At Sea with Justin McRoberts

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Why We Stopped Waiting (and What It’s Costing Us)

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 5 Dec 2025 12:00:00 +0000

• Why “waiting” feels harder now than it did a decade ago

• What Arcade Fire’s “We Used to Wait” reveals about our relationship to speed

• The spiritual value of slowness—especially during Advent

• How desire clarifies identity rather than feeding consumption

• A practical invitation: choose something you want, pause before getting it, and explore the desire beneath the desire

• Reading from In the Low on longing, disappointment, and hope

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

The Hidden Danger of Shortcuts

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 6 Nov 2025 12:00:00 +0000

The false promise of “instant clarity” and “quick fixes.”

Why bypassing struggle stunts real growth.

How to use AI and psilocybin responsibly—without losing your humanity.

The value of failure, pain, and disillusionment.

Reflections from In the Low by Justin McRoberts & Scott Erickson on living fully in difficult seasons.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Imagination, Work, and What Really Matters

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 18 Sep 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Encouraging imagination in children: why participation beats restriction.
Work transitions: how to discern whether to push harder where you are or look for something new.
Why Justin doesn’t comment on celebrity-centered current events, and what’s at stake when we confuse spectacle with real importance.
Closing with a prayer from In the Low (October 2025 release with Scott Erickson).

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Navigating Rejection, Overwhelm, and Authenticity

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 28 Aug 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Justin shares gratitude for support after a recent car accident.

Listener questions addressed:

- How to reconnect during seasons of rejection and disconnection.
- Managing the overwhelm of life’s constant demands.
- Practicing transparency without sharing every detail.

Insights from the Ignatian spiritual tradition on consolation and desolation.

The importance of paying attention to your own needs and desires.

Learning to say no to external demands and focus on what matters most.

Setting healthy boundaries in relationships and public life.

Actionable advice: Spend time with a coach or spiritual director, learn to disappoint unhealthy systems, and discern appropriate levels of transparency.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Grieving the End, Embracing the New

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 9 Aug 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Justin shares personal stories about his kids starting a new school year and the emotions that come with it.

The myth of “creative block” and what it’s really about.

How the Sabbath helps process endings and prepare for new seasons.

Distinguishing between wisdom and fear when making choices.

Why calling is more about who you’re becoming than choosing perfectly.

Closing with an excerpt from Justin’s upcoming book with Scott Erickson.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Permission to Change: Silence, Resistance, and Becoming

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Main Question: How to explain your need for a day of silence to family and friends

Resistance: Often comes from good people and deserves thoughtful communication

Making a Plan: Plans stick; impulses fade

Calendar as a Tool: Helps visualize trade-offs and negotiate responsibly

Life Built by Consent: Recognizing past choices and agreements as part of transformation

Coaching and Investment: Why hiring a coach signals seriousness about change

Invitation to Others: Change can become a witness to more life for everyone

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Being Real, Growing On Purpose, and Feeling Your Feelings

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 24 Jul 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Episode Notes:

Authenticity in Art: You're a real artist if you’re doing the work—regardless of metrics or recognition.

Internal Metrics for Growth: Choose your own measures of progress and satisfaction.

Emotional Expression: Not every feeling needs to be shared online. Say less. Process more.

Derek Sivers Insight: Sometimes saying your plans out loud gives you the reward without doing the work.

New Book Preview: Reading from In the Low, a prayer book for seasons of depression (releasing Oct 7, 2025).

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Change, Prayer, and Who We Are

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 17 Jul 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Handling Change: Embracing unpredictability through the lens of the welcoming prayer

Prayer and Action: Why a true prayer life leads to action, and how activism should drive us back to prayer

Identity and Memory: The myth of hyper-individuality and why our identity is held collectively—by others and by God

Resources Recommended:

Contemplation in a World of Action by Thomas Merton

The Active Life by Parker Palmer

Closing Poem: A meditation on friendship as one of life’s most valuable treasures

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Legalism, Loss, and Learning to Carry What Hurts

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 10 Jul 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Episode Notes:

Legalism vs. Values: Legalism is a rigid, unchanging posture; values evolve with evidence and relationship.

Processing Group Hurt: Don’t rush past collective wounds; learn to carry them together.

Contemplative Prayer: Prayer as receptivity and openness, not productivity.

Caring for a Terminally Ill Friend: Let them teach you; honor their humanity without rushing to fix or control.

Closing: A reading from Justin’s forthcoming book with Scott Erickson.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Unity, Motivation, and the Art of Showing Up

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 1 Jul 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Episode Notes:

Fostering unity in politically split churches:
Use group-based creative projects and shared reflection (like Lectio Divina).

Staying motivated:
You don’t have to feel motivated—learn to work without it.

Breaking conflict cycles:
Let go of the need to win. Signal that the relationship means more than the argument.

Navigating hard conversations:
Only have them with people you trust. Be honest about why it's hard.

Sticking to creative/spiritual routines:
Go small and consistent. Add complexity only after habits feel natural.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Entering Back In

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 2 Apr 2025 11:00:00 +0000

Listener Question: How do I stay engaged with a broken or compromised system?

Coaching Insight: The answer depends on context—but it starts with deciding if you want to engage

Hero’s Journey Framework: Crisis, the low point, perspective, and the invitation to re-enter

Temptation of Distance: Why staying detached can feel safe but keeps us isolated

The Cost of Return: Re-engaging means risking hurt again—but also invites growth

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:00:00 +0000

Introduction: The widespread struggle with overwhelm
Why We Feel Overwhelmed: Taking in too much information
Emotional Impact: The humbling and frustrating nature of feeling overwhelmed
Personal Stories: Examples of individuals struggling with prioritization
Practical Advice: How to focus on what's within your control
Building Patterns of Care: Creating sustainable habits to combat overwhelm
Encouragement: Why your unique contribution to the world matters
Closing Thoughts: Developing a life where overwhelm doesn’t derail progress

👉 Interested in diving deeper? Reach out to Justin for one-on-one coaching opportunities.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Church Hurt, Boundaries, and Spiritual Growth

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 26 Nov 2024 12:00:00 +0000

Podcast Show Notes:

Introduction: Justin McRoberts introduces the episode, its themes, and his approach to answering listener questions.
Question 1: How to create spiritual practices after leaving a hurtful church environment:
- Importance of spiritual direction and coaching.
- Rebuilding trust in community and relinquishing control in spiritual growth.
- The role of forgiveness in healing and moving forward.
Question 2: Maintaining healthy boundaries in nonprofit and religious work:
- Reframing the meaning of work as an internal and relational experience.
- Practical tips for setting boundaries and balancing expectations.
Question 3: Why evangelicals are converting to Catholicism:
- Exploring the desire for deeper, less experience-driven spiritual practices.
- The maturation process in faith and the appeal of liturgical traditions.
Closing: Justin invites listeners to submit future questions and reflects on the ongoing value of this conversational format.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Navigating Politics in Public

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 12 Nov 2024 14:45:00 +0000

Show Notes:

Introduction to the episode and the season’s Q&A format
Background on Justin’s previous online engagement in political conversations
Emotional and financial costs of discussing divisive topics on social media
Reflection on the neutrality (or lack thereof) of social media platforms
Reference to Johann Hari's book Stolen Focus and its insights on attention
The impact of online platforms on our ability to empathize and listen
Justin’s journey with the decision to step back from digital political discussions
Encouragement to shift political conversations to small, in-person settings
Justin's view on the limitations of online platforms for fostering meaningful discourse
Final thoughts on reclaiming human-centered dialogue in an increasingly digital world

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jubilee 2024 - Charles Chaz Smith

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 29 Oct 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Show Notes:

0:02 – Introduction to the Jubilee conversation series
1:21 – Chaz Smith’s journey from the East Coast to Los Angeles
3:43 – Discovering a love for storytelling and film
5:56 – Transitioning from social media comedy to a Bible-based animated web series
7:12 – Navigating comparison on social media platforms
9:30 – The challenge of content creation vs. finding rest and balance
13:58 – Wrestling with calling and creative freedom as a Christian
15:11 – Misconceptions about talents, gifts, and biblical interpretation
21:07 – The importance of rest and establishing healthy rhythms
23:30 – Avoiding burnout and learning to say yes to wholeness
25:55 – Letting go of unfinished work and embracing grace
26:26 – Closing thoughts on redefining success and finding joy in the process

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jubilee 2024 - Claude Atcho

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 22 Oct 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Show Notes:

00:02 – Introduction to the episode by Justin McRoberts
01:24 – Claude discusses his background in literature and how he uses it to engage faith communities
04:50 – The balance between writing for oneself and writing for an audience
06:45 – Influence of early conversations and figures in Claude’s life on his perspective of black history
10:00 – The importance of African American literature and Toni Morrison’s Beloved
14:20 – The power of literature to create empathy and broaden perspectives
19:30 – Why black stories matter beyond the merit system
23:45 – The concept of hope in black narratives and the role of progress
27:00 – Endurance versus healing: A reflection on Christian hope
30:00 – How Paul’s endurance in ministry serves as an example of hope for believers
32:00 – Books Claude is currently reading: Silence by Shusaku Endo and Underworld by Don DeLillo
33:00 – Closing thoughts and reflections on the transformative power of literature and faith

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jubilee 2024 - Dr. Elissa Yukiko Weichbrodt

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 15 Oct 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Show Notes:

[00:02] Introduction by Justin McRoberts – The importance of the Jubilee Conference and its connection to faith, art, and wisdom.
[02:29] Elissa Weichbrodt’s background in art and faith – Growing up with a passion for art and balancing that with her Christian faith.
[03:45] Discovering theology that embraces both art and faith – Introduction to Calvin Seerveld and Hearts and Minds.
[04:49] Encountering discomfort in contemporary art – The role of art in challenging us and making us confront our own blind spots.
[06:00] The importance of slowing down in art and life – How art teaches us patience and attentiveness in all areas.
[10:43] The risk and beauty of interpretation – Why it’s essential to allow room for personal interpretation of art and how it exposes our inner selves.
[13:54] What makes art “good”? – A discussion on what defines “good” art and how it can evoke deep responses.
[19:57] Engaging with complex cultural narratives through art – How Elissa navigates the intersection of art, culture, and spirituality.
[21:44] Final thoughts – Encouraging deeper engagement with art as a practice that builds relationships with oneself, others, and God.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jubileee 2024 - Abe Cho

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Abe Cho) — Tue, 8 Oct 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Episode Notes:

Introduction by Justin McRoberts:

Overview of the podcast's shift towards deeper, direct conversations with key voices from the Jubilee Conference.
The value of gaining wisdom and perspective from experienced speakers and leaders.

Balancing Ministry and Personal Life:

Discussion of being an introverted leader while balancing public speaking, pastoral responsibilities, and personal time.
Navigating 25+ years of pastoral ministry and the reevaluation of what ministry should look like beyond the upfront work.

Defining Home and Navigating Cultural Identity:

Speaker shares his experience growing up in various places, moving often, and the sense of finding "home" in New York City.
Reflects on the diversity of the city and raising children in an urban environment, with discussions on how cultural background shapes experiences.

Justice and Reconciliation:

The distinction between different types of justice—retributive and righteousness (relational).
The complexity of justice beyond legalities, emphasizing Shalom (peace) and interconnected relationships.
The challenge of genuine reconciliation, not just forgiveness, and the need for restorative practices that involve truth-telling, power-sharing, and repair.

Importance of Cities in the Context of Faith:

Exploration of why cities play a unique and crucial role in the Christian mission.
The influence of global migration and how cities foster diversity and connection, presenting opportunities for spiritual renewal.
Reflection on how city-based ministry influences global movements and can serve as a model for smaller communities.

Challenges and Opportunities for the Western Church:

The post-Christian context of the West and how it differs from pre-Christian societies.
The idea that resources and insights needed for the American church may come from learning from the global church and marginalized communities.

Closing Reflections:

Encouragement to see the kingdom of God through the margins and to recognize the value in learning from diverse perspectives.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Rethinking Sabbath Rest and the Misuse of Deconstruction

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 20 Sep 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Episode Notes:

Introduction:

Justin reflects on the shift in the podcast's format, now focusing on direct listener questions related to life, faith, creativity, and leadership.

Sabbath-Keeping:

Question: How do you build a Sabbath day?
Justin shares his personal history of practicing Sabbath, noting that it's a flexible and evolving practice rather than a rigid set of tasks.
He emphasizes the importance of regularly setting aside time for rest and reflection, allowing the Sabbath to become an opportunity to connect with God and assess one's soul.
He encourages listeners to work with a coach or spiritual director to reflect on what worked and didn't during their Sabbath practice.

Deconstruction Misuse:

Question: Thoughts on deconstruction and its current cultural use?
Justin critiques the modern misuse of the word "deconstruction," explaining its philosophical roots in Jacques Derrida's work.
He challenges the idea that deconstruction is simply changing one's mind or evolving beliefs, arguing instead that it represents a deeper shift in worldview where meaning is questioned.
Justin also warns against disparaging one's past self or experiences during personal growth, calling for more grace in navigating maturity.
He closes by explaining that true deconstruction is a posture and a way of interpreting the world, not a phase to be completed.

Closing Remarks:

Justin encourages listeners to submit more questions via Instagram and teases future faith, creativity, and leadership topics.
He thanks his Patreon supporters and invites others to join the team.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Navigating Grief and Loneliness: Insights on Self-Care and Leadership

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 5 Sep 2024 13:00:00 +0000

In this episode of the At Sea Podcast, host Justin McRoberts discusses the podcast's shift towards direct conversations. He shares insights on various topics, including self-care as a parent, the distinction between loneliness and solitude, and leadership lessons as his faith has evolved. Justin answers questions from his Instagram followers on managing grief and finding stillness as a parent, moving from loneliness to solitude, and his biggest leadership lessons.

00:00 Introduction to the At Sea Podcast

00:59 Transition to Direct Conversations

01:57 Addressing Listener Questions

02:04 Finding Stillness and Moving Through Grief

02:46 The Balance Narrative in Parenting

05:40 Redefining Stillness and Self-Care

08:07 From Loneliness to Solitude

13:14 Leadership Lessons and Faith Evolution

16:27 Closing Remarks and Support

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Letting Go, Grieving, and Embracing What's Next

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 22 Aug 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Episode Notes:

Introduction:

Justin McRoberts continues the Q&A format, focusing on questions that matter most to his listeners.
Discussion on why the podcast shifted from interviews to a more direct engagement with the audience.

Key Topics Covered:

From Busyness to Fulfillment:

The importance of distinguishing between a busy schedule and a fulfilling one.
How to prioritize activities that resonate with your soul and bring genuine satisfaction.
Tips on using downtime to reassess and reorganize your schedule for greater fulfillment.

Navigating Change and Spiritual Growth:

How to connect with God when traditional practices and tools no longer resonate.
The cultural shift in how we experience and express spirituality, mainly through music.
The idea is that outgrowing old practices is a sign of spiritual maturity and growth.

The Importance of Grieving Deeply:

Grief is necessary for letting go of the past and making space for the future.
How to embrace grief fully to prevent it from lingering and hindering personal growth.
The connection between grief and the ability to experience joy and hope in new seasons.

When to Persevere and When to Let Go:

How to discern whether to continue or end a project, relationship, or situation.
The role of joy as a metric for making these decisions.
Encouragement to seek coaching or therapy when facing these challenging decisions.

Closing Remarks:

Justin shares updates on upcoming book releases, including his collaboration with Scott Erickson and his new collection of poems and prayers, "In Rest."
Encourages listeners to continue submitting questions and engaging with the podcast.

This episode is rich with practical advice and profound reflections on how to live a more intentional and spiritually grounded life, making it a must-listen for anyone navigating the complexities of modern life.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Community, Faith, and Perseverance

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 15 Aug 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Join host Justin McRoberts on this unique episode of the At Sea Podcast, where he engages directly with viewers' questions. Learn about the importance of community in religious practice, authentically sharing one's faith, and discerning when to persevere or move on from a project or relationship. Tune in for deep reflections on belonging, leadership, and living a joyous life.

00:00 Introduction to the At Sea Podcast

01:03 New Podcast Format: Q&A Sessions

01:58 Question 1: The Importance of Church Community

07:57 Question 2: Tips on Sharing Your Faith

11:38 Question 3: When to Persevere or Let Go

18:51 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Spirituality, Deep Work, and Meaningful Debates

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 10 Aug 2024 14:00:00 +0000

In this episode of the At Sea Podcast, host Justin McRoberts turns the focus inward, addressing audience questions in a traditional Q&A format. He discusses finding a new connection with God post-untangling, tips for achieving deep work amid distractions, recognizing when it's time for a new chapter in life, and balancing arguments with interpersonal relationships. Justin provides personal insights and practical advice on spirituality, productivity, change, and valuing relationships over winning debates. Tune in for a deep and thoughtful conversation aimed at enriching your personal and spiritual journey.

00:00 Welcome to the NC Podcast
00:22 Transition to Q&A Format
01:29 Finding Connection with God After Untangling
04:42 Getting Deep Work Done Amidst Distractions
07:45 Knowing When It's Time for a New Chapter
10:48 Balancing Arguments and Relationships
15:09 Closing Remarks and Invitation for Questions

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Navigating Big Decisions

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 19 Jul 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Justin comes to you from the beautiful Young Life Woodleaf property, sharing his thoughts and insights amidst the serene setting of nature. This week, Justin dives deep into listener questions, offering profound advice on discernment, balancing suffering with hope, and the cultural movement of deconstruction.

Key Topics Covered:

🔹 Discernment and Decision-Making:

How to make significant life decisions with clarity and intention.
The importance of giving yourself time and space to let your subconscious and spiritual insights emerge.

🔹 Balancing Suffering and Hope:

Embracing seasons of grief, frustration, and anger without rushing through them.
Finding hope and maintaining a forward-looking perspective even during difficult times.

🔹 The Courage to Build: Beyond Deconstruction:

Critique of the deconstruction movement and the need for a more courageous approach.
Encouraging the creation of new ideas and solutions rather than just pointing out flaws.

Listener Questions Answered:

Do you have a specific process or questions for discernment when making a decision?
Who benefits most from executive coaching, and at what point in one's career is it best?
What is your way of balancing suffering and hope?
What is your main criticism of deconstruction?

Justin's responses are both thoughtful and practical, offering actionable advice for those navigating similar challenges.

Stay Connected:

Website: JustinMcRoberts.com
Patreon: Support the podcast and get exclusive content at Patreon.com
Coaching: Interested in personalized coaching? Visit Justin's website to book a session and start your journey toward a more intentional life.

Join the Conversation: If you have questions or topics you'd like Justin to address in future episodes, leave a comment or reach out via Instagram.

👍 Like, Comment, and Subscribe to stay updated with the latest episodes!

#AtSeaPodcast #JustinMcRoberts #DecisionMaking #SufferingAndHope #Deconstruction #Coaching #PersonalGrowth #Leadership

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Listener Q&A on Art, Religion, and Leadership

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 11 Jul 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In this engaging episode, host Justin McRoberts introduces a fresh format where he directly answers listener questions from his popular Instagram Q&A sessions. Moving away from traditional interviews, Justin dives deep into the topics that matter most to his audience, providing insightful, practical advice.

Key Highlights:

🔹 New Podcast Direction: Justin explains the shift to a more interactive and personal podcast format, focusing on direct engagement with his audience.

🔹 Physical Movement & Emotional Well-being: Discover the correlation between physical activity and mental/emotional clarity. Justin emphasizes the importance of engaging your whole person for holistic health.

🔹 Self-Forgiveness & Accountability: Learn how accountability is crucial to self-forgiveness. Justin discusses the importance of naming and acknowledging mistakes to prevent feelings of shame and promote personal growth.

🔹 Balancing Creativity & Parenting: Addressing the challenge of managing creative pursuits while raising young children, Justin debunks the myth of balance and advocates for prioritization based on life's seasons.

🔹 Overcoming Fear & Motivation: Understand how fear can keep creative ideas stuck in your mind. Justin encourages vocalizing and sharing your aspirations to receive support and overcome resistance.

Don't miss this episode if you seek insightful advice on art, religion, leadership, and personal growth.

📬 Got a question for Justin? Please leave it in the comments, or join his next Instagram Q&A session!

🔗 Connect with Justin: Visit JustinMcRoberts.com for more resources and to book personalized coaching sessions.

👍 Like, Comment, and Subscribe to stay updated with the latest episodes!

#AtSeaPodcast #JustinMcRoberts #PersonalGrowth #Leadership #Creativity #Parenting #SelfForgiveness #QandA

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

New Season Intro

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 28 Jun 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Join Justin McRoberts for a fresh and engaging chapter of the At Sea Podcast! After many years of evolving and connecting with our amazing listeners, we're excited to bring you a season focused on your questions, stories, and journey.

This season, we'll dive into what truly matters to you, offering insightful conversations on art, religion, leadership, and more. 📚💡 Whether you're a longtime listener or just joining us, you'll find thought-provoking discussions every week.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 13 & Wrap Up

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 24 Jun 2024 11:00:00 +0000

Dive into this engaging episode of the At Sea Podcast with Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy as they explore the radical concept of Sabbath as a rebellion against the systems that drain us and discover how embracing rest can revolutionize our personal and professional lives. Tune in for a compelling discussion on navigating resistance and finding joy in authenticity. Don't miss out—press play for a journey into reclaiming your time and energy!

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 12 - I'm Not Running to Win

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 4 Apr 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy discuss Chapter 12 of the book 'Sacred Strides' titled 'I'm Not Running to Win.' They explore the importance of recognizing the dangers of exhaustion in ministry and the need for self-care. They highlight the impact of urgency and importance on mental health and the importance of prioritizing health and wellbeing. The conversation concludes with a prayer emphasizing the need to never sacrifice one's health on the altar of productivity.

Takeaways

Recognize the dangers of exhaustion in ministry and the impact it can have on mental health.
Prioritize self-care and wellbeing to be able to offer the best of yourself in important work.
Do not let urgency and importance dictate your life's patterns; practice saying no and setting boundaries.
Remember that important work should not be antithetical to being healthy; take care of yourself and trust that the rest is in God's hands.

Chapters

00:0 0 Introduction

02:46 Chapter 12: I'm Not Running to Win

06:18 The Urgency of Important Work

09:10 Recognizing the Importance of Self-Care

13:26 The Dangers of Exhaustion in Ministry

23:32 The Impact of Exhaustion on Mental Health

27:45 The Choice Between Important Work and Soul

31:17 Prayer: May I Never Sacrifice My Health

32:43 Conclusion

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 11

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 28 Mar 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy discuss Chapter 11 of the book 'Sacred Strides.' They explore the importance of leading with love and true compassion in advocacy work. Justin shares a personal story of his experience as an MC at a music festival and how he initially struggled to connect with the audience. He reflects on the need to meet people where they are and tap into their desires and experiences. The conversation also touches on the pitfalls of manipulative advocacy and the importance of building genuine connections with others.

Takeaways
Leading with love and true compassion is essential in advocacy work. Meeting people where they are and tapping into their desires and experiences is more effective than trying to manipulate them into action. Avoid dehumanizing others and focus on building genuine connections. Advocacy should be rooted in empathy and a desire for the wholeness of individuals.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction 00:36 Chapter 11: Being a Front Runner or True Compassion and Learning to Lead with Love 08:41 Realizing the Importance of Empathy in Advocacy 11:03 The Transfiguration and the Invitation to Love 23:35 Changing the Way of Advocacy 25:56 Conclusion

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 10 - Quitting the Race "For Good"

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 21 Mar 2024 11:00:00 +0000

In this episode, Justin and Dan discuss Chapter 10 of the book 'Sacred Strides' titled 'Quitting the Race for Good' or 'Disconnect and Repair'. They start by talking about technology and its metaphorical significance. Justin shares his experiences with tech issues and the need for intentional disconnection. He explains the analogy of Bluetooth connections and the importance of forgetting certain connections to reconnect in a healthier way. Justin also discusses his journey of disconnecting from transactional relationships and finding true connections that remind him of his belovedness.

Takeaways

Technology can serve as a metaphor for disconnection and repair in our lives.
Regular disconnection is necessary to maintain healthy connections and avoid burnout.
Forging new connections with people who don't need anything from us is essential for our well-being.
Recognizing our belovedness and surrounding ourselves with sources of love and care is crucial for a fulfilling life.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Scheduling

00:30 Root Canal and West Wing

03:04 Technology as a Metaphor

06:15 Disconnecting and Repairing

11:12 Bluetooth and Connections

13:01 Forgetting Connections

15:20 Deep Dive into the Soul

22:56 Disconnecting and Forgetting

28:01 Recognizing Belovedness

29:43 Conclusion

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 9 - Running Hurt

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:00:00 +0000

Dan and I have been walking through my most recent book, Sacred Strides. We're going chapter by chapter providing some insights into the stories and some add-ons.

You know, kind of not quite behind the scenes of the making of it per se, but more like, what are the themes and why are they important? And do I still believe the things I said when I published this book. This week we go through Chapter 9.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 8 - Taking a Breather

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 9 Feb 2024 12:00:00 +0000

Sacred Strides Chapter 4 - Finding My Stride

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 1 Dec 2023 12:00:00 +0000

We are marching back through the book Sacred Strides, looking at different chapters, chapter by chapter. We're on Chapter Four, digging into elements of the book that will just kind of follow the arrows that the book provides. Because when I write, and I wrote this book, I never really intended for a book to be a whole thing. I intend for a book to point to other stuff and you are in the culture around you. So we're following those arrows and having the conversations around him. So welcome.

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides Chapter 3 - Staying In My Lane

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 16 Nov 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Another episode with producer, Dan Portnoy, marching through the book Sacred Strides. We're going to dive into Chapter 3 today - Staying In My Lane. This is a chapter about limitations - something we love to talk about.

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides - A False Start

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 3 Nov 2023 11:00:00 +0000

We are doing a series in and by which we're digging back into and through the book Sacred Strides - chapter by chapter talking about the dominant themes in the book or extras on top of the book what you know what it looks like to apply some of the things that I get to in the book. Dan, who's been a friend for a long time and has produced this podcast from its beginning, has a really unique perspective on my work and on me as a worker. And so it's fun to talk about my stuff and have Dan poke around a little bit at, "Hey, what's behind this or underneath this? What's after this?" And so we've enjoyed doing this podcast series up to this point and we expect to continue to, and we think you are as well, judging by the numbers, the metrics. So this is chapter two of the book Sacred Strides, and will you please welcome Dan Portnoy to the microphone? Let's dig in.

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Strides - Getting Off on the Right Foot

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Dan and I are doing a series of podcasts focused on my book. Reintroducing folks to the book Sacred Strides. We began last week with an overview of the book before it got into the introduction. And like why I wrote the book and some surrounding themes. This week, we will dive into Chapter One and talk about it. Dan is going to draw some stuff out. One of the things that's great about Dan and my partnership with Dan is that Dan has a unique perspective on the work I'm doing. Working more collaboratively with people is an enjoyable part of being an artist. So, welcome to this episode of The @Sea Podcast and interview with me, conducted by producer Dan Portnoy, centered on the book Sacred Strides. Here We Go.

Summary The book "Sacred Strides" with Justin McRoberts and Dan Portnoy. 0:07

Balance and prioritization in life and work. 1:15

Work-life balance and prioritizing projects. 5:43

Work-life balance and self-care. 9:39

Creativity, passion projects, and work-life balance. 14:24

Creativity, identity, and disillusionment. 19:38

Balancing work and family life as a creative professional. 24:09

Vulnerability and parenting with a focus on emotional connection. 30:23

Observing the Sabbath in modern times. 33:32

Scheduling and organization strategies. 42:04

Creative coaching and planning. 45:09

Creativity, work ethic, and entrepreneurship. 48:42

Identity and relationship with God. 53:12

Belovedness and rest for a deeper understanding of oneself. 57:08

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Introduction to Sacred Strides

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 13 Oct 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Welcome specifically to this new series. It's going to be a deeper dive into the book Sacred Strides, which I released earlier in the year. And I get to spend some time talking with my friend Dan Portnoy, who is also the producer of this show. So if you've been around the @Sea podcast for any amount of time you have benefited from and enjoy Dan Portnoy his work, I deeply value him as a friend and really value him also as a work partner. So what's gonna happen is instead of me just talking about the book, or trying to interview myself in some sort of like, like comedic Monty Python style, although that was, that was an that was an idea entertained. Dan's gonna ask me some questions beginning with this first episode, talking about some of the history leading up to the release of the book, why it was important and what I was hoping to do with it.

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Coaching, Spiritual Direction and What Comes Next

Steph Curry, Marshawn Lynch, Rest and Value

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 11:00:00 +0000

During the first round of the 2023 playoffs, Stephon Curry of the Golden State Warriors, my favorite team, was on the sideline, and his head coach, Steve Kerr, came to him and said, I'm going to rest you for a little while to save your energy. Now, let me hit pause here and confess, admit to pointing out, yes, you are getting a sports analogy. And so if you're not a sports See, type person, and you're not down with the sports ball, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for several reasons, one of which is that they are just such great analogies and images. Sports really do provide some wonderful parallels to the practice of life in general. So yes, I'm a sports fan. And yes, I like the Golden State Warriors. I love Steph Curry. And having lost both my other teams to Las Vegas. I'm celebrating and savoring my relationship with the Golden State Warriors. So with a few minutes left, I believe in the third quarter, head coach Steve Kerr comes to Steph Curry, potentially the greatest point guard in the history of basketball, and says I'm going to arrest you. Now, that is the kind of rest you and I, most of us, are used to not only getting but seeking. It's the kind of rest that is contextualized. By work, I am resting right now from work I've been doing so that I can get back to work and do it more effectively. And better. That's a certain kind of rest. And it's not a bad kind of rest. It's just limited that kind of rest in the long run, won't actually get to the depths of my soul, my being, and help reframe not just my work but my life and my orientation, even towards the work that I'm doing. In other words, there are different kinds of rest. And we kind of need all of them. Steve Kerr knew that Steph would just call them stuff out here. needed some rest in order for the second half to be everything. It could be for Steph Curry. And it turns out it was Steph dropping 30 points in the second half. And we beat us collectively. I took part in this victory. We beat the Sacramento Kings in game seven, a game seven in which Steph Curry scored 50 points, which at the time was the highest point total in all NBA history and a game seven. He's just fantastic. That was the rest he needed in order to do the job. And the value of the rest was predicated on its effectiveness on the work. And part of what we learn is that rest exposes our values, rest points at the things we think are most valuable about ourselves. And at that moment, the most important and valuable thing about Steph Curry was his ability to score. If all of the rest of my life is angled at setting me up so that I can work more efficiently, then what I expose in that kind of rest is that I believe my highest value is my productivity. Rest is a way it's a metric by which we understand, evaluate, and expose our own values. Which is why Sabbath Keeping is such an absolute scandal. Because what it says to the culture around us is that there are things more important about me than what I do for you. And you'll hear great athletes or great artists say something along those lines when interviewed, especially deeper into their careers, that there's more to them than basketball, there's more to them than rock and roll. There's more to them than what they do with even the best of their talents. About three years previous before that basketball game Marshawn Lynch, who had played in the NFL for a number of years, including for the Raiders, when they were in Oakland, gave an interview about football and, ultimately, about rest and rhythm. And he was asked to some degree, like what his advice would be to younger players, and you can read the entire thing. Or you can watch the video, which I would suggest you do for so many reasons whether or not you're a sports person. It's actually a fantastic piece of communication, what he says to the young the advice he would give to young folks, this is you said I've been on the other side of retirement, and it's good when you get over there. And you can do what you want. So I'll tell you all right now, while you're on it, take care of your bread. So when you're done, you can go ahead and take care of yourself. So while you're in it right now, to kill those bodies. Take care of those chicken. Chicken's a way to talk about money. Take care of those mental because, look, we ain't last in that long. I had a couple of players that I played with that they're no longer here no more. They're no longer you feel me. Take care of your metals, heals bodies, y'all chicken. So when you're ready to walk away, y'all walk away, and you'll be able to do what y'all want to do.

What Marshawn Lynch is communicating is, while you're in the game, take care of yourself for something more than the game itself, that there is more to who you are than what you're doing in a particular season. That game was game seven of the playoffs, and Steph was tired. So the rest he needed was just enough to get him back on the court so he could do the job. And that's a way to do the game while you're in the game. It is not a way to live long-term. Sabbath Keeping and rest are practices that expose the values we are living with. And, namely, they expose the overvaluing we have of productivity as a way to define our lives. So take the advice of football legend, local hero of entrepreneur, and all-around dope dude Marshawn Lynch, that while you're doing what you're doing, take care of yourself, yes for the thing you're doing, but also in a way that when you walk away from the thing you're doing right now in this season, there's more of you.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Re-Evaluating Our Metrics For Success

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:00:00 +0000

One of the conversations that I've been in for many years led to the desire to put together the book, Sacred Strides. And one of the conversations that comes up now that the book is out in the world has to do with burnout; you have most likely been around or been privy to or been in a conversation about burnout. One of the pivotal scenes or moments in the book sacred strides is one in which I point out how many folks actually experienced burnout in the ministry field. That's something along the lines of three out of every five persons who functions as a minister experiences burnout. 60% of the people who work in ministry claimed to admit to experiencing burnout. Usually, with statistics like social stats, the number tends to be a little skewed. Because with something like burnout, there tends to be kind of a shame piece where folks don't want to say they're burned out, so they don't. So if it's three out of five, and if it's 60%, by stats, you can assume there might be a few more folks than even that. Psychologically, when we talk about burnout, we're not just talking about being tired. And I think that's super important. There's one thing to be tired of. And there are certain kinds of tiredness that are actually really good for burnout isn't just about being tired. If you research burnout through the National Institute of Health, you'll see a definition of something along the lines of that burnout is a psychological syndrome emerging as a prolonged response to chronic interpersonal stressors on the job. So it's not just about the hours we put in; it's not just about the difficulty of those hours or the tasks we're up to. One way to talk about this is that burnout has as much to do with feeling misplaced and misused in our jobs and now in our lives as it has to do with the amount of time and energy we're spending. In other words, I can put in the same amount of time, with the same intensity, in a different place and not feel burned out. Another way to get into this conversation is to talk about metrics. Part of our sense of misplacement in our work lives oftentimes has to do with the metrics we're using for really just success. What makes me successful in this job can be a question that either sets me up for burnout or sets me up for healthy patterns of self-actualization and fulfillment. And so one of the gifts that a regular practice of rest does is it actually gives me altitude, not just to evaluate my experience of my job, but to actually evaluate the metrics I'm using when I think about how the job is going. So a couple of simple examples is I'll work with church leaders, who were trained in the metrics of numbers, and putting butts in seats, or conversions, or some sort of numbers-oriented metric. And because that's the metric they're using to evaluate success, anything that might add joy takes a massive backseat to achieve those numbers. And burnout comes when those numbers don't show up. Even if other aspects of the job that are truly life-giving to me are actually in place and going well. Same Same. I'll talk with artists who are bent on selling, and they're supposed to, or they think they're supposed to make a living, quote, unquote, make a living in the arts. And this will want to two ways with artists one, it'll be that they have a part-time job, or maybe even a full-time job, and they're trying to do their art on the side. And the burnout comes from recognizing, like, I don't want to try to hold both these pieces. And I need to actually take a season and full-blown invest in just my art for a season. Or at least as often. They recognize that tangling up their passion projects with the propensity or the need for sales is actually stealing joy. And they're experiencing burnout. because sales are displacing them, it's the thing they don't want to associate with their artwork. Again, one of the only ways to get out of the tube in our lives so we can pay attention to those metrics and how those metrics are shaping our experience of our work is to take regular time away to take a look back at what I'm experiencing and why I'm experiencing it on one level. Rest can be a place where I can look back at my life and figure out how to do the life I'm doing better. On another level, rest can be a way to take a step back and look at the life I'm living on a grander scale and actually make more fundamental changes that I don't want to try to achieve Some of the goals that I've been seeking to achieve, that's why I'm not happy. It's not like I want to get stronger or better at achieving some of these goals. I need to put some of these goals down, find new ones, and live a more fulfilled, happy, and therefore fruitful life. Friends, success is always, and I mean always, a moving target, and far more often than we allow ourselves. Success is the thing we get to decide on. What target do I want to hit? Well, I get to decide that more often than I'm told, which means it's really worth the time to figure out what it is I want to be achieving with the time, the talent, with the energy I have while I have it. Rest can provide space to figure that out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

A Short Reflection on Vacation

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 27 Jul 2023 11:00:00 +0000

I have had a somewhat unusual summer. And so far as I've taken a little bit of actual vacation time, I actually don't vacation much. I've never been one to enjoy vacation very much. Which isn't to say I don't like getting away. I do like the getaway; I like having days off. I like adventure, all that kind of stuff, vacation.

It just has had historically this really odd association to it.

Some of it has to do with childhood stuff, I think. But a lot of it just has to do with the experience I've had when taking vacations, and maybe you're like me in this, that for many, many years, I would be on vacation. And it would I would find it profoundly disappointing or profoundly unsatisfying. And then I'd come home from vacation and feel like I either wasted my time or I felt tired, or I would re-enter my life like something other than refreshed and ready. So the book Sacred Strides actually commits a couple of pages in a chapter to a conversation about vacation and some reflection on our American practice of getting away and taking vacations; I've got some criticisms of how we do it. And I won't read that chapter right now. It's some stuff we'll do later on. But part of what I've figured out as, as I come to those criticisms has to do with the way I have learned to approach time away, time off, and vacation. So here's the thing that I recognize, I learned, and part of why I'm enjoying vacation time in the summer. So when I leave for a vacation, when I'm on vacation, I don't actually like having a plan. That's not to say I don't want to know where I'm going; I want to know where I'm going. I want to have a destination for sure. I want to know that I've got a place to stay, and there'll be food to eat, etc. Outside of that, I really like to keep things kind of loosey-goosey and make decisions as I go along to be stuck with, like, here's the agenda, here's what time you're supposed to be there. Here's what time it's over like. Like, that's how I live the rest of my life vacation time away. I really like not having a plan. But the problem with not having a plan is it leaves me open to impulses. And then the question is about the nature of my impulses. And in the past, this was part of my historical pattern. Because I like my work, and I like my job so much that left to do nothing, I'll just kind of gravitate towards a project or gravitate towards like doing something maybe creatively or even logistically, like that's my natural impulse, my natural pattern, because I've developed that at practice that. And so I'll spend my quote-unquote vacation time tinkering with ideas and with projects or work stuff that I would actually just be happier doing back home, in my office space where all my stuff's available to me. So I would live in this tension like, I'm only half here, the impulses, I'm actually giving myself over to find a deeper, more comprehensive fulfillment when I'm at home in my office.

That doesn't tell me I spent some time over the course of years in the practice of rest, paying attention to those impulses in me; why do I gravitate towards work? Some of it really does have to do with my joy. At work, I actually love what I do. But there was this other thing that I didn't recognize in me until I started paying attention.

Because an impulse is a momentary explosion of interest or desire, that means that our impulses, which were the way I was thinking about my impulses, have a lot to do with knowing what I want. And in a lot of popular religious culture, all impulse is considered problematic. And sadly, I think that's because, in a lot of our religious contexts, all desire is painted as problematic. And I had spent very little time in my life, slowing down enough to pay attention to different wants in my life. So I could verify I could acknowledge, and celebrate my desire to make something I want to make good things in the world. That's a good thing to want to do. But outside of that, I think I was nervous. Actually, no, I was nervous to ask myself, what would you want for yourself? What would feel good to you? If we weren't doing something productive? We weren't adding to the bottom line. Maybe you resonate with that, that I just wasn't trained and paying attention to my own desire to paint and paying attention to the things that I wanted to my soul is even asking for. It's been in rest and moving away from the normal and very satisfying work patterns that I've learned myself as a person.

ChatGPT and a Better Theology of Work

Sara Billups

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 4 May 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Sarah Billups is a Seattle-based writer who has been speaking at and about the communal practice of religion for a number of years now. Most recently, she's collected a number of those thoughts in a book called orphaned believers. It's a wonderful book actually deeply insightful. And I was thrilled to have her on the podcast to talk not only about that book, but about the history she's had with religion with Christianity specifically, and the things that led to the assembly of those thoughts that make up that book. I enjoyed the conversation. I think you will as well.

Check it out.

Links for Sara Billups

Website - https://www.sarabillups.com

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sara.billups/

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Alan Briggs

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 27 Apr 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. I don't speak to a lot of other coaches, I talk to a few, but it's not a regular part of my conversation I actually fell into in some ways, the coaching job, just discovered myself doing it after a number of years. And so when I get to actually sit down and talk with someone else, working in that same space, it can be really refreshing. I found my conversation with Alan Briggs to be deeply informative, really refreshing, and incredibly enjoyable. I like his approach to human development to leadership. I also like how he integrates and understands the divine underpinnings in each human life. I think you'll enjoy this conversation. I know that I did.

Check it out.

Links for Alan Briggs

Stay Forth - https://www.stayforth.com

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Kevin Sweeney

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 21 Apr 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. When I first read Kevin Sweeney's initial book The Making of a Mystic, I found a bit of a kindred spirit that's somewhat unlikely person in the pastorate as well as a relatively unlikely person when one thing because of terms like mystical or contemplative. You might remember that conversation on this very podcast about that initial book from last season. His most recent book is called The Joy of Letting Go. And it actually met me exactly where I needed to be met when I picked it up as well. His language is a wonderful bridge between the everyday experience of life and the desired sacred posture with which I want to live that everyday life. I enjoy this conversation. I think you will as well.

Check it out.

Links for Kevin Sweeney

The Joy Of Letting Go - https://a.co/d/0IQKE0D

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jess Ray

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 13 Apr 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. I met Jess Ray a number of years ago at a conference where she was helping to lead songs and realize there was some of her music that I had heard before. Maybe you had that experience where you're paying attention to someone or something, you hear something and you realize, like, oh my gosh, this is already in my system. I'm already a fan of this. Well, having already been a fan of her music, just by nature of the songs themselves, then watching her engage with people. In the art of song-leading, I was locked in as a lifetime fan. I really like what Jess Ray does musically. I also really liked the way she goes about doing it. When I return to this theme over and over that art is anything we create that forges a connection between people. I think about people like Jess Ray, who really is actually about that connection, who pays attention to the connection, who senses that connection in herself. You'll hear that in the conversation. And I think you'll feel that in the worksheet as if you're not already familiar with it. So check out this conversation. I think you'll dig it.

Links for Jess Ray

Website - www.jessray.com

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Angie Ward

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 30 Mar 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. What does it mean to lead well? Heck, what does it even mean to lead period? And specifically, what does it mean to lead and lead well, in a religious context, when we talk about ministry, we talk about Church we talk about religious culture in general. Nowadays, the question of what good healthy leadership looks like might be the most important conversation on the table when it comes to the "Future of the American church and American religion." It's a conversation that Angie Ward has been in for a long time, and had some poignant thoughts, not only in her books but in podcasts and interviews like this one, I really enjoyed the clarity and the confidence and the humility with which Angie Ward approaches conversations about what it looks like to not just lead but to lead well. I enjoyed this conversation. I think you will also.

Check it out.

Links for Angie Ward

Website - www.angieward.net

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jenai Auman

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 23 Mar 2023 11:00:00 +0000

If you are around or in conversations about mental health for much time at all, you probably hear the word trauma used relatively often. And if you are in or around conversations at the intersection of mental health and religious life, you'll probably hear the phrase church trauma, or religious trauma used, at least as regularly. Those conversations can be really tricky, can be really difficult, and also can be really necessary. Some of the most helpful voices in those conversations, at least that I've come across, aren't even necessarily folks trained as therapists or even working as pastors. Some of the most helpful folks in conversations about church trauma are those who have experienced it, have done the work in their own hearts, minds, and communities, and then are speaking back into some of those spaces, not even just correctively. But both correctively and compassionately, a lot of what I've enjoyed and benefited from with regards to Janai Auman's work is that posture that she's remarkably articulate, and she is abundantly clear about the places lines have been crossed about the abuse of power in church leadership. She is also speaking from a place of hope. I really enjoyed this conversation with her, and I think you will as well.

Check it out.

Links for Jenai Auman

Website - https://www.jenaiauman.com

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenaiauman/

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Molly LaCroix

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 16 Mar 2023 11:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. Molly Lacroix is my guest on this episode. And as a marriage and family therapist, she engages in the kind of art I find inspiring, incredibly rare, and necessary. She takes what would otherwise be, perhaps even frustratingly, wildly difficult concepts, things out of the reach of the average person's daily knowledge, and then boils those down and communicates those in such a way that folks like me can get handles on those ideas, but does so in a way that doesn't, I don't know, demean me, or, just as importantly, doesn't do so in a way that diminishes the depth, richness, and complexity of the traditions and the systems she's referencing. Working at the intersection of spirituality and interpersonal relationships. As a family therapist, she's trained explicitly in internal family systems, which is a model of understanding human interaction, our engagement with the world, our relationships, and the systems we function in. I find it deeply freeing, and it has been really helpful for my practice and the lives of many people I care about. This was a fascinating and wonderful conversation. I think you'll benefit from it.

Check it out.

Links for Molly LaCroix

Website - https://mollylacroix.com

Latest Book - Restoring Relationship: Transforming Fear into Love Through Connection

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

John Delony

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 9 Mar 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. One of the points of conversation we are returning to over and over during this series we're doing at the intersection of mental health and spiritual practice has to do with the benefit or the problem of familiarity with mental health issues, mental health terminology, and with diagnostic tools. There's a world of conversation now in public about what it means to be depressed, to have depression, to live with ADHD, and to have anxiety. Does the familiarity with and the public dialogue about these things actually benefit us? That was one of the reasons I was looking forward to talking to Dr. John Delony because so much of what he does, doesn't just happen in books. He's written a few books but actually happens in a public and public dialogue with people who bring him their life issues. And he brings to them a knowledge of brain chemistry and our knowledge of mental health patterns and practices in an attempt to not just meet the caller when they call in but also meet listeners. I have known Dr. John Delony since long before he was a doctor. He's become a good friend of mine. We share a passion for a lot of things in common, but more so than anything else. We really like people, and we love the opportunity to do what we can to care for those who make themselves available to us. I think you'll enjoy this conversation. I certainly did.

Check it out.

Links for John Delony

Website

Instagram

Latest Book - Own Your Past Change Your Future: A Not-So-Complicated Approach to Relationships, Mental Health & Wellness

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Nicole Unice

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 2 Mar 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Hello, and welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. This episode of the podcast takes us deeper into the ongoing conversation here at the At Sea podcast. At the intersection of psychotherapeutics and spiritual practice, this time with author, pastor, speaker leader, and coach Nicole Unice. I think you'll pick up in the conversation that we haven't had a truckload of conversations. We've been trying to have this conversation for quite a while. I definitely find in Nicole Unice a kindred spirit not only because of our affinity for young life and kids but even in the odd gravity we both feel towards the word pastor and a love for the institutional church. She lives in Richmond, Virginia, although she speaks all over the country. And her most recent book, the one we'll talk about in the conversation, is called, The Miracle Moment: How Tough Conversations Can Actually Transform Your Most Important Relationships. I really enjoy how she enters into the relational dynamics at a granular level and is hyper-practical about her approach to people, ministry, and philosophy. I enjoyed this conversation and I think you will as well.

Links for Nicole Unice

Website - https://nicoleunice.com

Latest Book - The Miracle Moment: How Tough Conversations Can Actually Transform Your Most Important Relationships

Links For Justin:

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

NEW Book - Sacred Strides (Pre-order)

It Is What You Make it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@Sea - Ep131- Lent and Limitation (A Reflection For People Who Care and Are Tired)

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Early on in my vocational career, I was on staff with a ministry organization. I was hoping to plant a church, making some music. I was around a lot of people, and a partner of mine, a friend, someone I knew who I was working with, described my overall posture as that of an ambulance chaser. They intended to point out that I tended to lean into difficult situations. That I wasn't causing drama. But as he put it, "If there's a bleeding wound somewhere, you want to go patch it up." Their hope and intention wasn't to insult me or disparage my character, so much as it was to point out this tendency in me to, maybe, overextend myself, that while it's a good thing that I want to help, while it's a good thing, that I actually do care. Both of those things are true, they were true, they're true now. I really do care. And I really do want to help, just because I care. And just because I want to help doesn't mean it's my business. Probably more important than that was this, they were pointing out that I was wearing myself out, from emergency to emergency, from dire situation to dire situation, I was drawn to places and to people that needed a lot of help. I've returned to that memory about that conversation somewhat frequently since the beginning of the year because I recognize in me I'm tired. And maybe you resonate with that. I look around at the world immediately around me, or a few steps away from me much less on Twitter, or Facebook, or Instagram, and it can be kind of overwhelming. Maybe not kind of, it can just be overwhelming. If you are someone who actually does care, if you're someone who really does want to help - right now is a heck of a time to be alive. Because on the one hand, the consciousness we share about what's going on in the world, the world around us, or even the world, two worlds over from where we live, can facilitate a sense of connectedness that we are in this together. And on the other hand, sometimes.

Let me rephrase that far too often. Not just the amount of information available but how it is made available can make it seem like it's not enough to care where you can care. It's not enough to help where you can help. You can apply the best of your energies to the small corner of the world where you can be effective and wise. You have to care about everything and do so well. And if you do not care wisely and well and effectively about that which is popping in the moment, you are part of the problem. So that if you spend the best of your energies to make your small corner of the world better and more beautiful for the people you've been given to, and then have nothing left over for the causes the world around you is screaming are important today. You have missed. And you are part of what's wrong.

And so I'm tired.

And maybe you are too.

So I don't share this reflection, this confession as it were, because I want to air my dirty laundry and hope that you find empathy with me instead. I wonder if you feel something similar. I wonder if you feel tired, and not tired because you're the kind of person who just doesn't have space for other people, not tired because you're the kind of person who has over other people's stories—tired because you really do care. And you really do want to help, and you're doing everything you think you can do to the best of your ability, and you still feel like you're getting judged and you're failing. We are now in the season of Lent. It's the season that I look forward to and celebrate and dive headfirst into every year because it's a reset for me. And it's a reset for me because it is a season in which I celebrate, lean into, and practice my limitations. I limit my drinking. I limit my eating. I limit the time I spend in certain places. I actually intentionally practice living as a limited person. And after all these years of practicing my limitation in the season of Lent, part of what I'm coming to realize is that my limitations aren't a problem. My limitations are part of what it means for me to be whole. And when I judge myself for being limited, for not being able to care about everything wisely and well, when I treat myself as if I should be able to overcome my limitations so that I can be more productive, more caring, more present in more places, what I actually do is I diminish my humanity, and I diminish the person I actually am, which includes, and is defined by my limitations.

So, this Lent 2023, my hope and intention is not simply to practice limitation the way have often practiced limitation. But as I practice, and lean into, and in fact, celebrate my limitations. I also practice what Henry Nouwen calls the ministry of disappointment. I will be bummed to find, at the end of myself, that there are things I wish I could care about more completely that I simply can't, that there are ways I wish I could help. But I simply won't be able to. I'll be bound to disappoint other people who really do wish I cared about the things they cared about the way they care about them.

I don't.

I can't.

And I won't expect them to care about my corner of the world. And the things that I care about the way I do. See, I don't want to feel tired anymore, the way I have felt tired, because the work I have to do in the very specific place I've been planted is just too important. And the people that I've been given to that I can actually care for wisely and well are just too important. And the help I can offer and the places I've actually been planted is help I can offer because I've been planted here. And I don't want to be too tired, or too distracted, or too demoralized to do the work that I can do the work right in front of. Because I've spent all of my energy worrying, and being sad, and disappointed and kicking myself for not being able to do more. So maybe no one ever called you an ambulance chaser. The way I was called an ambulance chaser. But maybe you resonate with that feeling that man you care. And boy, you really want to help. But you don't want to be so damn tired all the time. So that you can offer the best of your energies, your time, your efforts, your wisdom, your life. To the places where you can make an actual difference, make an impact, and make the kind of change you're designed to make. Consider joining me this Lent and practicing in some way shape or form your own limitations, and re-envisioning, re-embracing yourself as the limited person that you were created to be planted in a particular place at a particular time among a particular people. So that it might be with you and with me as it was and is with Jesus, the Christ. Born to Mary and Joseph and the town of Nazareth, and his brother James and his small group of friends, that he spent a particular amount of time with him in that particular place. And because he attended so well and so wisely to that which was right in front of him. The whole role changed.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Stephen Roach

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 16 Feb 2023 12:00:00 +0000

I met Stephen Roach a number of years ago at an event he curates called the Breath and the Clay. It's a conference, an Arts and Faith Conference in North Carolina. And I'd heard about the Breath in the Clay through artists who had participated in the conferences, as presenters. And then some folks who had attended the thing. And, and all of them had something similar to say about it, that it was not just different, but different in this particular way, that they left with a sense of belonging in the world of the arts, that less, less than leaving just equipped as an artist to make their art, or less than just feeling inspired. More than that, they left feeling they had a place in the world of the arts. And that's such a vital aspect, I would suggest great art, of great culture, and of life. Not just feeling equipped, internally, but feeling a sense of belonging in place in my world, and in my particular culture. We've become friends since then we chit chat off and on. And I've been looking forward to this interview for a long time, namely, because over the last 18 months or two years since the last breath in the clay event, Steven has spent a considerable amount of time investing in his own health and his own place in his own life and his own in his own culture, that he's actually spent the time to attend to who he is, as he does what he does. That I think is the engine behind great art lives and great careers. So I was thrilled to do this conversation. I enjoyed it.

I think you will too.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

KJ Ramsey

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 9 Feb 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts. The emphasis I've placed so far this season on the practice of poetry actually positions us to have some conversations well to continue some conversations that I care a whole lot about. Really specifically beginning with this episode of Focus, concentrated focus on the intersection and overlap between psychotherapy and religious practice. As someone who's benefited both from therapy and spiritual direction, this intersection is a place I experienced a great deal of life while also coming to a great deal of very complex and really interesting questions about what it means to be me, what it means to be human, what it means to have relationship what it means to be a person of faith.

One of my favorite people working in that intersection at that intersection is KJ Ramsay. KJ works at that intersection as a therapist and an author who talks profoundly about issues of faith. And it just so happens, has recently produced a volume of poems and prayers, which makes such a beautiful bridge into the heart of this conversation about what it means to be fully human. To value that which is beyond our understanding and to dig really deeply and thoughtfully into the things we can and should understand, like brain chemistry. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, and I think you will as well. Check it out.

Links for KJ Ramsey

Website - https://www.kjramsey.com

Latest Book - The Book Of Common Courage

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Poetry & Relationship

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 2 Feb 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Among the many gifts I got early in high school was an F I got on a paper from an English class, a paper that the teacher said was too poetic. What he didn't mean by that is that I had written great poetry in the wrong place. What he meant really, in large part, is that it was really poorly written poetry. A lot was going on for me at the moment. One was I really wasn't actually prepared to write the paper he suggested I write. I didn't actually do the assignment the way it was assigned. So there was that I was a bad student. Secondly, a lot of my literary influences weren't literary in the academic sense. They were. They were poems. They were Lyrics by Morrissey or Robert Smith of the cure any number of folks in the new wave kind of genre of music, and I was deeply influenced by their words because I felt their words. And the topic of the paper. I don't remember specifically, but I wanted to feel it when I wrote about it. It had to do with what you wanted to be when you grew up. And for me, at the time, I was a freshman. That was a feeling question. It wasn't an idea question. It wasn't a mathematical question. It wasn't a reasoning question. What I wanted to be when I grew up was a feeling question. It was something that was attached to my emotions. And the words that I would have normally used in an academic setting. It just really didn't do it for me. So I reached for poetry. I know this now, as a 49-year-old guy, I wouldn't have articulated quite like that as a freshman, but I'm pretty sure that was what was going on is, yeah, I'm supposed to write this paper about my feelings and dreams. It feels too boring to write it like an essay. I'm going to write it like a poem. That totally worked for me emotionally. It did not work for me at all. Academically, I got an F on the paper. I think I ended up with a D or a C. In the class. That anecdote, as silly and goofy and hopefully as funny as it might be to you, also reflects a tension I have often lived in, not just as a writer, but as a person when it comes to the particular uses of language for particular things. proper grammar, and getting the words right to speak correctly. I think it doesn't just have a place; I think it's vitally important. Learning the rules of grammar is important. Part of what makes learning the rules of grammar important is that I know intentionally when working outside of those rules, that that realm of poetry is at least as important as learning the rules of grammar and getting it right. One of the reasons I'm spending so much time talking with poets during the season. And referencing people's poetic work because I think the world of poetry and the practice of poetry might help to unlock a little bit of what's missing in our communication with one another. I've watched a conversation between two very like-minded persons about a topic that they, for the most part, really agree on devolve into vitriol and disgust and insults. Because a wrong word was chosen because of the wrong phrase or because of a word in the wrong place. And the emphasis on getting the right word, the correct word became more important than the person on the other side of the word that we stopped in those moments asking the question, what might this person mean by it? Which is a question about the person, and we instead get locked up on the fact that that would not be the word I would choose. They didn't say it or do it the way I would. We miss one another. When a relationship, in general, much less than a broad cultural scale, becomes about getting it right. Part of what poetry does is it invites us to move through conversations to more patiently, slowly, and attentively look at, listen to, examine, and take in the language in front of us, whether that's the language we're using or the language someone else is using in conversation with us. And not to investigate that word, according to some scale of its rightness, but allow the possibilities, the word opens up to open up the possibilities in relationship. At one point in Jesus's work life, he was asked by one of his disciples, Why he spoke to people in parables. If you know the work of Jesus, you know that a lot of the time, he would tell a story about a field or a farmer about sowing seeds. Instead of telling the story straight or telling the truth straight, he would use analogies to use imagery. And one of these folks who spent a lot of time lives and why do you speak to be Put in parables. This is from the NIV, it says, he replied, This is Matthew 13, he replied, Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them, whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance, whoever does not have even what they have, will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables. And then quoting from the book of Isaiah, he says, Though seeing they do not see through hearing, they do not hear or understand it is fulfilled in them from the prophet Isaiah, you will be ever hearing but never understanding you will be ever seen but never perceiving. Now, I'm going to assume that you've had conversations like this in which you are speaking, and the person who is listening to you isn't actually listening. They might be looking at you, and they might like have an ear open to you, but they're not really listening. They've maybe decided what you're going to say. Or maybe they've decided how they're going to feel about what you're going to say in any number of options outside of actually attending to what it is you're saying, which is why I really love what Jesus says. He says, Listen, I speak to people in parables because I'm challenging them to listen. You are actually doing the work of listening. And because you're doing the work of listening, you'll continue to receive more of this, which is how relationship works. And by that, I mean all relationships, interpersonal relationships, corporate relationships, societal relationships, administrative relationships, and cultural relationships. It's all predicated on Listening, paying attention, and not just to the words used, but to the people using the words. Poetry asks us to slow down and attend to the words, not just themselves, but all the possibilities. Those words open up between us and those we are conversing with. Again, there I am at 15 years old, trying to find words that actually match what's going on in my guts. And absolutely, Mr. Griswold was correct that using an academic paper to work that out was not the right place. But it was the right thing for me to be doing. And the more time I've spent in areas in my life where the right words, academically, even societally, just don't actually match what's going on in me or around me or between me and other people. The more stretching, invitational practice of poetry has allowed me to create space in my own psychology and, yes, in between myself and other people. Which leads me to this. I honestly can't see the next season of life here where I live in the United States, becoming less nuanced, becoming less complicated, culturally, racially interpersonally. I think it's going to get weirder. And the weirder it gets, the harder it will be to connect with one another if we're expecting people to jump through all the right hoops in order to communicate with us. So how do we become better listeners at think reading some poetry on occasion, somewhat regularly, and maybe even getting into that practice of finding some space in our lives to maybe write some poetry to get outside of the language we're used to using in our academic, relational, religious spaces, and create a pattern in our own minds in which words don't kill relationship but open up the possibility of it

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Gregory Orr

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 12:00:00 +0000

I don't remember the exact details surrounding my introduction to Gregory or his work. I do remember that upon my first reading, I was captured. In fact, one of my favorite live performance moments ever was sitting with my friend David dark, who's also been a guest on this podcast several times, at a reading of Gregory Orr's at Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley, Mass., and having one of those shared when I grew up, I would like to be like that moments. I could say quite a bit about his work in order to set this up. Instead, I would like to get you directly to the interview he reads from a most recent volume of his towards the tail end. And I'm so glad that he did. I think you will be too. Enjoy this.

Links for Gregory Orr

Website - http://gregoryorr.net

Latest Book - Selected Books of the Beloved

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Poetry & Control

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 19 Jan 2023 12:00:00 +0000

On most Sundays, I get the privilege of gathering in my house with a group of preteens and reading through bits of the scripture and talking about them. And then praying together, it's a thing we call the good news Club, which borrows from a tradition we've gleaned from. One of my favorite parts of these gatherings is that we don't just read from one translation of the Bible. We actually crack open three or four different translations and interpretations of the Bible and read the same story, the same text, and the same bid, including the Jesus storybook Bible and the message we read from the NIV. We have an NRSV. We have like a bunch of different texts and translations. And it's been a kick to pay attention to the ways these sometimes first-time Bible readers will notice the difference between word usages, that in this version of Mark, this person uses this word. And over here, they use this word. It's the same story, the same moment, different words.

The practice is less about developing a taste for or a particular preference for a specific translation. It's about language, and not only is it okay that there are different words used to describe the same thing, it's, in fact, necessary and important because the reality of God is bigger and broader than the language we use to describe it in the same way, that the language we use to describe and relate with one another, is smaller, and less nuanced, and less beautiful than the reality of one another. See, words don't define reality. They express and sometimes define our experiences of reality.

Which is part of why I'm spending the time I'm spending to chase down books and interview poets this season. Poetry, as a practice reading and writing, has the power to help loosen my grip on language.

And perhaps more importantly, it helps me loosen the grip I think I have through language on reality.

It brings me to this. See, in the past, I would get hung up on the words we use and the ways I thought that those words missed reality. I couldn't capture all of what I meant by Christian with the Word Christian. I couldn't capture all of what I meant by God with the Word of God. I couldn't capture all of what I meant in a word. And so I wanted to stop using certain words like the ones I just used. I didn't want to use the Word Christian anymore because I didn't want to get tangled up in what you might think I might mean when I used the word, and then that just got exhausting. So my emotional posture shifted, and I decided I would redeem words that meant something to me. And that process and effort also got exhausting.

So I've shifted again, and nowadays, I'm trying to be less of a word, cop, period, and just become a better poet.

Poetry disorients and then reorients me to the language I use and the language around me. And the most important part of that process is actually that disorientation, the work of detachment and detangling, not just from the words themselves, or even the meanings I've attached to those words, but detangling and detaching myself from the control I think I have over reality, by way of my words, and by way of the meanings I've invested in them. Back control keeps me from seeing you as you are as opposed to seeing you the way I've decided you are. And it keeps me from encountering God as opposed to the way I wish or want God to be.

And here, I think of a series of words that I found useful for detangling myself from words. God rid me of God, a prayer by Meister Eckhart.

See, I don't want to try to abandon the words I've learned to use, or I don't want to try to entirely revamp my vocabulary to be more open unstead. I want to let go have the grip I think I have on reality through the words. I use poetry as a practice moves me towards that open posture, to be more receptive as a human so that I can receive you as you are so that I can receive God as God is and know that my limited words can only point in the direction of the nuanced, complex and abundantly beautiful reality of you.

And if God,

words don't become less powerful, by way of the poetic practice or less meaningful, by way of poetic practice, no instead, through poetry, I develop a far deeper respect for language, so much so that I simply refuse to use words like a tool of control.

The poetic practice teaches me that words can be a way to say

there's more here than I could begin to even imagine pinning down what I'm about to say. But I hope that with these carefully chosen words, I might point you in the direction of the reality I've experienced, a reality well beyond my capability in word to control or even a name.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

More info on Scott Cairns

Scott Cairns

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 12 Jan 2023 12:00:00 +0000

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and sorry, I could not travel them both and be one traveler, long I stood and looked down one as far as I could, to where it bent in the undergrowth, you might recognize that as the opening stanza to the Robert Frost poem, The Road Not Taken. It's the poem that ends, Two roads diverged in the wood, and I took the one less traveled by, and it has made all the difference. It's probably even more familiar. I remember being exposed to that poem. It was probably the first poem as a whole poem that I was actually taught or read really fully exposed to. I think I was a freshman in high school. And as I was exposed to and read and saw this poem, really for the first time, two things happened in me that I recall. One was a kind of, I guess, embarrassed response poetry, poems. They were written by and for hyper, emotive, weird people. And that if you were into poems and you liked poetry, then you must be a hyper-emotive and weird person. I was on the football team. I ran track. I was a guy.

That was the one thing happening in my brain. The other thing happening in me was that I was really resonating, and I really liked the poem. And I really liked the rest of that section in our English class about poetry. Something about the very intentional use and shape and reframing of words actually resonated with my soul. That tension resolved itself over the years, till the beginning and even later in high school, as life got weirder and required more complex and deeper emotional responses. Poetry became an actual feature in my life as something I attempted to write. But definitely, I started reading more poetry all the way through college. And to be entirely honest, really, in the last decade or so, the more I've spent time, intentionally on, in my own inner universe, and done my best to come alongside people working in the arts and working in religious spaces where life is hard and complex and weird and strange.

Poetry has not just become a useful tool or a powerful practice. It has become a really safe, generative, and transformative aspect of expression.

It's a beautiful part of my life.

I listened to Scott Cairns's read and lecture at the festival faith in writing. I believe it was in 2016. And not just not only was I struck by his writing and the way he read the things he wrote, but I was also really captured by the way he talked about his work. That's one of those. It's one of the aspects of art-making that oftentimes inspires me. So someone who's excellent in their craft and has the ability to talk about what they do, how they do it, and why they do it. I've been thinking about and hoping to catch Scott to talk about the power of poetry, the essence of poetry, and the necessity of poetry for a really long time. And so I'm really glad I got some time to sit down with him. I enjoy this conversation. I think you will as well.

Hearts and Minds Bookstore

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Winter Solstice, Sick Kids, and The Incarnation

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 22 Dec 2022 12:00:00 +0000

Welcome to the At Sea Podcast. I'm your host, Justin McRoberts.

I'm recording this on December 21, 2022. It is the winter solstice, the day where I live that features the least amount of light. The night is longest. And I'll be honest with you, I'm not feeling great. I don't know if I quite have the flu yet, but I might. Because my daughter does. And I found that out a few hours ago. It's been really since Sunday. She wasn't feeling well on Sunday. She was feeling not so great on Monday, so she didn't go to school, then she didn't go to school on Tuesday, and then today, Wednesday. She certainly did not go to school. She has been very sick. Last night, when she went to bed, it was mostly just cold symptoms. That was sniffles, and it was a little bit of a headache. And then she mentioned that one of her ears wasn't feeling great. Oh, I thought. And not too long ago, her being in bed by herself. She woke up and started vomiting. Her brother came downstairs to let us know that she had, in his words, puked everywhere. So we went ahead and cleaned up what we could clean up. And if you're a parent, you're probably not as grossed out as others would be because kid puke is different than other puke in some way. And then, as I was settling her back in and tucking her back, she asked me if I would stay because she was scared. Sure, absolutely. I got my pillow and a blanket. And I laid down on the floor, and I did not sleep really much at all. She woke up every 1015 minutes. She was uncomfortable. She was nauseous, and she threw up a few more times. And I'll be honest with you, it wasn't a pain in the butt to get my back hurt. And, like I said, it didn't sleep, and my shoulders hurt. And you know, I'm almost 50 sleeping on the floor is not my forte. But there was this gift that I was experiencing, especially in the darker, later, deeper hours of the night. I get to be there for her. I get to be the person in the room. When she doesn't feel well. And a scared. I wanted to be there. So it was a kind of a joy. Speak speaking of joy. In a few days, we, in the Christian tradition, celebrate Christmas, this magical and miraculous celebration of God becoming a person, and I do get it. There's that I'm aware of the sort of kerfuffle of sorts around Jesus not being actually born in December. I've heard it's June. I've heard other things. And that's fine.

I'm not at all saying that that conversation is unimportant in the grander sense or in some grand sense. I will say, though, on a personal level, I'm not all that moved by it. See, what I don't really care about when I come to religious faith or religious practice are things like exactly where Jesus was born or what the exact date was. I am instead drawn to religion, religious faith, and religious practice. With questions more like when it is darkest when it's hardest, when it is coldest. Is God not just there? But willfully and joyfully? There when my life is not okay. When I am not okay. In my wife, is God with me? And IS GOD WITH ME joyfully? And happily and willfully. We've had a few conversations with Caitlin. Over the last few days, and certainly, today, as this sickness has gotten worse and keeps dragging on, she understands she's sick. It's just something that's part of being human. There are going to be days when you don't feel well. And sometimes those days run into other days and become weeks. There are just times in life when you don't feel well. And what she has wanted, honestly, more than medication is to just be around people. That's what she's wanted. Does she want the medication? Honestly, she doesn't like the medication cuz it tastes like crap. It really does. It's awful. I can't believe we haven't fixed that yet. But more than medication, she wants to know that people are going to be with her in her room overnight, on the couch next to her during the day, that if she's not going to feel well if that's part of what it means to be human, then will you live that with me and again, this is part of what makes so much poetic sense that we celebrate the incarnation of God. In a time when for a lot of us, things are coldest, and the nights are longest. Not just because we feel more comforted, but like good religion does, it points us forward that if we want to be loving and caring people, when it gets harder when it gets darker, and when it gets colder, what the people around us are really going to ask is, are you going to be there with me? Will you show up when it gets bad? Will you show up in a way in which you risk getting some of what makes me sick and bearing some of what brings me down.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Depression and the Incarnation

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 16 Dec 2022 17:45:00 +0000

It's possible, if not likely, that if you are remotely pop culture aware and spend any time on social media platforms, you'll see news about or posts about the death, the passing of dancer, DJ, choreographer named tWitch.

I was struck by the moment I heard about his passing. A fan of his, I've liked his work, I've liked him on TV. I've liked his posture online otherwise. I was saddened by the fact that h e's only 40 years old. And I felt the thing that I read that Jen Hatmaker wrote in her public post.

She said this line that struck me and sort of set this thought in motion, she said he was suffering, and we didn't even know pain has never been easier to hide. Some of what you might have seen, which is what I have seen, is folks confessing or saying out loud, like, you know, he seems so happy. It's so shocking. And it's always shocking. When depression or anxiety, when mental health issues surface. A lot of the time, it's a surprise; we're shocked. We're even to some degree scandalized. We didn't know that that was going on in someone's head in someone's heart. And especially when it comes to light that someone has been thinking about ending their own lives, much less when someone tries to end their own life. It's surprising, it's shocking. And it shakes us, I would hope. It shakes us when someone chooses to end their own life.

Shared some of his own thoughts along the same lines. This notion that he was suffering and we didn't know pain has never been easier to hide. On the one hand, that's so true. You don't really know what someone is up against. You don't really know what's going on in someone's head. And then Carlos adds this caveat to that. He says, Yeah, but you do know that it's just hard sometimes for anyone. We do know you don't know the particulars, but you do know or maybe should assume that everyone is facing something.

See, in these moments, when we are publicly engaging with or talking about depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation, I hope we don't become more fearful of depression or anxiety. And the threat is to those around us and even to ourselves. I hope we don't become more afraid of the things that steal life. I do hope, instead, that we become more patient and kind, more long-suffering, more thankful for the raw gift it is to no people at all, including knowing their darker corners and the darker corners of their souls because that is one of the gifts of knowing someone knows that they are up against something, and valuing even their struggles. So what if instead of becoming more fearful of depression, and anxiety, and suicidal ideation, we actually change our posture towards one another. Because no, you don't get to know the specifics of what someone is going through in their lives. But we really should assume that they're going through something. And that it's hard. It is one thing to say I want to be someone who helps people carry their heavy things. It is another thing entirely to actually do the work of carrying those things for other people. It is an entirely different thing to become the kind of person who moves away from transactional relationships and begins to consider the gift is to be alive and to share in being alive with those around us, including those around us carrying heavy weights. We are, as of the day of this post, right about the middle of the Advent season, a season on the Christian calendar which we anticipate the birth of Jesus in the incarnation of God. And in a conversation with friends recently about the incarnation. We talked about the humanity of Jesus, we talked about what it looked like what it meant for God to be human. And one of the folks in the group pointed out this moment, and if you read the gospels, you know this moment. If you don't, I'll try to highlight it quickly that at some point in the life and ministry of Jesus, a lot of the people who were following Jesus stopped and just left. He had said some things publicly. So that I think we're confusing the pressure on him with from religious powers and political powers started scaring people off, and hordes of people who are following Jesus left, and he turns to the disciples, and the phrase in the scriptures is, are you going to leave me to? What about you? Are you going to leave too? And this person in the conversation said, you know, there are a couple of different ways to read that. And one is the way I grew up reading that it's it's a test like, Okay, well, everyone, everyone else left, what about you? Will you stay? Are you going to be faithful, like it's a test of the disciples? The other reading is that he doesn't want them to leave. Because they're his friends. And he kind of needs them emotionally. And instead of, are you going to leave me too. It's, what about you? Are you going to leave me to later on in the life of Jesus, right towards the tail end when things get hardest? He invites these two friends, these two disciples of his, to stay with him as he prays through the night, knowing that he's about to be arrested, he's about to be crucified. He knows this is the darkest moment in his life. And he invites these people. We call them the disciples. He invites these friends of his to stay with him as he prays to the night, and they keep falling asleep. And the way the writer of Matthew records this moment, he says that he awakened Jesus, Jesus awakened Peter, and said to him, could you not stay awake with me for even one hour? Again, is there a challenge to Peter to become a better person, bear, and more faithful friend, likely possibly? Is there also, though, the desire in Jesus for his friend to be with him when it's hardest and darkest? See that human reading of Jesus doesn't just normalize the need that you and I have for other people, and actually lifts that up and says, part of what it means to be a whole person is to need the people around you, especially when it's hardest and darkest. And if that's the kind of humanity that we are called to by the person of Christ, then maybe that's the kind of humanity we want to or ought to actually approach other people with, that the issues people are facing and the weights they are carrying, are not just obstacles to a more fulfilling experience of other people, but they are in fact, invitations to help the people around us carry their wounds and their shadows the way we would like the people around us to help us carry ours that it is, in fact, a gift to share in the struggles of those around us. So while it can be sometimes impossible to know the exact details and the exact nature of the details of someone else's struggle, we can assume that they are as human as we are. So may it be so of us that we don't become more nervous about or ashamed of or afraid of depression and anxiety. Instead, may we become more patient, more kind, more forgiving, more long-suffering, less transactional, and more purely thankful. For the raw gift is to no other people at all. May we live at a slower and less utilitarian pace in relationship to other people, and may we celebrate their full humanity, which includes their limitations and struggles and dark corners, the way we are taught in the Christian tradition to celebrate the humanity of Jesus.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Keith Simon : Truth Over Tribe

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 1 Dec 2022 12:00:00 +0000

I'm recording this introduction a few days after Thanksgiving. And if you're listening to this when the episode comes out, it'll be roughly a week, maybe a week and a day or so after the Thanksgiving holiday, which is to say this is the holiday season. And between Thanksgiving and maybe some things that happen in between. And the Christmas holiday is a season during which we sit down at a table with neighbors, with friends, with family, with people who share different ideas hold different ideas about how the world works. Usually, what we mean by that is they hold different religious or different political perspectives. And the rule the cultural rule has become you don't talk about politics. You don't talk about religion. At the dinner table, and specifically during the holidays, I see story after story or anecdote after anecdote on most of my social media platforms about nightmare scenarios or nightmare fears, things happening during the holidays, around politics, and religion among family members and neighbors, etc. You don't talk about religion and politics during the holidays.

And as much as I understand, and I really do, because I've certainly been in the scenarios in which a political or religious conversation was problematic relationally

just really disappoints me, and it saddens me. In fact, I find it a little bit boring. And I long for conversations and places for conversation in which politics and religion are not just on the table, but welcomed, invited, where we can have real-life differences about real life, things that really do matter, which is why I was thrilled to sit down and talk with Keith Simon. Key Simon is the co-author of a book called Truth over tribe pledging allegiance to the lamb, not the donkey or the elephant. He is the pastor of a church. He's a thoughtful and caring individual. And he's someone who, like me, is aware of his own biases, is aware of his own history, and is aware of the unfortunate and massive gap between far too many people who don't feel the capacity, the ability, or the willingness to share in some of the ideas that actually drive their lives. I enjoyed our conversation. I think you will too. Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

That's Love

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 12:00:00 +0000

In 2002, I wrote and recorded a song called love.

And I've been waiting to write some kind of follow-up to that song pretty much since I released it. It was a song that meant a lot to me at the time because I was trying to publicly and personally redefine the word and my experience of the word love for myself. And for people that were interested in paying attention. To me, it was this hopeful attempt, I guess, to push back on the idea, or the constant suggestion that love was a feeling. And that just hadn't been my experience. Certainly, there have been feelings involved, as it were. But love, while it included feelings was just more complex, it was more difficult. It was harder, it was Messier. It was just bigger. And I wanted to write something that actually spoke to maybe the more difficult and messier and poetic slash practical elements and aspects of love. And so I wrote this song that is, as it's recorded, both Sung and screamed, which was part of my experience of love. Here's a clip of that song and how it comes off as it's recorded.

Now, among my existing listeners, love as a song had some legs to it folks really resonated with the song. To some degree, I know they resonated with the energy of the song in this sort of like middle space between folk, and rock. But I think actually, no, my listeners really resonated with that particular expression of love. At what point shortly after the album, that that record was on was released, the song was covered by a rock band, like an actual rock band, and I think actually found a bit more of a home sonically, with this band, they were called Kids in the way. And the way they interpreted the song, it was definitely more full-throated, it was definitely more screaming. And there were electric guitars and drums and the whole mind, and it definitely felt more like that's the spirit of the song. But I've got to say that the peak moment of that songs life, and, and the place it found its home in at least in what I meant by it. When I recorded it came when I was asked to sing that song at a friend's wedding. Now, you just heard a clip of the song and how it comes off. Like I said, it's sort of screamed and sung at the same time. So imagine, if you will, sitting at the wedding of a friend of yours, and watching the ceremony proceed as it normally does. And then coming to the moment of communion, where the pastor or the preacher, whoever is facilitating the moment, invites the crowd to take a few moments of reflection, while the couple takes communions. Normally this very low-key, almost contemplative moment in the ceremony. But that was the moment that my friend asked me to step up to the mic and play that song. Now, I've got to be honest. And if you've been around me long enough, you know, I've definitely had some moments when what I was doing up front, musically just didn't go over with the crowd that I was in front of this was something entirely different because it wasn't just a matter of distaste, there was utter confusion among the attendees of this wedding. And then, during the reception, this friend of mine who had asked me to play that song, during his ceremony, got the chance multiple times to answer the question, because people came to him and said, Hey, was that song he was supposed to play? Did Justin just pick a random song and play it instead of something more appropriate to the moment and what he said was that that had been his experience of love. And he wanted there to be a moment in his wedding ceremony. That said, this is what love sounds like and feels like when it's been real. For me, that was a peak moment. And that songs life, it was also a peak moment in my understanding of the practice of the expression of in the experience of love.

A few years ago, I was asked to lead songs and teach at a church community that I was actually somewhat unfamiliar with. It's a thing I don't do very much, but on the suggestion of and the request of a friend. I planned a few songs to lead and I planned a teaching around their requested topic, which was the love of God. Now, they had suggested and requested that I turn in my notes and my slides ahead of time because they were unfamiliar with me and they wanted to make sure they knew what I was going. So I turned in my notes well ahead of time, and I turned in the slides for the songs that I was doing, most of which were traditional. And again, if you've been around me at all in the last several years in See me song lead. I prefer to lead older traditional songs. And this one particular song that I had included in my setlist, they really wanted to do a different version of It's a song called Nothing but the blood of Jesus. It's a very traditional older him like song that's relatively familiar with folks who are part of the Christian tradition. What they said, though, was that they wanted to do their version of this song. And again, because this is a traditional song that's been sung, and led for many, many years by many, many people in many different contexts. It's a traditional classic song and wanting to do your version of a classic song is like saying, I'd like to do my version of Nikes. Yeah, that's called a knockoff.

Well, when they sent me the lyrics back to the song, their version of this song, they had replaced the word blood with love, so that the song said nothing but the love of Jesus rather than Nothing but the blood of Jesus explaining that they did not like the violent imagery associated with blood. And at first glance, I understood Oh, yes, I get that that's a little bit gross to be singing about blood. But then I actually thought back to this moment, when, during my friend's wedding ceremony, at a point in which we were supposed to have a contemplative moment, during communion, to reflect on the love of God for them, they asked me to sing a song that actually shook the room a little bit about the nature of love. As they stood behind me eating the body, and drinking the blood of Jesus, I sang a song that was a bit toothy-er, a bit messier, a bit more violent. In his epistle, John writes that this is how we know what love is that Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. When John goes to redefine what love is, he actually references the violent moment of the cross. And I honest to goodness, think there is something really important about that definition of love. That certainly there are feelings involved, that certainly it can be a thing that feels good and brings light and joy and happiness. But that if love is to truly be love, it has to meet our humanity, in the whole of our humanity in both our high peak glowy fascinating, glittery, big-eyed, sparkly moments. And in the utter, destructive, terrible depths of our existence, our practice, it has to meet us in both our glory. And in our depraved violence, if that's the kind of love we're talking about, I'm in. And if it's not, if it's something more sentimental, that's fine. It just doesn't meet me as a whole human. If the love of God is to truly be the love of God, for all of humanity, must it not, in some way, speak to the violence that is also true about our nature, which is why I love the image of the cross as an expression of love. It's why I love the life of Jesus on the whole, including the cross, as an expression of love. Are there adorable, cute, big-eyed puppy-like moments? Certainly, there are. And there is also the cross in Oakland, California, just by itself. Last year, there were 125 murders. And that's a small chunk of the nearly 17,000 murders that took place across the country. And then earliest statistics from this year suggests that there are at least 16 gang-related violent crimes perpetuated in Oakland every single day. And that's part of what it looks like. To be human and to belong to the human race. So as I see it, if love is to truly be the kind of reality and power the human heart desires, and not only can't turn a blind eye, to our more violent nature, it has to look at that nature, square in the face and say I can handle that has to look at least in part, like the cross.

So 20 years after the release of that first song called Love, I finally found some words and a melody to really communicate those thoughts in the song is called that's love. Not the most imaginative title, but it works. And I don't screen this time, but I think the energy is still there. It's still a thing I want to see. It's still a thing I want to be Leave about the love of God that is available to me and then helps me make sense of and make something good out of what it means to be human

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Graduation

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 11 Nov 2022 12:00:00 +0000

I’ve long lived with Seth Godin’s suggestion that art is anything you make that forges a connection between people.

Over time, and in that light, I’ve also come to recognize that the depth and sustainability of my professional art life has a lot to do with the particular people I am connected to in/through my work.

Which brings me to my now 12yo son, Asa.

Asa wrote a lot of the melody for the song “Graduation” and is the main vocalist on the finished track. It was the thought of connection with him on this project that really moved me to do it.

Of course, there were many points of connection throughout the whole process (and definitely now, after is release). But what provided the project’s core energy was specifically sharing the writing and recording process with my son.

So, on a personal level, the life in and behind this EP is rooted in the love I have for that remarkable young man, Asa.

And, on a broader scale, I think being able to name/identity specific people is what makes it possible for an Artist (of any kind) to do what they want to do long-term.

Ideas and artifacts can be thrilling. They just don’t give real life.

But

regardless of how effective or well-received or profitable an idea or artifact might be, that experience simply pales in comparison to the deeply grounding experience of human connection.

I risk a bit of overstepping here when I say that we’ve been in a season during which it seems like everything is on fire; that every “issue” and every conversation carries with it the utmost importance. And because of that urgency, not only you should not only know about all of it in detail, you also must see the right details from the correct angle and then (this is key) care about the right things to the correct degree and in the right way.

It’s too much.

So here’s the somewhat scandalous reality I’m living with now:

If what I say I “care about” doesn’t have actual names of actual people attached to it, I’m either faking it or I’m at least a little bit wrong.

Because the human heart doesn’t live on the energy of ideas or even the urgency of causes. The human heart runs on relationship and connection.

Too much of what we mean by “Church” or “religion” became about ideas and artifacts.

Too much of what we mean by “Politics” or “Justice” became about ideas and artifacts.

And too much of our experience in all these areas has been very, very disappointing.

May my disappointment

in myself and in others

lead me to hope and work for change

rather than to the desire

to isolate or distance myself.

And may that change mean a smaller and more personal experience of our own lives. For the sake of the very specific people around us and for our own, very specific souls.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Mine

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 4 Nov 2022 11:00:00 +0000

It used to confuse me when, as people talked about relationships, romantic or otherwise, they would refer to the relationship as, like a third entity, there was the person and a person, or a few people. And then there was the relationship that they're in like it was this other thing. You, me, and then the relationship. But it turns out there's actually something to that. Sometimes what's being referred to by the relationship is this idea of what we should be or what we could be like, if we did this. Well. Sometimes it's a good thing, specifically when that vision is a shared vision. And we're in lockstep and headed in that direction, trying to become that vision, that ideal of what a relationship looks like. But sometimes, the relationship we're referring to and feel responsible for isn't at all reflective of the actuality of the connection between us. It doesn't help us love each other or even see each other.

I can see this clearly. And so often when the relationship we're speaking of is with the church, or just with church, capital C church, circumstances change, so to expectations, heck, the particulars of the social and interpersonal contract, we've entered into change as well. In the end, belonging, like love, is a choice rather than a consequence. This is how we know what love is. As the writer John, Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. Why are you here? Because I choose to be because I'm yours. Because your mind. That's where it gets kind of complicated with the word mine. At the beginning of adolescence, I learned, or I thought I learned, that being possessive was one of the worst things that someone could be in a relationship being possessive was associated with jealousy and suspicion, judgment, and control. It was an entirely negative thing to be possessive to be as, as a boyfriend or girlfriend, or even friend. And yet, the older I've gotten, and the more I've lost relationally, I've grown in the desire to be bound to others, by far more than either my force of will or my effort or bound to others as a reward for my performances. I've longed to know that, even as things change, sometimes dramatically and sometimes sadly, I'm still worth belonging to. I'm worth belonging with. I'm worth someone saying, "You are mine."

I don't entirely reject the lessons of my early adolescence. Still, at the same time, there certainly is something to being identified by someone as essential as part of their life, regardless of any and all things. I really resonate here with the biblical imagery of Christ and Christ's bride. And at the same time, I'm really challenged by this other biblical moment. I am inspired and moreso honestly scandalized. By the way that the writers of the early New Testament, a few of them constantly come back to calling Judas Iscariot, the one who betrays Jesus, one of us. They claim him as ours. Here it is in the book of Luke 22nd chapter. Now, the Festival of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was near the chief priests, and the scribes were looking for a way to put Jesus to death, for they were afraid of the people.

Then Satan entered into Judas Iscariot, who was one of the 12. He went away and conferred with the chief priests and the officers of the temple police about how he might betray him, which is Jesus to them. And then a completely different writer at a different time. They've got Mark 14th Chapter. Immediately, while he was still speaking again, that's Jesus, Judas, one of the 12, came up accompanied by a crowd with swords and clubs, who were the chief priests and the scribes, and the elders. Now he who was betraying him had given them a signal whoever I kiss, he is the one sees him and leads him away under guard. There's no mistaking here that Anytime he's referenced, it's clear that foes acknowledge what he's done, that he betrayed Jesus. He did it with a kiss. It was awful. He sold them out for money. There's no getting around that description of Judas as actions. And yet, this is just to have four or five instances in which folks who are writing about the story of Judas use the phrase, one of the 12. I am scandalized and inspired and moved and challenged by that. Yes. They say he's the betrayer. He's also ours. And that kind of associate of belonging, that kind of commitment to someone, does not have to come along with, In fact, it doesn't come along with the denial of their wrongdoing, much less turning a blind eye and saying, Oh, that's not who they are, or excusing any sort of misstep or injustice or betrayal. It doesn't come along with any of that. It does, though. Reframe those missteps. Reframe those injustices, reframe even those betrayals that, yes, that is part of who they are, that they have done those things, that they have said those things, and they've lived that way. And part of what makes that so tragic is that there's so much more to them, including the fact that they belong to me. And I to them, yes, this is true of them. Also true of them. They're one of ours. And that doesn't come with forgetfulness. It also doesn't come with forgiveness. But maybe that's the kind of posture, the kind of commitment, the kind of relationship that actually makes something like forgiveness possible. That in order to want it bad enough for you to do the work that it takes to actually move you and me to a place of forgiveness, much less restoration. I have to want it. Like I would want it for myself. And maybe that comes with calling you mine

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

War Stories

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:00:00 +0000

I've never really enjoyed fighting. And while I know there might be some folks who come to a different conclusion, depending on their experience of me, the reality is that while I certainly did Hone some skills in the art of argumentation, I've always actually hated what it's cost me to fight. Which brings me to the question, what is worth fighting for? And the truth of the matter is, for the most part, I've lacked a really clear or wisely discerned answer to that question. I could reason the question on a large scale and say things like racial justice is worth fighting for, affordable healthcare is worth fighting for, or clean water is worth fighting for. But when it comes to answering that question, on the scale of my life, my limited life, things get quite a bit foggy here. I've boiled some of the important bits of wisdom I've gained in this area of my life down to these two short poems. The first reads some battles should be lost. That is, sometimes, the best way forward. Losing battles has opened me not only to the wisdom and goodwill of others who are not like me but softened me internally. And now I'd rather listen. Even when I think I'm right, even through someone's rage, to see and to hear and experience what's truly at hand in this other person, because through all the push and the pull over all these years, I look back now. And I see myself sitting across from some brilliant humans with whom I have some disagreements about things that mattered to them as humans. The second bit of wisdom grows from there, and the poem reads, The most regrettable losses of my life are battles I ignored while fighting the ones I shouldn't have been fighting. This came into my life by way of a mentor's advice. During a season in which I was thoroughly exhausted from many battles, he told me that just because there's a hill doesn't mean you should die on it. Maybe you shouldn't even climate unless you know someone up there already. So maybe you've been in or around a large room when the energy of that room shifts to the tension and the shuffle of a fight breaking out. Part of how I learned to know that something was important or worth my attention was that there was anger and strife around it. Tech, that's how the news works, right? Everything has a tinge of discord, or at least as a light threat to it. And that's how we know that it's important because tension, anger, and violence communicate importance. But to add to the strange analogy, I just started with while I'm across the room trying to break up a fight between drunk roommates, acting a fool, and being stupid. I've left the people I initially committed my time to the people I know. The question 'what is worth fighting for?' has taken me on two parallel paths on the one through wins and especially losses. I've become an I am becoming a very different person—one who just isn't fascinated by or drawn to the energy of the war or the fight. I mean, I know I can fight. I've done it a lot. I just don't want to unless I know it's worth it. And even winning doesn't make it worth it. Relationships, and people make it worth it. On the other path, I'm embracing the limited nature of my energies and my time on the planet, that if they're battles worth fighting, if there are wars worth getting into, part of what will make them worth fighting is that there are names real names attached to those battles and in those wars.

The loss and the disintegration of the religious community I called home for nearly 20 years came with a long list of complicated analyses and reasons, and diagnoses. It was ideas and methodologies. Over time, the need or the desire to make sense of what had happened took a backseat to the deep comfort of sharing that life experience with other human beings. As it turns out, it is the shared experience of life with other people that makes any plan or any idea worth executing, to have fought for a good plan or a beautiful idea. And last and then, on the other side of that last battle, to look up and more fully see the people I've been fighting with, and fighting for, or even fighting against. It has often been the sting of loss that snapped my mind. And that kind of clarity and pain can sharpen the mind and demand focus on what matters. I don't think I'm alone in that, which is why I wrote the song war stories. I think there are a lot of us right now stumbling and wandering, bleary-eyed, around the empty spaces of our last battles, the places where our good plans and our beautiful ideas used to exist, and I think it might be enough that we're in that space together. After all, what was the intention of having made the plan or sharing the idea to begin with? If not to gather with other people with whom we agreed and, yes, with whom we disagreed, wasn't connected with other people, the hope to begin with? What if, in order to more deeply and humanly connect, our hands had to be empty of ideas, and of plans, and of quote, things to fight for? What if we had to fall out of love with our schemes and our methodologies in order to fall in love once again, or for the first time with the people who make those schemes and methodologies and causes worth anything at all?

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Why Let Go?

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 16 Sep 2022 11:00:00 +0000

My social landscape does not look the way I expected it to a few years ago. Some of that comes on the heels of religious difference or political disagreement. And as sad as that stuff can be, it's also a bit cliche and predictable.

If I'm being honest, what's been harder, is recognizing that the more I've grown into who I am, and the more distance I've experienced between myself and people I was once connected to - those connections have been harder to let go of, as has been the familiarity I had with my former self. I felt some of these things before I was experiencing something like it in 2004, when I first heard the song, let go. And on the other side of a very strange season, marked by both grief and newness, I found myself liking where I was in life, and also tasting the bitterness of saying goodbye to what had been true, and had been comfortable before. So it is again today, and maybe you resonate with that feeling, I have a feeling you might. So is there beauty in the breakdown. That's what I'm counting on, in my relationships, my friendships, and that hope is part of what moved me in part, to track my interpretation of the song.

In the same way, my religious landscape does not look the way I expected it to a few years ago. And some of that comes on the heels of a healthy and fruitful process of growth and maturity. In fact, most of it actually comes on the heels of such maturity and growth, it's a good thing, that I'm experiencing some distance from what I used to think what I used to believe. Part of that maturation process has come with knowing that in order for God to truly be God, I have to let go of my hold on how I think God works and who I think God is. And I need to mean that prayer of Meister Eckhart in which he writes, God, rid me of God. The struggle here, though, is that I built a fair amount of life around some of those earlier conclusions and assumptions and knowings of God and I also developed some significant emotional practices. In response to what I knew about God, I don't want to be one of those folks who's trying to make Jesus king by force. But it has been difficult, it has been hard to let go of what I used to believe what I used to know and how I used to relate to God because of how much life I built around. What used to be, is there is beauty in the breakdown. That's what I'm counting on. And that hope is part of what moved me in this season to track my interpretation of that song.

My political landscape does not look the way I expected it to a few years ago. I have this key memory of a mentor of mine, saying to me about choosing a party, that yes, it's a conflict and it's a bit of a choice. And it comes with some contentious feelings within your own soul. So he says Pick a party, one that you resonate with maybe a tad more deeply, even though you will never feel fully at home in a political party then be a faithful and lovingly critical part of that party, while being aligned to the principles of the kingdom, which is bigger and deeper and broader and more beautiful than any party platform. And I've tried to do that. I've wanted to not just be a good neighbor, but also to set a tone of neighborliness in an environment that favors rightness and victory instead. But, and the nature and depth of sheer awfulness between human beings over the last few years has left me in a state of relative disorientation. It's not that I don't know who my neighbor is, it's that I don't feel like that word. Or the reality it points to means the same thing, or in some cases means much anything at all, to people around me. Even some of those people that I consider neighbors.

The practice here has been recognizing my experience of other people and the ideas they are moved by as exactly about my experience, to heed some form of wisdom and recognize the limitations of my perspective in relationship to the social world around me, the neighborhood around me, the systems around me, I can only know so much I can only care so much I can only see so far. And to believe that there is a capital S Something capital M more a something more Twitch, all of this striving and arguing and battling, eventually does come home. To believe that there is beauty, not just after, but in the breakdown. See, that's what I'm counting on. And that's part of what has moved me in this season of my life to track this interpretation of this song. It is a song in which I receive and hear a promise. That in the moment of the breakdown, as things are falling apart, as my expectations fall by the wayside, my plans disintegrate before my very eyes as I'm even leaning on my own coping mechanisms, instead of dealing with the reality of life changing in ways that I didn't want it to that there is a hope. I hope without specifics, I hope that there's something better if I can simply let go, of what I wanted, of what I had planned for, and what expected.

Jesus tells the story, this parable, it's one a lot of us are familiar with. It's called the parable of the mustard seed. And this that's the way the editors denoted this particular story in parable. And in Mark, the way it reads is, again, he said, What shall we say the kingdom of God is like what parable show use to describe it. It's like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds on Earth. And yet, when it is planted, it grows, and becomes the largest of all garden plants with such big branches that the birds can perch in its shade. And the elements of this parable for me that just keep coming back are twofold. The one is that it's a really small seed. And it's really easy to make this really cute oh house precious an idea that just this tiny little seed of faith, this tiny little seed can do so much. It's cute until the reality of one's life as actually boiled down to a very little bit of knowledge, a very little bit of hope and a very little bit of any smidgen of plan you might have been holding to begin with, it's a very different thing, when the hope you have for the future really is that small. But the parable takes it even further. Because what Jesus says is yet, when planted, because even that seed, even that little tiny thing that I hold in my hand, I have to put it in the ground and let it go. And trust it to a process that is beyond my knowledge, beyond my power and in many ways beyond my imagining. And that if I can do that, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants with such big branches that the birds can perch in its shade.

These plans I've made and these expectations that I've held to many of which I've built my life around, I'd held to and planned on from good intention. I've wanted to feel cared for and I've wanted to care for the world around me. And the season has come over the last few years in which if I really do want to feel held, I have to let go of the things that I'm holding in order to be held. And if I really do want to care for the world, I have to release the control I have over all these aspects of my life so that I can see those aspects of my life held by the one who holds all things together. I've had to let go and trust that there is a beauty in the breakdown beyond my even wildest and most deeply caring imaginings.

That's what I'm counting on.

And that is why in part, in this season of my life I've chosen to track this interpretation of the song

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Art As Self-Discovery (and the new EP)

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 2 Sep 2022 11:00:00 +0000

When I first started playing music professionally, it wasn't the beginning of a dream. It wasn't the culmination of a wish from my youth, not really. I thought of playing music. I thought it would be cool. But it's probably most true to say about that moment, the moment in which I decided to see what it would be like to have a career in music was that it was another step. And a long trajectory of vocational decision-making that wasn't about a particular career. So it wasn't about I really want to play music, or I really want to perform.

It was always about connecting with people.

And finding the best way to do that for me, before I started playing music professionally in 1998, I'd been on Young Life staff for about five years. And during that stretch from 1993, to 1998, I also picked up some jobs as a teacher. I was looking for ways to connect with people to give myself away with the best of my gifts, my talents, and my energies.

Over the course of time, that made it kind of easy to let go of some of the musical orientation of my career, as I started being hired for retreats as a speaker and then started passing myself on as a coach. And as a spiritual director. It's always been about connecting with people.

And as I've grown in my ability, my capacity or even in my skill, to actually make those connections, as a songwriter or as a pastor, or as a coach, or as an author, something magical has happened because one of the persons I connect with most deeply in the better work I make is me.

And maybe that sounds weird to say. I hope it doesn't. Maybe that actually resonates with you that one of the persons I become more familiar with, one of the persons I learned to like more, one of the persons that actually is helped in my better work is me.

In my better work, I recognize and get to celebrate the work that God has established in me. I get to notice and pay attention to the work that God is doing in me. I get to see me in a context of the story being written in and through my life. The art making, for me, began as a way to bless other people, to make other people laugh, to help other people to inform, and to inspire other people. And along the way, I have learned to be blessed. And to laugh, to be helped to be informed, and to be inspired, even in my own process of making. Which brings me to the most recent project; I've put together this five-song EP that I'm calling a sliver of hope. You might have heard an artist or someone who coaches artists or someone in the art world say, "Make the work that you need to or want to see in the world." These songs are the songs that I wanted to hear. These are words and melodies, and expressions that I've needed. And so I've put them together because I feel it in me. I need that sliver of hope as I pay attention to the world around me and in me and how so much has changed dramatically. And how unsure the future is, I found myself giving up on the idea of a plan. I don't want to look for a big fat plan and the strategy and a methodology. What I want to see, what I'm looking for, is the seed of a future, a future that is surprising, a future that grows organically. And because of care rather than strategy, a future that has life in itself and isn't dependent upon machinery to keep it alive. I'm looking for that sliver of hope. And so I've written a series of songs about the desire in me to not only let go of what I've had in the past so that I can make room in my heart for the future, but also what might be necessary for me in order to actually participate in that future, including the kinds of relationships partnerships institutional and personal that I will want, and want to share that future with. So I hope that this particular work does connect with you. That is part of why I've made it. It's part of why I wrote the songs. It's certainly why I'm making them public. But also, these are songs I needed. These are songs I needed to hear. These are words I needed to be in the world, as has been the case since I've been aware of it. I got to discover something established in me as I put the songs together, something God's been up to. I'm also attending to things that God is working on in me and working those things out in song. And I think you'll hear that. I think you might even feel that as you engage with this new project, and maybe you'll resonate with it for the same reasons that I made it. The big plan laid at my feet that says this is how things go from here on, and here's the evidence of things working out exactly the way they're supposed to be, what I really want and what I think you might want to and maybe that's why you would come to a project like this or a podcast like this. I just want to see that there is a seed of hope for a future beyond my imagining and way more beautiful than my designs.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Changing the Narrative About Church Attendance

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 19 Aug 2022 11:00:00 +0000

So I've been really enjoying this new feature of the podcast, taking a question from my Monday q&a sessions at Instagram, and digging just a tad deeper into one of those questions, specifically, those questions when you seem to resonate with those questions and my response. This past week, I got a question that I've been around and asked a lot as a question by somebody who asked "Why do churches struggle with attendance?" It's like I said; it's a question I've been around for a long time. I pastored or helped pastor church for 20 years, and questions about attendance and why people show up or why they don't show up. Pretty regular, comprehensive conversation, especially as time went on. At some point during my tenure as a church staff person, we were looking at numbers gathered by experts in church culture, church attendance, etc. And the numbers that jumped out to us were that while the population of the United States of America had grown by something like 11%, church attendance had fallen off by something like 25 to 27%, I don't remember the exact source.

But those numbers stood out to us as we're having these conversations early on. And what the numbers did was force or invite, forcefully invite a pretty serious set of questions that led to a good long season of self-examination. And during that season, the question about church attendance became far less general and way more specific to us. Because what we discovered during our soul searching was that particular cultures, particular cities, and particular people's reasons for attaching themselves or detaching themselves for showing up, for not showing up, for never coming for never coming again, tend to vary from moment to moment, season to season, sometimes year to year or week to week, and certainly culture to culture. They were highly specific reasons. And there were commonalities between stories we were hearing from other pastors in different parts of the country. But the particulars were actually really important because, after a moment or two, we didn't want to try to deal with a trend. We wanted to care for the people in front of us. That's what we came to; over the course of that season of self-reflection, I didn't want to fix the problem of church attendance. I didn't want to solve the riddle of why people were not going to church in general.

In general, I wanted to know how to care for the people in front of me, how to care for how to minister to them, and how to be a pastor to the folks right there. In the city that I belong to, it became specific because it's supposed to become specific. The general question about church attendance as a broad trend can be helpful only to a certain degree, and then it just becomes really distracting. And in that distraction, too many of us get suckered in by these grand narratives about what's going on. And some of those grand narratives are flat-out dangerous and ugly, which leads me to this. You may have heard it said that this is a generation of people who are leaving God, who have turned their back on God, who no longer desire the things of the kingdom, which puts the entire onus on what might be happening in the hearts, the mind lives, the bodies, the households of the people who no longer show up to the particular product we have been doing out since the 1930s that we now call church the issue is with them, there's something wrong out there that they don't show up here. I would like to flip that script. What if we're not talking about people turning their back on God? What if we're talking about people who no longer see God in particular ways that our particular expression of church describes, hosts, or celebrates, and that what isn't happening is that they're leaving God and no longer want anything to do with the things of the kingdom or the things of God, but instead, these are people who are looking. And if they've turned their eyes anywhere, they have turned their eyes into spaces where they hope, sometimes actively, sometimes unconsciously, they hope and expect to be met by a God who is everywhere, God who is not limited by the particular expression of a particular culture of people who have been doing church in a particular way since the 1930s 1940s.

What if what we're bearing witness to is a kind of awakening, a challenge and an invitation, a somewhat forceful invitation? For those of us who have lived in and desire and desire to live in church leadership to take a step back. And instead of asking the question, what is wrong? Ask the question, what is happening? It's a more hopeful question to ask the question of what is as opposed to why isn't the way it was the question of where are people headed, as opposed to why are people leaving, it does two things for me really, specifically, as a human, as a Christian, as someone who desires longs to actually lead people that actually presented an image of the people that I want to love, as mature and whole, and real and complex? People who are worth spending our time on as opposed to mindless consumers who just need a better pitch so that they might come back? No, what if there's something truly good, beautiful happening in the hearts, the minds of souls, the bodies of households of these people, and they're on the search for a way to connect with God that makes sense of what's happening in their lives?

Also, if God is everywhere, and God is everywhere, doesn't that free me from the responsibility of creating a place that is sufficient for clarifying the work of God for someone? Instead, I can be more like Philip, who, in the eighth chapter of Acts, comes alongside the chariot of a man from a completely different culture with a completely different language and who is having a unique experience of God right there in the chariot, and who stood there long enough to listen to pay attention to what was happening in the chariot, before then being invited into that chariot that foreign space to which Philip had previously not belong? There wasn't Phillips chariot. It was The Eunuch's chariot. It was the Ethiopian's chariot. And as he sat in that chariot and asked questions about what the unit was experiencing in reading, he was then invited into that Unix process because God was up to something before Philip showed up. What if the challenge in this moment is not to figure out what we're doing wrong in our institutions, in our spaces, and in our methodologies, but instead to figure out what good true, and beautiful thing is happening in the world around us, that people are being drawn to that we might come alongside some of these chariots and ask questions about the wild and loving and endless and perfect work of the Divine manifesting itself everywhere.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Frog and Toad and Work and Rest

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 12 Aug 2022 11:00:00 +0000

You've probably had the bad experience that I had recently, that I'm about to tell you a story about, in which when your mind is already focused on something. You're already thinking about something regularly, and you start noticing it or connections to it everywhere. That happened the other night while I was reading a book to my daughter to help get her to sleep. I am in the process of editing and finishing this book called Sacred Strides, which will come out in 2023, about belovedness, about discovering my belovedness through both rest and work. My daughter, who's five right now, picked a pair of stories for me to read. And one of those stories was Lobos Classic Collection, The Adventures of Frog and Toad. I don't know how familiar you are with the stories, but they're brilliant. They're hilarious. They're well written, and there's wisdom in the stories that sneaks up and pinches me every once in a while, including this moment. So the story specifically is called the garden. And in that story, Toad notices Frog's garden, and it's going really well. And he asks how he, too, can have a garden. He wants a beautiful garden. So Frog, in all his generosity, hands, Toad some seeds and tells him that like once he plants them, he'll have a garden, and then he uses the phrase quite soon. So Toad immediately runs home to plant those seeds. And then, just as immediately, he starts yelling at those seeds to sprout and grow. And predictably, they don't. Frog comes running in response to all the noise that Toad is making because he's screaming at the seeds. And very kindly lets his friend know that you can't scream at the seeds. "You're going to scare them." So he tells them in a number of ways that he needs to give those seeds time to grow. But then Toad does the opposite. And it goes through any number of ways to try to get those seeds to grow on his own with his own efforts, he reads them by candlelight, and they don't grow. He sings to them, and they don't grow. He reads them poetry, and they don't grow. And no matter what he does or how he performs, he simply can't manage to get the seeds that he just planted to grow. He does, though, in his efforts, managed to wear himself completely out, and he falls asleep. Eventually, he's woken by his friend frog. And it looks to the ground and finds that, as promised, those seeds had sprouted and began to break through. And then the conversation goes something like this at last shouts, "Toad, my seeds have stopped being afraid to grow." And now says Frog, "You'll have a nice garden too. Yes, Toad." It was hard work. See, that's pretty much how my journey towards belovedness in work and rest went. I was committed really early on to newness and to growth. Because I came through the doorway of evangelicalism, and I'm thankful that I did. My initial practice of faith was galvanized by an energized and by the desire to build to make to pass on to communicate. That's where all the energy was.

And that desire to work well and effectively was a good one. But I misread the invitation See, I've been handed those seeds of the reference, the story of time and talent and passion, and invited into a process that would actually provide a loving home for my entire soul. And not just the use of my talents and my gifts and strengths, I came into the doorway of usefulness. I was told and taught that it was essential and good to pass on what I had been given, and it is, but I wasn't invited into this just to be a good instrument for the machine. No know my strengths and talents get to participate in the good work already having like seeds planted in the ground, I get to participate, I get to share but actually get to participate and share. I don't get to make it happen - No matter how I perform, no matter how I execute, no matter how loud I am. I can't shake seeds awake and into growth that aren't ready and whose time has not come. What I get to do is they get to share in that process, I share in the story, and I get to share in the work that is already at hand. This is a massive shift for me in my life, and it's the one I am now trying to pass on as best I can and books like It Is What You Make Of It. And the upcoming book called sacred strides. That there's a word Already at hand that you and I are invited into to share in not because you're useful, although you might find yourself really helpful times, but because you're actually beloved, what I've come to believe in and through the practice of work, and rest, is that the one who holds all things together has invited you and I into this beautiful process of things being reconciled, made right more whole, and into a story that actually does have a good end - that I don't have to function with the anxiousness of proving myself, much less the anxiousness of having to get it right, less all things fall apart. What I'm beginning to hear in the work, and in the rest, is a voice that doesn't say something like, "Come on, we've got work to do, we've got to get it done, or this is all going to hit the floor." I hear something more like this, "Slow down, wake up a little bit, and see what's already growing. Because that's how I've made this all to work, and I want you to join me in it. No, I don't want you to stop singing, and I don't want you to stop reading or playing or writing. I want you working while knowing that your work is a way to share in this life with me, with yourself, and with those you love. I also want you to know that when you don't work, either because you can't or because you've happily chosen not to that, you still share in this life with me yourself and those you love me the growth and newness in your soul and in mine, as well as the growth and newness in the soil that you and I work on." Be an expression of an outpouring of who we are, rather than an anxious response to what needs to be done. We are beloved ones, invited into a work of love by one who loves us.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Work/Life Balance

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 5 Aug 2022 11:00:00 +0000

I want to spend a few moments dissecting and maybe even dismantling this phrase. This idea that comes up in coaching conversations and has come up for a long, long time. In my 20-plus years in pastoral ministry as an artist and is the phrase work-life balance. I've got a lot of issues with this. And not just theoretical, but more so as a practical reality. So I'll start where I'm going to end and basically say that there is no such thing as a work-life balance, and more to the point, that the ideas that lead us to talk about work-life balance are not just toxic, they're destructive, and they're anti-human.

So, I don't like the phrase.

First of all, because it puts a line somewhere between work and life as if there's this thing called life that we're living. And that work is a thing that gets in the way of life; I've actually had conversations with artist friends who will actually flip this terminology on its head. And they'll talk about how life gets in the way of work. And what has been meant by that? And way too many conversations is that being a dad gets in the way of making art or being a husband or being a neighbor or that being anything other than a working person gets in the way of work.

So life gets in the way of work; it puts life anything else that doesn't work somehow in competition with life. Now with a lot of other folks with folks who work at nine to five jobs and cubicles, sometimes the way this conversation goes is that work is this necessary evil that I have to do to support my quote-unquote, life. And folks who live in that place for too long and wear themselves out. I don't think there is such a work-life balance because I don't think there is a division between work. And life work should be an outpouring of our whole lives. And life should be this menagerie of experiences, obligations, freedoms, and expressions enriched by the work we do with our hands and our time with talent. I bristle at the notion that work and life are somehow a competition or are separate things. They are intertwined. They're not opposites. They're in relationship with one another. The word balance is the other massive hang-up I have with this phrase work-life balance. I don't think that's a reality at all. I think that works in mathematics. I think it works with physical objects. But with a human life, I don't think balance is a healthy goal at all, not even close.

Instead, I think about our lives, priorities, obligations, freedoms, and expressions. They work in seasons. I actually hear the word balance. When we talk about life, when we say work-life balance, what I actually hear a saying oftentimes, is that I intend to or want to somehow keep all of my relationships, all of my obligations, and all of my commitments equally happy all of the time. And that kind of commitment or dream or idea will tear you to shreds and leave you miserable, and leave most of the things in your life have done or done poorly. Instead, I think there are seasons for full investment in things at the cost of other things. In other words, and this is a really, really rough example. But there are times when I have to look my kids in the face and say I'm going to be gone for ten days. And I don't get to be a full-time present dad because I'm somewhere else in the country or in the world, doing a work of my life that I hope enriches the world that I belong to. And that I'm called to for that, "season" for that ten days. So that two weeks, I can't be both places at the same time, that is a season in microcosm during which I have to be focused somewhere else. Now, panning back out. I actually think that happens over the course of years and over the course of months for sure. When there are times, and there are seasons when it's actually important for you and me to look at what is happening in front of our faces and say, "This is the season in my life during which I'm going to have to focus on this particular aspect of my life at the cost of others. I have to invest in my work during this season of my life. Yes, at the cost of the time I would spend with my friends with my family, with my neighbors."

And there's a time to say that during this season, "I'm going to give myself over more completely to my kids, to my neighbors, to my loved ones, and to my friends to my community at the cost of the work that I could get done during that same time." I don't think It's possible to do all those things all the time, equally well, on every single day. I think it happens in seasons. And as I've moved away from the idea of balance towards seasons, I found myself much healthier, much happier. And doing all of the things that I actually do with my time, my life, my talents, and my relationships far more joyfully because I recognize the season that I'm in, and I get to plan for the seasons that I know are coming.

Here's what I mean by that.

Right now, we're coming towards the tail end of the summer. My summers, because I'm a dad of a 12-year-old and a five-year-old, during this broad season in my life, during which I get to be a dad to a 12 and five-year-old, while my summers just are not productive work times. And because I recognize the broad season as a father, and the particular season, summer, I just don't pressure myself the way we might have; if I was trying to achieve balance, I'm just not going to get as much done. What I also know, though, is that there is a season coming because I know my patterns, because I've been living in seasons during the fall and definitely as the winter sets in, where I'm going to be able to take whatever ideas pop up during this time. And they're going to have their time, their attention. Because during the fall and during the winter, my emphasis changes. And during the winter, I get to take a deep dive into some really interesting projects. I know that I'm going to have that time. So because I know I live in seasons, I'm not bummed out that during the summer, I'm not being as work productive. And then in the winter, I know I can be more project-focused, I can dig deep into some creative idea that I've been maybe dreaming about, and have tension about through the summer and early fall. Because I'm living in seasons, I know that there's a season coming for the things that I want to do, regardless of what that thing is. I want to spend time with my kids and have those days when they know that they have me all day long. And I'm not going anywhere. I have nothing else to do but have fun with you. I also want to give myself over completely to the projects and the ideas that dream in my heart, my soul, and my mind because I want to make beautiful works in the world. And I get to give those projects as ideas, actual time, because I know there's a season for them. If I was living with the promise, the expectation of a life-work balance, I would steal joy from all aspects of my life, instead of giving all aspects of my life their due time in the season

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Mike Edel

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 22 Jul 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Mike Edel is a very talented singer, songwriter, and producer from Canada. And full disclosure a dear friend of mine, he's also which is a gift to me, a client. He's someone I've had the privilege of coaching over the last couple of years. And as I am with many of my clients, I'm really proud of the work they do, the work they've done. And the way they have over the course of last year and a half to two years navigated the COVID-19 pandemic. It's been a tough time to be an artist. In the early spring of 2001, Mike was touring down the West Coast, in a van with his wife, and they popped in here actually, in my neighborhood hung out with my kids. And we had a great afternoon. And we recorded this conversation that was about navigating COVID as an artist that was about navigating life, post marriage as an artist, and because of this was just then pregnant about navigating life as an artist, with a child in tow and incoming and all the complications, and difficulties and opportunities that come with all those things.

Then, a few weeks after that conversation, on that tour, Mike suffered a stroke. Now, as would be the case for any professional having a stroke changes the trajectory of your life, especially depending on the severity of the stroke reorients the way you talk between your brain in your body and specifically as a guitar player, as a performer as a singer, Mike had to learn to walk again, much less learn to play the guitar again, that stroke not only ended that tour threatened to end his career. Now, there's a part two to this. You're gonna listen to that conversation right now that we had before that stroke happened in the dreams in the drive the things that make me a fan of Mike Edel, and his music. And then you have the opportunity to check out part two of this story of Mike's not in this podcast. But in the documentary film that Mike is releasing called casseroles and flowers, about being on the road about all those things that we had talked about during the conversation and then about not just navigating, but renegotiating a life after a stroke as a professional artist. It's a beautiful film.

He's a beautiful musician. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. And I really hope you check out that documentary film.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Burnout

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Last week, I introduced a new element to the podcast; namely, bringing part of my Instagram Q&A sessions to this space and providing a longer answer to some of the deeper or, in my opinion, more pressing questions.

On Monday, during the Q&A, this question really stuck out to me:

“How do we manage over-pouring ourselves when there is an unending well available?”

It might be worth noting here, particularly for listeners who aren’t as familiar with some religious terminologies, that this “ unending well“ is a reference to some of the teachings of Jesus in which he promises a kind of well within those who follow him and know him. For instance in John chapter 4, Jesus says “whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become a spring of water welling up to eternal life.“

Now, while the dilemma of giving oneself away “too much“ isn’t just a consideration for the religious, I think that Jesus‘s teachings here have quite a bit to say, which I’ll come back around to.

The fear or concern of overextending ourselves is actually a conversation I have quite a bit with the clients I coach. Among both artists and ministers, burnout is a really common theme and an overlap between those two vocations. I don’t know what the numbers are for those who claim to the artists but I do know that a recent study of ministers found that over 60% of pastors polled identified burnout.

That’s really sad.

Part of what I’ve come to believe is that the primary question here doesn’t have as much to do with “how much“ I’m giving myself away; it has more to do with where and to whom or to what I am giving myself away. I’m going to assume you’ve had similar experiences in this way; I can tell you for certain that there have been times when I have given considerable amount of my energy to a particular group or person in a particular context and then left feeling energized and full. Not that I wasn’t tired, per se. I just wasn’t worn out. I didn’t feel wasted or used. Conversely, I have been in situations where I’ve offered far less of myself and left feeling exhausted, wiped out, and really low.

The difference is context. In one scenario, my soul resonated with the culture and the people in the work. In the other scenario, I felt more like an instrument being used rather than a person who belongs.

Now, finding ourselves in somewhat transactional and utilitarian contexts Is pretty much unavoidable; that is the shape of most industries and, if we are honest, a whole lot of relationships. And that brings me right back to the initial question which was “what does one do?”

First, as I noted, I think this feeling or experience can serve as a kind of benchmark moment in which I can make an honest evaluation of the places and people to whom I am giving myself (and namely the better parts of myself). It can be an invitation to self-knowledge rather than just a problem to be solved.

Once I can see it that way, and start to do the work of evaluating my work life for the places I am “pouring myself out,“ that is the place where having a coach or a spiritual Director can be really helpful. For a lot of us who experience burnout, the line between what is truly joyful work and what is simply obligation with decent compensatory rewards is either too thin to notice or may be completely eroded.

I’m a relatively high responsibility person and I want to do well by those who ask me for my time or my talents or my energy or my resources. That said, I will only live so long and I don’t have an endless supply of those things.

Which brings me back to that teaching of Jesus. I don’t think the invitation here is that, once you are “in Christ,“ you have an endless reservoir of energy to tap into, regardless of what it is you want to apply that energy to. I think the invitation here is to actually be “in Christ“ first; to live and relate an offerer oneself the way Jesus did. It is absolutely worth noting that Jesus did not give himself way to just anybody at whatever point. He was strangely and often mysteriously selective. Remember that he chose 12 people to live that three years of life with. Note, also, that he didn’t “pour himself out endlessly” but chose a particular season (that 3-year period I just mentioned). Also, there were people he chose to not engage with and whole towns he decided to avoid because of the cultural, emotional, political environment.

Also, and most vitally, note that Jesus regularly rested. He left at times and made room to be entirely by himself, connected to his Source and separated even from the most life-giving of his relationships.

In other words, I think a significant part of what makes this all problematic is the idea that I could, if I were healthy or more religious or more efficient or whatever, be endlessly available and have fewer or no limits.

The invitation and opportunity here is to live more like Jesus, who waited until somewhat deeper into his life before he applied the best of his energies to the work in front of him, chose a small group of people to do that with, and took regular breaks from that work along the way.

I am currently in the process of writing and editing a book on this very topic because i think the temptation to limitlessness and utility is as powerful as ever and I’d like to help. The book will be called “Sacred Strides” and I hope it helps. I hope this episode helped, too.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Is Going To Church A Priority?

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Part of how I answered the question on Instagram was to say that it depends on what my priorities are.

Here’s what I mean:

“Church,” as I understand it, is largely a way to intentionally practice the Divine gift of life with other people. Certainly, there are facets of regular church attendance that means I can “worship” God, particularly in music and that I can learn or be taught. I also get to join other people in efforts to act justly in the world. But those aspects of what we’ve called “church” over the past 40-70 years at least are pretty accessible without regularly gathering with the same people. Which is to say, I think the thing that makes “going to Chruch” irreplaceable (if it is) is that I can create a stainable and predictable life pattern with people withwhom I want to do those things; to worship God with these particular people or learn and be taught with and by these particular people, to do justice with these particular people.

So, if it’s the people part of going to Church that is irreplaceable and essential, then my priority has to be relationship.

Part of practicing that gift means being in a place where I can be supported and helped and challenged and guided. It also means being somewhere I can be a support and a help, and a guide.

In other words, if my “priority” is to get some of the things a church expression offers, the “people part” is going to seem like an obstacle at some point.

And that’s.. problematic.

Because if there is anything consistent about our poor practice of “Church,” it is the treatment of people as anything other than people, particularly as a means to any kind of end. Whether that’s institutional leadership treating congregates like points in some kind of cultural game or congregates treating church staff folks like vending machines or search engines or anything other than emotionally complicated and precious children of God.

A friend of mine on the east coast recently remarked that close to 70% of the people who left their congregations during the pandemic never returned to that same congregation. A good number of those people went to other congregations, but another good-sized group of people simply didn’t return.

There is a good bit of analysis being done by experts right now about why folks aren’t going back to church if they were attending. Here’s what I understand: That, having prioritized the features of the church as a product, a lot of people discovered they could get those same features online or without being mixed up in the mess of people. In other words, after years of conversations about not being too focused on our programs, a lot of church cultures were exposed for being too dependent on programming. In the long run, I think that’s a good thing; it forces a moment of deep reconsideration and the opportunity to bet on resurrection and newness. Good leaders don’t want live how we’ve lived. They care too much about people and want to see folks grow in faith and love.

I think there are a lot of good leaders who are actively (even if a tad precariously) in the very beginning stages of a very difficult and very necessary reinvention of what it looks like to “do and (more vitally) be church.“

See, along with the things that have been exposed about church culture, what has also been revealed is that there are many whose critique of Church practice actually comes from a place of growth and maturity; one might even consider it a fruit of the Spirit’s work in God’s people. These are folks who are ready to take into their grasp what they can wisely and lovingly get their hands and hearts around and help make something new with it.

So, if your priority is to be a part of that process, then now is a good time to “get in,” and “going to church” makes sense as a priority. But if your interest is in getting something like what was being offered before, I fear you might not get what you want and not only be disappointed; more than that, you might end up making that process of rethinking, reimagining and newness at least a bit harder for the complicated and precious beloved ones you’d find there.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Kevin Sweeney

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 19 May 2022 11:00:00 +0000

My son and I recently went to see the most recent Marvel release. It's a movie about Dr. Strange. He's one of the primary characters in the Marvel Universe. And he is, according to his title, a master of the Mystic Arts, which begs a little bit of a question about what mystic is. See in the films, him being the master of mystic arts is manifested in the ability to open portals to different universes or cast spells that send power waves that knock over buildings or enemies. My son and I had a really interesting conversation about mysticism and religion and spirituality and what makes it thing spiritual and what makes a thing mystic, after the film, I found myself referring to things that I discussed with Kevin Sweeney. During this conversation you're about to hear, Kevin's book, The Making of a Mystic is a really interesting take on his journey towards mysticism, and his practice of those things that we might call or might not call depending on who you are. mystical. I think you will enjoy this conversation. I think you'll be challenged by it. I really enjoyed it.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Natalie Toon Patten

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:00:00 +0000

While the experiences of displacement and disorientation play such a significant role in conversations about cultural place, institutional belonging, and even interpersonal relationship. I am moved and inspired not only by the stories of those who endure and triumph over that sense of displacement or dislocation but in fact sometimes even choose displacement and the adventure of relocation in order to awaken some kind of new spirit in them and in the world around them.

My guest Natalie Toon Patten is one such person who has been removed who's been displaced, has been in fact cast out from certain cultures, and then has chosen the adventure of relocation in order to readjust, replace, reroute, and reorient herself to a world in which she longs to belong and create belonging or a sense of belonging for others. I enjoyed our conversation and I think you will too.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

John J Thompson

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 21 Apr 2022 19:00:00 +0000

For a number of years, my favorite event in the country was The Festival of Faith and Music in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The festival host, a gentleman named Ken Hefner would stand up in front of headlining artists' audiences and challenge those audiences to be as prepared for the show, as the band that we were about to see. He would say, "That you would expect this band to have brought their A-game with regard to performance. I'm asking you if you brought your A-game with regards to listening."

Stephen Covey, who's the writer of the book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People is quoted as saying that most people do not listen with the intent to understand they listen with the intent to reply.

You've been in those conversations when the person listening to you is really just paying attention so that they can say what they've already planned on saying, along with people like Ken Hefner, John J. Thompson has spent the lion's share of his career trying to and coaching people to listen differently. Beyond trying to simply understand, much less reply. John J. Thompson believes that listening can be and most of the time is a transformative experience. I got to catch up with John at the White Owl festival just outside of Nashville, Tennessee not too long ago, and I really enjoyed our conversation. I think you will too.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Bodies, Dancing and Bad Religion

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:00:00 +0000

One of my favorite characters in all of literature is from a Dostoevsky novel called The Brothers Karamazov. The character's name is Father Zosima. Father Zosima doles out wisdom throughout the course of the book and its particular instance stands out to me, it's one of the moments that solidifies him as a favorite character. He's counseling. a congregant, who is not just detached from and losing touch with theologically, a sense for the resurrection or even the embodied incarnation of Jesus, but is lamenting that loss. She's no longer believing that God became a human being was crucified, was raised from the dead, and she's lamenting this loss as a personal one in her life. And Father Zosima, instead of prescribing some sort of a theological treaty, some sort of book, some sort of study, or even prayer. When she says, "What should I do about this lack of faith in Jesus, and the resurrection", he says, "Feed the poor". That's confounding in some ways. And on the other side of the coin, it is revelatory and beautiful. The more I talk with therapists, including physical therapists, I keep hearing the same thing I hear when I talk to dancers is that there is a sad reality to the detachment we feel particularly among the religious from our own bodies. A distance from the actual vessel in which we live our lives, even sometimes a full-blown disrespect. That the way we practice our religion, the way we practice our lives, comes really close to denying the physical reality of the body we live life in. I'm recording this on the Tuesday of Holy Week, of the end of this week, Christians like me will celebrate the physical death and the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the central truth of Christianity. And yet, as a religion, that predicates the entirety of its truth, on the physicality of God, we really do struggle with bodies. Even the Incarnation and the physical death and resurrection of Jesus is often talked about and treated like a necessary act, rather than a joyful expression. That God had to become a human and hadn't to die, and then be raised in the body. It was something that God had to do, rather than a joyful choice. Which then really does show up in a culture in which we have to live in these bodies, and don't choose to live in them with joy. This brings me to this short reflection, this Holy Week 2022. Yes, there is a massive departure from the physical spaces in which people regularly used to show up to celebrate, to worship, to learn about, and to meet with the God that holds all things together. Yes, there is a mass exodus. And you've heard me reflect on this same dilemma, the same crisis, the same reality a few times. I wonder if part of why that is is not just because there's corruption in different corners of our culture. And fewer and fewer people are willing to put up with that corruption in order to belong somewhere. But also because we just don't dance enough. And we don't share meals enough. And we spend far too much time and physical proximity to one another and to our neighbors, ignoring, bypassing, and even degrading the physical reality of our lives. And maybe what all of that adds up to is this, that a God that does not recognize, celebrate and enjoy the physical reality of human life simply isn't a god worth paying attention to, at all. And if that's the God we're presenting, if that's the God we're celebrating, if that's the God we're worshiping, then maybe it's no wonder the folks who are looking for something else.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Camille Sutton

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 7 Apr 2022 11:00:00 +0000

One of the surprising benefits changes fruits in me, that have come from partnering with folks who work in the anti trafficking world has been a different understanding and a deeper understanding what it means to live in the body, or in a body. For instance, partnering with Amy Lynch here in the San Francisco Bay Area, who through her organization helps to create pathways to healing for girls who've been rescued out of trafficking.

One of the things she said during our conversations was that there are things that happen in the human body joys and traumas that can't be thought through. They can't be reasoned through, they can really only be worked out bodily. Which brings me to the subject of dance. I got the gift and privilege of seeing Camille Sutton, choreograph and dance at The Breath in the Clay a couple years ago. And I was moved not just by her performance and by her choreography, but by the way, the room was simply arrested, captured and challenged to pay attention in a way that music, movies or any other medium or type of art just doesn't quite get to. I had the pleasure of recently talking with Camille about her work, her history, her philosophy and her hope for what dance can and should do in our culture religiously and otherwise.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Reinvention, Art, and Good Religion

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 24 Mar 2022 11:00:00 +0000

A few episodes ago, I shared a short story about being what I called misnamed at an event. The organizer called me a singer/songwriter when I was there to speak. Now, part of that setup for me emotionally was I was actually in the process of reinventing. I had been playing music for many, many years. And I had been speaking a little bit at the time but paying attention to what was going on in me, honoring what was happening in me, and honoring the things that people around me were responding to. I recognized that I was in a moment of reinvention. The one side of that story that I told him was that I wanted to be called something else, I wanted to be called an author, I wanted to be called a speaker instead of a singer-songwriter. Well, there's another side to that. Because sometimes that reinvention process, and sometimes those reinvention moments or seasons come with a bit of grief. And that for two reasons. Maybe there was part of who I was before, how I functioned before what I did before, even primarily did before that I have to put down to become what's coming next, that I actually will miss. And I'll grieve that, that I really liked being that singer-songwriter. But the season has changed, and I have to do something else. Maybe it's sad for me to let go of what I thought was what I hoped I would do with those skills or those talents. The other part of it has to do with disappointing people. And you've seen this play out where someone will change their musical style, someone will change up their fashion. And the folks who had been paying attention to them offering their time their money don't like the new version. Everyone's heard the stories about Bob Dylan coming out with an electric guitar, and all the chaos ensued. Following that first electric set, similar things have happened to bands like you to, or Kanye West, even the Beatles, or Stevie Wonder, when the time came for them to honor the existing and ongoing change in them as artists, the people paying attention to them, were disappointed, I'm going to suggest that that kind of risk, that that kind of bravery to reinvent is necessary for a long term career in the arts. And if Seth Godin is right, that art is anything we create that forges a relationship between people. That risk of reinventing and disappointing people is necessary for any good work in the world. I coach artists and ministers, and entrepreneurs. And pretty much everyone on my roster right now is in some reinvention phase. They're looking at the skills, talents, abilities, and time they have had until now and trying to figure out what to do with them next. And some of the deepest grief I'm experiencing is from folks who have been trying to practice religion publicly, trying to lead spiritually in public, and are having to reinvent that particular form of art, not only because of the level of disappointment they experienced by their tribes, persons but also because among the people that I know who lead spiritually, it is a really deeply personal expression. Titles like pastor or minister get rooted in people's hearts, souls, minds, skin. It is who you are, and changing the title, the function of that job, or work becomes a challenge to that person's identity. If I do this differently, maybe I'm not who I used to be. And that can be scary. Which takes me back to that moment. At that conference, the person up front called me a singer-songwriter instead of an author. The reality was at the core of things; I'm neither one of those things. Those are expressions. I'm not an author. I do write books. I'm not a singer/songwriter. I do write songs, and I sing them. I'm an artist, which is to say, I don't make music because music needs to be made. And I don't write books because books need to be made. I make music. And I write books to forge a relationship between people, between myself and people, between myself and myself at times, between people and the God that holds all things together. So among the religious and those who lead in religious settings, perhaps words like pastor or minister, or even church, become traps. Because those words come in certain shapes. A pastor does this looks like this works these hours. Church happens at this time on this day in this way. And when the season comes, that calls on us to be brave. And to take the risk to do and be and act differently. We have to let go of what was to make room for what is coming and what is new. And yes, that comes with grief. Yes, that comes with fear. But we didn't get into the ministry work of pastoring and the church because we wanted to be ministers and pastors and have churches. In the same way that an artist doesn't get into music, painting, or storytelling, because they want to just paint and just tell stories and make music.

It's about connection. It's about people. It's about love. It's about how do I best communicate reality? What's going on in me? Honor, the truth. Honor, the beauty, honor the goodness going on in me. How do I best communicate that? And how do I best set up a guide, help assist champion and celebrate that same work in the lives of others? It is now and has been for a while, a season at a time of reinvention for religion in America. Things are going to be different. And the choice on the table in front of us is to either honor the change that is already happening in us as persons or honor the desire. Those around us for something new/ something different, or we will hold to those old patterns and miss the moment in fear of our own grief.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Christa Wells

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 11:00:00 +0000

Reinvention is one of the hallmarks of a long-term career as an artist. The ability and the desire, the capacity to take something that used to work a certain way during a certain season and do something new, something different with that same material with that same pattern with those same skills.

One of the things I've admired about Christa Wells, in her career is her ability and her capacity to not just reinvent as a writer, a songwriter, a podcaster as a guide, but to do so in a way that paves the way and sets an example for other artists to do the same. I really enjoyed my conversation with her sitting down in Nashville. I think you will too.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

LGBTQ folks and Church Practice

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 10 Mar 2022 12:00:00 +0000

In the introduction to last week’s episode, I mentioned that in the years I spent as a pastor in an evangelical setting, the conversation about the place of LGBTQ folks in a local church was a regular and often difficult one.

That the Biblical image I kept coming back to was of Moses and his people stuck between the uncrossable waters in front of them and the violent forces behind them.

The tensions felt are often theological and institutional. But the cost, the main cost, was and is personal. Yes, I saw pastors lose their jobs and I saw a flood of people leave congregations they loved or stay in congregations in which they felt deep sadness and stress.

I lost friends, too.

And because that cost was and is so personal, my thoughts and feelings about what’s at hand in this conversation started to evolve and change and, in some way, clarify.

Are there institutional and theological steps to be taken and moves to be made? Yes?

But I’ve never felt it was an agreement that was what actually held healthy communities and relationships together. I recognized that disagreeing well was actually key. More than that, it is always the value of the

The hope has never been communities bound together ONLY by common conclusions. Instead, it has been communities bound together by relationships and committed conversation, particularly about things that matter and more so when those things that matter on DEEPLY personal levels.

This takes me back to that Biblical imagery. Moses and his people facing uncrossable waters with violence at their back and something utterly miraculous has to happen for there to be a pathway forward.

There is nothing so miraculous as the change of a human heart.

So I started paying attention to the places where folks who loved one another were in conversation and compromise and commitment together and my hopes have risen since then.

The way I’ve come to think; If waters aren’t parted between people who love and like each other, I wonder if much happening on the theological and institutional level matters anyway. In fact, I wonder, at times, if the entire ballgame when it comes to wholesale institutional change just plain pivots on our willingness to love and make room for one another.

I wonder if what has been exposed, more so than anything else in the years we’ve been invested in this “conversation” is a shortage of hospitality and a lack of willingness to love like Jesus.

Jesus, whose love was marked and defined by sacrifice; Who broke standards of culture and religious expectations, not for the thrill of being a rule breaker or to scorn the institution, but because people are always more than (and worth more than) the conclusions we have about them or the rules we make for them.

I don’t know what the pathway forward actually looks like when it comes to local churches and LGBTQ members of the family of Christ. I assume that, logistically, it’s tied up into the larger questions about what “church” looks like in practice over the next few decades.

This means that, regardless of strategy and theology, the true hope for Chruch practice in this context or any is the miraculous capacity of human beings to love one another well, in conflict and disagreement, in sickness and in health.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Staci Frenes

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:00:00 +0000

During my time as a pastor in the Evangelical Covenant Church, I was in an ongoing conversation about the relationship between LGBTQ folks and local churches. And over the years, regardless of all the different kinds of settings in which that conversation was happening, it kept bringing me back to this very particular biblical imagery.

Moses and his people were on the edge of a body of water that they could not safely cross with the armies of Egypt, bearing down on them from behind an impossibility. Any change necessary for a peaceful, free future was just off the table, something very new, something not just unprecedented, but unexpected and very unlikely would need to happen. It has pretty much always felt that same way to me in the institutional conversation about sexuality and gender and identity, and communal religious practice, that any change necessary in order for a peaceful, connected communal future, to be possible just seemed off the table. For that reason, then for several years, I've turned my attention to places in which I saw actual newness, and that was almost always in relationship. It was almost always happening on a level that the institutional conversation was too busy or too noisy, to notice. But as quiet as some of those spaces and moments might have been, they continue to grant me deep and sincere hope for a future. I can't see it.

Staci Frenes story is one of those spaces and places and it was a joy to reconnect with her in conversation.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Episode 100

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 24 Feb 2022 12:00:00 +0000

Hello, and welcome to episode 100 of the @Sea podcast.

We launched this thing on April 30th, 2016. And 100 episodes later, here we are. I want to pause right here at Episode 100; you do a couple of things, two things very specifically. The first one is simply to say thank you, thank you for listening for paying attention, I do not take for granted at all, not for a moment, that you offer your attention your time to this podcast, anything that I do, but specifically today, this podcast, thank you for paying attention. If you are a patron, doubly Thank you, because not only your attention but your actual contributions make it possible for me to do this, to take care of equipment costs, and also to free up the time it takes me to invest in these conversations, to do the research, I am enriched by this work. And your support allows me to continue to enter into it. So thank you very, very, very much. Thank you also, and very specifically to Dan Portnoy, who is the producer of this episode, and really the vast majority of episodes of the @Sea podcast, the last 100 episodes, your skillset your attention, your availability, there's just stuff along with this podcast, there's just stuff that's true about my life, and is that exists in my life that simply would not were you not the person you are with the skill set you have and the attention you pay. So thank you. Thank you for making all this possible. If you're a listener, if you're Dan, if you are a patron. That's first. The first is Thanks. And thanks because this like I said, this is an enriching work. I love this work. I love this work because I'm growing as I do it, which leads me to the second thing that I want to do. I grew up watching David Letterman, which means that what I'm going to offer you as a David Letterman type thing, I'm going to offer you a top 10. The top 10 things I have learned as the host of the @Sea podcast after 100 episodes.

Number 10. I don't have to know everything.

But seems like kind of a win. I say it out loud. But the reality is, is life is just better recognizing my limitations, that I don't have to make a goal of assembling a bunch of knowledge and becoming a know at all. It's actually a really good posture to be in to recognize that I'm limited in my knowledge. I'm actually sometimes limited in my ability to know.

That makes life more interesting and makes people more interesting. I don't have to know everything doesn't pretend.

Number nine, I don't have to pretend like I know everything. My mom used to say, no one likes it. know it all. Maybe your mom said the same thing. 100 episodes into this podcast. I really believe it.

Folks really enjoy being asked questions. I enjoy being asked questions. I don't have to pretend like I know everything. In fact, there's just not a lot of respect to be gained. By pretending like I've got knowledge, there is a lot to be gained by knowing that I don't know everything and acting like someone who is looking for what's next in someone's life was looking for truth, beauty, goodness, as opposed to thinking that they've got it.

Which leads me to number eight. Curiosity is a sign of respect.

To say to someone tell me about that. To say to someone, I don't think I quite understand that. Can you break that down? For me? There is this maybe a fear of sorts that that like folks would be offended, to be asked questions about who they are. But the more I've done it, the more I've asked like really poignant questions of really sensitive matters and people's lives the more I recognize how respected and honored people feel, when I ask questions, as opposed to make assumptions. Curiosity is a sign of respect.

Number seven, mystery is an invitation.

It is often used the word mystery maybe misused it is sometimes misused the word mystery as a way to excuse the work it takes to get to know someone to a way to excuse the work it takes or the responsibility of coming to know of asking good questions and waiting for answers or even waiting through answers that we don't understand. "Oh it's just mysterious." No, real mystery true mystery is an invitation into relationship is an invitation into a deeper kind of knowledge. It's the it begins with that sense of like I don't really get this that leads to really good questions. Mystery is not a dead end when it comes to culture or religion or anything. It is an invitation "Hey, there's more here, there's more than you can see, there's more than you can know, maybe there's more than it's possible for you to know maybe there's actually more than this possible the edges of human knowledge." mystery is an invitation and not a dead end.

Number six, knowledge isn't power. Knowledge is a facet of relationship. This notion that this, you know, it's a saying, I've heard it I've seen on posters, no, just power. No, you know that that's true. If the goal in my life is to control, if the goal of my life is to control the world around me, then knowledge can be power. But if the goal in my life is relationship, then knowledge is simply a facet of that relationship. And it ends up being a commitment to a relationship, like a particular commitment to a relationship that I get to know you, I get to see you and experience you now as you are. And knowledge is power means that you have to stay there. Otherwise, we have a problem. Once I've come to know you, that's who you are. And if you change, then we've got a problem.

What if instead, knowledge is a way for it's a facet of like, I get to see you now. And then as you change, I'm committed to relearning you over the course of time. That's true into relationally as true interpersonally. It's also true societally, that suit institutionally, culturally, things are as they are now. And I can come to a certain understanding and a grasp, here's that control piece, a grasp of the way things are now. But real knowledge then is like this is going to change. And when it changes, when you change, I'm going to ask the next set of questions in order to re-enter into this relationship as it exists. Tomorrow, knowledge, isn't power, knowledge is a facet of relationship.

Number five.

I'm hesitant to even say this out loud, I shouldn't because I mean, this.

Not everything has to be important to me.

To say, there are things that have been important to my guests over the over 100 episodes that like; they're just not as important to me. And some of that has to do with place in life, some of that has to do with the position of power that I can't do much about some of the things that some of my guests care deeply about and have committed their lives to.

So it can't be important to me in the same way. There are things that are important to me that aren't important to other folks who don't have the kind of access or don't have the same kind of doorways. It's important for me to recognize like, these are the things that I get to know that these are the things I get to do something about these are things that are that are actually important to me so that I can play my part and respect you for playing your part that doesn't have to be important to me in the same way that it is you I can just think that you're a hero in your specific lane and let you drive in it and do it really well. And then I can stay in my lane and do my part well, and trust the whole process, the fabric of the world societally becomes far more interesting. And I get to be more responsible for my part of it. If I recognize that not everything has to be important to me, I just want to be really responsible to the stuff that is.

Number four, listening is the key.

The key, not just a key listening is the key to good relationship, and great art. To have a good idea and even to have a skill set is wonderful. It's necessary if this podcast was a good idea, and I have a certain skill set that allows me to do this, and I think do this decently well. But it's my capacity to and my growing capacity to pay attention and to listen, that actually makes this work. That's true on a bunch of different levels. It's also true in the rest of my art that I have, I can have a great idea. But if I'm not paying attention to the world around me, I don't know where that idea goes. And I just kind of place things out of context or in the wrong time or among the wrong tribe of people. Listening is the key to good relationship the key to good relationship, and it is also the key to great art.

Number three, listening is actually hard.

Because what it requires me to do is it requires me to put my agendas to the side. It requires me to relegate my ideas to maybe even better ideas. Listening requires me to slow down and to cease my desire for control to cease my desire for a certain kind of knowledge. Listening is hard because it requires me to find my place in the stay in it and not try to be the center of every conversation, to not be the center of every culture. Again, as a, you know, as a straight, white, male listening has become maybe the most essential practice of my life has come to recognize, like my necessary place, and my better place in my neighborhood, my world online.

And it's been hard, because it is more so than anything else, listening, is a relinquishing of power, or the desire for power.

Listening is hard.

Number two, not all stories are good stories.

The emphasis on story you know, the folks over at Pixar like to say the story is king and I absolutely believe that story is King story is the framework. Story is a framework for really all kinds of knowledge, relational, institutional, otherwise, story really is king. But not every story is a good story. There are actually bad stories in the world and discerning that. Having that discernment, recognizing when I'm paying attention to a bad story, or recognizing when I'm contributing to a bad story begins with the recognition in the confession, that not every story is a good story. There are some stories that are simply bad ones, and should be replaced. Not necessarily silenced, but should be seized, yes, remembered so that we would know I hate that's a bad story. We don't want to do that again. But some stories should come to an end. Not all stories are good.

And lastly, the number one thing that I've learned and relearned over the course of 100 episodes:

I like people.

The Enneagram With Jim Gum

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 27 Jan 2022 12:00:00 +0000

Oh, the enneagram.

It is, like many tools, so often misused or misapplied.

It feels to me that a lot of folks are stuck between some form of infatuation with the tools or their type and some form of annoying disdain with the whole thing.

I’m not a fan of the enneagram. Not the way people are fans of the Boston Red Sox or Manchester United. I like what I see happen in the lives of people who

Jim Gum is a certified teacher of the Narrative Enneagram. There are many approaches to the study and application of the tool and, having worked with Jim in a few settings, I really appreciate his take.

Specifically, Jim introduced me to the idea that knowing myself by way of the enneagram is ultimately about knowing my type; it’s about transcending my type and knowing myself as a whole.

We cover a lot of ground in this conversation. I think you’ll dig it.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Staying Power

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 13 Jan 2022 12:00:00 +0000

Sometimes what looks like compromise is not compromise at all. Sometimes it’s the hard choice to be a constant and a light in a shady and unstable environment.

And sometimes it means being the one willing to be humbled and be wrong and change and grow in a stuck and calcified culture.

I remember, after a few years working within a religious institution and experiencing the disillusionment that often associated the end of an institutional season, I started to believe that the most courageous and just thing to do when corruption or institutional failure reared its ugly head, was to leave; to walk away from relationships and organizations and systems I felt were broken or wrong.

And sometimes that’s true; sometimes saying “I can’t be here if things are going to be this way,” is the best and right and most fruitful move.

But sometimes it’s not.

I was deeply moved by artist Propaganda’s recent reflection about sitting at the table with institutional power and remaining in relationship to an organization rife with leadership issues and flaws and even injustices of its own.

His reflection is called “I Did A Difficult Thing Yesterday” and you can read it on his website right now. There’s a lot to chew on in the piece but the thing that stood out to me was the complexity of his perspective given the complexity of the situation (that rather than simple emotions and an oversimplifying of the circumstances).

The institutionalization of vision and mission is, I would suggest, inevitable. In order to find ways to sustain our patterns of care and justice, we create culture and set guidelines, organize efforts, and, over time, those all get wrapped up and we name it. Then things can get … tricky. In fact, they almost always do and when that happens, just as when a movement starts, people have different roles. Some will need to leave so that their critique and perspective are heard from the outside of the culture or institution. And some will need to stay because (in part) their most powerful position is still within the org and (in part) that’s where their heart is. And staying can mean feeling an impossible amount of pain and pressure.

I remember Andrew Marin writing, in his 2009 book “Love is an Orientation,” that being a bridge means being walked on from both sides. How much more problematic it is to be a connection point between many opinions, agendas, and needs that come with institutional life.

Yes, sometimes the right thing to do, is to resign one’s position and move on, voicing a loving and righteous response on the way out.

And sometimes it’s being the person who stays in the busted up space, feeling the tension of the thousand directional pressures and unanswerable questions while hoping and working for what can seem like the impossible change to come; the person being asked to answer would be or wanna be radicals who want to burn down every impure thing and slow-movers who don’t know the difference between criticism and complaining.

Many of my guests have been women and men who have been in and integral to their chosen cultures for years and even decades. For many of them, the hardest part of their vocational life has been the choice and effort to simply stay through “thick and thin” as it were. It doesn’t come with the electricity of the radical’s role or the badge of honor often awarded to the stalwart defender of a culture’s reputation. Hopefully, it comes with a quieter assurance that they’re not just doing the right thing in the right place at the right time but they are the right person for that place.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Mike Donehey

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:25:00 +0000

Just as there are artists who work at the edges of a culture, pushing boundaries and breaking rules that need breaking, there are also artists doing essential work closer to the heart or center of a their chosen culture.

For two decades, Mike Donehey has taken the sacred trust of folks at the heart of his culture and led, lovingly and faithfully.
Mike and I click well, so my conversation with him started even before the recording did. You’ll pick it up in the middle of us talking about managing a diverse set of projects.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Mary's Yes

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 23 Dec 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Because I came into the practice of faith through a distinctly protestant doorway, I didn’t know, early on, what to make of the Catholic of veneration or even emphasis on Mary, the mother of Jesus. The way I’d heard the story told, Mary was almost a bystander to her own pregnancy; a tertiary figure watching the Spirit of God and a few angels conspire to bring Good News to the planet.

Of course, like so many others, the older I’ve gotten and the more I’ve actually wrestled with God as a part of my faith experience, the more I’ve needed models and examples for what faith and faith practice look and feel like in raw human form.

Mary’s “Yes” is a model

and a guide to me.
What would have happened
if, when I was presented with my own
religious breakthrough moment,

I said something more like Mary said.

Because she didn’t leap

directly into the story

with enthusiasm and a smile.

She paused, like Mary Magdalene

at the threshold of Jesus’ tomb years later.
What if I were to have said,
“I don’t want this”
or “I don’t think I’m capable.”

And maybe that’s how faith works?

Or maybe that’s faith, too?
to pause and worry

and question and even doubt.
Maybe it’s like Jesus asking people
to extend their hands
or take up their mats
or wash off their faces
in a certain body of water.
Maybe the acceptance of the gift
actualizes the gift moment.
Maybe receiving the gift

in whatever posture it is received
(because very few of those people

“believed” in God the way

the religiously minded mean today)
means the gift becomes fully a gift.

Maybe I’m wrong.
I don't know.
What I do know
is that Mary said “Yes,”
that it cost her to do so
and that I’m thankful she did.

I’m also thankful she said “yes”
after asking “How will that work?”
I’m thankful faith can look like saying
“That makes no sense to me
but I’m willing to try.”

Because that’s what faith looks like for me

most of the time;
it looks like ”Ummm… sure… yes…?”
and then sometimes long seasons

of waiting to see
what I said “yes” to

come to life.

In Mary’s case,

it was 30 years

before the thing, she said “yes” to
came to fruition in any way like
the way it was promised.

I said “yes”

to this whole faith journey thing

about 30 years ago years now

and I’m still saying

“How does this work?”
I’m still saying
“that makes no sense to me”

and I’m still saying “I’m willing to try…

May it be with me as you say.”

I am still thankful,

perhaps now more than ever,

that, every Advent / Christmas season,

I get to pause briefly and remember

that the Story hinges at one point

on the faith and courage of a young woman

whose “Yes” sounds far less like

the triumphant, big-chested declarations

of heroes and mythical figures,

and far more like mine.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Aundi Kolber

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 16 Dec 2021 12:00:00 +0000

In recent years, I have noticed a kind of uptick in conversations and the pace of conversations and the intensity of conversations about mental health come the holidays. Some of that has to do with maybe the shorter days, some of that has to do with being around people who might be triggering, or just some difficult family dynamics, the pressure of spending a whole lot of money or not spending money.

It's a kind of intense time and so it seemed an appropriate time to release this conversation with Andi colder. Andi is a licensed therapist, she is also an author, and she works at that wonderful dynamic intersection of mental health, spiritual practice, religion, and science. The place where we all live. I had a delightful conversation with her turns out we have a little bit of personal history. I've benefited from her work, and I've mostly benefited in recent years from paying attention to the way she talks about engages in, and guides other people through conversations about that really turbulent intersection. I think you'll enjoy this conversation.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Advent, Waiting, & the Long Arc of Justice

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Near the heart of the Christmas / Advent Story is the expectation that God is going to offer a gift. The head-fake in this Bible story is that, when those waiting come upon and/or are given that gift, it’s just a baby. And I know folks have surrounded Jesus’ birth with all kinds of magic imagery, sparkles, and theme music since then. But for people who had been waiting for some kind of momentous, earth-shattering socio-cultural and political sign of change, that had to be at least somewhat confusing and disappointing. If this was the gift, it meant having to wait. again.

In fact, according to the timeline in those same scriptures, the next time there is anything of significance to be made of the life of Jesus, it’s 30 years later.

And then, after 3 years of work with a small community, Jesus is arrested and those following him have to wait. again.

And then he is murdered by the State (at the behest of religious power) and those following him have to wait. again.

Here’s the thing; I don’t think that process ever ends. I don’t think the waiting ever ends. And I’ve begun to think that’s the case because the primary fruit of waiting is my formation and becoming; not getting what I’m wanting.

In fact, I think that waiting, as a practice in and of itself, changes me so that I want differently (and better). Sometimes, even if the thing I’ve waited for is exactly what I expected it to be, by the time I come upon it or possess it, I’ve changed.

Over time, my hopes and desires have changed. I try not to expect particular results or gifts or moments. Instead, I hope that my will is refined and changed. That, through my waiting, I can want differently and want more and want better.

I want differently.

I want more.

I want better.

And I think that might be the point.

The spiritual process/journey isn’t about grasping God or attaining personal greatness or holiness the way I’d grasp/attain an item at a Walmart; it’s about becoming. The tension and disappointment and patience necessary for waiting shapes me into someone who wants differently wants more and wants better; so that, in the pursuit of better things, I grow. again.

That process is often measured by social, creative, or political works. Which can be very helpful but also very discouraging or even disorienting. The American Civil Rights movement, for the most part, took place in the 1960s. This means folks have been waiting for six full decades to see some of the truths spoken and celebrated then come to fruition - and many have yet to do so.

Part of what that waiting does is, yes, help form those waiting into the kinds of people who can build and maintain a more just society. It also exposes that many among us are simply not ready. And that realization can be very sad.

During one of the speeches that defined that civil rights era, Dr. Promised that “We shall overcome because the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.”
Many years later, writer and journalist Summer Brennan tweeted “The moral arc of the universe will only bend (toward justice) if enough people grab hold of it and pull as hard as they can.“

I think both things are true. This means, that along with continuing to do the kind of work Dominique Dubois Gillard is doing, we also keep waiting.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Dominique Dubois Gillard

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 2 Dec 2021 12:00:00 +0000

During the first season of the podcast, I got to talk with Dominique Dubois Gillard about his book “Rethinking Incarceration.” One of the things we talked about was the difficulty and opportunity to steer the ship, even slightly, in institutional spaces already (and often blindly) dominated by whiteness and privilege.

His most recent book dives directly into that very conversation. Subversive Witness coaches and encourages readers towards a leveraging of one’s privilege rather than simply being another critique of the problems that come with having it.

I loved the book and, as always, loved talking with Dominique.

Check it out

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Stay in Your Lane / Know Your Power

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 19 Nov 2021 22:00:00 +0000

This will take on a bit of a confessional tone.

A few years ago, Dr. Christena Cleveland talked on my podcast about the need for black leaders to steer away from trying to influence white spaces so often. The effort, she clarified, to change white minds about whiteness, should be executed by white hands. Not because of a hatred or distain among black leaders for the people in white-centered cultures, but as a matter of workload, exhaustion and, in a sense, effectiveness.

The translation and code switching needed in order to establish not just trust but a baseline of knowledge just wasn’t worth it for a lot of black leaders, who could be spending their time organizing and inspiring in black spaces where agreements about life experience are already made. For example, more often than not, a room of non-white persons doesn’t need convincing that the black experience of the legal system is profoundly different than it is for white persons.

As she is so keen at doing, Dr. Cleveland delivered that truth with a fair mix between “stay in your lane” and “know your power.”

And that’s a very important distinction for me to make. Absolutely, I have needed to learn how to stay in my lane. I have a tendency to overreach because I want to do so much. That can lead to not just taking on more than I can handle well but even taking on roles FAR better filled by other people with different training, history and socio-cultural positioning. Meanwhile, i’m functionally stealing energy from efforts I can be making in roles more my cup of tea; places I can have a more lasting and deeper impact.
I don’t think I can be a leader among people of color in religious spaces.

But I can witness their courage and work and can translate those efforts and victories for folks more like me.

I don’t think will be a leader among those building faith communities in the next season of Western religious life.

But I can coach and champion and motivate and help those who are.

That old author’s dilemma of knowing your audience translates into a lot of life, including areas of leadership. And just as it can be true of authors, so it is for leaders, that learning where and with whom your work really lands can be as surprising as it is freeing.

For both my recent guests, Alan Smyth and David Zach, their entrance into the fight against human slavery has meant learning which parts of that enormous, messy and interconnected world they are most effective in. For both, they’ve recognized that moving the hearts and minds of folks more like themselves is an area of power for them. Alan, a long-time leader of men, wrote a book on the connection between manhood and the vulnerability of children. A long time musician, David Zach career behind the mic of a band making music for the religiously inclined has meant taking stories from some very dark corners of the world into places that would never otherwise hear them.

There are victories I thought I’d have at this point in my life and goals I thought I’d have achieved that I simply had to let go of because they don’t fall within the wise and loving parameters of my limited life. Meanwhile, within those limits, there are depths of connection and difference I didn’t know were available to me until I traded in breadth of influence for that depth.

It’s a trade I’m happy to have made.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

David Zach

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 12:00:00 +0000

“If you really wanted to help, you’d up and move to Africa.”

It was a few minutes after I’d just spoken at a college chapel and a particularly fired-up student was trying to convince his classmates to resist child sponsorship in favor of a more radical and, in his mind, more holistic response to the problem of extreme poverty.

His suggestion that a serious person would uproot their entire lives in response to the information they’d just been handed is as dramatic as it is… problematic. See, aside from the white-savior complex that response borrows from, it also ignores an often overlooked opportunity the privileged have, because of our privilege; access to the hearts and minds of other, privileged people.

Because, somewhere in the mix, that student was right that there is a link between the way people like me live and the tragic circumstances in which far too many other people live; that I should change the way I live if I’m serious about changing things for folks in extreme poverty.

But/and… one of the opportunities I am afforded because of my position is to change and grow in a way that inspires and informs and even leads other people in my same position.

And that’s not sexy work to do.
In fact, it can look suspiciously like compromise and slowness.
(sometimes it is)
This is why we like to tell the stories of the families who sold everything and left for Fallujah without a plan.

I thank God for those stories.

They’re just not mine.

That’s not David Zach’s story, either.

David, like I did, ran headlong into stories about human trafficking along the way he was already traveling. And the decisions he’d made about how he could respond, as a person of privilege, to leverage that privilege and power are truly powerful.

I was thrilled to talk with him about his history and his work.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Overwhelmed And I Should Be

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 4 Nov 2021 11:00:00 +0000

“Sometimes, God gives us glimpses into the enormity of the work at hand, not to increase our capacity to do a larger work or more work but so that the work we can do becomes more vital and less optional. We are compelled to do the work we can do because we cannot do all we want.”

I wrote that on the way home from a 10 day trip to India with Compassion international. It was, to be entirely honest, a life-altering trip for several reasons, including a very humbling breakdown I had on day 9 of that trip.

Guided by our hosts, a small group of us got to visit several church communities who were helping to feed, educate and provide medical care for kids who, without the open door of the Commission program, would most likely live without those necessities.

Of course, I’d been on trips like that before. I’d seen extreme poverty in Central America, South America, Kenya, Uganda… and yes, it was always heartbreaking.

But (and I know I sound distant, privileged, and desensitized) I was never entirely overwhelmed. I pretty much always felt like I had a grasp on things, philosophically, anthropologically, politically, and even theologically.

But that 9th day in India… I fell to pieces.

We’d gathered toward the end of the evening with Compassion staff and partners from all over the world. Several groups were visiting Kolkata at the same time. I remember starting to feel something like dizzy listening to German staff talk about the former prostitute who walked into the middle of the street in one of Kolkata’s red-light districts, only to be surrounded and mobbed by dozens of current prostitutes who consider her a mother-figure and care-giver.

In the van on the way to that gathering, I remarked to my friend Bob that, on that drive, like all our others, every mile was covered by people. It was wearing on me that, for over a week, there were crowds of human lives extending as far as I could see and beyond… there was no break. No open space.. just sea after sea of humanity… So. Many. People.

And earlier that day, we’d visited the convent where sick and destitute people received care from Catholic sisters; sisters who walked the block around their building, sometimes daily, to see if anyone had left children there to be picked up (or… in other cases, trampled).

And before that, across town, we were invited to witness a religious ceremony at the temple to the god Kali. Around the temple were hundreds of women and children (and a few men), holding animals in their arms or on leashes, waiting in line to sacrifice that animal to Kali. There were animal screams inside the walls and the iron smell of blood got thicker the deeper into the temple we walked.

The sacrifice, we were told, was to appease Kali so that Kali would not wreak havoc on peoples’ lives. Some of those sacrifices, we were also told, were of animals the family would much more greatly benefit from if kept alive; for milk and meat or farmland grazing.

“Religion,” I thought to myself “can be so utterly detestable.”

And got to thinking about the thousands or even millions of tiny gods, including diminished and manipulated forms of Jesus, that folks like myself made sacrifices to regularly; sacrifices of time and money and friendship and mental health and dreams and on and on… and that’s when the unraveling began…

It’s. All. So. Much.

There. Is. So. Much. Wrong.

So that, by the time I stepped off our shuttle at the end of that 9th night and walked past the armed guard who held the line between the slum next door to our hotel and the crisp, clean hotel itself … I was dizzy and nauseous and couldn’t tell as clearly where the line was between real and imaginary, between what I knew of the world and what I projected onto it or between what I believed about goodness itself and what I simply hoped was true so I could feel better about the way I lived.

There’s a fair bit of the rest of that night I don’t recall. I know there were tears and some pacing and some attempts at coherent prayer. Eventually, I found myself in the bathroom mirror, working away to remove my beard. I had flashed back to a moment several months before when a friend’s Rabi had pulled me aside at a party to tell me I needed to cut off my facial hair; that a beard was a sign of wisdom and I was far too young to have earned it.

My buddy was embarrassed for me and apologized.

But something about the moment stuck with me, apparently. Because here I was scraping away at my face feeling very much like I didn’t deserve to wear a beard. I’d been confronted by realities in my world I could make no sense of and that shook me pretty bad. I needed a way to show my contrition; a way to make clear I knew I had been wrong about how smart or understanding or how powerful I was.

But even that thought, as right it might be, felt like it missed. If the cumulative effect of this moment was only that I felt bad,… that didn’t seem right.

So, as I washed off my face, I felt my mind settle a bit and, in what little bit of peace and clarity I was gaining, turned my attention back toward the reasons I was in the country, to begin with. Compassion International had invited me to India because I was one of their speakers; I was and an advocate for children growing up in extreme poverty. And no, right there and then, the job I was doing on the scale I was able to do it flat out didn’t seem like it was big enough …

And if my personal goal was to eradicate poverty entirely that week (or maybe even in my lifetime), then .. no.. nothing I do is enough. Not on that level.

But maybe the point of this didn’t have to be that I felt bad about how little I had to offer. Maybe what I could do instead of simply give in to my circumstances and say “it is what it is” and “I am what I am,” is learn to soberly take my life more seriously in light of how very serious things are in the world I am choosing to love.

Because things are VERY serious. And that should be overwhelming. But if I am to think of myself as more than a tool in the Divine tool belt whose value is determined by its usefulness and effectiveness, then just experiencing guilt at that moment was too small a thing. To be humbled? Yes? To be demoralized? No.

See, this is the thing I find in my friends and sisters and brothers who are neck deep working in areas like hunger or extreme poverty or even human trafficking and slavery…

The “wins” and victories are few and sometimes small and infrequent. The depth of the darkness is… pervasive and seemingly relentless. It can be overwhelming. And it should be.

But what if that means I can offer my time and talents and efforts and energies, NOT because I’m effective and powerful, but because the people I’m offering myself to are worth it.
Maybe that makes it a work of love

And maybe that’s the key, long term; maybe that’s why awareness of the 40 million people living in slavery waxes and wanes and oscillates as wildly as it does; our effectiveness can be called into question, sidelining our efforts and sometimes crushing them, altogether. But if we are committed to loving people, the effectiveness of our plans has a much broader context and, when things seem dark and heavy, the love we are committed to says “do what you can with all your heart. You aren’t here to win. You’re here to love.”

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Alan Smyth

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 28 Oct 2021 15:45:00 +0000

It was somewhere in the early 2000s when I got a package in the mail from a friend, who had just taken a job with an organization that purported to rescue people from slavery. And I've got to admit, and especially at the time, it was something of an embarrassing admission that I had no idea that that was a need. It blew my mind.

There are people in slavery, there are still people in slavery. And it still does actually kind of blew my mind, but in a different way. Since that time, I've had the opportunity, the privilege to be a partner with a few different organizations that do exactly that work. They rescue people living in slavery, they imprison and prosecute the men, predominantly men who run black market, slave organizations.

And two things continue to pop up for me.

The first being what I just mentioned, that it's awful, it's tragic, it's actually mind-numbing, that human beings would sell and buy other human beings, specifically that human beings would sell, or buy children.

Secondly, I'm saddened at not just the cultural pattern, but even the pattern in my own life, by which I recognize or in which I recognize that I don't maintain a regular concern, I lose focus about or towards this particular dark corner of the world. There are seasons when I do or we do focus on human trafficking on human slavery, the fact that we're still buying and selling human lives, and then there are seasons, that it's just not urgent. It doesn't pop up. It isn't in my regular everyday conscience.

And so I champion, the lives the voices, the energies of the people, who do fight this battle, who do dig in they after day after day. And really specifically over the next couple episodes, I want to highlight to folks who come from backgrounds really similar to mine, and have not just again, but have maintained that pace,

beginning with Alan Smith, who's a dear friend of mine that I got to speak to a few weeks ago about this organization that he has started working with, that allows him to place a year's worth of work among adolescents in a different sphere of life into this really dark corner and bring a bit of light. I enjoyed the conversation. I think you will too check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

God, Context, and Bad Religion

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 11:00:00 +0000

I ran into a friend recently whom I haven’t seen in a while. And at first, I didn’t recognize him. Some of that had to do with the time between meetings. But more of it had to do with context. The last time I saw him was in California in the Sierra Nevada foothills.

This recent meeting was in a town called Goshen, Virginia. He and I were walking into buildings adjacent to one another and caught each other's eye. Then we did “that thing;” just staring at one another quizzically and awkwardly until he (his name is Mike) said “McRoberts!?”

There were hugs and high fives and that “guy” hug with the clasped palms thing in the middle.

I’m guessing you’ve had a similar moment: seeing someone or something you know well enough but in a context that threw off your expectations.

Them? Here? No.. that can’t be. They belong somewhere else,… right?

Part of what has been exposed in my religious training is that this happens to me, in relationship to God, somewhat regularly. An “encounter” or a moment of clarity is cast into substantial doubt because, .. well. God doesn’t go “here;” God goes to certain places at certain times (and sometimes in certain ways).

This isn’t to say that those places and spaces and times and ways are, in and of themselves, problematic; more so, they become problematic when I try to stuff the entirely of my expectant longing for God into them. They can’t hold that. They break.

What if the spaces and places we call “sacred” were less like consumer packaging and more like training grounds; always pointing beyond themselves and humbly aware of their transience. May it be so that I learn to see The Divine there (goodness, truth, beauty) so that I can recognize Divine love and movement everywhere else… not so that I would know where to go should I desire to find it.

So,

The 10 am -11 am hour on a Sunday

The specific words of specific prayers

The specific chord progressions

The specific genre of music or art

are all fine

But/And/Also…

They are small.

So small.

Alexander Schmemann, in his book “For The Life of the world” criticized what he called “the religion of this world,” suggesting that too much of it has called this one, small area of life “sacred” and, in doing so the way we’ve done it, rendered the MAJORITY of the rest of life and the experience of life “plain” or ‘other” or even “bad.”

That’s terrible religion.

And if those of us at the helm of contemporary religious machinery are truly honest with ourselves, we have to admit that this is the case, at least in part (if not in large part) because we’ve made it this way. If I am a gatekeeper to your spiritual/religious experience or if something I’ve created is THE place and way you see The Divine, then you need me and you need what I make and I get to keep my job and my power.

This takes me all the way back to the poetic, prophetic challenge issued by the writers of Genesis, who, in the third chapter, expose the core, human temptation to “be like God, knowing good and evil.” It is a temptation, in part, to set the parameters of reality and decide where things should go, including The Divine.

But God is who, what, and how God is, wherever God is.

Just like my friend Mike is Mike, wherever he is.

And getting to know him how and where and when I did should mean that, when I discover him on the other side of the country, I recognize him.. as Mike.

May it be so for you and I in relationship to each other and may it be so for you and I in relationship to the Divine and may it be so for us who continue to forge pathways for people to encounter God - that we would not be gatekeepers. We would set the stage for folks to come into an encounter with the Divine by which/in which they would learn to see God however God shows up, wherever God shows up.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Tara Owens

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 14 Oct 2021 11:00:00 +0000

In the book Prayer: 40 Days of Practice, I take a swing at unpacking the word “spiritual;” not an effort to redefine the word for all users, but an effort to expand its application to meet my own experience and expectation.

I do so by way of a kind of allegory; one in which a young man visits a religious guide of some kind, I think I call him a priest in the actual chapter, and shares that something feels wrong in his connection with The Divine. He describes it as a kind of pain in his chest; one he experiences most keenly at night when he lays down to reflect on his day.

After describing the discomfort in some detail, the young man expects a particular kind of “spiritual” response from his priest friend. But that priest friend reaches into his bag to retrieve an antacid, saying “Son, you have heartburn.”

My hope is that the story expands a readers’ take on what it means to think of themselves spiritually. That, instead of “spiritual” matters being those that are disembodied and separate from financial, social, physical, mental, or emotional ones, thinking spiritually is about seeing all those aspects of one’s existence as integrated, sacred, and attended to by The One Who Holds All Things Together.

And while the story presents a bit more prescriptive role from the priest, that expanded expectation regarding what is “spiritual” is part of the work of spiritual direction.

And spiritual direction, as a practice and a profession, deserves a whole long look before we go simply and easily defining it. If living spiritually has to do with considering every square inch of my life worth the attention of God, then learning to practice that kind of life takes a very nuanced, very detailed, and (dare I say) very personal help.

That has been the role of spiritual direction for me and one I have longed to play in the lives of others.

I am currently apprenticed to Tara Owens who is a spiritual director and the founder of Man Cara Ministries. Her wisdom and experience have been on the revolutionary side of enriching for me and because I know my attempts at passing along the things (and the ways) I’ve come to see by way of her guidance, I visited her in Colorado Springs so that I could pass along our conversation.

I think you’ll dig it.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

The Problem of Care

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 7 Oct 2021 11:00:00 +0000

A few weeks ago, I was in a contraption with a few folks my age and older who were voicing concerns about all the “information” kids get online. During that conversation, statistics were thrown around about how much data we’re subject to. Apparently, every person creates something like 1.7 MB of data every second, which amounted to 2.5 quintillion data bytes per day.

That

Lot

At some point, someone said something about kids knowing too much. I don’t remember the exact phrase but it was something along the lines of “it’s just too much information. They’re overwhelmed.”

That.. gave me pause.

Something about it rang true, but not entirely.

You see, I wonder if the hang-up here isn’t that there’s too much to know; I wonder if it’s that I feel responsible for caring about all of it... or even too much of it.

And saying I don’t care about everything can be a slightly troublesome thing to say. Because “everything” is a very long list and it includes things you might think are REALLY vital; maybe even essential. So, as I confess my limitation of care, I just might be telling you that I don’t care about the things you care about the way you care about them or to the same depth… and now… now we might have a problem.

And that… that’s overwhelming; to feel like I have to overextend my care or even pretend to overextend my care in order to remain true to my tribe. What if I care about the hungry teens in Pleasant Hill / Martinez, CA who are sleeping in cars around the corner from their local HS instead of at home so they know they can get to school on time … but my heart isn’t drawn to the clean water crisis in Sub-Saharan Africa?

What if I spend the lion's share of my charitable, care time and energy in the area of child exploitation and human trafficking and, because I do, I don’t know enough about trans persons or biology or the science in the mix?

What if I don’t care about what you care about?

And what if it scares me to tell you that?

What if it’s not the amount of information available to us. What if it’s the degree of responsibility we feel we have to have for that information; I don’t have the time or energy or the resources to effectively and consistently care for more than a few things.

That’s just true… and I know it’s true. I also know it’s true that there are absences on (or from) my care list that have been disappointing to more than a few people. And that’s been a point of stress at times;

Moving the question from “what do I care about?”

To “what should I care about?”

Author and Missiologist Michael Frost gets a lot of questions that basically boil down to the question of care. Because he’s in the field of teaching religious-minded about responsible “mission,” he regularly converses with folks who are searching the world around them for urgent needs to fill so that they can participate in the Grand Work of Redemption and Restoration. Rather than prescribe to folks attention to “that which matters most,” Michael turns the question towards people

To whom are you called?

Who will go with you?

Michael redirects issue-focused conversations to the people whose actual, human, soft, and precious lives are affected, altered, damaged, or saved; the people whose fundamental value is the foundation of value for any and every “issue” or idea in all of human history.

This is why I have been so richly blessed by David Dark’s commitment to Reality.

It is her complex and sacred humanity that is David’s doorway into care for issues and ideas like criminal justice, responsible citizenship, and a more comprehensive expression of what it means to be “Pro-Life.”

“To love a person” David has written, “is to love a process.” Yes. Also, to love a person is to enter into a world full of ideas and dilemmas and issues, but to find them in their proper context; encased in the soft, impermanent flesh of humanity.

So…

What if we’re not so much overwhelmed by the amount of information available to us; what if we’re simply distracted by it. And in our distraction, we lose touch with what enlivens us; what grounds us what makes any and all of the 2.5 quintillion daily data bytes worth a thing.

That our hearts are not build to simply KNOW the world and those who live in it; we are built to care for the world and those who live in it…. So far as we are capable.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

David Dark #2

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 2 Oct 2021 11:00:00 +0000

When I am asked what I do, I often say that I try to prove language for the process of faith and art. I think that does a decent job of describing my work, even if it’s a bit nebulous.

Thing is, language shapes and defines cultures; the difference between one culture and another is often a matter of difference between the words we’re using for the same things.. or even the same experiences.

This is why David Dark is one of the very few second-time guests on this podcast. His very peculiar and precise use of language stretches my imagination to reconsider the words I’m using and more seriously consider many words I avoid.

In this second conversation, we cover a lot of ground (as we often do when we talk), but spend the lions share of our time on, not just a word, but a name:

Reality Winner

That name, and the life of the woman that name references, has been a lightning rod for David on many levels. His continual responsibility to that names has brought to life conversations about what it means to be a patriot, what it means to be a Christian, what it means to be a citizen; words whose ideas propel whole cultures.

Check it out

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Facts & Feelings

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:00:00 +0000

It’s likely you’ve heard something like

“You’re being emotional.”

Or “let’s not bring emotions into this.”

And it’s likely that, when you heard it, it was said in the context of the conversation is about something very, very serious; something serious enough that, were we to “get emotional” or “bring emotions into it” we would complicate it and muddy it.

That has been my training (cultural and institutionally) as well.

That the more real and consequential the thing we’re talking about is, the more important it is that we distance ourselves from whatever feelings we might have and rely on the numbers. Don’t get caught up in sentiments. Look for the bottom line or at least the dominant trends.

Now, I don’t have the time or space here (nor, if I’m honest, the expertise) to dissect what is meant by “feelings” in a lot of these moments; what I am comfortable saying is that it’s a pretty bold move at any point to look at a list of vital human traits like:

Intuition
Memory

or even triggered responses

or trauma

and entirely throw them out because they make the math feel funny about being so cold and… well.. unfeeling.

Is it enough to feel something? Or to have feelings about something? I suppose that, nowadays, before I attempted a straight answer to that, I’d get a little bit Jesus-y about it and turn the question on its head;

Is it enough to know the numbers?

because no... it’s not enough.

It’s not enough to separate any one aspect of human life (or the experience thereof) from all the others and then prioritize that element as more vital or primary; making all other experiences and moments subject to it.

Do the numbers matter? Yes. But only insofar as those numbers represent patterns of very real, often highly individualized human experiences and (lookout) feelings.

Does the way I feel matter? Thank God yes. And if, when I look at the numbers, I find myself alone in the way I feel about something, I get to ask some good/hard questions about how I see and experience my own life.

It is hard to be whole. It is hard as an individual and even more so as a collective.

In part, it’s hard because being whole doesn’t always come with being at peace (within myself or with those I’m living life with).

So if we’re talking about sexual violence, yes, the numbers matter, but they aren’t as weighty as the life’s worth of trauma the woman you’re talking with is carrying because she was one of the “one out of four.”

And if we’re talking about climate change, yes, I get that you need to drive or fly for work (so do I) and that your kids might go to different schools in different parts of town and have sports… but when we look at the statistical realities the scientific community has offered us, it’s probably worth considering what patterns we might help set by our personal, individual changes and sacrifices.

It’s hard to be whole.

Because becoming whole is a process

And it doesn’t resolve.

So,

feelings change

and the numbers keep growing.

Because sometimes the feelings are the facts and sometimes the facts don’t feel right and, therefore they aren’t right.

Because being human always means knowing or assuming or believing or (dare I say it) feeling that there is more to who I am individually and more to who we are collectively than the particular metrics can measure

Whether those metrics are feelings or facts

Whether it is math or connection

Or memory or sentiment

There is always more.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Taylor Schumann

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 16 Sep 2021 18:45:00 +0000

I’ve come to pretty fundamentally believe that some things cannot (and should not) be discussed outside of personal experience. That might sound odd coming from someone with a relatively traditional education in western philosophy. But… here I am.

One of the keenest examples of that is gun violence. The way I see it:

despite the numbers,
despite the mathematics, everything stops with the phrase “I lost a loved one.”
Or “I almost died.”

All that math and all those statistics only matter in light of the value of human life.

And the value of human life is established in places outside of Mathematica and statistics;

Places we call “emotional” or even “sentimental.”

Taylor Schumann’s accounting of gun violence is personal. And that, in my opinion, makes it powerful. Not because the story is dramatic or even culturally triggering. But because, as a matter of statistics fact, there are only so many people who have heard gun-shots near them and faced the actual reality that they might die at the end of a gun.

Taylor Schumann has.

And because she has, I believe her and think what she says matters.

I think you will, too.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Pádraig Ó Tuama

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 2 Sep 2021 17:00:00 +0000

Sometimes, there aren’t sufficient words for a moment or a season or a feeling. The other side to that coin is that sometimes the wild, the unexpected, or inexplicable … serve the blessed purpose of breaking the words we are used to using and inviting us to make something new from their pieces.

This is one way to talk about poetry.

I think of the way the Scriptures of my own religious tradition open with poetry in the strange shadow of timelessness, orderlessness, and the Creative Will of a Being beyond comprehension. That same collection of histories and prophecies and reflections and wisdom texts ends with poetry in the blazing light of a hopeful future beyond either chaos or order or death or time itself.

Poetry is, among other things, a way to say
“There is more here.

I can’t hand it to you plainly,

so I’ll point in its direction

and, in so doing,

honor the complex and beautiful reality
of… well.. reality”

For Pádraig Ó Tuama, many of the realities that frame his personal and cultural history necessitated a treatment and use of language that bent towards the poetic. Pádraig's work is born of political strife, poverty, and a dominant religious culture that often largely denied his humanity; it is work that suggests regularly and beautifully, that there is more here.

I’m a fan of his and had been looking forward to this conversation for years. I hope you enjoy it. I think you will.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Rachel Held Evans, Language, and Trust

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:00:00 +0000

I have mentioned Caroline McIntyre‘s book “caring for words in a culture of lies“ many times over the course of this podcast’s five years. It was, upon first read, a formative and grounding resource; it continues to be.

In part because I have historically had a tendency to talk too much, putting too many words on the table and muddying the connection that better words, more thoughtful words, might have otherwise forged.

Similarly, McIntyre warns that misuse or careless use of words disconnects us from the heart of the things we were talking about; that, if I truly love a subject or an idea or experience or a truth, it is my responsibility, through language, to communicate that subject or idea or experience or truth in a way others might come to appreciate it as well; that when there is a disconnect between a thought I am moved by and the ability of someone I care about to perceive it, that gap is my problem and is a problem of language.

In short, Caroline McIntyre suggests that language is a primary expression of love; love for the things I take interest in and love for those I am living life with.

And in so far as that is the case, that language is an expression of love, how important it is that I recognize the often tragic limitation of language. My words, your words, can never quite capture or enlighten every aspect, angle, and nuance of Life and the particular elements of life in which we find joy and pain.

Which is part of why I am so often moved by the courage of those who are willing to put the best of their words on the table while knowing those words can only do so much. It is also why I am often moved by the courage of those who, after a time, find and apply new words to older conversations in which we’ve grown maybe too comfortable with our language gaps and the divisions we settle into because of them.

For instance, I’ve marveled at those who have faithfully approached the language “God is love” and have been not only consistent enough but humble enough to allow a phrase like that to become less about particular conclusions and more about possibilities.

Which is often what I see in stories about Jesus when, as the conversation about the Love of God hits the table, ends up handling questions like “who is my neighbor?” In response, Jesus offers a story that has layers of cultural implications and a much broader set of possibilities than the “conclusions” his audience had learned were associated with “God” or “Love.”

The possibilities and pathways available in the Divine will always be infinitely more interesting and beautiful than the language we use to point at them; which leads me to think that perhaps the best we can do with our language is hope to point others (or even our own souls) at the Good, True and Beautiful and then trust not only the fuller reality of those things but even other people’s experiences of those things to fill in “the gap.” Maybe everything else is an exercise in control?

So, I think of recent writers like Rachel Held Evans, I don’t find any kind of real scandal in the conclusions she was trying to get people to come to (if there really were any of those); I think the “scandal” of her legacy was the constant and wild suggestion that the love of God is actually for everyone and that, whenever someone has left off of that “everyone,” we’ve come up against a limitation of language and human will and can do better.

I love that.
I really do.

Namely, because I really do believe that if I am not actually scandalized on occasion, I must not be actually paying attention to God.

Great religious language points us to possibilities beyond the words we are currently using and then invites us to trust the rest of our process to the Divine who desires far more than the understanding and cognition we chase with words, but desires, instead…

relationship; an ongoing, evolving, growing, and deepening relationship that is far beyond understanding.

So, maybe we can take the pressure off ourselves and those we’re giving our precious attention to by not having to trust so deeply the messengers, specific. Instead, perhaps can we learn to trust the larger process that the messenger is part of.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Matthew Paul Turner

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 19 Aug 2021 15:00:00 +0000

When Rachel Held Evans died, on May 4 of 2019, she left a significant m emotional and cultural void; one that was felt by her followers and readers but also one that was felt differently by those she was working alongside. See, Rachel was part of a whole tribe of persons working to establish and celebrate a new language for a generation of people of faith. In the long shadow of her passing, other members of the tribe felt a kind of witty responsibility to continue the legacy she was forging.

Among those people was (and is) Matthew Paul Turner. when I met Matthew recently, he was quite literally surrounded by hundreds of copies of his most recent children’s book. As a New York Times best-selling children’s author, Matthew had taken on the particular and beautiful responsibility of finishing a children’s book project Rachel had begun before she passed.

Entitled, “What Is God Like?” the book is less an effort to answer the question precisely and more an imaginative exploration of the possibilities that question presents; possibilities that might mean that there is room in God for everyone.

It is a poignant and appropriate continuation of Rachel Held Evans‘s legacy. It is also a beautiful and powerful addition to the body of work Matthew Paul Turner is releasing into the world.

I truly enjoyed my conversation with Matthew and I think you will too.

Check it out

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

The Power of Celebrity

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:00:00 +0000

The way I hear it used, the word “celebrity” almost always comes with a tinge of disdain. In fact, I was recently interviewing a band about their relatively wild public success and used the word “celebrity” to ask a question about how it felt to have the kind of influence they’d garnered. Boy oh boy did they distance themselves from that word. They wanted nothing to do with it. Not one bit.

The next few minutes featured phrases like

“We’re not celebrities.”

and

“I really don’t think that word describes what we do.”

Or just flat out “I don’t like that word.”

The lead singer of the band then went on to be very clear that there were just “normal people” with normal lives who make music; That the celebrity aspect of things caused a gap between them and their audience they didn’t want. “We go through all the same things y’all go through.”

I do understand that.
I also resonate with it.

At the same time (and you can feel this part coming), I struggle with making simple what I think is a slightly more nuanced reality.

See, just about 3 hrs after I wrapped that interview with them, that band got on microphones that amplified their voices over hundreds of feet from the smoke-and-light drenched stage they stood on; a stage that was 8 feet off the ground, literally holding them up above the people who had paid to see them.
See, I don’t have any problem at all with that band being on stage with lights and smoke or that people pay to see them. I think all that makes some sense because they’ve committed to their artwork, it has connected with and made a difference to a lot of people.

Which makes me wonder if the actual moral dilemma good-hearted people have with the word or concept of “Celebrity” is that it’s a way to talk about power; I wonder if it’s the power we’re sometimes afraid of having.. or at least the power we’re afraid other people see us have.

I remember being pointed towards James Baldwin’s work by black activist friends here in the Bay Area and being pretty surprised to find clip after clip of him on Television programs in the late 1960s. And not just his appearance on PBS programs but on celebrity-heavy programs like the Dick Cavett show, which preceded Johnny Carson’s show, which set the tone for Jay Lenno, David Letterman and pretty much any Late Night show you and I have ever seen.

Part of why I found it surprising is not only because Baldwin was a black man in the 1960s but that he was also gay. And publicly so. In each of his TV appliances, James Baldwin is confident and clear; resolved and unshakeable, even in the face of at times direct challenges to his philosophy, his intellect, and (as a gay, black man) his right to even exist.
He wielded the power of the position he was handed by PBS and Dick Cavett without a hint of the hesitation I saw in that band I mentioned earlier.
And I won’t pretend to know Baldwin’s mind here… but… I do wonder a few things;
I wonder if he found the work he was up to vital enough that he was willing to bypass the emotional crisis his opportunities presented. And/or I wonder if he simply wanted the power of the positions he was granted because he trusted himself to wield it well.

Which is to say, I wonder if he didn’t worry much at all about being a “celebrity” or being seen as one because he knew what he was up to, knew it was important and knew he’d do it wisely, lovingly, and well.

Before that band I was talking with left the stage from our interview, several audience members asked questions about their lives and practices; looking for inspiration or help or clairvoyant for their own lives and practices. A few even shared about ways the band’s work had deeply changed a moment or even a whole season in life.

The way I saw it, while this band didn’t like the word “celebrity,” they had been wielding the specific power the word describes well enough to make that room of people feel loved; and probably many other rooms just like it.

I think it’s unavoidable that some people get lifted up “above” others for one reason or another. I think that’s our nature. Sometimes that’s because they’re cute and funny, sometimes it’s because they paid their way there and sometimes that’s because they’re simply so good at what they do that they cannot and should not be ignored by the masses.

The real question becomes, then, the same question anyone has to answer when offered power in another life: What will you do with the power that position offers you?
I wonder if saying “I don’t want it” is an expression of fear rather than humility.
I wonder if pretending you’re a “normal” person and “just like everyone else” when you’re handed a microphone and given access to the consciousness and wills and emotions of hundreds or thousands or even millions of people is a quiet way to excuse oneself from the responsibility of the position you’ve either earned or been handed.

When it comes to the power of Celebrity, I get that it can be a terrifying thing. But insofar as it is a cultural and anthropological reality, I don’t think you have to not want that power to be responsible for it.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Ben Higgins

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 5 Aug 2021 11:00:00 +0000

I actually never watched the Batchelor. And that’s not a thing I say with pride or any sense of superiority. I honestly just don’t watch a lot of TV and haven’t since I was about 12, when shows like “The A-Team” and “Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom” took up space on the probably 20 networks available. So, when I connected with Ben Higgins on Twitter, I didn’t exactly know why a few of my online friends freaked out a bit. See, while I came to find out Ben was a “celebrity” in the most “celebrity” of ways, having done reality TV like The Bachelor, I found a man who wasn’t resting on the random success that such a thing offers; I found in him someone who was looking at where he was, the influence he had on hand and asking the question “What can I make with this?”

I loved talking with Ben (on his show and then on mine).

I think you’ll enjoy it, too.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Simone Biles, Athletics and Whole Health

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 29 Jul 2021 14:39:36 +0000

Stephen Pressfield calls it “Resistance.”

A number of religious traditions call it “sin.”

But regardless of the name folks apply to it, it seems to me that we generally share, cross-culturally and throughout history, a sense and a lament that things don’t work out perfectly; that things fall apart and that plans don’t always go in order.

In that light, part of what that means in my personal history is that planning for success means planning for (or at the very least be prepared for) things not going well.

Now before you hear me preaching an “it is what it is” message, counter to the heart of my most recent book effort, I promise you that’s not what I’m saying. Instead, I’d suggest that the anticipation of obstacles and missteps sets me up to see those moments differently; that even my missteps and failed attempts can be elements of my creative process.

What do I do with the moment things go … wrong?

This week, gymnastics legend Simone Biles pulled out of events in the Olympics, setting off a series of reflections and discussions (including this one) about mental health, sports ethics, performance patterns, rising to the challenge, and public responsibility.

There are moments when the best of us, in us or about isn’t available for our “greatest opportunities.” Things don’t always work optimally in optimal situations.

In my reading, it’s not what Simone Biles was up against (internally and externally), it’s what she did with that moment, both professionally and publicly, that makes this the moment it is. She chose her health over performance and then told the world. And in so doing, I’d suggest that she moved the goal post regarding what “greatness” can look like for a Legendary athlete.

In 2020, the American Medical Society for Sports Medicine published a short study about the detection, treatment, and prevention of mental health issues in competitive athletes. Along with more recognizable factors like “perfectionism,” the study delves into what is known as “Athlete Identity,” which is the degree to which someone views themselves within the athletic role and looks to others for confirmation of that role.

In short, an unhealthy dependence of an individual on their success in that one area of life comes at the cost of overall health. And we hear that put really simply by athletes like Simone Biles when she says, just hours after pulling herself from competition on the global stage, “There's more to life than athletics.”

Or why, in response to Simone Biles's story, we hear Michael Phelps, a legend in his own right and time, say “We’re human beings. Nobody is perfect. It’s okay not to be okay.”

See,.. what if it’s harder to be a whole and healthy human being than it is to be great at any particular thing? What if Simone Biles actually took a step towards whole human goodness by removing herself from the metrics that confirm her greatness as an “Athlete?”

In 2009, David Bazan released one of my favorite songs, entitled “Hard To Be.” A somewhat tongue-in-cheek examination of the Biblical notion of sin, David walks through some of the odder explanations and justifications for the fact that life is hard; that things fall apart, and that people get hurt.

Then, he daftly returns, in the chorus to the very simple, fundamental truth that

It’s hard to be

Hard to be

A decent human being.

Yes, it is.

And let that make us fans of one another. That, just as we pause the celebrate Simone Biles’s remarkable and unparalleled talent, we’d pause to cheer on our neighbors and roommates as they pursue wholeness and health and the full life God desires for beloved ones around us. As hard as it might be to achieve the things that make one an Olympic champion in a season of life, it just might be harder to live healthily, well, and wholly over the course of a lifetime.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

KJ Ramsey

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 22 Jul 2021 11:00:00 +0000

I was setting up to interview an upcoming guest when she told me “I’m sorry I’ll have to be pretty strict with the hour and leave right away. I’m seeing my therapist right after this.”

“Absolutely,” I told her. “We’ll probably talk for 45 min.”
“Great. I’m really looking forward to this session with her.”

Now, it’s not just of note that this guest was looking forward to her therapy session; but also of note that this guest is a Spiritual Director.

Therapy is not for “weak” people.

Therapy is for people

Who wants to live into their strengths.

Therapy is not for “broken” people

Therapy is for people who want to want to live healed and whole.

Therapy is not for “sick” people

Therapy is for people who value their health.

Part of what I think you’ll hear in my conversation with KJ Ramsey is that posture towards therapy and what is now often called “self-care.” The practice and belief that confessing and facing my shortcomings is an expression of health and strength.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

You Are The Gift

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 15 Jul 2021 19:50:00 +0000

Toward the end of the introduction of my most recent book, It Is What You Make Of It, is a kind of admonition; a clarion call, as it were.

“There is a virtual army of contentious voices around you screaming that life “ is what it is,“ and particularly in places, you feel stuck.

Your work-life quote is what it is.“

Your social life “is what it is.“

Your physical health “is what it is“

I’m saying all that is garbage. Your life is not just a set of steel circumstances that “or what they are“ without any hope of change or improvement or transformation. I don’t know exactly where that voice is coming from in your particular life, but I want to help you locate it and shut it up forever.”

It’s actually a somewhat poorly kept secret that I’m not always very interested in the specific accomplishments or achievements of those I get to work with as a coach. In other words, while I certainly do find a lot of the projects my clients introduce me to interesting, it’s pretty much never the book or the album or the business startup or jewelry line I’m emotionally invested in. Instead, I am regularly and often deeply moved by the person doing the work; who they are, and who they are be becoming.

You are the gift you are offering the world.

The service or the artifact you’re working at or dreaming up is how you’re passing yourself on.

Which is why one of the most important chapters for me to have written in that book (the one I read from a few moments ago) highlights a rather unsavory event from my vocational history. I won’t recount the entire story here; I think it’s worth reading in the book.

But for the purposes of this episode, here it goes, in short:

I was working with a designer/art director on what would be my first book project. It was a massive project because we’d thrown in visual art, a second edition of the book, documentary video, and music…

So… having bitten off WAY more than I could chew in the time I gave us as a two-person team, I was stressed.

We’d passed our first self-imposed deadline and then another and then I realized how badly I needed to get the thing turned in to be available for the tour dates I’d booked.

in my stress, I blew up at one of the customer service agents who was employed by the printing service we’d hired to make the book.

We’d had a few errors come back when we submitted the files and I … kinda .. lost it.

I don’t remember exactly what I said at the moment, but it was pretty insulting and the young man on the phone took it personally. And then… he quietly and very effectively retaliated by digitally corrupting the upload process so that, over the next several weeks, it became impossible for my project to be approved and completed.

Eventually, my partner took over the conversation with the printer and we got the thing done.

And.. honestly, I’ve always been decently happy with that project; it’s not great.

But

The most important aspect of that entire process was that I realized I didn’t like who I became while making it. And that being someone I liked; someone respected by partners and workmates and readers and listeners (… someone who respects and honors partners and workmates and readers and listeners) was not only more valuable and more desirable, it’s more enjoyable.

I am the gift I am giving in and through my work.

It’s not the service or the artifact I’m working at or dreaming up; it’s me, through what I’m making.

Which is why, along with 4:30 am wake-ups to ensure I put my most focused work hours in when my head is clearest, I do the work of ensuring I can be clear at all.

I see a therapist and have for many, many years.

I work with a spiritual director.

I get exercise and get sleep

I’ll find myself a session or two with a new coaching client, hearing the hesitation and confusion on their end while I ask them about how often they’re getting outside and what time they’re getting to sleep. I stopped asking about the project and started tying the value of even doing the project to their health and wholeness because that’s what I think it’s all about to begin with.

You are the gift you are giving the world.

Which leads me to this: in the same way that books don’t write themselves and melodies don’t just fall into place; in the same way that Justice doesn’t just roll down and Peace doesn’t just get a chance… you and I do not simply become. You and I don’t just get healthy. Just like your idea needs time and curation and attention from you, you and I need the help of those outside us in order to be shaped and grow; sometimes even just to heal and get right.

I don’t recommend therapy because I think you’re broken.

I don’t recommend spiritual direction because I think you’re lost.

I don’t coach because I think you’re incapable.

I think you might be just fine without any of that.
I really do.

But I don’t do what I do, whether it’s this podcast or the book “It Is What You Make Of It” because I want you and I to be fine. I want you and I to be way better than that; and that takes deep, hard, inner-work… often work you and I don’t have the training or expertise to executer much less the altitude on our own lives to do effectively.

So, while you’re working on your passion project and your legacy, who’s working on you?

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

https://monicadicristina.com

Monica DiCristina

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 1 Jul 2021 11:00:00 +0000

You know that friend who gets to the gym 7 days every week. I think we all have that friend (if we’re not that friend).

I don’t think I’ve ever heard a friend like that called “weak” for working out regularly. Quite the opposite.

Sometimes that friend gets called “obsessive” or something like that (often by people who aren’t taking their physical health as seriously)

But.. even, in that case, they’re overdoing a good thing; nobody is suggesting that the desire to hit the gym is, in and of itself a sign and practice of weakness.

So, why isn’t that the case with therapy? Why is it that, even now, after all, we know about brain chemistry, the control mechanisms in human psychology, and the well-funded attempts by markets, political systems, and corporations to manipulate human thought and emotion.. that the dominant pushback folks have about going to therapy.. is about being, or appearing “weak?”

I don’t really know the answer to that in full

What I know is that some of the language used to critique psychotherapy and the need for it emanates from Western Religion.

Which is part of what makes Monica DiChristina’s work so interesting and important.

I really enjoyed my conversation with her and I think you will, too.

Check it out.

Links for Monica DiChristina:

Links for Justin :

Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

Episode Sponsored by BetterHelp

Check them out - http://betterhelp.com/atsea

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

The Work of Art

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 11:00:00 +0000

I remember sitting on the edge of a hotel bed, sorting through line after line of a ledger to figure out if the tour manager had missed paying me, two weeks prior, the $55 per night I was promised.

At that point, Frank Tate, who owned the label I was on and whose band was headlining the tour AND who I’d struck the $55/night deal, pulled some cash out of his wallet at said “Okay. Here’s $55. Let’s get back to work now.”

As we left the hotel room, I sidled up to Frank, thinking he’d taken my side against the faulty memory of our tour manager. “Thanks for your help in there.”

But he hadn’t taken my side.

At least not the way I wanted him to.

“I gave you the money because I didn’t care. You shouldn’t, either. You should be thankful you get to do this.”

It felt like a jab at the time.

It wasn’t.

It was the push I needed.

I was the weakest part of that tour. Easily.
But not even that was Frank’s point.

Frank was wanting me to love the work more than I loved the results of the work.
He knew I’d be around longer if I did.

If you’ve read “It Is What You Make Of It,” you’ll know there are even more stories about Frank Tate’s influence on the way I see my life and work and the relationship between.

Years later, my experience and reflection on the love of work resulted in an analogy I used in my 2nd book, which I called Title Pending.

The book was a kind of precursor to "It Is What You Make Of It”

In that book, I recall a memory about, my son in which we went hiking. We left the place we lived and drove about 15 miles across the way to Mount Diablo. On the drive over, my son was really excited to get to the mountain. But as we got closer to the mountain, the houses in front of the mountain blocked his view. Once we were there on the trail and hiking up the mountain, you couldn’t see the mountain at all. My son got confused and “Where did the mountain go?”

I said “buddy, we’re on the mountain. This is the mountain” and he didn’t believe me. “This is the mountain. We’re on it.” But what Asa didn’t know (and was learning) is that, once you’re on the mountain, it doesn’t look like a mountain anymore; It looks like 400 feet of dirt. And if I don’t apply my energy and the best of my efforts in that 400 feet and then the next 400 feet and then the next 400 feet, I don’t get to the top of the mountain, which is what I intended to do. From a distance, the mountain is beautiful and majestic and I want to be there. But then once I’m there, I lose that majestic vision and I just have the 400 feet of dirt; I just have the work.

So, with books, it doesn’t look like 175 - 200 pages of printed text, it looks like 4 AM wake-ups and long slogs on the keyboard with a blank page in front of me. In music, it looks like a bad song after a bad song with lyrics that don’t pair and a melody that just doesn’t seem to make sense (until finally, it does). In a relationship, it looks like arguments and therapy and other friends helping out.

The work of life is the thing I need to fall in love with in order to love the life I’m living.

And one of the great gifts artists can offer the world is to stick around long enough to become disillusioned with “success” the way they were chasing it, fall in love with the process. Talk about their process. Share their process so that, when we’re in the midst of our own slog or in the midst of our own work, we look around our own lives and are not just inspired by the success and by the beauty and by the accomplishment of that artist, we are challenged and informed by the way they got there.

That’s one of the things that makes it art.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

https://www.christopherw.com

Christopher Williams

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 15:40:00 +0000

In his Legendary book “The War of Art” Steven Pressfield writes:

“The professional arms himself with patience, not only to give the stars time to align in his career but to keep himself from flaming out in each individual work. He knows that any job, whether it’s a novel or a kitchen remodel, takes twice as long as he thinks and costs twice as much. . . [he] steels himself at the start of a project, reminding himself it is the Iditarod, not the sixty-yard dash. He conserves his energy. He prepares his mind for the long haul.”

I’ve personally met very few artists who embody and practice that attitude quite as well or as consistently as Christopher Williams.

Like the Professional in Pressfield’s book, Chris does the work of being an artist.

Little to no flash (though there’s definitely some pizazz on display when he’s playing that hand drum)
No complaining (though he can clearly articulate the difficulty of life as a full-time artist)

Little to nothing extra:

Just the songs, which, 14 projects later, are better than they’ve ever been.

This is my conversation with singer, songwriter, and percussionist, Christopher Williams

Links for Christopher Williams

Links for Justin :

Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

Episode Sponsored by BetterHelp

Check them out - http://betterhelp.com/atsea

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Poetry, Love and Control

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:00:00 +0000

A number of years ago, I sat in on a reading by the poet Gregory Orr. Gregory Or was then (and is now) a favorite poet of mine. In fact, he’s a favorite writer of mine. He was maybe five or six pieces into this reading when a conversation struck up between two of the other gentleman in the room. Sitting behind me, I heard one of them saying, loudly enough for me to hear,

“I don’t understand any of this”

I’d definitely heard that about poetry or about poems before. I’ve probably even said that even as an English major and someone who writes poetry.

“I don’t get it”

So, that’s not the remarkable part of the story; to say or hear “I don’t understand this poem or poetry.” What was notable was that the person he was talking to gave that moment of pause and said…

“Actually, not everything is meant to be understood.”

This need or desire and me to understand is, in essence, an expression of control. When I talk about “getting” something, when I talk about “understanding” something, part of what I mean by that is that I have a kind of power over it. Part of what good (if not great) poetry does is it disorients me to my own language; the words I normally would use to identify, name, pin down and control the world around me. Great poetry gives me the opportunity to get an attitude over my own life; to re-orient myself and my perspective to be, in fact, charmed again by the life I’m actually living.

And while you will not find in me an enemy of liberalism on the whole, what you will hear me say is that a strict literalist understanding of life, scripture, relationship, and humanity steals from me the sacred joy and gift of being named in my life.

See. when I name myself or a name my world, I generally do so (unfortunately) in a posture of power and control and in usefulness. All the while, near the heart of my being, is the desire to be more than useful

to be more than understood

and more than powerful too, in fact, be loved

And to be Beloved

is a thing I can only be named

from outside myself.

Deeper than that:

To receive that Title from someone else, from a culture, or from God, requires me to be in a position of powerlessness requires me to be in a position in which I don’t get to understand I simply get to receive

Poetry primes the spirit,

primes the mind,

loosens to grips I have

on the language

by which I will control

my life

my definitions

and postures me to actually become

someone who can be loved.

and is that not the thing in life that is simply wider, deeper, stronger, and better than any form of understanding: love

One of the great tragedies of religious culture and religious practice is the propensity to lean towards literalism. Bot because literalism is an enemy in and of itself; it’s simply a limited way to understand the language by which we talk about humanity and the divine and history and relationship. Some things, yes, should be understood. But only in the service of posturing me to love my world better.

The need I have (and desire I have) to understand the world around me should always be subservient to the deeper desire to love my world. To understand you should not be my goal; To love you well should.

And yes, sometimes when I don’t understand you and I don’t understand “why you are the way you are,” it can be more difficult to love you. On the other hand, sometimes the desire to just “get you” is too small a goal; I don’t get the great joy of discovering and learning and having to expand in order to receive you as you are.

And that is the call of great poetry; to pause long enough to listen to the pattern, to the rhythm, to the placement and the choice of the words on the page or uttered by the author's mouth.

That I would open myself up

slightly wider

to a different understanding

of the same word

that I might receive that word

might receive that reality

on a deeper level

in a different way.

And if I can do that with language

then maybe I can do that

with the people around me.

Culture is usually formed and shaped and solidified by the words we use to identify the lines between people; I’m here you’re there and this is our relationship.

Poetry takes those words and sometimes unpacks them and sometimes unpacks us with them. That we might look around our lives and inside ourselves and say something more like this:

“I don’t understand and that’s probably not just OK; that’s probably good. Because I’m not here to ‘get it…

I’m here to love well.’”

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Tanner Olson

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 3 Jun 2021 11:00:00 +0000

In a bio of mine, I describe myself as someone who desires to “provide language for the process of life and faith” I am a “words” person. Not everyone has to be or is. But I certainly care quite a bit about the words I use and the words that I take into my life.

A lot of that came from a book I read a number of years ago by Marilyn Chandler McIntyre. The book is called “Caring For Words In A Culture Of Lies.” Right smack dab in the middle of the book is this notion she writes out with beautiful words. It says

“The business of telling the truth and caring for the words we need for that purpose is more challenging than ever before simply the scale on which lies can be and are propagated can be overwhelming“

Because of that urgency, I’ve moved from just admiring and enjoying poetry to understanding poetry as a gift to great good and powerful culture.

For a number of years, Tanner Olson has been making poetry and putting it in the world. He’s also one of those artists who recognize that the work he does requires a bit of translation. He’s not just a poet who puts poems in the world and hopes that people might or might not get them. He actually invites people into his process as a writer because he is actually doing the work of caring for the language is using and its impact on those to take it in.

I’ve enjoyed watching him from afar I’ve enjoyed our growing friendship and I really enjoy this conversation I think you will, too.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Staying Power

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 27 May 2021 11:00:00 +0000

During studio sessions with younger or inexperienced musicians, my dear friend and music producer Masaki Liu would often be asked questions like “What do you think about our chances?” Or “Do you think we can make it?”

And, more often than not, he’d consistently respond with an intentionally cryptic piece of encouragement that went pretty much like this, word-for-word:

“If you keep at it and stick with it, stay together as a band and keep making music, you’re going to be around for a long time.”

Often enough, the band would take that as a compliment, though it wasn’t entirely intended to be. See, in that moment, what the band or artist wanted to know and hear was that they were good enough right there, right then. And that, because they were good enough, right there and right then, they had a more secure and hopeful future.

The thing is… like just about everyone, including me when I started recording with him, … that young or inexperienced artist or band wasn’t good enough to “make it” right there, right then.

Most of those artists and bands aren’t “around” right now making music. They didn’t make it long-term the way they were dreaming too. And there’s no shame in that: very few do.

And I’m pretty convinced part of that part of why so few are still at it, investing in their chosen discipline years down the line is because it’s so easy to become focused to the point of obsession with early success or shallow metrics like being good enough, right now.

Yes, there is something to be said for having talent for the thing I want to do. But, more substantial than that, the strengths and capacities that are necessary in order to make a career or a relationship or an organization or movement or dream work long-term are only developed over time and in a commitment to my own process of becoming.

Early in my religious training, a lot was made out of what was called “The armor of God.” In a letter written to new religious converts in Ephesus, The Apostle Paul encourages the Ephesians to put on this armor, as one might do in preparation for battle. He talks about the evil of the world and the dark forces they’ll be up against and prescribes the wearing of:

truth… righteousness … peace… faith..

But not so that they would go out and win battle after battle and conquer the world around them with the fervor of young soldiers.
Instead, Paul prescribes the wearing of this armor (and this is from the letter itself):

“so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground”

When it passes, will you still be here? Will you still be standing?

At the time of this writing, I’m just a few days away from the release of what will be my 5th book, overall. Entitled “It Is What You Make Of It,” there are stories in the book from the past few years of my work as well as from as long ago as high school and my childhood. The thing that binds together the stories in this book is the perspective and the wisdom I have from where I am. Which is to say, 'who I am now looking back on who I was'.

I did what Masaki said to do. I stayed. I’m still here. And there simply isn’t a singular victory or success in the entirety of my career that means as much to me as to say, “I’m still here. I’m still at it. And yes, because I’ve been at it for this long, I am better at what I do now than I’ve ever been at anything I’ve done previously. I am more equipped because I am more of the person I need to be in order to do the work I want to do.”

The day I’m writing this is also the one-year anniversary of the murder of George Floyd. A moment in America’s racial history that opened the door for a great many people to enter into the work of justice and reconciliation, many of them for the first time.

It is a good work.

It is a necessary work.

It is also a difficult work in which victories and accomplishments and benchmarks can seem small, at times insignificant, and far too infrequent.

Which is to say that it is a work that can be deeply exhausting, particularly if I am deriving my energies from achieving the next success required of the work instead of becoming the kind of person who does the work, even in the face of disappointment

See, there was and is a pearl of very practical and lifelong wisdom in Masaki Liu‘s decision to not answer directly the question being asked of him in the studio. If you want to know if you’re good enough right now, I’m not going to answer that question for you. The real question is,...

Will you be here long enough to become the kind of person who does the kind of work you want to do today?

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

https://www.jjheller.com/

JJ and Dave Heller

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 20 May 2021 11:00:00 +0000

Close to 20 years ago, I sat in a park near my place in The Bay Area, talking with Dave and JJ about their hopes and dreams. Having spent the first few years of their musical career between Arizona and California, they were right on the edge of a move to Nashville.

They wanted to take a full, big league, swing at their work and believed that move would do it.

Which is to say, they were doing what I regularly tell my clients to do, especially when young and less attached:

They were betting on themselves and it has been a sincere joy to see them keep doing that.

Because among the many rewards and awards available to professional artists, the joy of having stayed, over years and then decades is among the richest and most valuable.

This is my conversation with JJ and Dave Heller

Check it out.

Links for JJ and Dave Heller

Links for Justin :

Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

Check them out - http://betterhelp.com/atsea

Episode Sponsored by BetterHelp

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Listening Comes First

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin MCRoberts) — Thu, 13 May 2021 11:00:00 +0000

In the 8th chapter of the biblical book of acts is a fascinating story about a man named Philip.

Philip, a member of the early Church, hears what the writer of the story names as the voice of God saying “Go south.”
So, he does

And as he does, he comes across an Ethiopian eunuch riding in a chariot

You know... like ya do.

Upon this encounter, Philip hears what the writer of the story identifies as the voice of God says “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”

Which Phillip then does. And standing there long enough, he hears the eunuch in the chariot reading from what we now call the Old Testament prophets; readings Phillip and his new religious community would be familiar with.

From that moment, Phillip then engages in a deeply resonant conversion with his new friend in which he is asked to help guide and clarify the spiritual awakening Already taking place in the heart, mind, and spirit, and body in the chariot.

Which is to say, the entirety of this story is predicated on Phillip’s ability, capacity, and choice to listen. Without that choice and without that discipline, there is no encounter, no relationship, and no story.

In art, like in a relationship and, I would suggest, in good religion, listening comes first.

A number of years ago now, perhaps 15 or so, a large group of teenagers from a different state descended upon San Francisco California, just next to where I live. Their mission was to call on the citizens of that city and its leadership to repent from sin and turn their eyes upon the Lord. Being from elsewhere, most of the rumors and stories they were familiar with about San Francisco were of the sordid type. It was, in their estimation and understanding, a broken place in need of rescue from the outside.

Most of what they did with their time looked a bit like a protest, gatherings on the steps of City Hall holding signs about repentance while singing songs they learned in church services or at youth gatherings.

And I’ll be honest right now and tell you that I don’t think the primary error here had to do with bringing their particular brand of the Christian religion to San Francisco. Instead, the thing missing here for me is that they did not talk to and listen to Christians whose religion was being lived out in San Francisco and included a deep love for that city.

They did not go to the chariot and stand near long enough to hear or see or smell or sense what God might already be up to in the place they were going.

I might go so far as to suggest that nothing on the other side of such an error was going to go well.

When I started this podcast, my hope and intention was to bend my ear towards murky and turbulent waters in which important decisions are being made that change the lives and trajectories of beloved human beings. What I wasn’t interested in was attending to the problems in those waters as I understood them. Instead, what I have chosen and attempted to do is to hear what it sounds like for goodness, truth, and beauty shine and stir and grow in places I don’t fully understand and in people I don’t know yet.

Which is to say, for the past six seasons, I have been learning to conclude more slowly and judge less harshly, and act more wisely,… primarily by learning to listen more carefully.

Because, if I do not do that well, I cannot love well.

Among the many short snippets of wisdom I have gathered on my Instagram feed, is this one I return to often.

In order to

wisely and lovingly

deliver goodness to another soul,

(and here I would add:

“or another place or culture,“

I need to know that soul,

that place

or that culture.

The lifeblood of any good work

is listening.

Links for Justin :

Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

https://www.nicklaparra.com

Nick Laparra

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 6 May 2021 11:00:00 +0000

The @ Sea podcast started out to be (and I hope continues to be) a helpful and hopeful guide through sometimes murky or turbulent cultural waters. Some of what that looks like is talking to people I don't align with politically, ideologically, culturally,...

Not because it's enough to simply "celebrate diversity" but because the discipline and practice of listening is the key to moving beyond division to understanding and then towards care. One of the reasons I gravitate towards podcasts is for this very reason.

My guest on this episode is Nick Laparra, whose "Let's Give A Damn" podcast is among my favorites. Not only because of the variety of his guests but I like the way he approaches his work.

Nick is always prepared. He's also legitimately thoughtful (without being "heady") and curious (without being invasive).

I think that makes for great listening.

This is my conversation with Nick Laparra

Links for Nick Laparra

Links for Justin :

Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Hermeneutics, LGBTQ Youth, and the Pursuit of Love

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 29 Apr 2021 11:00:00 +0000

I remember being in a conversation, I think it was my Junior year of college, in which I was fully introduced to the term “hermeneutics.” I’d been familiar with “interpretation” before but the idea that there was a field of study based on the interpretive potters of readers was fascinating to me. It actually gave me a bit of altitude in understanding and appreciating the differences I was running into among people, specifically around religious ideas.

The conversation was set up around a presentation we’d just heard by a Grad Student, who had written a paper on what she called “A Feminist Hermeneutic.” During our talk, one of my fellow classmates communicated his discomfort with the presenter’s angle, at one point saying “if you read the Bible, or anything, through a ‘feminist lens’ all you’ll end up with is feminism and not the Bible or whatever else you’re reading.”

For a while, that thought stuck around and controlled the conversation as we talked about how important it was to read “great works” clearly and well.

Then, our professor, who had mostly been quiet, asked “where did you get your interpretation?”

The room fell silent. Literally, nobody had thought about it; the lot of us was quietly and unknowingly not only favoring our interpretive angle but not even seeing it as an angle.

Now, for anyone who isn’t white or male, that encounter might not seem all that revelatory. But for us, mostly white men in that room, we’d not considered that our take on things was interpretive; we had assumed we were the baseline…

Now, it’s both worth noting and it is unsurprising that the process of seeing my perspective and experience as one among many has been ongoing, at times uncomfortable and, more than anything, deeply enriching. Far from diminishing my understanding of Truth, recognizing my own hermeneutic(s) has come with far more mature and humbler respect for Divine truth, Scientific Fact, and Human the human experience of Reality.

Holding my interpretations and perspectives more loosely has meant freedom.

I don’t have to be right in order to feel and be rightly placed.
I don’t have to understand in order to feel and be seen or known
I don’t have to “get it” in order to feel and be respected.

If the Truth or Meaning does not belong to me, then I am free to belong to the Truth and for my life to have Meaning well beyond myself and my understanding. It’s all just bigger and deeper and wider and just… more.. and far deeper and wider and more than my capacity to possess it.

Which is part of why I’ve found the brick wall and friction that so often characterizes conversations about homosexuality or queerness and religion so… sad.

At least some (if not a large part) of what is at hand in religious disagreement about human sexuality is a matter of hermeneutics; it is, in large part, an interpretive difference. And I’ll risk sounding naive here by saying that, while I certainly understand that some interpretive disagreements are more serious because some matters are more serious, I’m … flat out heartbroken by the ways this particular hermeneutic, theological and philosophical conversation ends relationships, personally and institutionally.

And I’m not here to say “can’t we all just get along?” No, I want to say something else, entirely.

During the second half of that conversation my Junior year, the half led by our professor, he reminded us that the name of the course we were in was “Philosophy.” Which literally means “the love of wisdom.” He challenged us to note that what we were doing wasn’t philosophy at all. And while I wouldn’t have named it at the time, I can now: we weren’t pushing wisdom out of love, we were pursuing control by way of knowledge.

We wanted to decide who gets in and who stays out, not just according to the articulation of their knowledge base, but according to whether or not their existing knowledge matched our own.

That's a power struggle and has nothing to do with either wisdom or love.

If I am truly to pursue wisdom, I don’t get to decide who else joins the chase.

How much more is that the case If I am truly to seek God.

And again, I’ll risk sounding simple-minded here: I sincerely wonder if the chaos and division and impassability of this space isn’t predominately because of a lack of sincere love between those arguing or conversing. I wonder if, as the Scriptures themselves warn against, too many of us are too full and puffed up with the knowledge that we lack room in us for the Love that would make our knowledge worth having at all.

Earlier this year, rapper Propaganda released a song in which is written:

“We ain't gotta be enemies but I got non-negotiables

All ideas ain't equal, bro“

And boy do I resonate with that.

Not all interpretations are equal and not all ideas are equal.

But the people who hold those ideas and hold to these interpretations… are. And that is a thing far more vital than my rightness and far more weighty than my knowledge.

Suicide rates among LGBTQ teens in religious settings is statistically and significantly higher. And while there are many ways to interpret that data, here’s a thing I’m comfortable saying: it matters more that kids are made to feel less safe and valuable in religious settings than it matters that my religious interpretations are on point. So, forgive me for projecting a bit here. But if that’s not the place we’re starting from, then it’s no wonder we seem to be getting nowhere.

So, I honestly don’t fully grasp why it is that, among the religious, we are so willing to delegitimize and dehumanize whole people (and whole people groups) in order to make room for our interpretive conclusions but I’m worn out by that sacrifice and wonder if God might be as well.

Links for Justin :

Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

https://www.thekevingarcia.com

Kevin Garcia

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Kevin Garcia, Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 12:00:00 +0000

I ask just about all my guests about life online. I'm of the opinion that "real" life happens there and I'm increasingly interested in the way it does; particularly when that happening takes on labels like "religion" or "faith" or "spirituality." I think a fair amount of personal formation takes place online and I'm intrigued (art least) by the people who take that formation seriously as well as take some degree of responsibility for it.

My guest in this episode is Kevin Garcia, who has called himself a "digital pastor." And while I know there are a number of folks who might balk at that term out of wonder or even concern, I'm pretty sure there's a lot to it.

There's certainly a lot to Kevin, who works with (and pastors) people at the intersection of faith, sexuality, and touch of psychotherapy. In that work, Kevin converses with, teaches, and digitally pastors people who often lack access to invested leadership and spiritual care.

This is my conversation with Kevin Garcia.

Check it out.

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Ideology As Idolatry

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 1 Apr 2021 15:05:00 +0000

I feel like I’ve always been aware of the sociopolitical battle lines between differing thoughts on “abortion” or preemptive war, but the comprehensive, nearly wholesale division and split between people with competing ideologies nowadays is … heartbreaking and scary.

In other words, it’s no longer just that I think you’re wrong about this or that; it's that, if you entertain these specific thoughts, then you are aligned with that particular culture, which means you’re in this camp and part of this tribe and, as part of that camp/tribe/people, WHO YOU ARE offends and threatens me.

I think the grief for me here is that, in conversations about competing ideologies these days, I am treated as if I am my ideas.

Thing is: I’m not.

I have ideas and some of them are weighty in my mind. But, as important as any of them might be, I’m not defined by my ideas. Heck a number of them are in conflict with other ideas in me, not to mention in conflict with some of my feelings and even the ways I choose to live despite some of those thoughts and feelings.

I’m not trying to be a centrist. I’ve tried that and I just ended up lying to myself and others about things I really knew or believed or cared about.

So, don’t hear me trying to communicate some kind of intrinsic value for “the middle.” I’m well aware that, in particular moments, there are toxic and destructive ideas and ideologies moving people to hurt other people and, in those moments, that idea or ideology must be dealt with, shouted down, undone, and deleted. But what makes that kind of effort worth it isn’t that there are better ideas; it’s that better ideas make for healthier people. And it’s that same value of/for people that seems to get lost more frequently than I recall.

And maybe it’s always been a matter of identity. Maybe that’s new. I honestly can’t tell. What I know is that I don’t see minds changed very often. Nowhere near as I see enemies made and friendships lost.

During season 1 of this podcast, author Michael Wear warned against the desire or expectation to find a “home” in a political ideology out a political party; suggesting that the only places left where unchecked bias was not only allowed but championed was in the political and ideological; that these were the arenas in which it is still allowable to insult, judge and belittle; to dehumanize.

So… as wishy-washy as this might sound, that’s become a metric for me in conversation and cultural engagement; if my ideas or political conclusions or religious convictions lead or allow me to think lesser of people, I’m in the wrong. Period.

A few years ago, I talked in-depth with a dear friend of mine with whom I have some very fundamental disagreements, namely about religious matters. We were if I’m honest, really proud of our friendship that, in light of some vehement disagreements, we maintained a friendship. That, in fact, we didn’t avoid our differences so much as they actually enriched our connection.

At one point, he said, “I think you’re wrong about God and I want to convince you of that because I think you’d be happier and better off without some of what you think.” We went on in that conversation to land on a metaphor of sorts we really liked; that if I’m aware of a fire in the building that threatens the well-being of others in the building, it is not my rightness about fire being hot or my knowledge of how quickly certain materials combust at specific temperatures that will get you moving to the door. It’s that, when I tell you that there is something in your environment that might hurt you, you’d trust and believe me because you know I want you safe and well.

I can be right all day long about very important things; things you might be desperately wrong about. But if I do not love you, my ideas are powerless. The value of an idea is the benefit it affords human life. So, I’m not here to say “everyone should be nice.” What I am saying is that no idea is more important than the people who hold it… or the people who don’t agree.

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https://karenswallowprior.com

Karen Swallow Prior

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy, Karen Swallow Prior) — Thu, 25 Mar 2021 16:00:00 +0000

I don’t know when the words “liberal” or “conservative” became insults. What I do know is that I can’t remember a time when they weren’t. So, maybe it’s always been this way to some degree. I’m not sure.

My guest on this episode of the podcast is a voice who shows up on what many might call the “conservative side” of conversations, online and off. I’ve watched her navigate the nuances of those engagements without slipping into the snark and dismissiveness that has become a hallmark of political argument.

I’ve also marveled at her capacity to both belong to and deeply critique her own culture.

A Ph.D., she is a Research Professor of English and Christianity and Culture at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. She is an author and contributor to a library of books including a very interesting book entitled “Cultural Engagement: A Crash Course In Contemporary Issues.”

This is my conversation with Karen Swallow Prior.
Check it out.

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https://twitter.com/KSPrior

Links for Justin :

Pre-Order the new book - It Is What You Make It

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Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
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NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Fear and Booze & Beer and Taboos

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 18 Mar 2021 11:00:00 +0000

When Donald Miller’s book “Blue Like Jazz” was initially making its rounds through religious circles, one of the hot topics of conversation had to do with cultural taboos.

Namely, that there was a pastor in the book who cussed and that drinking alcohol was somewhat normalized. As someone who grew up around people who both cussed and drank, I wasn’t scandalized at all. But a lot of folks seemed to be and a lot of that scandalization seemed a tad fearful.

But not all of it. There was also a measure of care; a desire to protect people from things that might, for one reason or another, hurt them or cost them.

There’s no question that, in the case of alcohol, there are reasons for caution. Communicating that caution without being condemning or overly-judgmental can be a bit tricky.

Which is why I really prefer hearing care-takers approach issues like booze or cussing or tattoos or sex say something more like “I’m not comfortable with this and, having thought a lot about it, here are my reasons.”

That rather than simply saying “it’s gross and wrong. period.”

First, because there are some things that are, flat out, just plain wrong and the toxicity and seriousness of those things are lessened when treated with a similar weight as something like foul language or horror films.

But also because it’s better leadership. Saying “This is the way I am going because, based on the information I have, it is a good way for me and I wonder if it might be better for you” is a thing I can respect and follow, particularly as it’s handed to me as a way to care; it’s also what is really meant oftentimes. But saying “I’ve discovered or seen a cosmic and unmovable truth that you don’t see about this very particular (and even small) thing. You should get on board.” is harder to swallow and is dripping with fear; fear of the thing itself and (worse), fear that I’ll choose poorly and unwisely given the chance.

Fear makes bad religion and unhealthy relationship

Fear also corrupts and undoes good religion and healthy relationship
Fear is also what makes a thing “taboo”
Fear isn’t a bad thing at all; it just shouldn’t lead. Similarly, in the theme of this podcast, fear can be helpful in navigating turbulent waters but it’s a mistake to allow fear to fundamentally define the waters as “dangerous.” Sometimes, there really are things in the waters that should be avoided, culturally and relationally. But sometimes (perhaps most often), it’s not that the waters are intrinsically problematic, it’s that I’m not a strong enough captain to do that navigation.

That can be harder to say

But it’s more humanly true

And it’s more caring.

I would like fear to play its part in my life, keeping from things in the waters around me that can legitimately harm me. But only in the context of a more courageous and loving navigation of those waters. If you’re a regular listener, I’m assuming you want that same thing.

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http://www.hardinghousebrew.com/

Harding House Brewery

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 12:00:00 +0000

The very first beer I ever had was, I believe, a Bud Dry. That’s probably not true for a lot of folks, but it’s part of my story and I like it as someone who tests as a 4 on the enneagram.

At the time, beer pretty much only showed up at parties or in TV commercials and was never any talk about “hops” or or “malt” between beer drinkers. Which is to say, the culture around beer was thin.

That’s not the case anymore.

The most recent beer I had was last night at a neighbor-friend’s birthday party where we tasted 8 different beers from local breweries and talked about the differences in composition and flavor and complexity; the way people talk about wine or paintings or songs.

Beer culture is a vital social space that, as a culture, provides a doorway into relationship and conversation even broader than wine or fine art does; probably more like music.

Which is the thing I like most about the team at Harding House brewery in Nashville, TN. And why it means so much that, among the many excellent beers they’ve brewed and released are two beers named after words I’ve written. It’s been a legitimate career highlight to be included in their work that way.

I got to sit down with them in Nashville a few weeks ago. It was a delightful conversation.

Check it out.

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Deconstruction and Fundamentalism

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 4 Mar 2021 08:00:00 +0000

I just got off the phone with a long-time friend who is now a coaching client.

It's the call I needed in order to finish this script.

This beloved friend began the conversation with the nearly universal phrase: "I feel like I'm always in the middle."

And I get that.

Even though I disagree a bit.

I don't think he's in the "middle," per se; I think he's trapped in a relationship with people who hold somewhat opposing perspectives (political, social, theological) and hold those perspectives more tightly and more dearly than they do the people around them.

In other words, he is in a relationship with fundamentalists who hold differing opinions; People who are so sure that what they think is correct and who are so sure that the things they think are important that they are willing to sacrifice relationship in order to hold onto their perspectives and ideas.

That's the actual trauma and tragedy of Fundamentalism; it strips people of their humanity and rends us from those we would otherwise love. I'm not allowed to be on a journey or in a process. I MUST come to conclusions and have some form of certainty. Namely about things the machinery I've aligned myself with has deemed most important.

in 2008, I released a collection of songs entitled "Deconstruction."

The title was actually a remnant from my collegiate studies in philosophy, where I spent a bit of time around the work and words of Jaques Derrida.

At the time, "post-modernism" was the buzz phrase, particularly as some of its core tenants threatened the seemingly secure hold Modernity had on daily life.

Most western, white-male-dominated cultures stood firmly on the assumption that some things were "True" and, in their being True and immovable.

That assurance meant that the building of institutions and rules of life were safer and would be long-lasting.

What Derrida offered, though, was the suggestion that the language used to communicate and understand those assurances was fraught with contradiction and complexity; that language did not reliably point in the direction of a controlling and anchoring "Truth."

Instead, words are bound together by the tension and connection found between themselves. There was (and is) no central reference point from which each individual word derives its meaning. More simply, if a word has "meaning," it has that meaning in relationship to the words around it. And that's the constant; language and the connection between words.

Some critics read Derrida as one more expression of "relative truth," but Derrida was up to something fundamentally different; he was suggesting that the "constant" was relationship itself. The relationship between words and between the people who used them.

For example: In a religious context, that Truth might be expressed in a phrase like "God is love. "For Derrida, the wild differences between what I mean by "God "and what you meant suggests a lack of common experience; there is no "thing" to be called "God." what there is, though, is the connection between you and me. And, in that case, meaning wasn't to be discovered in a common experience of whatever the word "God" meant; it was forged and fostered in the connection and tension in the relationship between you and I.

He called this "Deconstruction."

DERRIDADIAN DECONSTRUCTION:

The inherent desire to have a center around which meaning revolves or in which meaning is rooted.
The reduction of meaning to a set of definitions committed to writing (nothing beyond the text)
How that reduction of meaning to language captures opposition within the concept itself

At the heart of his initial work was (and is) a frustration about the inherent desire in human hearts to place "meaning" at the center of existence. That just because we are alive, our lives must have meaning. He found this problematic and sought to undo it.

Derrida saw it problematic that philosophy was driven by the need to find a centering, grounding meaning at all. He bristled at the certainty with which philosophers sought to find meaning somewhere; believing their certainty in any kind of absolute blinded them.

My religious training counters that idea by suggesting that the desire in human hearts to live in and with meaning is a hunger similar to the hunger for food, a thing to actually schedule one's days around rather than learn to ignore, for really any reason. The details, of course, are negotiable, to say the least; but that nudge at the core of one's soul that says "there's more. not just out there, but in you" is real; it's part of what it means to be human.

And this is why I find myself struggling with the use of the word "deconstruction" as a description for so much socio-religious conversation recently. The way I hear it, I think we're mostly talking about reorganization and maturity and growing and discernment, all of which is not just fine; it's good. It's true. It's beautiful. And I guess I wish we would let good things be good, sometimes.

Most of the institutional conversations i'm around feature a critique of systems that poorly reflect a central truth or Reality that deserves a better treatment and culture.

For many, churches are problematic, not because they're organized around a reality that is non-existent, but because their corporeal practices distract from the beauty and goodness of that Reality.

Yes, please?

I like that a lot.

But that's not deconstruction.

It's something ( i would suggest) richer and harder and more communal and more fluid and more human; it's the work part of belonging to people. It is the practice of Beloved Community.

I have long believed that one of the most corrosive aspects of Fundamentalism is that it convinces us that ideas and definitions are more vital and important than the people who hold them.

In that light, Fundamentalism convinces us that change is a necessarily deconstructive process; things are either true or false, black or white, real or not, in or out, Biblical or sinful, sacred or secular - alive to the Glory of and service of God or fit to be torn down and trampled... there is no movement or growth or progress or even redemption; I've either got it right, or I've got to go.

The glaring feature in that fundamentalist mindset is fear, mostly fear that the center won't hold if it's moved or challenged or not protected.

And.. here's where I'd like to land this plane: I don't think that's what we have on hand, collectively and culturally. I don't think despair at the absence of existential meaning is winning the day. I think that nudge.. got a lot stronger.. for a lot more people. And a lot more people want to move whatever it is in the way of getting more of that nudge.

I think we're seeing a scandalously broad awakening ... that this nudge and the fact that I sense it matters MORE than the words some paid professional uses to describe it, control it and commodify it.

What I'm seeing is the fervent and sometimes angry tearing away at whatever artifice is deemed in the way of a clear vision of what's most real.

I'm hearing conviction and frustration that there is, in fact, a center (though it might not be static) and that there are fundamental truths (though they may be interpersonal in nature) but that all this gatekeeping garbage culture is keeping people we love and like and want and need from the goodness of it.

I don't mind the word "deconstruction" but historically, deconstruction is a very specific and often highly individualized process by which one unearths the very core and center of their being and decides that if there is meaning in their world or in their life, it must be constructed and held together by the sheer force of the own, individual will.

So, if that's you, I get it, and that's real and can be terrifying and also really good.

But if it's not, then consider that you might not be deconstructing. You might be feeling an invitation to a legitimate "awakening" to be shared by all kinds of people, with whom you agree and disagree; an awakening angled towards (and maybe even prompted by) a goodness, Truth, and beauty worth tearing things down for... as well as worth building around.

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Laura Joyce Davis

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 25 Feb 2021 12:00:00 +0000

The ethos and heart of my next book is that just about nothing "is what it is." Instead, as the title of the book would have it, It Is What You Make Of It.

I realize that shifting from "it is what it is" to "it is what you make of it" is a long process and can be a bit daunting. More so when the "is" we have to work with, our circumstances and opportunities is really sideways.

When things go wrong or the unexpected takes over, it can feel like the most natural thing to do is to navigate to, grab hold of, and cling to something "solid" or "sure."

What if, on the other hand, and on occasion, I read a lack of "solid ground" or the absence of a "sure thing" as an invitation into adventure?

That's what I find inspiring and formative in Laura Joyce Davis. That, while I don't blame a soul for looking to "sure things" and more "solid ground" during the COVID era, she and her family took it as an opportunity to dive headlong into the unknown and see what they could make of the pieces they found there.

She is a writer and the host of the "Shelter In Place" podcast. She is also my guest on this episode of the @ Sea Podcast.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Pain & Strength

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:00:00 +0000

I think it was 6 or so years ago, I was in a session with a therapist who practiced cranial - sacral therapy.

Which, in short, attends to the alignment of the body between the cranium (my noggin) and the sacrum (which is pretty much my tailbone). It’s a series of long tensions and pulls rather than muscle squeezing and all that.

About 15 min into the session, she asked me, “It feels like you have some injuries on your left side.”

“Yeah, probably.”

She paused and then pulled me over onto my back and said, “tell me.”

I’d never been asked before to recount my history of injuries. Regardless, I could recall all of them.

broken ankle

multiple sprained ankles (6-7)

hairline fracture of my tibia

ACL tear

some other mind of knee blowout

dislocated hip

3 broken ribs (2 occasions)

Broken collarbone (2x)

Broken shoulder

Broken wrist (2x)

Hairline skull fracture (2x)

All of it on the left side of my body.

“That’s a lot of trauma.”

My brain immediately reacted with something like, “What?! I don’t have ‘trauma.’ I just got hurt a few times.”

She took my wrists and folded my arms across my chest. Then, pressing down hard into my shoulders, “Let’s see what we can do. Close your eyes and take a deep breath.”

After 30 more min, I stood up and felt ... new?

It was really, really strange.

I had to readjust to what felt like...

Strength.

But it was quite literally unlike any strength I’d felt in myself previously.

I’d been used to the kind of strength normally prescribed by calls and challenges to “stay strong” or “be strong.”

The kind of strength that’s was, in and of itself, an effort to maintain.

This strength was just … there, holding my body together at my center.

Literally, the only thing that had changed (the only thing that had happened) was that someone had felt the trauma(s) in me, kindly helped me acknowledge them as real, and then actively engaged with the places in me where I was still carrying, by injury, those pieces of my history.

I think this is what is often meant by “entering into” someone’s pain.

And the fruit of that work, that entering in was strength.

—

Lent begins today. It is a season characterized by the practice of fasting; the choice to deny myself of some joy or pleasure (or even some need); in short, a season marked by the decision to suffer. And, along with the opportunity to practice that personal disciplines in order to clarify my own life and connection with The Divine, Lent is also an invitation to reach out to (or reach into) a world actually bound together by the shared experience of pain and say something along the lines of

“that’s a lot of trauma.”

And then, if we are welcomed, enter in.

And not to simply “fix” what’s wrong in one another (though that is a shared dream, too) but enter in because there is a kind of magic in the meeting of tired and wounded human lives;

A hope for healing and resurrection and actually new life.

And I don’t know exactly how it works.

I just know it does

That friendships are deeper after adventure, and communities are richer after trial.

That there is a power and a peace available to human hearts and human lives that is accessible only through the doorway of pain and suffering BUT/AND it is a doorway that cannot be passed through alone.

Sometimes it takes therapy.

Sometimes it takes a podcast guest like Jennifer Ko

sometimes it’s friends or family

or a child sponsorship program

or AA meetings

Almost always, it takes someone saying, “I see this in you, and I would like to help carry it. I would consider it an honor.”

And someone else saying, “Yes, please do. I trust you. Come closer.”

And almost always,

in time

what we find between us and in us

is not the diminished effort and energy

of persons carrying more than they should

(because we are carrying someone else’s burdens)

we find a strength we didn’t know before

and would rather not live without.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Jennifer Ko

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Jennifer Ko, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Often enough, the topic of pain gets tied up into the same kind of conversations had about “evil.” Spoken of as a “problem” or a thing to be avoided. A thing that diminishes the human experience and limits relationships.

Oddly, pain, including physical pain, is perhaps the most common human experience.
in the eternally wise words of REM’s Michael Stipe: “everybody hurts”

And there might not be anything quite as soul-binding as suffering together.

Which is what makes the work Jennifer Ko does so beautiful, so good and so humanly true.

Chronic pain and physical limitation take center stage in Jennifer’s story and her work. And rather than speaking in terms of “problems” and “ways to avoid,” Jennifer shares the reality of her pain as an experience and expression of her full humanity.

I am regularly informed and inspired by who she is and how she shares herself.

This is my conversation with Jennifer Ko.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred vs “Ordinary”

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 5 Feb 2021 16:56:36 +0000

I didn’t know a lot about the actual life of Jesus before I was in my mid-twenties. Honestly, even after I started calling myself a Christian (which is far more interesting conversation now than it was then),

What actually led me to do the work of discovery and research wasn’t a sermon series; it was seeing a series of books or short documentaries on what people were calling the “Lost Years” of Jesus’ life.

As the 4 biblical accounts of Jesus’ life have it, we can read about his birth, which is mostly about his mother’s faith and the political environment he’s born into, and then we actually get nothing until he’s right about 12 when he wanders off from his parents and ends up in a conversation with religious elders. THEN, there’s nothing until he’s about 30.

In fact, all there is to read of the actual life of Jesus is roughly 3 years.

So, I started noticing these books in which a whole slew of folks basically gave in to imaginative conjecture about what Jesus was doing as a young adult into his mid-twenties.

In most of these stories, he’d gone on some kind of religious pilgrimage. Some folks suggested he’d studied with the Hindus and some with the Buddhists and others with other groups or tribes. Part of it felt like folks trying to make Jesus “one of theirs” instead of being challenged by him on his own terms, much the way Nationalists have done so destructively here in the US. And that was weird to see, even if it was a bit obvious.

But, there was a whole other element to the “Lost Years of Jesus” narrative that gnawed at me namelessly for a while. I couldn’t figure out what bugged me until much later, after years of feeling a kind of distance between the life I was living and any kind of deep, cosmic significance; even though I was chasing that significance with every bit of my person I could muster.

Why was it necessary that, in order to be a wise, spiritually insightful person, Jesus had to leave home and go be hyper-religious somewhere? What was this fascination with “exotic” religious experience? More to the point, what was missing on the ground beneath Jesus’ feet that would have required him to leave the people nearest him, the world with which he was most familiar (and was most familiar with him) and look elsewhere? Because if there wasn’t sufficient … if the neighborhood Jesus was in didn’t have any kind of sacred resonance… what did that say about mine?

In other words, these stories reinforced the same garbage sales pitch every other bad religious marketing scheme was rooted in; you’re not enough, your life is not significant as it is.

The warm glow of Divine connection exists somewhere on the other side of all this mundane, nearly worthless stuff you’re doing like school and dating and working looking for new work and paying rent and talking through troubles in your key friendships enjoying jokes and wiping your kids' butts and fixing leaky faucets and on and on… God is real but God does not happily live where you live and certainly not in you and your boring, boring life.

Here’s what I’ve come to: a religious narrative that doesn’t set the world around you and within you aglow with meaning and energy and hope and potential is absolute trash and is entirely undeserving of your time and attention. If you leave your religious gathering and your home seems darker because it doesn’t’ feel as good as the show the team of well-funded professionals put on, you aren’t being decoupled; you’re being swindled.

Because, if the incarnation story of Jesus says anything clearly, (and I think it does) it announces, in no uncertain terms that God was pleased to live as a human being and to do so in such a way that for early 30 years, that life looked so much like yours and mine that we didn’t even notice it. It says that it’s not just “okay” to be human and have a job and a neighborhood and a family and friends and to sleep and snack and make love and fight and forget and remember and work and rest and learn… it’s sacred. It says you don’t have to LOOK for significance, you are significant. It says you don’t have to go on a pilgrimage to find holy ground, you’re standing on it now, and that the point of the pilgrimage is to come home and see the place you live more completely.

Part of what I think you hear in my conversation with Kayla Craig is the way her integrated life gleans energy and insight from its various dimensions. Parenting and neighboring and writing and on and on… not disparate elements to be handled one at a time, lest they detract from or lessen or even corrupt one another, but a living network of relationships beautifully tangled up in Kayla’s own joy and desire.

Some of my guests are people who are doing remarkable work I want you to know about. Some of my guests are doing that remarkable work in a way that I find deeply challenging and informative. I’d like to do both. I think you might want to as well.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Sacred Ordinary Days Podcast

Kayla Craig

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Kayla Craig, Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 12:00:00 +0000

If you've been around me for any significant time, you'll likely know that my mother is a hero of mine. not in a cute "I love my mom, you guys" kind of way but more like "I hope I can be the kind of resilient and faithful and strong as that person" kind of way.

From her very difficult childhood, marked by various in-house abuses and financial destitution to her adventures west to CA from Albuquerque, NM to the ways she held our family together while my father was falling apart and, more recently the relentless ways she cares for me and my kids, I marvel at her parenthood.

Which leads me to this:

The significance of parenthood seems to often allude faithful and respectful conversation. Either idolized in a kind of glass box and set aside untouched by critique or minimized in a smaller cardboard box and cast aside so that it doesn’t touch other vital things.

Parenthood often gets treated as the alter on which all other aspects of life must be sacrificed or the pit of despair that must be avoided so that other aspects of life can be enjoyed and pursued.

Either way, the battle lines are drawn:
Career vs parenthood

Adventure vs parenthood

Romance vs parenthood

Ministry vs parenthood

Art-making vs parenthood

And on and on.
There seems very little middle ground

And then there’s Kayla Craig, whose practice of integrating her parenthood and her career and adventure and romance and ministry and art is something like a marvel and (more important) something like a beacon and a call forward.

She is, like I am, a parent. She is also working on a book of prayers for parents while co-hosting the Upside Down Podcast (on which I’ve been a guest) and producing another the Sacred Ordinary Days

And what I love about her posture in doing all of that is that she doesn’t think it makes her special. It makes her normal. Well, I like her kind of normal. I think you will, too.

This is my conversation with Kayla Craig.

Check it out.

Links for Kayla Craig

KaylaCraig.com

Upside Down Podcast

Liturgies For Parents

Links for Justin :

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Labels vs Relationships

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Dan Portnoy) — Thu, 21 Jan 2021 12:00:00 +0000

Most of the guests I host on the podcast share some kind of faith in common. For many of them, that faith carries the label of "Christianity." for others, that label doesn't fit quite as well or as comfortably.

My last guest, Jon Steingard, is one such guest for whom religious labels are somewhat unhelpful, at least at this moment in his life and career.

But, then again, maybe it's not about this moment or season for Jon, or for people like Jon, and maybe there are a whole lot more people "like Jon;" folks who feel placeless and are somewhat comfortable with that. . Maybe the fact that religious labels are so unhelpful and inaccurate with Jon "right now" actually says something about the ineffectiveness and extreme limitation of those labels.

In 2008, I released an album called "Deconstruction" after doing a fair about of my own deconstructive work, theologically and philosophically, and socially.

One of the questions I started getting from folks was some form of "okay, where are you now?"

Where are you on this topic?

Or this theme?

Or this point?

Or this idea?

And it rarely felt like a real conversation when that happened. More often, It felt more like a test, a way for the person asking the question to determine how comfortable they were in relationship to me.

I was asked to give (or, conversely, not give) to keep peace in the relationship. And relationships held together on the strength of either party passing tests of any kind, much less social and philosophical tests, well, those aren't healthy relationships. FAR less interesting, less helpful, and, in the end, far less human.

I never get over the fact that, at the centerpiece of the Christian narrative, God becomes human.

Which is to say:

A person with political ideologies,

and social leanings,

and particular tastes,

and complex, nuanced cultural affiliations - all of which require sincere, open, and courageous engagement and conversation.

So those things can be "deal with," but so that, in learning to know Jesus as a whole person, those who chose to do the work of relationship might learn (and relearn ) to know and be known by God.

I recently re-posted a short reflection that reads.

"The moment I refuse to recognize God in places and people that are unlike me is the moment I stop recognizing God."

The question "Where are you?" or "where are you on this?" is just far too limited and far too limiting; it's also almost unavoidably judgmental in a way I don't want to be; it's almost always a conversation stopper and a relational hurdle.

I'm more interested in questions like

"How did you come to that?"

"Where does that come from?"

"why do you think so?"

All of them feel far more like ways to know a person and far less like stopping someone in the hallway and asking to see their pass.

In me, those questions are also ways I get to ask myself a more central question; the one that actually drives the whole of my work and life: "where is God?"

When I ask, "how did you come to that?"

"Where does that come from?"

"why do you think so?"

I'm listening for how that person's soul is searching for goodness and truth and beauty; I want to understand and appreciate how that person's soul attaches to and creates meaning and connection.

I'm looking for the fingerprints of Divinity.

I'm choosing and hoping to recognize God in places and people that aren't like me.

When I predicate my relationships (as well as the questions and conversations those relationships can facilitate) on my ability to place you somewhere on a map of social/theological conclusions, I cut off the actual relationship.

And I have come to believe that it is ONLY in actual relationship that I learn to see myself, see others and (yes) see God.

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

Levi The Poet

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts, Levi The Poet) — Thu, 8 Oct 2020 15:27:58 +0000

Links for Levi The Poet:

http://levithepoet.net

Twitter

Instagram

Facebook

Links for Justin :

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Latifah Alattas

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Dan Portnoy, Justin Mcroberts, Latiphah Phillips) — Tue, 1 Sep 2020 20:48:08 +0000

Links for Latifah:

http://www.modaspira.com

Links for Justin :

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Shaun Groves

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 17 Jul 2020 12:00:03 +0000

Links for Shaun:

Links for Justin :

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

The Center For Bioethics and Culture Network

Jennifer Lahl

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 05:10:49 +0000

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #42: Colby Martin

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 20 May 2020 02:05:03 +0000

One of the most persistent criticisms of religious progressivism is that it is reactive, pushing back on (and sometimes warring against) older, institutional practices deemed out of date, unhelpful, and even unjust. And while there is some good to such a posture, it doesn’t constitute a full enough profile of leadership.

@ Sea Podcast #37: Kirsten Powers

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 17 Sep 2019 22:56:57 +0000

The power of those who identify, translate and communicate current events is truly massive; sometimes frighteningly so.

In 1978, Science fiction writer Philip K. Dick warned against the power of what he called “the media,” writing…

“I distrust their power. They have a lot of it. And it is an astonishing power: that of creating whole universes, universes of the mind.”

@ Sea Podcast #34: Dr. Christena Cleveland

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 20 May 2019 23:07:35 +0000

I first met Christena Cleveland across the street from a conference where, later that day, she would speak on issues of race and the long road towards unity among Christians. Her presentation was 3 minutes long.

What I left that conference with was’t just what I heard Dr. Cleveland present in her few minutes.. but I left eyes somewhat newly opened to a system/culture that was comfortable nodding towards that which was non-white or non-male, but far less interested in fully investing. I also left with an awareness of my complicity.

Since then, I’ve paid attention to Dr. Clevelands work as an author, blogger speaker and culture creator. I’ve looked forward to this interview for quite a while..

Which brings me to this somewhat unfortunate and somewhat comical production note:

My 2 year old has developed an interest in all my electronics and had her way with the input controls just a few moments before I go Dr. Cleveland on the line. You’ll year my voice peak off and on throughout the conversation.

That said.. Dr. Clevelands voice is clear as day and full of wisdom for this moment.

Check it out.

Music for this episode is by Podington Bear.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #33: Andrew Osenga

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 20:15:27 +0000

That songwriting is an art is widely understood. What can be messy or confusing is what becomes of any art, and particularly songwriting, when it becomes a job, a business or an industry. And then, what becomes of the people who identified as professional artists when the season changes and the industry evolves?

Part of what makes Andrew Osenga a standout artist, aside from his clear capability as a songwriter, is the posture he lives in towards the making of music, the people who make music and the business of making music a job.

He is an artist, through and through.

I enjoyed my conversation with him and expect you will as well. Check it out:

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #32: Aaron Niequist (full interview)

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:32:18 +0000

For a season, Aaron Niequist worked at a church called Willow Creek in the Chicago area; a church that functioned as a kind of flagship for mainline christian Chruch practice. He also served at Mars Hill in Grant Rapids Michigan, a church whose culture was often seen as a next step away from (if not a remedy for) the culture and practice of churches like Willow Creek.

In my conversation with Aaron, I found someone who is sincerely and profoundly concerned with the actual formation of actual people. His concern as well as his expertise stem form having been in the mix and invested in these various expressions of faith through multiple seasons of change,

Aaron is a husband, dad, a liturgist and a writer. His recent book “The Eternal Current” is the focus of our conversation and a helpful look at the practices that hold form and hold together a life and a culture.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast 31: Jen Hatmaker

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 6 Mar 2019 23:44:49 +0000

Welcome to Season 4! And what a way to kick it off!

In the fall of 2018, I got to spend a few weeks on the road with Jen Hatmaker and Nichole Nordeman on their Moxie Matters tour. For 15 nights, I got to play songs and then watch rooms full of women (and a few men), find a kind of home in the space Jen and Nichole provided as artist/storytellers.

Between stops in Texas, I sat down with Jen Hatmaker to talk about the origin of the tour and where she saw her work heading in the long run. Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast Season 3 Recap/Review

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:02:33 +0000

Take a brief tour through some of the key moments in conversations that defined Season 3 of the podcast.

My guests:

– Dominique Dubois Gillard – Sandra McCracken – Carlos Whittaker – Jeremy Cowart – Michael Mcbride – Matt Shotwell – Scott Erickson – Jonathan Merritt – Matt Mikalatos (a reflection on the death of John Chau) – Jer Swigart (a look at the “border crisis”)

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast 30: Jer Swigart on the “Migrant Caravan”

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 4 Dec 2018 12:01:31 +0000

On March 25, 2018, women, men and children from Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador began walking north toward the US border. As weeks passed, their numbers grew… and their story began to move toward the stoplight of major American News sources.

Of course, the tint of that spotlight varied in shade depending on its source. For instance, the sitting administration warned of the potential threat this group of people posed should they reach San Diego; even suggesting at one point that there might be “unknown middle easterners” among the group… making it a kind of Trojan horse for a more recognizable international terror threat.

On Sunday afternoon, Nov 25, what be are known as the “Migrant Caravan” finally began to the reach, and cross the southern border of the US, just north of Tijuana, Mexico. And as they reached the doorstep of America, the various and often opposing narratives surrounding them rose to a kind of peak volume.

And, as is so often the case, .. somewhat quietly, under the buzz, dust and noise… thoughtful and caring women and men went about the business of meeting this moment and the real people in it, eye-to-eye.

One of those people is my guest, Jer Swigart. His work with the Global Immersion Project approaches and addresses many of the same questions the Migrant Caravan story has raised among those paying attention:

What do we do with the tension between law and human good.

– What does it mean to be a neighbor?

– Who is my neighbor? and – How I live up to the word once I am convicted by its meaning?

Check it out…

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Special Episode: Reflecting On The Death of John Chau with Matt Mikalatos

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 15:12:15 +0000

Earlier this month, John Allen Chau was killed by members of one of the most isolated peoples on earth. According to his own journal, Chau was committed to sharing what he knew of Jesus with the Sentinelese people… and even after being forcefully deterred several times prior, returned the island of North Sentinel on Nov 14, in some form of faith and hope that he would be received, along with his message.

He wasn’t.

This part of Chau’s story touches on and highlights themes that have moved their way close to the center several conversations on this podcast.

Culture care
What good religion looks like vs bad.

And most pertinent to this moment…

White supremacy, and particularly white supremacy as it relates to American Evangelicalism.

It was because so many of these things seemed to collide in this story that I moved the podcast calendar around a bit to make room for this episode.

My guest is Matt Mikalatos. Along with being a clever, thoughtful and oftentimes poignant author, he’s a fantastic guide in conversation online and off (find him on Facebook, specifically). He has also worked for years in an organization that trains and sends out missionaries not online John Chau.

I think you’ll find Matt helpful, challenging, confounding and stirring. I plan to and promise to have him back as a guest to talk about his own work.

But for now, listen in on our conversation about a moment I think highlights a good number of the issues and realties facing American religious and spiritual practice.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #29: Jonathan Merritt

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 8 Nov 2018 04:00:39 +0000

In her landmark book “Caring For Words in a Culture of Lies” Marylin McEntyre writes…

“If language is to retain its power to nourish and sustain our common life, we have to care for it in something like the way good farmers care for the life of the soil, knowing nothing worth eating can be grown in soil that has been used up, fertilized or exposed too many toxic chemicals.”

—
There may not be a cultural sphere in greater need of that kind of word-care than that of American Christianity. My guest is author, journalist and cultural critic Jonathan Merritt.

His most recent book is entitled “Learning to Speak God From Scratch” and is, in my reading of it, a courageous and wise effort to care for the words that shape contemporary religious life.

In my conversation with him, we dig into his recent book, its history and a few other pieces of the soil beneath out feet.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #28: Scott Erickson (Part 2)

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 18 Oct 2018 23:31:30 +0000

This is part two of my interview with visual artist and storyteller Scott Erickson. If you haven’t had the chance to check out part one, it’s not necessary to hear it first .. but… it might be helpful.. and it’s a great conversation.

The second half of our conversation turns more specifically to the role of art in personal life and well as communal and religious life. We also dig a bit into the difficult of spoken language vs the freedom of visual expression and look, as best as we can into the future.

Check it out…

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #27: Scott Erickson

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 26 Sep 2018 15:52:36 +0000

My guest on this episode is long-time friend and co-creator Scott Erickson. He and I created and released the book “Prayer: 40 Days of Practice” a few years ago and his partnership has been not only enjoyable but enriching and transformative.

Scott’s work as a visual artist and storyteller comes from and carves out what I consider a vital and sincerely unique place in American Religious culture. Unique to such a degree that I’ve divided this interview into two parts, of which this is part one… I intend to give you the opportunity to be challenged, inspired and moved by an artist whose work I consider right for this shared moment in our history.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #26: Matt Shotwell

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:45:00 +0000

Jan 1 2018 was a landmark day for marijuana legalization in CA. For many, the moment was another stumbling misstep towards even more compromised societal norms. For others, including my guest, it was a hard-fought-for moment emblematic of a culture coming to its senses and embracing a kind of inevitable tide.

Either way, It was a divisive moment, charged with the energy that often comes from social, economic and interpersonal difference. It was a moment I decided this podcast needed to enter into.

My guest, Matt Shotwell, has been in the weed business for over a decade and was featured on Discovery Channel’s reality show “Weed Country.” He’s also a son to his parents, brother to his siblings, an adoptive parent to a piranha named Brittany, a person of faith and a long-time friend of mine.

So, I’m inviting you into a conversation about a real-life cultural shift. I’m inviting you into a conversation with someone whose world you may not be at all familiar with or comfortable. I’m also inviting you into a conversation between friends.

As I’ve said in the lead-in to other podcast episodes, I’ll issue fair warning to listeners for whom traditionally foul language is a problem. You’ll find a bit of it during this conversation. I’ll also add to that warning an equally fair challenge: that if I’m sincerely interested in someone else story, I don’t get to decide how they tell it.

Check it out…

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #25: Michael McBride Returns

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 18 Jul 2018 05:00:29 +0000

“The days are coming,” declares the Sovereign Lord,
“when I will send a famine through the land—
not a famine of food or a thirst for water,
but a famine of hearing the words of the Lord.
– Amos 8:11

You may have noticed a bit of a lag between episodes of this podcast. If you’ll allow… that lag as been rather intentional. I’ve not known what to say, what to this shared cultural moment of ours… I didn’t honestly know if it was even my place to say or add anything.

I don’t want to just be making noises.
Even if they’re pleasant noises.

So, I spent some time doing the thing I’m learning is the key to not only a good/great podcast, but a well -lived life: I listened.

My guest on this episode is Michael McBride. And just as he did in Season 1 of the @ Sea podcast. He offers an invitation, a challenge and a wisdom that not only clarifies my place in the world around me, but also the path before me, through that world, as a culture maker.

I hope and expect this conversation may do the same for you.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #24: Jeremy Cowart

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 21 Apr 2018 05:00:59 +0000

You may have heard the rumor or legend or sorts that certain cultures throughout history have been at least suspicious or cautious about photography in fear that something of the soul was captured in the process. The other side of that coin is that, to many purveyors of the arts, a great portrait actually has to do just that.

I came across Jeremy Cowart’s work in the weeks and months after a horrific earthquake nearly flattened Port Au Prince, Haiti in January of 2010. With the project, entitled “Voices of Haiti,” Jeremy captured the collision of and tension between ruin and resolve, hope and despair,.. all of which to say, his work captured, set against the backdrop of a devastating natural disaster, a very human picture.

His work since then has continued to range from photo shoots with some of the most recognizable names in entertainment to the development of a hotel that will, when it comes to life, will revolutionize the way we stay somewhere when we’re not home.

Check it out….

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Episode #23: Carlos Whittaker

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 05:00:09 +0000

The question “What do you do?” or “What do you do for a living?” it’s not so much a question about work as it is a way to figure out who someone is; a question of identity. And that relationship between who I am and what I do can be tricky,… even confusing.

Too closely tying my identity to my work can lead towards a dehumanized, utilitarian view of my own humanity… while drawing a thick black line between who I am and what I do can lead to a kind of dysphoria …

Carlos Whittaker has developed apps, written and performed songs, led an online weight loss program, taught courses on the proper use of Instagram as well as having written two books, including his most recent work “Kill The Spider.”

As I think you’ll hear in my conversation with Carlos, his process and evolution has been one in which he relentlessly pursues a sense of his place in the world at the cost of safe career steps and even, at times, at the cost of safe religious conclusions. All the while, he invites his readers and listeners to join him along the way.

Check it out…

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #22: Sandra McCracken

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 11 Mar 2018 05:00:42 +0000

The ways we move into and out of one another’s lives… the modality of relationship, is a matter of art. In fact, I resonate with Seth Godin’s definition of art as anything that facilitates human connection… including, in my own iteration of the definition, a relationship with one’s self.

For nearly two decades Sandra McCracken has been making music that not only facilitates human connection, but has done so with a particularly thoughtful attentiveness. In our conversation, we consider whether or not it is that connection that makes art sacred… rather than a particular setting or use.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #21: Dominique DuBois Gilliard

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 9 Feb 2018 18:57:18 +0000

Welcome to episode 1 of season 3 of the @ Sea Podcast.

My guest is Dominique DuBois Gilliard. Dominique is the director of racial righteousness and reconciliation for the Love Mercy Do Justice Initiative of Evangelical Covenant Church. He is also the author of Rethinking Incarceration, which is the focus of my conversation with him.

We pick up as I’m finishing setup (full disclosure: we were both late to the interview site and I had to start before I was completely ready.

Regardless, from the outset and throughout this unedited conversation, we cover some vital and rarely trod ground in the areas of race, justice and a redemptive view of both political and religious power.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #20: Julie Bindel

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 24 Sep 2017 12:59:04 +0000

in 1981, in Yorkshire, England, Peter William Sutcliffe was convicted of the murder of 13 women over a span of about 5 years.

Police were criticized for there slowness of the investigation, the pace of which which appeared to pick up only after one of Suttcliffe’s victims turn out *not* to be a prostitute.

Among those leveling criticism was Julie Bindel, who is my guest on this episode of the podcast. A teenager at the time, Julie took part in a series of protests, including one in which the public suggestion was made my that, instead of women staying off the streets for their own defense, as was suggested by the police, men should stay off the streets in order to ensure the safety of women.

That kind of insightful and poignant expression continues to mark Julie Bindel’s work as a journalist and as a political activist.

She is also the author of two books, “Straight Expectations” and, more recently, “The Pimping of Prostitution: Abolishing the Myth of Sex Work.”

This episode was recorded during a live @ Sea Event hosted in Concord, CA earlier this year. It was part of a series of events, planned in partnership with The Center For Bioethics and Culture. You’ll hear CBC founder Jennifer Lahl describe the work and focus of the CBC during the presentation.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Episode #19: Adam Caress

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 4 Sep 2017 05:24:36 +0000

I’m going go out on a limb and suggest that almost every music listener, even more casual fans, has been privy a conversation revolving around the idea of “selling out.” A conversation focused on what is happening or might happen to a band who is suddenly faced with the seemingly intractable dilemma… of making money. A conversation often highlighted by expressions and declarations of how much we liked their early work and how so and so might dig this band now, but doesn’t really get what they’re actually about.

For an artists on the other side of that conversation, what once were joyful and highly motivating dreams of doing what she loves and paying for her life are now thoughts weighed down by the possibility that many of those who helped her get there might leave… because she’d made it.

Art, like charity or justice work, has an odd public relationship with money. For many onlookers, the moment a creator turns even slightly one way or another towards a paycheck, the whole of their work is thrown into question; a kind of “purity” is threatened, if not lost.

Whether or not a work like music or hunger relief is less valuable or less pure if it is at least partially motivated by the desire to pay for bread is, perhaps, an unanswerable question on the cultural level. But when examined case-by-case, the motives and intentions of culture makers tell fascinating stories… sometimes stories more vital and apocalyptic than the works those makers have applied themselves to.

My guest on this episode is music historian Adam Caress. Having spent the better part of two decades around the music industry (as a performer, writer, booking agent, and so on) Adam now teaches in the music business program at Montreat college in NC. My conversation with him focuses primarily on his book, entitled (and I love this title…) “The Day Alternative Music Died: Dylan, Zeppelin, Punk, Alt, Glam, Majors, Indies and The Struggle Between Art and Money for the Soul of Rock”

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

Podcast Episode #18: Hanif Abduraquib

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Thu, 27 Jul 2017 21:21:55 +0000

Artists and critics have a famously contentious relationship. It can seem, at least, that the discipline of critiquing stands at odds to the discipline of creating it. Yet, I can’t think of really any professional artist who doesn’t hold some very pointed opinions about the work they consume (as well as their own. And I’ve yet to meet a professional critic whose attention to an art form didn’t at least begin in a sincere admiration for… if not love for… that same art form.

My guest on this episode is poet and cultural critic Hanif Abdurraqib. In our brief conversation, I think you’ll find a vision of art, pop culture, industry and creativity in which there aren’t hard lines between diagnosis or analysis and a long, loving gaze and what human hands have made.

Our conversation actually begins with him reflecting on a grammy moment in which Adele used time during her acceptance speech to suggest that Beyonce was perhaps, more deserving of the award.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #17: Dr. Todd Allen

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 30 Jun 2017 22:37:50 +0000

Some of my guests make national news. They win Grammys or national book awards. But this will never be a podcast about what’s most popular or what’s trending, per se. My interest is in connecting you with great culture makers, because I believe what they do deepens and enriches our lives.

My guest on this episode is Civil Rights professor and cultural curator Dr. Todd Allen. Since 2002, Dr. Todd has not only taught in the classroom on the history of the Civil Rights movement, but has led a bus tour to many of the sites vital to that movement. In doing so, he connects dots that might otherwise live in desperate parts of his guests hearts and minds.

I caught up with him briefly in Pittsburgh, PA and I think our short conversation might help us connect some of those same dots. Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #16: Daniel White Hodge

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 12 Jun 2017 21:21:25 +0000

This Friday, June 16, the Tupac Shakur Biopic “All Eyez on Me” hits theaters. The film is named after the rapper’s remarkable 1996 release “All Eyes On Me.” Since his death in September of that same year, conversation around and engagement with Tupac and his work has never really gone away. He’s one of those artists whose impact on his genre and culture is so deep that it still bears noting, two decades after his last contribution.

For many of his listeners, the connection wasn’t just Tupac’s incredible talent, but the unapologetic way he granted the world access to his story; a story in which millions of people recognized a bit of themselves and their own story. The “All Eyes On Me” album reached the very rare sales status known as “Diamond Status,” denoting the sale of over 10 million copies in the United States.

Tupac’s depiction of life within his own home and hometown is regularly recognized as not just important, but in many eyes, prophetic.

My guest on this episode of the podcast is one such person. Daniel White Hodge is an author, a scholar and a Hip Hop Theologian whose dissertation is focused on the life, theology and spiritual message of Tupac Shakur.

I highly recommend checking out the book after listening in on my conversation with Professor Daniel White Hodge.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #15: Michael Wear Returns

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 31 May 2017 20:02:21 +0000

My guest on this episode of the podcast is actually my first 2-time guest, Michael Wear. During season 1, Michael shared his unique angle on not just the idea of politics, but the human practice of politics. As someone who has lived and worked in Washington DC with the women and men who often end up characterized as either heroes or demons, Micheal sees the human interplay and the redemptive arc of American politics.

His book, aptly entitled “Reclaiming Hope,” had not hit shelves last time we talked and I think it possesses a very intriguing corner of the public conversation this side of the 2016 election. For that reason and many more, I figured it was time for something of a check-in with Michael Wear.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast # 14: Mark Labberton

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Wed, 17 May 2017 04:00:32 +0000

My guest on this episode is Mark Labberton. Mark is the author of three deeply insightful books and is most likely better known as the President of Fuller Theological Seminary.

Mark’s work and friendship have often been, for me, a lifeline to hope when it comes to the communal, institutional practice of faith.

When it comes to a particular group of human beings, practicing religious faith together, and the economic, political, vocational, racial soup that often is, there’s nothing I’ve seen that he hasn’t seen, nothing I know that he doesn’t know. And he not only continues to hope for, but joyfully work towards the enrichment, growth and flourishing of The Church in its many forms, including its more traditional manifestations.

This podcast seeks to highlight great culture makers because what they do deepens and enriches our lives. My conversation with Mark Labberton ranges from excavating key words in western religious culture to early musical loves and first purchases to what it looks like to faithfully engage in political conversation.

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #13: Ryan O’Neil (Sleeping At Last)

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 25 Apr 2017 21:02:27 +0000

A few nights ago, I took my newborn daughter, who was crying, into the small office space where I do most of my work, including recording and editing this podcast. I deftly navigated my laptop while holding her in the other arm… and started playing through some of my favorite songs.

We listened to…

Sigur Ros
Jonsi and Alex
Josh Ritter
Kendrick Lamar
and some older stuff from Tribe Called Quest.

I could feel her breathing change with the music. She was captured, are are most people, by this incredible gift we’ve been given. She’’s only 12 days old at the time of this recording and won’t remember this moment… but put my face close to hers and whispered “This is music. It might be the best thing we’ve done as humans.”

There’s something physical, emotional as well as spiritual about the human connection to song. My guest on this episode is Ryan O’Neil whose work bears the name “Sleeping At Last.” Ryan is an artist who is keenly and intentionally aware of that unique connection between listeners and the music they love. Truth is, not all artists share that awareness. I think you’ll enjoy hearing about his process, his vocational journey and the way he considers those for whom he’s making music.

Check it out…

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #12: Propaganda

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 10 Apr 2017 05:00:58 +0000

My guest on this episode of the podcast is hip hop artist Propaganda.

I have a somewhat poignant recollection of my fist real experience with hip-hop. On April 18, 1992, I was standing in the outfield of the Oakland Coliseum with thousands of other people like me. It was about 1 hr before Bono and U2 took the stage for a Bay Area stop of the Zoo tour and on the mic was an MC named Chuck D,. He was pacing the stage, delivering powerful, poetic lines with an authority and a focus I quite honestly hadn’t seen before in an artist … and have rarely experienced since.

Chuck D was (and is) a singular performer and lyricist. But as much as I was being swept up by the brilliance of Public Enemy… what I was primarily experiencing was the full force of hip hop. I was invited into a narrative and a narrative form with which I was mostly unfamiliar… but one that would eventually take a prominent place in the center of public life and dialogue. I can’t think of a popular art form as broadly accessible while being so politically aware, so culturally aware and so self-aware,

My guest on this episode of the @ Sea Podcast is hip hop artist Propaganda. Our conversation picks up on a topic (or a reality) a lot of great hip hop artists focus on relentlessly and redemptively…. “home” and a sense of place. Check it out.

Music for this episode is taken from two of Propaganda’s albums, both of which you can find at iTunes. You can dig deeper into his work by visiting http://www.humblebeast.com/propaganda/.

If you dig what we’re up to, please leave us a review at iTunes and share this episode with a fiend or 10.

And lastly… if you’d like to support this podcast, hop over to Patreon and help us shape a bit of the future.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #11: Audrey Assad

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 16:48:02 +0000

The line between what is sacred and what some may call “secular” or “profane” is a famously difficult line to navigate. Volumes have been written and argued over regarding where that line is, how to recognize it and how to communicate that line to others.

My guest on episode 11 is songwriter and advocate, Audrey Assad. Her work suggests that the real task might not be so much finding, navigating and communicating a line between where God is and where God isn’t … but sifting, granularly, through one’s own human experience in expectation and hope of discovering a multitude of divine moments and expressions.

That’s a practice my faith tradition calls “discernment.” And among the many admirable characteristics I think you’ll discover in Audrey Assad during our conversation, perhaps most notably is that she is faithfully and generously discerning.

—
NOTE: You can support the @ Sea Podcast and be part of the community that makes this work possible.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #10: David Dark

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:54:25 +0000

My guest on Episode 10 of the @ Sea Podcast is author David Dark. I call him an “author,” perhaps because that’s what he may be best known for. But David is also a professor at Bellmont University in Tennessee, a huge music nerd, a collector of insights and wisdom and a kind of translator between the world as it is and the world we might expect/want it to be. Rather than living in or pointing to the clouds with visions of things as they ought to be, David, in just about all areas of his work, bends low to the ground, picking up clues busier minds (like mine) would otherwise have missed; clues that lead to the hope and expectation that this, in fact, a good world, pregnant with meaning and potential.

In fact, asking David to lead off this Second season of the podcast felt really appropriate because he lives out so well what I seek to achieve with this podcast: to reframe the way we see ourselves, our neighbors and God (and maybe more appropriately) to break the frame and allow/invite a more broadly receptive and joyful human experience.

The @ Sea podcast puts you in touch with great culture makers, because I believe what they do helps to deepen and enrich our lives. As we venture into the second season of the @ Sea podcast, join me in letting David Dark set the tone for our journey and our process.

Music for this episode is provided by the wonderful Sarah Dark, who works under the musical moniker Sara Masen.

You can support the this podcast through Patreon and be part of shaping what the expression and practice of faith looks like in the future. I’d love to have you on the team.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast Season 1 Recap

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 12 Mar 2017 05:25:09 +0000

Welcome to Season 2 of The @ Sea Podcast!

Before we get into the actual interviews and guests that will make up Season 2, I thought it appropriate to look back at a few of the highlights from Season 1; moments that defined the season and helped see me what the podcast was actually about.

We are learning to navigate the turbulent waters in which the practice and expression of faith finds itself. The past few years have been marked by a series of honest, poignant and in many cases, helpful critiques of religious culture. that the spaces and places in which we would normally or traditionally have gathered to see ourselves, one another and God more clearly… well, those places and spaces don’t quite connect or work they way they used to… or the way they were promised to…

The @ Sea Podcast is not only a way to navigate those turbulent waters waters but to help shape what it looks like to think spiritually, humanly… to actually practice faith without the safe harbors we might have once counted on.

We’re doing that by highlighting great culture makers because what they do deepens and enriches our lives. These are women and men who are also building into what comes next regarding the expression and practice of faith.

You can keep up with the podcast by visiting AtseaPodcast.com and now, you can become an integral part of this work and this community. Meet me at patreon.com/justinmcroberts and support the podcast in whatever way and at whatever level you can.

As I mentioned at the top, the @ Sea Podcast is not only a way to navigate the turbulent waters we find ourselves in, but to help shape what it looks like to think spiritually, humanly and actually practice faith in the world as it is… which for many of us, means doing so without the safe harbors we might have once counted on.

Join me for Season 2… as a listener, as a participant, as a patron and as a member of this community.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #8: Katelyn Beaty

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Fri, 14 Oct 2016 22:15:26 +0000

My guest on episode 8 is author and journalist Katelyn Beaty.

Christianity Today made Katelyn the first female managing editor in the magazine’s 60-year history. She also happened to be the youngest managing editor during that same time span. Earlier this year, she released her first book, Entitled “A Woman’s Place: A Christian Vision for your Calling in The Office, The Home and the World.” Most of our conversation focused on that book, which I found to be not only insightful but timely.

This podcast puts you touch with great culture makers because I believe what they do deepens and enriches out lives, What strikes me most about Katelyn is the way she handles somewhat onerous and technically nuanced cultural ideas by keeping those ideas in close proximity to a human narrative, … very often her own. If authority is best used, as we discuss in our conversation, to create room for others, Katelyn exemplifies that practice, by letting her story provide room for people like you and me to more fully identify ourselves and flourish as human.

One note before you dig in: In order to give the conversation more space, we’ve excluded the interludes you may have come to expect during previous episodes. I’d love to know what you think of the longer, more seamless conversation format.

check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #7: David Bazan

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Mon, 5 Sep 2016 08:00:47 +0000

Songwriter and artist David Bazan is my guest on Episode 7 of the @ Sea Podcast. David has been making music professionally since 1995, most notably, As the frontman for Pedro The Lion, the mind behind Headphones and most pertinent to the purposes of this podcast, as a solo artist.

Among the many things I enjoy about David is that he is not a brand, nor does he aspire to be. He is an artist. He is a man making music and musical culture he believes benefits the lives of those who consume it.

We get into his odd role as a prophetic voice in a religious culture that often considers him an outsider, the value of setting vocational goals but holding them loosely and the extremely rare beginnings of his career, during which his parents quite literally encouraged him to quit school to give rock and roll a try.

ONE NOTE about this episode of the podcast, this is the first episode to be labeled “explicit” because of language. I don’t make this note to warn you about bad words, in fear that you can’t handle it… instead, I’d like to use this opportunity to borrow from the brilliant Christena Cleveland, who has, on more than one occasion suggested that, if I’m to honestly and sincerely listen to someone else’s story, I don’t get to dictate the mode, tone or delivery of that person’s storytelling.

This podcast puts you in touch with great culture makers because I believe what they do deepens and enriches out lives. We called it @ Sea, in part because of the Nietzschean notion that “the sea is stormy… but that everything is at sea.” A pursuit of human truth necessarily leads me into waters that are wilder and well beyond my control. If you and I are to discover and hold up the goodness, truth and beauty I believe permeates every square inch and every corner of this world, that will mean spending time in places that are unfamiliar and uncomfortable.

One of the great values I find in David Bazan’s work is not only his willingness to navigate unfamiliar and uncomfortable waters in his own world and psyche, but also his relentless desire to invite you and I into those spaces with him.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #6: Jeremy Courtney

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 12:00:01 +0000

Jeremy Courtney is my guest on episode #6 of the @ Sea Podcast. Along with his wife Jessica, he is the founder of the Preemptive Love Coalition, an organization describing themselves as “a global movement of peacemakers changing the way the world engages polarizing conflict by confronting fear with acts of love.”

Here’s why I’ve asked Jeremy to be a guest:

On August 2nd, 1990, Operation Desert Shield began, called by some the Persian Gulf War. I remember that time period clearly. I found myself blocking roadways in my hometown with groups of friends, each of us carrying cardboard signs with anti-war slogans.

My response to that war was as emotional as it was uninformed. All I knew was that people my age, were dying violently and i reacted. I didn’t know the politics or the sociology; I just knew I didn’t like the idea of war.

Fast forward over a decade to the mid-2000’s and meet Jeremy Courtney who, in the shadow of the Iraq War, which began in March of 2003, moved his family to Iraq. Not because they had a plan or mountains of cash to throw at a problem and not because they were giving in to an uninformed emotion. They moved to Iraq because there were people there. The binary vitriol they Courtney family heard concerning the Iraq war didn’t touch the people it would most directly and dramatically affect, and the Courtney family wanted to touch those people.

That was the beginning of what is now called the Preemptive Love Coalition.

The @ Sea podcast puts you in touch with great culture makers because what they do deepens and enriches our lives… Jeremy’s work enriches many lives, including mine. I caught up with him between Preemptive Love operations in Iraq,

check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #5 with Michael McBride

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 17 Jul 2016 05:05:06 +0000

In Dallas, Texas On July 7th of this year, a heavily armed shooter fired upon a peaceful demonstration and the police officers who had been assembled to ensure the safety of those demonstrating.

Two demonstrators were hurt. 5 officers died.

the shooter was, reportedly, angered by the deaths of black men at the hands of police officers, specifically recent police shootings in Louisiana and Minnesota… both of which were highly publicized and scrutinized as further evidence of the injustice dealt black citizens at the hands of law enforcement.

And while there have been many violent moments in this cyclical history of ours, there was, in my experience, an almost palpable difference between this moment and recent moments. There seemed to be a kind of pause.

There were fewer reactions.
Fewer monologues.
Fewer detached voices offering simple solutions to complex problems.
There were far more expressions like… “I don’t know what to say. I don’t know what to do.”

And I found myself among them; I didn’t know what to say. I didn’t know what to do. That’s an oddly unfamiliar space for me… to feel as if my voice didn’t matter and that my actions could possibly be inconsequential.

That is, as I’ve come to understand, part of what it means to be privileged; that I generally know (or believe) my voice and ideas matter – that my actions have consequence.

But there I was feeling… powerless… silent.

In my humbling immobility, I turned my attentions to Michael McBride. Often called “Pastor Mike,” he is, as you will clearly note, a Pentecostal pastor. He is a graduate of Duke University’s Divinity School, a member of the Presidents advisory council on Faith-based and Neighborhood partnerships. He is National Director for Urban Strategies/LIVE FREE Campaign with the PICO National Network, and the founder and Lead Pastor of The Way Christian Center in Berkeley, CA.

I met up with Michael on a night during which he had assembled and hosted a panel focused on gun violence. It was a vibrant and powerful evening which left me with the clear impression that there is a qualitative difference between conversations in which participants are primarily interested in making a point and conversations in which participants are primarily interested in making a difference.

Like the panel he assembled that night, Michael McBride is a man for whom political points and Facebook likes are next to meaningless, but for whom the lives of real people mean everything. I normally introduce each episode with the declaration that the At Sea Podcast puts you in touch with great culture makers because I believe what they do helps us live deeper and richer lives. The reality is that what Michael McBride does ensures that some people get to live at all.

Our conversation ranged from real-world statistics and solutions regarding gun violence, to the nature of racial hierarchy, to the socio-philosophical ramifications of Star Trek… check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #4 with Jars of Clay

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 26 Jun 2016 15:20:47 +0000

Jars of Clay has been living and working at the intersection of art, religion and advocacy for over 20years.

We talked about early expectations for a successful band to how valuable that success is. We also discussed the usefulness of the word “christian,” and what it takes for a group of people to stick together for two decades.

Because this was recorded during one of the dozen or so events the @ Sea team has hosted over the past four years, you’ll hear be start the evening with a bit of our philosophy and vision. You’ll also hear me laugh into the microphone quite loudly throughout the evening.

Check it out at iTunes.

NOTE: If the iTunes link gives you trouble, you can hear all the podcasts at our Stitcher page.)

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #3: Michael Wear

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sun, 5 Jun 2016 12:12:38 +0000

My guest for episode 3 is Michael Wear. Buzzfeed calls him one of President Obama’s “ambassadors to America’s believers.” Having worked in the White House office of Faith-Based initiateves, Michael Wear is recently the author of a book entitled “Reclaiming Hope: Lessons Learned in the Obama White House About the Future of Faith In America.”

We talk about working at the intersection of politics and faith, the relationship between House of Cards and reality and whether or not it actually matters if people participate in the political process.

Michael is also a Buffalo Bills fan, which means he and I share the pain that comes from backing historically underachieving teams (go Raiders).

Check it out.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

The @ Sea Podcast #2, featuring songwriter/producer busbee, is at iTunes now.

@ Sea Podcast #2: busbee

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Tue, 17 May 2016 00:01:25 +0000

Mike Busbee (busbee) is a songwriter and producer working in Los Angeles and Nashville. If you’ve listened to pop music at all in the past few years, it’s very likely you’ve heard and enjoyed busbee’s work, as performed by Pink, Rascal Flats, Kelly Clarkson, Garth Brooks, The Fray, Lady Antebellum, Timbaland and many more. At the time of this post, two of the top 5 songs on the iTunes charts are busbee songs – Keith Urban’s “The Fighter” and “H.O.L.Y.” by Florida Georgia Line.

Along with being a very talented writer, he’s a deeply thoughtful person. Busbee and I get into the nature and importance of pop music, the uniqueness of working in Los Angeles (as opposed to Bakersfield, CA) and the cultural dichotomy of filling a $500 cooler with cheap beer. Check it out.

If, for any reason, the iTunes link gives you trouble, you can hear the podcast at Soundcloud (below) and at Stitcher.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it

@ Sea Podcast #1: Gene Luen Yang

mcwhatshisface@gmail.com (@ Sea With Justin McRoberts) — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 21:04:04 +0000

The first installment of my first podcast, entitled “@Sea With Justin McRoberts,” is at iTunes. I am expecting this to become a significant part of my future and I’m glad you’ll be with me on these first few steps. Check it out.

Gene Luen Yang is a writer and graphic novelist responsible for American Born Chinese and Boxers & Saints, both of which were nominated for National Book Awards. He is also the writer of DC’s “Superman” and will, this summer, be writing “New Superman” as part of DC’s Rebirth line.

Gene and I talked about the importance and uniqueness of comics, the journey of Asian Americans in pop culture and how to wisely approach topics like race and religion in ones art.

NOTE: If, for any reason, the iTunes link gives you problems, I’ve also uploaded the podcast to Soundcloud.

Connect with Gene:
Web
Twitter

Learn more about DC Comics’ Rebirth.

Links For Justin:

Order In The Low - NEW Book with Scott Erickson
Coaching with Justin
Order In Rest - New Book of Poems

NEW Single - Let Go

NEW Music - Sliver of Hope

NEW Music - The Dood and The Bird

The Book - It Is What You Make it