of safety rails so that you're not gonna go completely off. Uh, but those are gone today. And as, as we make mistakes, they're either, uh, highly publicized or they're documented.

And like, I know Laura had, I had, I, uh, had video cameras on me every at bat that I ever took in baseball. And, uh, as I make mistakes or I miss a catch, and all of a sudden it becomes a blooper on somebody's, uh, uh, TikTok channel. Uh, that'd be tough. It, it, it, it isolates you. And so we've gotta figure out ways to create those environments where it's okay to succeed or fail, as you know, whether it's in sport or otherwise.

And that, um, uh, it's, it's all about the journey that we're on and, and, [00:29:00] and how we, what we learn from it, um, uh, versus the, the events that actually had take place. Right? 

Kate: Mm. So I think what I'm hearing is, you know, where the conversation naturally has kind of flowed is we are talking about physical, athletic, uh, sport competition and how those are tools to examine our roles.

And I think we're in this beautiful time. You know, growing up I was a female athlete and that did affect how I felt about my, uh, role, my gender role, um, a little bit. But I we're in this time now where we have. Professional women's sports that are getting lots of traction, and I think that's really great.

You know, um, generally speaking, men are stronger and faster and I mean, that's just biology. Okay. Um, but there's an arena for women and I think that it's great that we have these [00:30:00] female role models out there for the girls to see that there is value and worth in what we're doing. And I, I, I really love that.

Um, another little theme that I wanted to pick out here that I'm hearing from both of you is that your physical challenges for yourself carry over into how you are trying to, um, prepare the next generation with their emotional intelligence. Um, Jake, is there any examples or challenges you have in that arena with your blended family and how you're trying to, uh, showcase to them how to navigate these issues?

Jake: Yeah, emotions, the emotional, emotional intelligence. 

Kate: It is so important we've learned, but man, I feel like our generation is trying to learn our own emotional intelligence while also helping the next generation, 

Jake: right. Indeed. Indeed. Yeah. [00:31:00] I've heard it said that intelligence is really how many times you can chop up a topic and that determines how fluid you can be, how agile you can be in navigating that environment.

And that's really what it is with emotions as well. I think specifically for men, there is a difficulty in navigating that emotional terrain simply due to a lack of vocabulary for emotion. And uh, you know, there's this phrase, name it, to tame it. And I couldn't possibly agree with that more because. You know, I, I actually, I have a background in, in linguistics and when I was in school we did, we read this study and it was about, um, perception and the language that we have.

And we looked at, uh, particular dialect of Russian, which doesn't actually distinguish between blue and green. And when you would put a, a color spectrum in [00:32:00] front of these people, they really couldn't determine where blue stopped and green, you know, ended like where the distinction was. But if you went to particularly a group of American females, they could tell you not just where red ended and pink began, but where it was mov and where it was, you know, these different shades.

And it was specifically, they determined based on, uh, makeup culture and, um, the ability to have so many different shades that they became. Sensitive to and aware of the distinctions. So when I think of emotional intelligence and leadership in my family, for me it's really becoming familiar with and naming my own experience.

When I can start to look at the difference and say, am I feeling shame right now? Or am I feeling guilt? And say, okay, shame [00:33:00] is this feeling of I am bad because of who I am. Guilt is this feeling of I'm bad because of what I've done. Those are very different things, and the way that I've reflect them back on me and then project them out onto the world around me determines the way that I act and, uh, navigate relationships in the world.

So as I become aware of those things, I begin to model them differently in my family. And then because I found them to be very valuable in my life, I can then start to have conversations with my sons and I can say, what are you feeling right now? And usually the answer is, I don't know. Mm-hmm. And if I do get an answer, it's sad, mad, happy, but then we can start to branch out and we can start to get into the shades and the hues of these, uh, base emotions.

And my thought is if we can start that young, then they won't have to overcome some of the obstacles that I did in my second and third decades on this, on this [00:34:00] earth. 

Kate: Absolutely. You know, I think very recently, this is a recent, um, I don't know, discovery in my brain. I don't know, when I was reading about how emotions drive our behavior, it's such a simple Yeah, of course they do.

You know, it's so simple, but it. Took me this long to realize that very strong connection between how I feel and how that causes me to act. Now I have a question for both of you. Since, uh, both of you are men and I'm a woman, I'm wondering, you know, growing up, what was the rules written or unwritten for you in displaying your emotions?

Jake: Yeah, uh, well, they were mostly unwritten, but I think that, um, you know, we received these sorts of messages from our immediate social groups [00:35:00] and also the larger social group around us. And, you know, boys and girls both receive messages about what they're supposed to be, the expectations that are placed on them.

For boys, specifically for me and my experience, I was always supposed to be strong. I was always supposed to be smart. And I, the correlate to that is I was never allowed to show weakness. I was never allowed to show ignorance. Ask a question, betrays me, doesn't it? It shows that I am, uh, not, you know, the smartest person in the room.

So what do I learn? I learn to suppress, I learned to, uh, be quiet. I learned to do these different things. And for me and my, you know, family, I was also kind of taught, don't show anger, don't show sadness. Um, you are the one who needs to hold this group together. You're the one who needs to make sure that everyone else in the room is happy.

What's really interesting about that, [00:36:00] whenever you sort of default to this compulsive happiness is that you start to lose touch with and alienate the aspects of yourself that, um, don't conform to that role. So it was honestly decades of, you know. Pretending to be something and then starting to identify with that, that later had to be deconstructed in adulthood.

Kate: Unlearning, unlearning those habits is the highest form of learning. I have been told by my mentor, John Barnes, I mentioned him in previous episodes, but I think it's so true now. Um, I wanna just touch on a couple things that you mentioned. I think it might be a good time. Before the episode, I was looking into definitions, uh, and the definition of masculinity itself, qualities or attributes as characteristics of men and boys.

And you mentioned a couple, they gave some, uh, five examples of masculine qualities. Number one, strength, right? Two is [00:37:00] courage, independence, leadership, and assertiveness. So just, just keeping in mind that that is, those are some of the examples of what it means to be masculine. 

Doug: This is, this is what's interesting to me is, um.

There's a intersection here that, um, I, I don't necessarily think there's, uh, uh, boys and girls, uh, you know, from, from a gender perspective, it's a spectrum of things. And, um, you may grow up, uh, thinking, uh, or being pressed upon to be a man, right? Um, now you may have inner feelings that, uh, naturally occur that may, uh, validate that, you know, you may, I know whenever I was a teenager, I did feel like I wanted to assert myself in things.

I, I, I felt naturally that I wanted to be the leader of a group, um, that I wanted to, um, defend myself. [00:38:00] And, uh, I wanted to be an attractive mait. I wanted people to like me. I wanted to be in the in-group. And those are things I just felt naturally. Like I didn't make a choice to feel those things. I just felt them.

And what happens in society is how we manifest those things. Then gets, uh, um, directed by society. So you need to be able to, instead of that thought of protectiveness, it gets, uh, um, uh, really manifests as aggression. And, uh, although I, I truly love my dad. He was a great, uh, mentor to me. Uh, he and I had a, a, a bit of a, uh, fisticuffs and I got kicked outta the house because I just really felt like anger and I wanted to let that out, that I'm a, I'm a man and he, he can't talk to me in these ways.

And, um, it was my immaturity, but it was, it was this concept of being a man that was driving that. 

Kate: And about how old were you at that time, Doug? 

Doug: Uh, I was, uh, 18 or 19. Um, and it was, [00:39:00] it, you know, it was a, a period of a lot of, uh, conflicting emotions happening. And, and a lot of it's driven by, I, I do believe driven by, you know, my hormonal changes and.

And, um, you know, you, you, you say those traits that society thinks a man should be. And, uh, I, I do think those are like what we put in this box of masculinity. Um, but we have an opportunity as society to manipulate that box, um, that my feelings of wanting to, uh, have aggression, uh, can come out as, as more productive society as being protective and proactively seeking out people who are, um, put in disadvantaged positions and protecting them.

And being strong means that when you see somebody who, um, is being taken advantage of, or you see a situation where somebody is weaker than being pressed upon by somebody stronger than, than having the strength to step in and be encouraged [00:40:00] to protect, uh, uh, people or, or the concept of the honesty and integrity, uh, of being a man that, um, instead of that being, um.

Uh, this, the shell that I put around myself and I project out in the world that I am a, a great person and I'm honest. Um, instead truly being motivated by, uh, having honest, frank discussions about, uh, who I am and, and how I communicate and talk to people. These are opportunities for us to try to take this societal concept of being masculine and putting them into ways that are productive for society.

And, um, just as we did, I, I think of an example of, uh, bullying. Uh, I know whenever I was in school, uh, middle school particularly, um, if it were bad, I called it gay. Uh, it, it, I would make fun of people and I'd make fun of people because they were different than me or, or I was allowed to make fun of them because they, they weren't as popular or as strong as me.

And, uh, I think really with, if [00:41:00] you look at that example of what's going on in schools today. Uh, kids would never think to call bad things. Gay, uh, kids don't. The, the anti-bullying campaigns in a lot of ways has, has, has worked that kids are more accepting of each other. And, and we can think of that concept of how we progress as society and apply those to concept of masculinity.

Um, so that it's a more pro, uh, positive, uh, statement of these, of these feelings that people naturally feel and gives them outlets to, to, to, to express them in very positive ways for society. Uh, that doesn't diminish from, uh, uh, people feeling that they wanna be feminine or doesn't diminish from people that don't feel either of those.

Um, we can say, Hey, I have my feelings and here's a positive way I can project those feelings on the world. Um, and, and I can stand on my own two feet behind those concepts without taking away from anybody. 

Kate: Yeah. I love that you talk about it being a spectrum, and I think that's something that we are, [00:42:00] it's relatively new to society.

Um, discussing the spectrum of sexuality. You know, in the middle you have maybe a gender, um, you have transgender, cisgender, and everything in between. And I know that some people get uncomfortable talking about that. Um, and I mean, anytime we introduce something new, there is some discomfort. Um, so I'm so grateful to be able to discuss this with you guys because I think these are important things to be talking.

Yeah, I know whenever 

Doug: I talk to my wife, um, she's in a lot of ways a teacher for me and, um, a source of education and, you know, it's, it's, it can be difficult because, uh, uh, we, we both try to be. Feminist and I don't necessarily know the definition of what that means and how to be helpful on that journey.

Um, and it's interesting 'cause we'll have very conflicted conversations where, um, she'll talk about how we need to change, [00:43:00] um, so that people can understand what it really means to be, uh, uh, a feminine and be a feminist. But there's also challenges where, uh, I think about masculinity and I don't think that we should shy away from how young men feel.

Um, we should certainly direct it, channel it into productive ways. But I don't think I should shame a young man because he feels these things. 'cause it's just natural. It just comes out. Um, and so those things can be pit against each other. And I think recently, uh, uh, people have done a great job pitting these things against each other.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, you, you. You have to be a feminist at the cost of being masculine, and you have to be masculine at the cost of being feminist. And we focus on the toxic traits of each of those. Um, and while they're not equal, um, we, we, we but them against each other. And really we should say, you know, this is a partnership and it's a, it's, it's it enabling each other.

And, uh, uh, men who feel that [00:44:00] they wanna be masculine, um, should be enabled to do that in a productive way. And, and women, uh, that feel they wanna be feminists or, or, or even, you know, uh, uh, boys, that, that may feel that way, they should be encouraged to, to do those in productive ways for society. And we can, we have the power to do that.

It's just a matter of being intentional in it. And putting thought towards, uh, when I feel this as, as a certain person, um, what's the positive ways that I can put that in, act in my life and steer away from some of the negatives that could come with it. 

Kate: I'm so glad you brought up some of these points.

This is exactly why I was so excited to have this discussion with you two, because I do consider myself a feminist. I do, and I do think that women have some challenges to face, and we always have had more challenges. Um, but that's for a different episode. But as a feminist, I also have seen this struggle in some of my close male friends with how to be respectful to women, [00:45:00] but also how to be a man.

And, and I do think there's a, like the, you brought up the loneliness epidemic. And I, I do think it's a hard time for men right now because of the evolution of feminism. Um, and I'm, I wanna be clear, I, I support equal rights for, for men and women, um. It's a delicate conversation. I feel myself almost stumbling over my words right now.

Trying to, um, be empathetic to the, the men who are grappling with this. And, you know, I read a chapter in John Barnes' book, uh, the book is Healing Ancient Wounds, and he has a chapter on embracing femininity and how he had to embrace some femininity. And, um, I brought this up with one of my patients who's a man, uh, who works in a predominantly female role, but he is a man.

And he [00:46:00] said, you gotta be careful. You know where I come from? Country Boy, you call me, you tell me I'm embracing my femininity. Those are fighting words. Hmm. But when you get down to the nitty gritty, if you read through it, it's not about being, uh, a girl. It's not about being a wuss or what other, uh, negative word might come to mind, um, to call someone weak.

Um, but it's about respecting within, respecting yourself the dichotomy and making sure to not just embrace feminine or masculine, but creating space for both. 

Jake: I think that you just opened up a, a big can right there, which is truly beautiful. And that's that. Um. Doug, you, you mentioned, and you, you created this sort of separation between, uh, what it is to be a man and what it is to be masculine.

These are, [00:47:00] you know, separate things. And the truth is that every single person who's ever been born, this is the way I like to view it, is completely infinite. We're, we're born with everything. And the ego, the identity that we've sort of created for ourselves is like shining a flashlight in a dark room.

And the thing that we think we are is the stuff that we can see within the glow of that light. And it's going to hit some things that are either primarily feminine or primarily masculine, but it's not all masculine and it's not all feminine. And the truth is, we are also the things that are not in the glow of that light.

And when I view out my eyeballs and I see. That which is feminine, I would consider myself a, a primarily or majorly masculine person. Um, when I see that which is feminine outside me, it's actually reflecting back to me the feminine nature that I have within myself. [00:48:00] It's, it's sort of the d or disidentified nature of who I am.

When we look at the systems that we live in, they have been primarily male dominated. These patriarchal structures have created a, a system that is unbalanced. And so I think a lot of this, uh, you know, sort of feminist movement, what it's really calling out is saying, Hey, there is deep imbalance here. And anytime that that happens, you know, when that pendulum is way too far to one side, we swing super hard to the other and we say, Hey, look, here's the other side.

And ultimately where I think we're seeking to end up is somewhere in that, uh, middle ground where we're saying neither is right, neither is wrong. But both have to be held in balance in order for us to experience a health healthy state in which no one is disenfranchised, everyone is empowered because ultimately, you know, when we look [00:49:00] at.

The nature of masculinity and the nature of femininity. Masculinity is all about ascension. It is straight up. It wants to grow and it doesn't really care how it's gonna do it. Femininity is all about expansion, about cultivation. If we look at a patriarchal system, it says, I want more, more, more. No matter the cost, let's just do it.

If we look at a feminine system, uh, like a, an agrarian society that we used to see, um, in, you know, pre neolithic eras, it was all about goddess worship. It was all about cultivation. It was all about spreading and cultivating. And, uh, you know. Really a lot of, uh, prolification, I, I guess you could say it's all about, um, life.

So the feminine without the masculine is like a womb that will never bear fruit. It's just always going to stay in, you know, sort of maintain. And the masculine without the feminine is always going to [00:50:00] forge ahead with no actual direction. And it's when those two come together that we actually see, uh, fruitful life for everyone.

Doug: And I don't, I think that what, what would be great to change in this conversation is, um. One does not subtract from the other. And, um, men are hurt by the part patriarchal system. Uh, we are hurt because, uh, even though we are, we may be at the steering wheel of it. Um, we are not, uh, competing fairly. We are not growing ourselves fairly.

We're we're doing it out of unjust means, and that's not healthy for us. And, uh, and, and, you know, the, the, the, the more I can strengthen, um, people that feel, uh, uh, dominantly feminine, uh, the, the, the more I can strengthen, uh, men to feel, um, capable of those feelings. [00:51:00] The healthier that person is. And like you said, it's, it's, it's, it doesn't have to be an either or.

It, it should be an inclusion. Um, but, but we've, you know, in the conversation we've separated, we've said, you're, you're, we, we live in a binary world and, and you're either a one or a zero. And, um, I think what we should realize is, is that, um, it manifests in very unhealthy ways, even though, uh, you know, men have been orchestrating it.

And, uh, we, in a lot of ways, we need to be saved from ourselves because we've set up a system that atrophied us. And as, as Kate, you said it's really hard for a guy right now? Well, um, maybe like compared to 50 years ago, things are harder, but, you know, the, it, it, it, it doesn't mean that it's, it's not better.

And it's, it's better for us to, uh, open up and have these conversations and. And, uh, compete freely, um, uh, whether that be in thoughts or, or productivity in jobs and whatever it may be, um, [00:52:00] that's ultimately good for us. And, um, if you're clinging to these ideas that I, you know, the patriarchy is the way to go and this is how we need to function.

And I, I have these, you know, regressive thoughts towards, uh, having these gender roles in a house that are driven by, um, uh, the, the physical manifestation of, of somebody's, uh, uh, sex. Um, that's not, uh, strength to be, uh, uh, that's not strength in being a person. Um, even if you say I'm the man that's not strength, strength isn't, uh, dominating the conversation.

Strength isn't, um, uh, telling your wife that she has certain roles. Um, it's strong to be able to be flexible. Those, it's strong to have, uh, to, to, to follow the leadership of women. It's, it's strong to know when the moment needs it. Um, it's, it's strength to know whenever we need to be in a support role, it's strength to know whenever we need to be [00:53:00] more compassionate or empathetic.

Um, those, that's, that's truly where strength comes from and um, we need to change the conversation in those ways. 

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more on that. Yeah. Right. Really good points. And I think, you know, I just wanna. Yes, I do think that there are some challenging times for men, especially the men like yourselves who are grappling with these ideas.

And I think I'm embracing my feminine nature by being empathetic to that. And just to kinda, you know, come full circle, you know, we, we, we were discussing, uh, femininity and masculinity, but I had a couple, uh, you know, I looked up the definition of femininity and some of the examples of feminine nature include nurturing, empathetic, sensitive, and compassionate.

Um, and it goes on to talk about kindness and supportiveness and creativity as well. But I think these are, um, what we as ACI society [00:54:00] might consider to be more feminine. But I think, like you said, Doug, if we, if we could, um, create a culture where we are all able to embrace these different aspects without fear of judgment, I think that's.

The goal of maybe this conversation, but to start the conversation here today. 

Jake: Yeah, yeah. I think that, um, the way that I describe almost what you said there, Doug, is that I say the ultimate expression of mature sovereign masculinity is grounded presence, and that means presence for the people in my life.

For my loved ones, it means presence amidst chaos. Amidst a storm, it means presence in leadership, in vision, and so often the impediment, the obstacles on the way to presence are [00:55:00] the ego driven, threatened, judgment, fearing male mind that says we are in conflict. If you are the way you are, it threatens the way I am.

And so it continues to forge forward in a sort of compulsive reactive sort of way. And I think that if that ultimate present, that grounded presence is the ultimate expression of mature masculinity, then we can actually look at its opposite To understand the wounds of masculinity, the wounds of masculinity are, um, the need to always be aggressing, the need to always be imposing, the need to always be proving oneself.

And, um, the ability to sit back and to realize that someone being the way that they are, that someone [00:56:00] stating a belief or an opinion that is different than my own is not threatening me, is actually the sort. Pedestal or the, the, the plateau where we're actually gonna find that balance and be able to grow together.

Doug: Yeah, I think there's, you know, the, um, the, uh, constant drive, you know, we can, that can manifest itself in competitive nature, uh, competitiveness. And, um, and I think that, uh, you can get stuck in this where, um, you see this in kids today where if you're gonna do something, you almost have to do it to the extreme.

Like if you're gonna play baseball, you gotta be on the select team and travel all the time. Uh, if you're gonna play soccer, you gotta be on the select team travel all the time. You gotta constantly win. And so we set up these, these, uh, systems where, um, you feel if you are not winning, you're losing. And, um, it's, [00:57:00] uh, life isn't like that.

We know as, as, as older, uh, adults. Uh, we've learned that there's shades of of success and there's, there's success and failure, and it's very difficult, particularly for young men, uh, to be able to see that and be able to put themselves out there. And I think that's also a challenge with today in particular because, um, you know, one of the, the, um, people I've, I've kind of listened to in some of these conversations, uh, Scott Galloway talks about how, uh, what we need to do to help, you know, grow, uh, men and, and continue to grow men.

And one of them is give them avenues to, to, to fail and to learn what it's like to have that rejection. Um, because, uh, life isn't binary, it's not success or failure. And if, if I can learn to deal more with failure, I can learn to deal more with, uh, acceptance. I grow my empathy. I know what it's, it feels like, and then I'm open to have more of those conversations.[00:58:00]

That, uh, that I can be more nuanced in my understanding of success and failure and, uh, and know that, um, the success of, of, uh, feminine ideas or, or how we manifest, uh, femininity in the world, uh, doesn't mean that masculinity loses. I 

Kate: love that. I love that thought, that there's no winning here. There's no winning.

You know, one can't win over the other. We have to coexist, and I do. I believe we need to figure out ways to better coexist, and that's part of why I'm so excited to be having this conversation. So, gentlemen, I wanna know what, right now is giving you hope about the cultural shifts happening around gender and healing.

Jake: Yeah. I think for me, what's giving me hope are these conversations. The more conversations that I have with men, [00:59:00] the more I realize that they are identifying, becoming aware of, acknowledging the fact that there has been a misalignment and imbalance in the way things have been. They may not know the right words to describe it yet, uh, but they feel it within themselves.

They're beginning to watch themselves and their relationships, uh, with the opposite gender. They're beginning to watch themselves in relationship to their children, and they're saying to themselves, wait a second. You know, I, hold on. I, uh. I had to sort of heal these wounds that I had from watching my mom and dad when I was growing up.

I had to heal these wounds from the way that my parents treated me as a child. Maybe I shouldn't impose them on my partner. Maybe I shouldn't impose them on my kids so that they don't have to go through this same healing process that I did, and maybe it starts with [01:00:00] me. And that, that sort of inward focus, um, I think is the beginning of that awareness that breeds the healing.

Kate: Yeah. So I'd like to take a minute, Jake, to talk about your new business. Because I think, is this a good point to interject here? Like so? Sure. Yeah. You know, I met you when you were really pursuing your healing journey, and you know, as I refer you to people, um, to the men in my life, I tell them, listen, you know, quite frankly, Jake, you're younger than a lot of the men in my life.

Um, and I, and I, I tell him that, I say, you know, he, he is younger, but I am so inspired by the commitment you made to do your own personal healing. And I think it's so beautiful that you're using that personal healing to try to help others. Um, so modern manhood, can you, uh, tell us a little bit about how you operate in your practice?

Jake: Absolutely. [01:01:00] Yeah. So Modern Manhood, um, just right there in the name stands in contrast to traditional notions of manhood. Uh, the traditional notions of suppressing of, uh, being that stoic guy that, you know, is just like, oh, it's gonna be fine. Um, that sort of notion was born of a lifetime that required, um, sort of a, an avoidance, a distraction from what it was, uh, that they were experiencing.

You know, we, we are. Children of veterans who were children of veterans who were children of veterans, who were children of veterans. Um, and on top of that, there was a lot of scarcity. There was a lot of poverty that these generations were coming from. So we've been handed, um, tools and techniques for dealing with the world around us [01:02:00] that are from a very different time and age.

It's sort of like Doug, you said your kids have never had a struggle meal. Right. And as we, as a society are sort of growing and changing, um, the tools and techniques have to change along with that. So what modern Manhood really is, is it's a, a movement of men who are saying, you know what? I'm going to be a leader, not just for myself, but for the generations that come later.

And so we do a lot of this work. I do a lot of work with men who are saying, you know, my dad, he taught me that I needed to suppress. He taught me how to, uh, numb out. He taught me how to dissociate. He taught me to, you know, have meaningless sex or to drink my evenings away or whatever it was, just to numb out in front of the tv, something like that.

But he didn't tell me, he didn't teach me how to be present in my relationships. He didn't teach me to be the first one to go into the darkness, even though you've never been there [01:03:00] before, so that you can then lead your kids and your partner through that. And I think that's a lot of what we're searching for in this world is a connection to.

Our essence of who we truly are and a confidence to, to be those leaders into the unknown. And, uh, so yeah, we, we work, I work through one-on-one coaching to help men find that leader, that that true, authentic version of who they are beneath all the roles, responsibilities, obligations, and expectations that society gives us for what a man is supposed to be.

Kate: Yeah. Do you have a quote unquote, typical client, you know, that comes from my, I guess, business background wondering, like, okay, what does your average or typical client look like if, um, people are listening and they, um, are picturing someone in their mind that they wanna send to you, um, what do you think that might look like?

Jake: That's a great question. And it's actually really funny because I am learning that it is [01:04:00] not who I thought it would be. I, uh, you know, you start your, you start a business out of passion like this and you think, I wanna help the version of myself that I was before I went through this journey. So I, I started out and I was like, I wanna find a 30-year-old guy.

He's probably a dad, he's got a great job, but he feels kind of empty. And what I'm learning is that I'm actually working with like 45 to 60 year olds. Um, that is typically the age range where men are saying, hold on a second, the woman that I've been with for 20, 25 years is. About to walk outta my life and I don't know what to do.

She keeps telling me that I need to stop solving her emotions and instead just listen to her. What, what does that mean? And so we'll go in and we'll start to do this inner work to understand, okay man, well what is it inside of you that needs to always be solving? [01:05:00] Is it a feeling that you're not worthy unless you're working?

Is it a belief that you are only what you do and not who you are? Is it a belief that your presence isn't enough? You know, what is that? What's getting in the way? And then also, do you simply just not have the tools that you need? Alright, well let's talk about some of those tools and get you that vocabulary that you need to be able to do this type of work and practice this sort of presence.

So yeah, it's a lot of guys who have, you know, they've developed their career. And they built everything that they thought they were supposed to, and then they didn't feel the fulfillment that they thought they would, or guys that are in relationships that they've been in for a long time that are falling apart.

But yeah, those are, those are the, the primary people I'm working with. 

Doug: Jake, I, I think that's really, uh, uh, interesting. I, I, I was thinking as you're talking through, like, uh, solving everyone's problems and I thought of an example of a mentor of mine who, uh, recently retired [01:06:00] and, uh, when he retired, he had a, uh, uh, a project plan of all the stuff he was gonna do and all the tasks he needed to accomplish and all the things he's sort of been, uh, waiting on for retirement.

So he is gonna, you know, learn how to play the fiddle. And he structured his day and he said, well, I'm gonna retire. I, I need to have a structure to my day so I can handle this retirement. And talking to him months into this journey of retirement, he, he mentioned he had to sort of. Uh, recondition his thinking because working so many years in a corporate environment as a leader, um, it is solving every problem that comes in front of you.

It is, um, creating plans to accomplish things. And, um, while it, it, it didn't manifest as a, uh, masculine thing, that's constant drive validation. It's just how he learned how to deal with things. And he actually had to deprogram himself to say, my value isn't tied to my productivity. That I'm okay to take days where I'm just gonna reflect and I'm not going to [01:07:00] produce.

And I think in, in my own life, I, I come home from work and I've made a lot of decisions at work, and I'm trying to solve problems all day. My brain is on a linear thought process. And, uh, when I meet with my wife and, and we, uh, talk over dinner, she'll say, oh, this problem at work is happening. And instantly.

My work brain kicks in and goes, oh, I need to help solve this problem. It's not because I know better or it's not even a masculine thing that I'm the leader and she's consulting me. It's really that my, I'm conditioned to solve. And, um, and watching my, uh, mentor learn to that, that you've been programmed to, that you've been programmed to that corporate way of thinking.

That MBA mindset of thinking that I need to solve, um, is something we've been conditioned to and we've got to figure out ways, um, as people, but also a subset as men to be able to turn that and, uh, turn it off or, or reposition it so that we're able to [01:08:00] listen, uh, uh, understand and then if needed, take action.

Um, uh, but, but I thought that was a really interesting, uh, uh. Target market that you're going after. Because I see that in my life where people are in those positions where really they just need to be retrained of how to think about their lives, uh, without work or, or maybe they're going through divorce and think of their lives, what's my life without my significant other here?

You know? 

Jake: And it, it is so much of that. You're exactly right, Doug. And then there's this one layer deeper too, which is, you know, you said. We have to reprogramming program our thinking, but it's, it's actually at this like core biological level because, uh, I think it was Chris Rock had this joke and he said that men are the only ones who aren't loved unconditionally.

They're only loved if they produce, if they perform. And while I don't think that's true, I do think that [01:09:00] it is sort of a, a cultural narrative that is easy to believe because men believe it about themselves and what is, what happens, you know, we are deeply, we're biological beings. So if I lose value in my society, then I'm ostracized, I'm cast out.

And at a biological level we learn that that is the difference between life and death. So, so much of reprogramming that thinking is actually reprogramming our genetics to say, Hey. You're allowed to lounge on the couch for a couple of hours and read a book that has nothing to do with your work. You're allowed to play a video game, you're allowed to take a nap, and you are still loved and you're not gonna die.

You know, that sounds really dramatic, but it truly is a message that ourselves are believing when we, we stop solving those problems, 

Kate: those generational wounds, I think run very deep. And, you know, Jake, [01:10:00] you launched your business. It's been several months. It was July, maybe a couple months ago. 

Jake: Uh, it was February, yeah.

Oh my goodness. 

Kate: Okay. So when you launched Yeah. When you, I was so excited because the, there's no doubt in my mind you are the man to do this work and to help other men do this work. And I was so exuberant and so enthusiastic and I was messaging people and texting them about your business, and I got.

Some responses that were almost troubling. Um, just, uh, if someone took offense, like, oh, so you think there's something wrong with my manhood? Like, well, oh shoot, no, that, that's, that's that, that's not what I'm saying. But I think that, that he might've been the one who, the only person who said it. I think some of the other responses I got from people came from that same place though.

Mm-hmm. So what can someone, what, what, what can, what can I do? What could listeners do to help, [01:11:00] uh, try to, um, get someone on your client list? 

Jake: Yeah. Well, you know, it's an, it's an interesting thing for me. I'll speak for myself. Um, and it's that when you are trying to live up to a cultural notion, a societal notion of what manhood is, you're trying to fit yourself into a finite box.

The second that something else comes in and tries to modify that box, it's very fragile. It starts to shatter. And that is sort of this outward projection. We have to maintain it at all costs. We become very defensive of that. So if you see a defense, it's because it's threatening this identity that I'm presenting and it's threatening my own notion of who I am exactly.

But when we turn that gaze inward, all of a sudden what was finite becomes infinite. And for me, the way that I viewed this is that I am not who I think I am. [01:12:00] I am not all of the social conditioning. I am so much more than that. And what it became was an epic adventure. It become, came the greatest adventure of my life.

To find and discover who I truly am beyond all those layers, those roles, responsibilities, obligations that I was conditioned to believe were, uh, my identity. And you know, so much of this. We know it. We've seen it in the stories that we've read, the fairytales, the, the story of King Arthur, the sword and the stone.

You know, there's this moment when something in life starts to feel wrong. For Arthur, it was the moment he pulled that sword out and he went, oh, I'm the son of a king. I, there's something more to my life. Right? It was this call into a different realm, and for so many of these men, if they start to feel that disconnection between their family, if they start to feel unfulfilled by the career, you know, or the bigger house, the [01:13:00] larger vacations, the faster car, whatever it is, what that is is a, a call to look beyond the external world and back into yourself.

And in there you actually get to become that boy again who gets to go as a knight on a quest, and instead of a rescuing a princess, you get to rescue your true self and become the whole version of who you are. 

Kate: That is beautiful. I love that thought. 

Doug: Put that on a poster. 

Kate: Yeah, 

Jake: I did more than that. I, I actually just released, uh, a new course, it's called Finding Me, and I call it a modern day quest because what's cooler than a quest, right.

And it's literally a seven step journey, um, from this place, this notion that I am, uh, who I'm supposed to be into, uh, a full realization of who I actually am, and, uh, designing and creating a life that that person really wants. And you can find that@moderndayquest.com. [01:14:00] Mm-hmm. 

Kate: And we will have that in the show notes as well as any other links to, um, Jake, that if you're interested in.

Learning more about him and his practice. Well, gentlemen, I think I have one last question to throw out there for us to discuss, to wrap this up. And this is the question I think I'm been most excited to ask, but it, it's kind of a big one. Um, but it also, well, yeah. So I'm wondering what do you guys think about the roles that men have in dismantling the patriarchy and how can women help old men more accountable?

What are your thoughts? 

Doug: I'll say, I think, uh, the role dynamic change, we kinda hit on it earlier, is we have to realize that if, um, you do feel this concept of masculine, you do identify with that and, and you are comfortable in that, [01:15:00] then you have to acknowledge that the patriarchy is hurting you. And, uh, we have to acknowledge.

As, uh, as men, as people, and I can take this to other dynamics than the patriarchy, you know, with whether it's racism, uh, whether it's, uh, uh, toxic nationalism. Um, all of these things, you know, as, as Jake mentioned, prevent us from getting to the real us getting to the real you. And, um, uh, eventually you'll learn that by following this dogma, you put yourself into a box that you're gonna be uncomfortable with, and it's not going to be, uh, establishing who you really are.

And I like Jake's take on that, that, um, we need to be able to free ourselves from these thinkings. And, um, I have to, I have to think, um, uh, I believe it's my core that these systems are shackles on us and, um, we need to unshackle ourselves. [01:16:00] Um, and, and although that sounds, uh, uh, you know, uh, uh, I guess two-sided or it downplays, uh, the focus on women, it's really not, I don't think it should be the focus that should be, the focus should be on the women, but, uh, to enable men to be successful is you have to think, um, uh, of freeing yourself.

Um, and, uh, and I think of this with the concept, you know, years ago, I, I really struggle with the concept of white privilege. Like, I hated the fact that somebody would say that I'm privileged. Um, I've had a hard life and, you know, um, I couldn't see all these things that people talk about, uh, as privilege.

And, uh, I wish back then, I wish there was a different word for it. It, it shouldn't be privilege, it should be some other word that, that is out there, that, that talks about the things, um, that, uh, I'm standing on and. Um, I wanna be on a level ground, and I wanna be [01:17:00] born on that level ground. I want everybody to have that opportunity to be on that level ground.

And I have to lift people up to make that ground level. And by lifting them up doesn't mean that I am, I am being taken down. It means putting people together on that level. And I think of that with the patriarchy as well, is we have to seek out, identify where we put people in those holes and begin to pull them out of those holes.

And that makes me a better person because it, it, it, it eliminates the handicap that, that, that, uh, I've put in place. Um, and it's, it, it, it will eventually become, uh, some concepts that men like, which is iron sharpens iron and rising tide lifts all ships. Um, uh, if I truly wanna be the best version of myself, I need to compete against the best version of everybody else.

That is not on this, uh, deficit life, um, that we put people on. And I also have to know that as my life and my quality of life becomes better, um, [01:18:00] that doesn't mean that others are taken back. We can lift ourselves all up together. Um, and so I'd say I, that's probably where, um, I think, uh, men can help themselves out, uh, by understanding they're, they're, uh, hobbled, they're constrained, uh, by the systems that, that our, uh, earlier generations have set up.

And, uh, I also think part of that needs to account for those earlier, uh, systems, generations. It's a whole nother conversation. Uh, I am on the back of everybody who was born before me. And, um, I, we think of that oftentimes as a good thing. Like, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, but, but really, we could be standing on the shoulders of goblins and, uh, we should acknowledge that, acknowledge that there's people that have been in their past that have heard us.

Uh, I have, uh, uh, uh, lots of racists in my family and the generations going back that have done very terrible things. And I should acknowledge that while I, I don't [01:19:00] necessarily know that, um, I'm guilty of all their crimes. I should at least acknowledge that those are there and contribute myself, uh, to doing the best that I can to use the, uh, privileges that have been given to me by the generations before me, um, to dismantle those things.

Um, and, and that way I can stand on my own, uh, as a human and, and feel like I've, uh, uh, left this world a better place. 

Kate: Wow, those are beautiful. Thoughts and I, I'm so glad to be able to share them with the audience. And I definitely think generational wounds are, is a new con, a newish concept that is being talked about in the mainstream media, and that's something I definitely want to tackle in the future for sure.

So, Jake, any closing thoughts on that topic from you? 

Jake: Yeah, just, just briefly. I think, you know, it all begins with self-leadership. I think as a man, um, the way that you can sort of lead other men is by leading [01:20:00] yourself and to begin to acknowledge that the lessons you learned implicitly or explicitly about what a man is, are not necessarily true.

That it is not weakness to be emotional. In fact, it takes strength to actually go to those places and to model what emotional intelligence looks like. Um, so begin with self-leadership. Secondly, be willing to be the first. Uh, I think that leadership for others doesn't always look like doing what they expect you to do.

You know, men listen to other men, especially those men that have proven that they are, uh, respectable. If I look at another man that I respect and I'm just going along and all of a sudden I see him, he, he cries in front of me or something like that, you know, all of a sudden it teaches me at a [01:21:00] deep level, not just an intellectual level that Oh wow.

He feels that too. Because so much of what holds us back is believing that we're unique, that we're the only ones. And so we isolate and we hide those things from others and from ourselves. So don't be afraid to be that model. And then I, I think you asked how can women keep us accountable, um, women. You have far more power here than you could possibly know.

We spent a lot of time talking about masculinity, but femininity. That, that sacred, sovereign, feminine, it, it is a siren for a man. It is alluring. It will take us to places that we never knew we could go. And it will always raise the bar for us. And there is nothing a man likes more than a challenge. We will meet that challenge and we will take ourselves to new places to loop it back, uh, to the very beginning, to set that bar to find our limits.

We will go just about anywhere that that [01:22:00] feminine siren calls us to. So what I would say to women is do the same thing. Practice that self-leadership. Embrace your own sacred feminine, embody it and find that that agency and that, um. That autonomy in and of yourself, uh, because it will make the men in your life, uh, step up.

Either that or it'll filter 'em out. So that's what I have to say. 

Kate: That is advice that I think just is radiating with perfection. I can't think of more perfect advice than for both male and female to look within themselves and embrace what is naturally beautiful. So, gentlemen, listen, I have had so much fun having this discussion with you.

Thank you for showing up and being so authentic with yourselves and with our audience. I [01:23:00] appreciate you. 

Jake: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, yeah. 

Kate: Alright, thanks. 

Jake: Have a good one. ​ 

​

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

Kelly Houston MS, RDN, LD

Confidence Nutrition Counseling

hello@confidencenutrition.com

Confidence Nutrition Counseling on Facebook

Confidence Nutrition Counseling on Instagram

Kelly Houston on LinkedIn

Dr. Stephanie Sprout

About Dr. Stephanie Sprout

About Plymouth Pro-Bono PT Clinic

The Exercise Coach

Omnivores Dilemma by Michael Pollan (book)

Hack Your Health on Netflix

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland 

In the inaugural episode of 'The Healing Journey,' host Dr. Kate Oland, introduces herself and discusses her initial inspiration for starting the podcast. She talks about her background as a holistic physical therapist and a university anatomy and physiology instructor, explaining her deep interest in myofascial release and holistic healing. Dr. Oland also shares personal insights into her journey of healing from an eating disorder, the role of faith in her healing process, and the importance of self-acceptance. The episode features an in-depth conversation with Dr. Ben Hite, her dentist and a private practice owner, who contrasts the differences between corporate and private dental practices. They discuss the importance of personalized care, the evolving nature of the dental industry, and the benefits of innovative dental techniques such as sedation and implant technology for patients with dental anxiety. This episode offers listeners a comprehensive look at various dimensions of healing and dental wellness, aiming to foster a more unified and empathetic approach to health.

00:00 Introduction to The Healing Journey

00:31 Inspiration Behind the Podcast

02:21 Mission and Scope of The Healing Journey

03:02 Personal Healing Journey

04:42 Defining Healing

05:34 Healing the Inner Child

07:04 Faith and Healing

10:13 Music as a Form of Healing

11:25 Healing from Food

21:46 Interview with Dr. Ben Heit

33:29 Building a Strong Team Culture

33:50 Transitioning to Private Practice

34:40 Challenges of Running a Smaller Practice

35:12 The Importance of Office Design

37:46 Investing in Education and Technology

42:59 The Benefits of Sedation Dentistry

44:51 Full Arch Implants Explained

48:06 Corporate vs. Private Practice

52:44 The Future of Private Practice Dentistry

54:38 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Media mentioned in podcast:

Reviving Ophelia (book) by Mary Pipher

The Omnivores Dilemma (book) by Michael Pollan

The A&P Professor (podcast) Hosted by Dr. Kevin Patton: https://theapprofessor.org/podcast-episode-152.html

Resources for Eating Disorders:

There are several reputable public resources for individuals dealing with an eating disorder, including hotlines, support groups, and educational materials. Here are some options:

National & International Organizations:

• National Eating Disorders Association (NEDA) – nationaleatingdisorders.org
• Eating Disorders Hope – eatingdisorderhope.com
• National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders (ANAD) – anad.org
• F.E.A.S.T (Families Empowered and Supporting Treatment of Eating Disorders) – feast-ed.org

Crisis Support & Hotlines:

• Crisis Text Line – Text "NEDA" to 741741 (for 24/7 crisis support).
• SAMHSA’s National Helpline – Call 1-800-662-HELP (4357) for confidential referrals and treatment options.
• Butterfly Foundation (Australia) – butterfly.org.au | Call 1800 33 4673 (for Australians).

Online Support Groups & Forums:

• NEDA Online Support Groups – Support Groups
• Reddit’s r/EatingDisorders – A peer-support community. (Note: Not a replacement for professional help.)
• Recovery Record App – A mobile app for tracking recovery and connecting with therapists.

Musical Intro (Comfort) and Outro (Red Punch, Green Punch)  by Carbon Leaf

Voice Intro and Outro by Marcel Brown, my IT guy with a sexy voice.

Executive Producer: Jake Sebok

Producer: Sarah Bland