“They’re committed to resolving it without ever going to court and doing it in a collaborative, consensual manner.” - Jeff at 6:22 

“This idea that one person is filing for a divorce and the other’s responding to it. In many ways, does set the tone for the entire divorce.” - Jeff at 9:50

“Inherent in mediation and collaborative divorce is this idea that it’s going to be their agreement, that they are going to work it out on their own.” - Jeff at 11:37

“It’s really setting the stage for, ‘Here’s what we’d like to see happen. Ideally we are going to commit to trying to reach an agreement, commit to self determination and making these decisions ourselves and commit to a less threatening start of a process.’ So it really sets the stage. The process is designed to be protective.” - Jennifer at 13:59

“Balance between creating a process where people work together but also keeping all the protections in place so no one is ever gonna waive any legal rights when they’re starting a joint petition process.” -Jeff at 27:53

“Clients love it.” - Jeff at 28:33

Guest Bio - Jeffery has been practicing family law since 1996 and is certified as a Specialist in Family Law by The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization.  His family law practice focuses exclusively on consensual dispute resolution, including mediation and collaborative divorce.

Los Angeles Magazine recognized him as a Super Lawyer for 2011 – 2025 and a Super Lawyers Rising Star for 2005 – 2010.  Jeffery received a Eureka Award in 2019 from Collaborative Practice California, in recognition of his contributions to the field of collaborative divorce in the state of California.  Jeffery co-authored Los Angeles County Local Rule 5.26, the most comprehensive collaborative practice rule in the state of California.  

Prior to founding Jacobson Family Law and Mediation, Jeffery was a partner at Jacobson Scully, LLP, with offices in the South Bay and West Los Angeles.  Prior to going into private practice in 2003, he served as Executive Director of Levitt & Quinn Family Law Center, a nonprofit law firm which provides family law services to low-income individuals in Los Angeles.  He began his legal career at the family law and mediation firm of Mosten & Tuffias.

Jeffery is the past chair of the Family Law Section of the Beverly Hills Bar Association and served as president of the Los Angeles Collaborative Family Law Association.  He previously served multiple terms on the Executive Committee of the Family Law Section of the Los Angeles County Bar Association.  He currently serves on the Board of Directors of Levitt & Quinn.  He is a member of A Better Divorce and Los Angeles Westside Collaborative Divorce Professionals, interdisciplinary groups of professionals in Los Angeles and the South Bay committed to non-court solutions for family law matters.

Jeffery has delivered numerous presentations and served as a panelist in programs related to a variety of substantive family law issues, in addition to programs related to family law mediation and collaborative divorce, for the Los Angeles County Bar Association, Beverly Hills Bar Association, State Bar of California, Association for Family and Conciliation Courts, Los Angeles Collaborative Family Law Association, UCLA School of Law, USC School of Law, Loyola Law School and many other entities. 

Jeffery graduated with highest honors from the University of California at Berkeley in 1992, and was recognized as Outstanding Undergraduate in Political Science.  He received his J.D. from UCLA Law School in 1996. 

Jennifer Winestone, Esq., LLM (ADR) is the founder of Winestone Mediation,PC, where she focuses on helping families resolve complex separation, divorce, and child custody disputes. Having lived and practiced law for the first half of her career in Canada before relocating to Southern California, Jennifer brings a perspective that is both distinctive and deeply practical. Her professional life sharpened her problem-solving skills and reinforced her belief that even the most entrenched conflicts can be navigated with creativity, patience, and empathy.

Jennifer earned her LL.M. in Dispute Resolution from the renowned Straus Institute at Pepperdine University School of Law, following her J.D. from the University of Ottawa and her undergraduate degree from the University of Western Ontario. She is certified in Collaborative Family Law and New Ways for Families and is admitted to the California State Bar, with prior admission to the Law Society of Upper Canada. A highly engaged leader in the dispute resolution community, Jennifer has served on the executive committee of the Beverly Hills Bar Association’s Mediation Section, sat on the board of the Los Angeles Collaborative Family Law Association, and acted as a Dispute Settlement Officer for the Los Angeles Superior Court. Jennifer established the curriculum for the Divorce and Family Mediation course at USC Law School, where she currently serves as adjunct professor.  She was recently honored as recipient of the 2025 Eureka Award from Collaborative Practice California, recognizing her contribution to Senate Bill 1427, which created a new joint petition process in California family law procedure. 

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:50 - Introducing Jeffery S. Jacobson & Jennifer Winestone

3:06 - Why Create this New Joint Petition?

8:11 - Does the Joint Petition Change the Overall Tone of Divorce?

10:53 - What is the Collaborative Process?

13:13 - The Joint Petition is Designed to be the Starting Point

14:50 - Protections and the Off-Ramp

18:01 - The Filing Fee & Maintaining Representation

22:13 - Joint Petition Limitations

24:28 - Exchanging Financial Information

28:09 - Jeff’s Experience Thus Far

29:50 - Future Considerations & Improvements 

34:29  - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and Family Law Center of Southern California, please visit: https://www.famlawsc.com/

“Where can I make a direct impact?” 3:30

“My ex and I went to coparenting therapy and I recommend this to all clients that have a contentious relationship where there’s a child involved.” 6:25

“If this is really about your child, and you have to be reflective, you have to be introspective, then you will do everything and anything to ensure your child’s wellbeing.” 8:47

“When you communicate with your problematic ex, you need to keep it short, simple, sweet because you have to keep in mind that every written communication that you have with your ex will be under the microscope, it will be viewed by the courts.” 10:01

“I say short, simple, sweet.” 10:56

“Let the other party’s actions speak for themselves.” 12:52

“I feel like the crux of a lot of these pitfalls comes from not giving yourself the space and the grace to properly grieve.” 13:20

“That’s a very common pitfall that I see is trying to dictate what the other parent does.” 15:39

“The courts want to maintain the status quo if it’s working for the children.” - Ann Grant 21:54

“It’s in the best interest of a child to have time with both parents.” 25:27

“One of the things that I had to do was really silence the voices of others’ around me.” 29:56

Guest Bio - Since 2013, Sarah has exclusively practiced family law across California, representing clients from case inception through trial. A skilled litigator who prioritizes efficient, strategic resolutions, she handles custody, support, move-away cases, and complex asset issues with care. Sarah also advises on prenups, postnups, and cohabitation agreements. As a child of refugees and a co-parent herself, she brings empathy, cultural awareness, and fierce advocacy to every case—treating her clients’ matters as if they were her own.

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:50 - Introducing Sarah Ho

1:40 - Why Did You Choose Family Law?

6:06 - How Does Your Personal CoParenting Experience Impact Your Work with Clients?

9:11 - Helpful Communication Skills When Coparenting with a Problematic Ex

13:09 - Biggest Mistake Divorcing & Separating Parents Make

18:32 - 50/50 Custody & Issues Concerning A Child's Health, Safety, & Welfare

29:38 - Additional Considerations for CoParenting

32:49 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant, Sarah Ho and Family Law Center of Southern California, please visit: 

https://www.famlawsc.com/

“It’s being able to get to the root of communication, so that the emotion doesn’t get us off track.” 2:21

“If you as a receiver can let somebody feel understood, feel heard, there’s 90% of the problem.” 2:48

“When you’re the receiver in a conversation, in communication, your job is to keep everything about the sender.” 6:12

“If we can work together shoulder to shoulder, then we’re a team.” 10:11

“Neither one of us can be completely self-focused and expect a relationship to work.” 10:41

“For women in particular, the magic combination for communication is to be assertive and warm as opposed to aggressive.” - Ann @ 11:17

“If it’s not equally beneficial, then your approach was not assertive.” 20:13

“Getting through the divorce amicably, in a healthy, effective way, is simply more pleasant than fighting.” 21:24

“If you transact primarily with your partner, you’re going to have problems.  It’s going to become an arrangement.” 26:12

“If we think we are going to have a happy relationship, we must relate and not just transact.” 26:46

“If a transactional approach is to accomplish something, a relational approach is to hold concern for my partner.” 28:06

“Men naturally transact and women more naturally relate.” 31:59

“Every interaction we have with people is some degree of intimacy.” 39:22

“Sex addiction is not a problem with sex, it’s a problem with intimacy.” 44:46

“If you don’t keep your emotional intimacy more developed than your physical intimacy, then there’s going to be problems because physical intimacy lends itself more to a transaction and emotional intimacy is more relating to each other.” 46:00

“Hold off on the physical intimacy until we can develop more emotional intimacy.” 47:52

“Sex is more effectively used by reflecting that intimacy rather than creating it, so if there’s a bond between two people, sex can only reflect that bond. Not create the bond.” 49:43

“If you’re dealing with narcissism, I can’t change this person, but what I can change are the boundaries that I set, the boundaries that I keep, and I can work to become more assertive than passive.” 52:24

“Self care means I’m going to benefit people around me every bit as much as I’m benefitting myself, that’s why it’s still part of other-focused.” 53:49

“The protocol, in simple terms, is looking at the things that you want to accomplish, things that are going to make you a better person, the person that you want to be, and just tracking how much you’re doing these things versus the things that are drawing you away from that stuff.” 56:14

“If you have a narcissistic partner, it really helps you take the focus off them and puts it back on taking care of yourself.” 1:01:12

Guest Bio - Kevin's favorite parts of being a therapist are helping men get free of problem sexual behavior and helping people with their relationships. He's licensed as a marriage and family therapist and also opened a coaching practice for those who like a more-casual, less-fixed approach. He especially enjoys relationship coaching and recovery coaching.

Show Notes -

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:49 - Introducing Kevin Bergen

1:15 - Effective Communication Tools for Couples

10:52 - Solutions for Passive Aggressive Communication

15:21 - How to Use the Interaction Dial with Your Clients

22:29 - How to Avoid the Roommate Phase in Marriage

34:51 - A Discussion on the Meaning of Intimacy

43:58 - Overcoming Sex Addiction

51:20 - How to Break Free From A Narcissist

55:25 - The Bergen Protocol: How to Achieve Your Goals

1:01:37 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and Family Law Center of Southern California, please visit: https://www.famlawsc.com/

Links & Where to Find Kevin -

Clinical website: www.kevinbergen.com

Coaching website: www.CourageousDecisions.com

The Bergen Protocol by Kevin Bergen

“I had three main ideas I wanted to follow through my divorce; kindness, respect, and generosity.” 4:29

“Hey, we’re not going to be married anymore, now what?” 5:40

“My number one goal in getting divorced was to not be bitter.” - Ann @ 6:35

“I will give you 100% custody, without any strings attached and no no anger whatsoever, in exchange for 100% visitation.” 9:09

“I know what I was able to do was to let my relationship with my wife change.” 13:23

“Do everything you can to stay married. Respect your wife throughout every moment of this thing.  If you want to be generous, that’s fine, but don’t be stupid generous.” 27:44

“The couples that I’ve worked with in the collaborative process are by and far my happiest divorced clients.” - Ann @ 33:01

Guest Bio

Tom Sturges is an icon in the music industry.  He served as President of Chrysalis Music and Head of Creative for Universal Music Publishing Group. He has been an active Grammy member for over 30 years.  He’s also authored 5 books and is a regular guest speaker and educator.  He is a professor at UCLA and father of 3 boys living in Los Angeles.

Show Notes 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:49 - Introducing Tom Sturges

2:05 - Cracking the Code

3:35 - How Did You Make It A Good Divorce?

6:22 - Write One Check

13:18 - How the Relationship with My Wife Changed

19:28 - The Importance of Not Flaunting the New Girlfriend

24:00 - The Fellow in England Who Lost His Castle

28:14 - Thoughts on A Loveless Marriage & Staying Married for the Kids

34:13 - Scorched Earth Divorce Stories

38:57 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Tom 

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-sturges-79512a55/

IG - https://www.instagram.com/tomsturgesideas/

Book

A Good Divorce Starts Here by Tom Sturges 

“A trauma bond is a dysfunctional relationship between two emotionally connected people, and usually there’s a perpetrator and a victim.” 4:00

“The research shows that women will go back to their abuser 4-7 times before they actually leave.” 6:29

“There’s a symptom called cognitive dissonance that is caused by a trauma bond.” 6:51

“In therapy, you want to give the woman, or anybody, agency.” 9:07

“Being educated can support your empowerment to leave.” 10:25

“A trauma bond is traumatic, so trauma means anything that’s outside the realm of normalcy.” 11:57

“When you’ve been traumatized, the first thing you have to do is stabilize.” 12:27

“The yoga practice is helpful because it helps you ground down and get back into your body and out of your head.” -Ann @ 13:19

“Routine helps us also deal with anxiety.” 13:55

“That conscientious part is going to get you through.” 24:44

“We’ve been so focused on our partner when we’ve been in a trauma bond, really turn the mirror back on you and surround yours;f with like minded individuals that really get it” 26:20

“Where there’s fear, there’s transformation.” 29:45

“I found out that playing it safe was the most dangerous thing to do.” 30:25

Guest Bio

At the age of twenty-two, Nadine's life took an unexpected turn when she married Jordan Belfort, the infamous stockbroker immortalized in the Hollywood hit "The Wolf of Wall Street." Initially, their union seemed like a modern-day fairytale, but beneath the surface, a dark reality began to unfold. As their bond tightened, Jordan's façade crumbled, revealing a complex web of infidelity, narcissistic abuse, insatiable greed, and a devastating drug addiction that transformed Nadine's dream into a harrowing nightmare.

The turmoil of this traumatic relationship served as the catalyst for Nadine's remarkable journey. Fuelled by her determination to help others facing similar struggles, she pursued a path of healing and transformation. She received her Master's degree in Counseling and a Ph.D. in somatic psychotherapy, Dr. Nae established a thriving private practice. Her office quickly became a sanctuary for women who shared hauntingly familiar tales of entanglement with pathological lovers (PLs), trapped in the clutches of

trauma bonds.

What began as a personal mission to facilitate healthy relationship development evolved into an impactful vocation. Over six years, Dr. Nae immersed herself in the study of trauma bond relationships, synthesizing her academic foundation with the wisdom gleaned from her patients' stories. Through this journey, she ascended to the status of a recognized authority in the realms of narcissistic abuse, trauma bonds, and complex PTSD.

She recently wrote a book, "Run Like Hell: A Therapist's Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds," scheduled for publication on January 9th, 2024 (available for pre-order on Amazon). In

this seminal guide, she shares both her personal narrative and the wealth of knowledge acquired over the years. Readers are granted insights into the psyche of the narcissistic pathological lover, a nuanced understanding of the traits that render certain women susceptible to their advances, and practical

strategies for breaking free from the shackles of trauma bonds.

Nadine's mission extends far beyond knowledge dissemination; it is a beacon of hope for those ensnared in the darkness. With her guidance, readers are empowered to transcend the clutches of trauma bonds, emerging as resilient "surthrivers" primed for healthy, meaningful relationships. She lives between New York and Florida with her husband of 22 years and their two dogs; she has four children and two grandchildren. And when she's not working, she loves to exercise, decorate, cook, and spoil her grandchildren.

Show Notes 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:49 - Introducing Nadine Macaluso

2:13 - Why Did You Write ‘Run Like Hell’?

3:27 - Explanation of the DSM Five & the Meaning of Trauma Bond

5:41 - Why Would Smart Women Return to the Abuser?

8:16 - Find a Therapist & An Accountability Person

11:46 - Supportive Practices for Women

14:25 - How Did You Get the Courage to Leave?

15:24 - Mental Health & Learned Helplessness

20:19 - The Pathological Lover Looks for Specific Personality Traits

25:07 - Advice to Women Searching for A Therapist

30:57 - If It’s Not For You, Do It For Your Children

32:43 - The Silver Lining

34:08 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Nadine 

www.drnae.com

https://linktr.ee/drnae

IG - @therealdrnadine

Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drnaelmft

Youtube 

“The goal of yoga, the word itself means to connect or to join together.” 4:30

“There’s nothing like the yoga practice, in my personal experience, to really help ground us.” - Ann @ 7:27

“I wrote my book specifically with the goal of trying to break things down so it wouldn’t be so overwhelming.” - Ann @ 8:31

“A divorce is a loss that is like the grieving process.” - Ann @ 9:12

“Commit to some sort of daily practice.” 12:40

“One of my key learning points from going through divorce is remove distraction.” 14:19

“The body doesn’t lie.” 14:55 

“We can all agree that there’s a greater power out there.” 19:17

“We can’t control anybody but ourselves.” - Ann @ 20:15

“I can make a choice to engage in it in a way that either entangles me or liberates me.” 21:41

“Children learn about relationships from what they see.” 43:07 

“Take that time to fill your cup every day with your movement practice, with something that brings you joy, even if it’s four or five minutes.” 44:46

“The power of three.” 45:20 

Guest Bio

Shelley Williams is a health & wellness expert specializing in yoga, pilates, breathwork, meditation, and nutrition. Shelley is the creator of Yoga Mittra, which offers annual mentorship and certification in Yoga & Pilates.  Shelley curates and guides international retreats, offering unique cultural and nature-filled experiences for personal growth and wellness.  Shelley is the founder of Freedom Tribe, a support program for women contemplating and going through divorce--to reclaim their health and balance from the inside out.

Show Notes

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:50 - Introducing Shelley Williams

3:24 - What is Yoga?

7:40 - How to Use Yoga to Combat the Overwhelm of Divorce

13:58 - The Four Stages of Grief 

20:00 - Letting Go of Control to Embrace Acceptance & Freedom

25:18 - How Does the Freedom Tribe Help Women?

36:34 - What Would You Do Differently in Your Divorce?

39:55 - Would You Do Anything Different with Your Kids and Co-Parenting?

43:55 - What Advice Would You Give to Women Contemplating or Going Through A Divorce?

46:26 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Shelley

IG - @yogamittra 

“When we got divorced, I didn’t want to throw away the friendship.” 6:43

“We kept our sense of humor.  We kept some respect, and we kept kids in our line of vision the entire time, we were playing the long game.” 7:13

“I really needed to look and feel good for myself.” 8:47

“I really do have the power to change my mood, my body, my social life.” 10:00

“It was about collaborating with my body instead of hating it. You can’t hate yourself well, but you can love it well.” 10:57

“I had to really push myself out of my comfort zone.” - Ann @ 11:23

“I became a yogi during my divorce.” - Ann @ 12:55

“I needed my physiology to be right in order for me to have the energy.” 16:01

“I got really clear on what is most important to me.” 23:20

“I need to know that that person has the capacity to problem solve respectfully.” 26:46

“This complicated person who loves me also hurt me.” 32:26 

“If you really want someone to love you, if you really want a relationship where you feel seen, known, and loved for you, then show you and be honest about what you really want.” 34:12 

“Familiarity breeds contempt.” -Ann @ 40:53 

“Nature doesn’t even have permanence.” 42:58

“You live like you’re dying. You live like today’s the last day.” 43:44

Guest Bio

Michelle Gillette is a purpose-driven wellness entrepreneur: a former hedge fund executive turned mom and Functional Medicine Health Coach committed to helping others to reinvigorate themselves, from the inside out, whether that be physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, relationally or "all of the above." 

She still believes in love, and is passionate about helping others get unstuck from the patterns that have held them back. 

She's certified as a Life Coach, Health Coach, Brain Health Coach and Breathing Coach -- but it's her own odds-defying life of learned resilience that has truly given her the perspective, relatability, compassion and experience to support others as they go from "merely surviving to thriving." 

She was married for 23 years, and today is empty-nested, amicably divorced and co-parenting two well-adjusted 20-something humans, who she continues to learn from and adore.

Show Notes 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:50 - Introducing Michelle Gillette

2:22 - What Have You Done to Recreate Yourself Post-Divorce?

4:38 - Making An Amicable Divorce Happen

8:15 - Self-Care Tips During the Transition of Divorce

13:28 - Why Did You Become A Life Coach?

17:08 - Let’s Talk About Dating Post-Divorce

22:44 - How Did You Manifest What You Wanted?

29:47 - A Discussion on Attachment Styles  

37:45 - Looking for the ‘Spark’

45:01 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Michelle 

www.michellegillettecoaching.com

IG - @Michellegillette_ 

“Obstacles plus attraction equal desire.” - Ann quoting Ester Perel @ 9:52

“The other thing that’s equally as damaging that’s come out in the research is where there’s contemptuous coldness.” - Ann @ 11:14

“We don’t have a divorce problem, we have a marriage problem.” - Ann @ 13:12

“Marriage is the only place where we sign a contract for life.” - Ann @ 13:16

“Never take your husband for granted on a daily basis.” 13:43

“I would live for my kids.”  19:04

“Don’t lose track of the big picture.” 30:02

“There is no winning in divorce.” - Ann @ 36:49

“Trust, loyalty, respect.” 41:12

“I think fear holds us back from doing what we know is right for us.” 43:33

“Perspective is everything.” 43:42

“The light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train.” - Ann @ 46:16

Guest Bio - It wasn’t until Courtney experienced the divorce process herself, with her two children, that she became vigilant about easing future uncertainties for families going through divorce. Since then, Courtney has helped countless individuals make their divorces quick, easy, and efficient. Her ability to simplify the divorce process has proven invaluable to her clients and is one of the qualities that make her a Super Lawyer’s Rising Star.

Though she was born and raised in New York City, Courtney attended Whittier Law School, in Costa Mesa, CA where she earned her Juris Doctorate and graduated cum laude. She was an active member of the Whittier Law Review and was published in their national journal. Courtney received her bachelor’s degree in Philosophy from Tulane University in New Orleans.

After her admission to the California bar in 2013, Courtney served as the head of the Estate Planning Division for a family law firm. Courtney has experience in family law matters involving support issues, child custody, property division, modifications of judgments, and the preparation of premarital agreements.

Show Notes -

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:33 - Introducing Guest, Courtney Glickman

0:56 - How Did You Become A Family Law Attorney?

2:46 - Pros & Cons of Prenuptial Agreements

4:17 - Marriage Statistics & the Concept of A Wed-Lease Agreement

16:50 - Operating As A Single Mom & A Co-Parent

20:52 - Living Alone Together Discussion

24:02 - The Fake Marriage

26:42 - Cohabitation Agreements

28:10 - The Art of Co-Parenting 

30:45 - Understanding Power Imbalance & Learning to See the Big Picture

38:27 - Three Stages of Being Married

40:47 - What Did You Learn About Relationships from Your Divorce?

42:10 - Would You Get Married Again?

42:56 - Advice for Women Contemplating or Going Through Divorce with Children

46:01 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Courtney - 

https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/courtney-glickman

“I realized that I could be really helpful.” 3:23

“I think marriage is fantastic.  I’m just opposed to staying in a bad marriage.” 6:53

“We don’t have a divorce problem.  We have a marriage problem.” 7:39

Studies have shown that staying together for the children, if it’s a bad marriage, is a bad idea, it’s not good for the kids.” 13:56

“Partners will overlook infidelity so long as they can rebuild trust, respect, and commitment.” 17:18

“Contempt is the biggest destroyer of relationships.” 21:00

“20 minutes is the length of time that most humans need to regroup.” 22:35

“If you need to go to bed with this unresolved, agree to touch your feet.” - Michelle @ 23:43

“It’s extremely important to see what people do rather than what they say.” 26:55

“Men achieve intimacy through sex.” 29:31

“Getting in touch with your femininity and viewing it not as giving, but receiving, is incredibly empowering.” 35:53

“There’s no better form of self-care than good sex.  It’s really a wonderful gift that a couple can share with each other.” 36:21

“In order for there to be attraction, there has to be distance.” 37:40 

“I think it’s a good idea to get ready separately.” - Michelle @ 39:42

“The seduction starts the minute you stop having sex the last time.” - Michelle quoting Esther Perel @ 40:36

“If you are having sex to connect, then don’t hop out of bed right away when you’re done, like stay there and cuddle because that’s a really great time to connect.” -Michelle @ 42:36

Guest Bio - Ann Grant is an attorney, author, entrepreneur, a law professor—and—host of Divorce Hacker.  

Ann did not aspire to be a divorce attorney – in a prior lifetime, she was a corporate litigator, married to a corporate litigator with three children.  But when her seemingly perfect 16 year marriage ended and she experienced a very high conflict divorce, she created a support group for women contemplating divorce.  

It was from this group that Ann was asked to represent one of the women in her divorce—combining the legal skills she had acquired during her years as an experienced litigator with her personal experience as a mother—she was extremely effective-- both in and out of the courtroom.  This experience was the impetus for Ann’s bestselling book, The Divorce Hacker’s Guide to Untying the Knot, which provides legal, financial, and psychological expertise to help the reader skillfully prepare and protect themself as they navigate the modern divorce—proactively, efficiently, resiliently.  

The rest is history--Manhattan Beach Family Law—founded by Ann-- has grown exponentially and has offices in Manhattan Beach, Brentwood and Newport Beach with the viewers of Divorce Hacker Ann is excited to share with viewers of Divorce Hacker what she’s learned over the years representing hundreds of individuals. 

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:34 - Introducing The Divorce Hacker, Ann Grant

1:41 - Why Did You Become An Attorney?

3:54 - The Collaborative Process

6:05 - What’s Your View on Marriage Now?

10:40 - Concept of the Wed-Lease

12:23 - Thoughts on Staying Together for the Kids

16:37 - What’s the Most Common Reason for Divorce?

19:34 - The Gottman Method

24:35 - What are the Components of A Healthy Marriage? 

28:42 - Thoughts on Sexless Marriages

36:44 - What Advice Do You Have for Men When it Comes to Sex?

43:40 - What is the Best Way to Prepare for Divorce?

45:13 - Don’t Do These Things After the Date of Separation

47:57 - Pay Attention to the Red Flags Before Marriage

50:41 - Thank Yous & Divorce Hacker Closing

Links & Where to Find Ann - 

MB Family Law - https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/anngrantmbfl/

IG - @divorcehacker 

The Divorce Hacker Youtube 

“If you deviate from what is optimal for kids, it’s going to have a negative impact.” 3:22

“It is difficult to be your best self all the time.” 5:55

“Our home is really where we develop our sense of self, and our sense of what the world is like.” 8:01

“Every challenge presents an opportunity for change.” 9:07

“Our kids need us to admit when we are wrong.” 9:50

“We cannot not communicate.” 15:16

“Infidelity is a symptom of something else going on.” 17:21

“Divorce is a game.  I have to have a strategy.” 23:27

“I’m looking at the divorce like the dissolution of a business partnership.” - Ann @ 26:24

“Even to show up better for my kids means I need to show up better for myself.” 32:06

“We all operate best in a village.” 38:37

Guest Bio - Teressa Wilcox, MS, is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. She is the owner and founder of The Healing Center for Trauma and Relationships and is currently a doctoral candidate at Hope International University, expected to graduate in December 2023. Since the late 1990s, Teressa has worked with those affected by abuse, trauma, and less than ideal relationships.  As her passion for Marriage & Family therapy expanded, so has her career.  As a subject matter expert, Teressa has utilized her expertise beyond her practice in higher education as a professor and supervisor training new therapists in Marriage and Family Therapy since 2011. Over the last two decades, Teressa has sustained a successful private practice in Huntington Beach, CA. During this time, her work has continued to expand into international arenas. She has been a guest speaker at international retreats and conferences while additionally providing mental health care to full-time missionaries. Teressa’s passions and expertise center around relationships, trauma care, and mentoring young MFT professionals. Her practice, The Healing Center for Trauma and Relationships, has recently expanded to include offices in both Huntington Beach and Placentia, California. Their goal is to provide quality care for clients and mentored experience and training for therapists.  

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:50 - Introducing Guest, Teressa Wilcox

 1:56 - Recent Studies on Broken Homes Making Broken Children

4:31 - Disconnection Comes from Being Married, but Living Separate Lives

8:34 - Modeling How to Process Negative Emotions During Divorce

16:03 - Advice for People Dealing with an Unfaithful Spouse

20:21 - Tips for Divorcing a Narcissist 

25:48 - The Freezing Tendency of Trauma

32:34 - Tools for Battling Dysregulation 

36:35 - Building Community to Overcome Overwhelm During Divorce

40:33 - Synchronicities & Parallels with Recovery Programs

44:15 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Teressa - 

IG: @thehctr

FB: @thehctr

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teressa-wilcox-6247a245

“When there’s love, it usually turns to hate pretty quick.” 12:22

“I'd rather feel better than than less than.” 17:31

“That’s been a saving grace of mine actually, is honesty.” 26:06

“I want to give people hope that my relationships are healed now.” 34:41

“I pray to something greater than me.” 50:33

“There’s more purpose for me in this life.” 1:01:17

“You have to be open, honest, and willing to get help.” 1:03:32

“Addiction is a family disease.” 1:04:14

“You can only be in a healthy, loving relationship if you love yourself.” 1:06:47

Guest Bio - Taylor Grant is a Southern California native and daughter to two LA litigator parents. At age 8, her parents separated and went to court over child custody. This chaotic atmosphere became normal and Taylor became accustomed to stuffing her emotions inwards. It wasn’t until early adulthood that she experienced the harm of emotional suppression in the form of addiction.

Taylor attended Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, where her first two years of college were painful as she struggled socially and suffered from severe depression and anxiety. She developed an eating disorder that lasted for two years before she found alcohol and partying as a replacement. Within 11 months, Taylor found herself a prisoner to lethal drug addiction. Despite her illness, she graduated Cal Poly in 2019 with a 3.5 GPA. Within three weeks of moving home from school, Taylor was sent to an intensive inpatient rehabilitation program.

Taylor earned 18 months of sobriety and applied to graduate school to become an LMFT in 2020 with the desire to help fellow addicts. She successfully completed the first quarter, but by the second quarter, drugs found her again. Taylor withdrew and went to a rehabilitation facility in Texas that had equine therapy. She also got back into yoga and found its movement patterns nurturing, which helped her heal physically, mentally, and emotionally.

After 2 years of continuous sobriety, rigorous AA step work, and self-exploration, Taylor decided to go back to Antioch University where she is in school to become an LMFT. She is eager to offer therapeutic help to fellow addicts in recovery, and is also keen to help children of divorce navigate their ways through the murky waters of a dissolving family system. Taylor is very excited to be pursuing a career in mental health where she can learn how to help people, like herself, heal.

Show Notes - 15

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:34 - Introducing Guest Taylor Grant

1:22 - WIMTS Intro

1:44 - Welcome Taylor Grant

2:27 - Discovering the Addictive Pattern

5:17 - The Importance of a Father

8:27 - High School

12:30 - First Two Years of College at Cal Poly SLO

14:20 - I Found Alcohol & Partying

22:30 - Isolation Drinking & Blacking Out in College

24:34 - MB Family Law

25:38 - Summer Before Senior Year I Met a Guy

29:42 - Everyone Smokes Marijuana

31:17 - Introduced to Cocaine & Headed to Rehab within 11 Months

36:08 - Shameful Graduation

40:08 - How Were Your Parents Dealing at This Point?

48:01 - It’s A Day to Day Choice

48:15 - Be Better Media Commercial

53:59 - A God Shot

1:02:21 - Taylor of Today

1:04:39 - Takeaways from Daughters of Divorce Book

1:09:19 - What I Would Tell My Younger Self

1:09:52 - Thank You & WIMTS Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Taylor - 

IG - @tay1031

“It’s hard to act in a healthy way in that very chaotic situation.” 4:10 

“In retrospect, don’t do what I did.” 11:39

“That’s the most important energy you need from a guy, from a man, your dad, unconditional love.” 15:00

“They need to see that we work together.” 19:35

“When you can not communicate with your spouse, you avoid it.” 22:46

“Come from kindness.  Come from love.” 24:28

Guest Bio - James Grant is Of Counsel in Glaser Weil’s Litigation Department. He has over 30 years of litigation experience resolving a broad spectrum of civil matters through mediation, trial, arbitration, and appeal in state and federal courts in California and across the country. Over his career, James has represented Fortune 500 companies, mid-cap and small-cap companies, and individuals in a wide range of market sectors, including in the health care, real estate, publishing, motion picture, television, manufacturing, retail, construction, banking, and lending industries. 

James is a former sole practitioner who has also worked at prominent law firms, including starting his career at Latham & Watkins and partnership at McDermott, Will & Emery. James is counsel of record in, inter alia, the following published opinions: State of California, ex rel. Mueller v. Walgreen Corporation, 175 F.R.D. 631 (N.D. Cal. 1997); State of California, ex rel. Mueller v. Walgreen Corporation, 175 F.R.D. 638 (N.D. Cal. 1997); Chinese Yellow Pages Co. v. Chinese Overseas Marketing Service Corp., 170 Cal.App.4th 863 (2008); In re Estate of King Wah Chui, California Court of Appeal, Second Appellate District, Case No. B306918 (March 2, 2022) (Cert. for Part. Pub.). 

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:34 - Introducing Guest Jim Grant

2:55 - Jim’s Perspective on the Divorce Journey

5:15 - Insights for Fathers of Daughters Going through Divorce

9:10 - The New Girlfriend Dynamic

15:20 - MB Family Law Commercial

15:59 - Giving Credit Where Credit is Due

19:57 - Advice to Men Contemplating or Going through Divorce

22:15 - The Importance of Communication in Marriage

23:30 - Be Better Media Commercial

25:25 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Jim - 

Email: JGrant@GlaserWeil.com

“I look back now at every obstacle being an opportunity for me to turn pain into power.” 2:57 

“I’m brave because I’ve overcome multiple challenges.” 4:22

“You are a warrior.  You were born to fight.” 5:31

“Be truthful, not neutral.” 7:44

“Sometimes you have to burn a bridge to find your true calling.” 12:03

“I believe that bravery is like a muscle and everyday you need to commit a random act of bravery.” 13:46

“It’s very easy in our careers and in our relationships to not have perspective.” - Ann @ 22:29

“Continue to practice being brave, continue to find out what you love, and continue to be patient.” 29:36

“It’s okay to be your own best friend and your own company.” 32:59

Guest Bio - From LA Rams Cheerleader to NFL Sideline Reporter, Soap Opera Star to Chief Investigative Reporter on Inside Edition—Lisa is a WARRIOR!!  She has won over 35 national journalism awards and honors for her work.  Lisa details the ups and downs—and how to navigate the minefields she encountered along the way-- in her new book Warrior:  My Path to Being Brave

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:34 - Introducing Lisa Guerrero

3:26 - Talk to Us About Your Journey

5:49 - Four Keys to Being Brave 

7:52 - Expectation Vs. Reality Throughout Your Journey

9:55 - MB Family Law Commercial

11:00 - Advice for Young Women to Stay Strong Against Misogyny 

12:08 - The Application of Bravery in Divorce

17:23 - Being Vulnerable & Having A Support System

23:29 - Be Better Media Commerical

26:39 - What Advice Would You Give to Young, 8 Year Old Lisa?

29:57 - Advice to A Woman Who Feels Stuck in Her Relationship

31:31 - A Brave Step for the Woman Contemplating Divorce

33:54 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Lisa - 

Autographed copies of WARRIOR: MY PATH TO BEING BRAVE are available at www.LisaGuerrero.com   

Twitter (X) - @4lisaguerrero

IG & Threads - @4lisaguerrero

FB & LinkedIn - Lisa Guerrero

“I say every divorce has its own personality.” 5:13

“That is a perfect term for it, acclimated to the abuse.” 11:40

“What’s the alternative if you don’t do these things that your attorney advises?  What are the consequences of not doing that?” 19:29

“There’s the ‘BIFF’ model which a lot of people use when it comes to communicating with your soon to be ex-spouse; brief, informative, friendly, and fair.” 20:41

“Pretend a judge is reading everything that you write.” 22:39

“What we say, we do, and what we do, we become.” - Ann @ 39:33

Guest Bio - Jackie is a High-conflict divorce coach and host of the Podcast, Out of Crazytown: Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist. Jackie is passionate about raising awareness around narcissistic abuse in the family court system and has become an expert in Post Separation Abuse. Jackie uses her knowledge and expertise to help others as they brave the treacherous waters of divorce and custody battles as well as to help them look forward to a brighter future. After going through her own high-conflict divorce, Jackie knew she had to help others going through this difficult journey. Jackie is a mom to two teenage daughters and lives in the Los Angeles area. 

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro

0:34 - Introducing Divorce Coach, Jackie Miller

1:50 - What is a High Conflict Divorce Coach?

3:36 - Control Mechanisms & Your Personal Experience

7:22 - Advice on Coping with a Narcissistic Spouse During Divorce 

13:31 - Paralyzed with Fear

16:46 - MB Family Law Commercial

17:42 - Advice for Women Who May Feel Scared & Stuck

19:41 - Using Communication Tools to Navigate Relationships with Narcissists

24:29 - Coparenting Versus Parallel Parenting

27:21 - The Narcissist Has Zero Regard for Collateral Damage

29:59 - Be Better Media Commercial

35:57 - What Did You Feel When You Finalized Your Divorce?

36:25 - The Power Statement is Your Mantra

40:06 - What Did You Learn from Your Divorce?

40:44 - What Would You Do Differently with Your Children if You Went Through Your Divorce Again?

41:35 - Number One Piece of Advice to Women Divorcing a Narcissist

42:11 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Jackie - 

IG:  @outofcrazytown

YouTube:  @outofcrazytown

TikTok: @outofcrazytown

“I think journaling is an incredibly healing thing that we can undertake.” 4:40

“Deal with things as they are, not as we’d like them to be.” -Ann @ 7:37

“Addiction is really just a disconnection with ourself.” 8:40

“People are doing the best they can with what they know, but it’s our responsibility to know more so you have to keep learning.” 10:34

“The financial part is scary no matter what.” 20:32

“Parenting them through the hard stuff is actually what makes parenting great.” 26:21

“Two houses, they can be different and it can be okay.” 37:49

“You don’t have to be so worried about controlling or losing power in these situations with your children.  They are going to go where the love is.” -Ann @ 40:42

“Don’t make it about yourself.” 42:10

“Let your kids be who they are.” 44:33

Guest Bio - Wendy Jones is the founder of Be Better Media and host of her

own podcast, What I Meant to Say.  As a mother of four, she is

passionate about generational healing--so that we can connect

with each other and create families and communities from a place

of strength. The stories told through her work at Be Better Media

encourage each of us to listen more and judge less on our path to

self-awareness. In her spare time, you will find her at the beach

playing volleyball and enjoying her yoga practice. 

Show Notes - 

0:00 - Welcome to Divorce Hacker 

0:33 - Introducing Wendy Jones

1:15 - What is Generational Healing?

2:48 - Tools to Implement During Divorce

8:32 - How Addiction Can Impact Generational Healing

13:25 - Support Systems & Therapy

18:03 - Single Motherhood with Four Children

19:02 - MB Family Law Commerical

26:29 - How Are Your Kids Now?

31:39 - People Pleasing Discussion

38:22 - The Art of Letting Go of Control 

44:42 - Social Media & Battling Outside Opinions

45:03 - Be Better Media Commercial

51:48 - Helping Your Kids Find & Connect to Their Passions

57:52 - Three Questions

59:40 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing

For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/

Links & Where to Find Wendy - 

www.bebettermedia.tv

www.bebetter.life

Facebook - Be Better Media & Wendy Jones

Linkedin - Wendy Jones

Twitter - @bebetterwwj   

IG & Tiktok - @bebettermedia.life

Youtube - @bebettermedia.life1