The reason I wanted to speak to Kelly in the context of “women without kids,” is that it seems obvious to me that living with mother hunger can’t NOT have an impact on how one feels about becoming a mother, or about the experience of being a mother after having had a child. In  the episode we discuss:

-Kelly’s definition of “mother hunger” and how she came up with the term.

-Why 50% of the population experience mother hunger and how it manifests in issues around food and love.

-What causes mother hunger - and why this is often the result of an epigenetic inheritance.

-Why structural issues make it harder for mothers and babies to bond - and the lifelong attachment issues that can result from this.

-How mother hunger impacts our procreative choices and how we may feel about becoming mothers ourselves.

-The links between mother hunger, anorexia, and being “a-reproductive” (i.e. having no desire to reproduce).

-The impact of a lack of paid parental leave on mother hunger

-Why choosing not to have a child can be the most “loving” choice if we are aware that our capacity to mother is being compromised.

-Why our materialistic, consumer culture is just another substitute mother - and a way we seek to soothe our mother hunger.

Learn more about Kelly and her work HERE and check out Mother Hunger HERE.

You can get your copy of Women Without Kids: The Revolutionary Rise of an Unsung Sisterhood HERE. 

-Why the themes of ambition, success, and money are at the heart of HBOs Industry – and how these themes manifest in various addictions among the characters

-Choosing what we worship, and what happens when we put our faith in external things to make us feel safe, secure, happy, and whole

-Why  recreational drug and alcohol use is so normalized – and how it morphs into more problematic use, especially in high pressure industries

-The individual drivers behind the culture of “success addiction” and “never enough” depicted in the show

-The role of childhood wounds in our self-destructive adult behaviors

-The transactional nature of the sex depicted in the show, and what this says about the characters’ lack of capacity for connection and vulnerability

-Dating apps being the crack cocaine of courtship – and the role of this in an addictive hookup culture

-The motivations for two of the characters getting sober in Season 2, and their different approaches to their sobriety

-The complexity of human nature, and how our “worst selves” often come out when we are feeling vulnerable and afraid

-The role of art in helping us develop self-compassion for our less palatable actions and behaviors

-Two key lines from the show that encapsulate our modern culture of excess 

Seasons One and Two of Industry are streaming now on HBO. You can follow along on Instagram @industryhbo for updates.

Big thank you to Ghia for partnering on this episode. Get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com where you can get  $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS.

-Their experiences with food addiction in childhood – related to food insecurity in the home

-Starting to abuse alcohol in tandem with coming into their bi-sexuality

-Toggling between different addictions to manage different situations and emotional challenges

-Discovering and enacting their own “harm reduction” approach to substance abuse

-The role of codependency in dysfunctional families – and why this is especially prevalent in migrant and other marginalized communities

-The prevalence of alcohol and other drugs in queer spaces as a way of numbing out internalized homophobia and transphobia

-Their work creating sober circles and spaces for healing in the QTBIPOC space

-The value of ritual, spell-work, and other forms of spiritual practice in sobriety

-Healing from intergenerational trauma – and the role of substance abuse in numbing the pain of the past

-What it means to live a “full spectrum” life – and why this concept can be frightening for people

-The value of boundaries when it comes to embracing fluidity 

Learn more about Goddexx and their work HERE and follow them on Instagram @iamgoddexx. 

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode. Get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com where you can get  $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS.

Thanks also to  Curious Elixirs.  Purchase directly online at Curiouselixirs.com where you can use the code RUBY22 for $10 off any order worth $50 or more. 

-How her upbringing in France informed her drinking choices in later life

-How the drinking culture in France differs from that in the UK and US

-Cutting out alcohol to try to diagnose her stomach issues – and discovering how good it felt not to drink

-Why not drinking is integral to her success as an entrepreneur 

-Why taking a month off booze isn’t really enough to experience all the benefits of living alcohol-free

-The prophetic conversation that led to her coming up with the concept for Ghia

-Her go-to drink when there is no Ghia on the menu

-The social value of European “Aperitivo” culture - and why we don’t need alcohol to enjoy it

-Not providing options for non-drinkers as a form of social discrimination

-Why she has over-invested in getting Ghia into hospitality venues and the long-term vision attached to this

-Being “sober curious” with cigarettes and coffee

-Her experiences of the “Cali Sober” scene in LA

Follow Melanie on Instagram @melaniemasarin and get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com, where you can get $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS.

Big thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get your brews at Athleticbrewing.com and use the code RUBY20 to receive 20% off your online order of any beer or Daypack sparking water products. 

-Jason’s drinking history and what led to him getting sober curious

-How Buddhist ideas and practices have influenced his relationship with alcohol

-The conversation with his father than helped his sober curiosity stick

-Having a lot of “drunken poets” as his early heroes, and letting go of his romantic associations with booze

-How a culture of “survivalism” has been passed down the generations, and different generations’ responses to this

-What the show Euphoria shows us about shifting motivations for substance use and abuse

-The role that alcohol and other substances played in his relationship with his sister, and in her death in 2015

-Medicating our grief – for both the people and the things we have lost, and the things we fear we will never be able to have

-Self-discipline as both punishment and liberation – and the role of “friendly curiosity” in supporting healthy new habits

-The Buddhist concept of “the middle way,” and why it’s so hard to achieve this – through moderation – with a substance like alcohol

Learn more about Jason and his work HERE, get your copy of Humanity is Trying HERE, and listen to the Clever Creature podcast HERE.

Big thanks to Ghia and Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get your Ghia at DrinkGhia.com and get $10 off your first online order with the code CURIOUS. Order your Athletic brews at Athleticbrewing.com and  use the code RUBY20 to receive 20% off your online order of any beer or Daypack sparking water products. 

-An overview of attachment theory – and how our relationship with our early caregivers wires our attachment style

-How an inability to trust and connect with others can be traced back to how our nervous system formed in infancy

-Why we become “attached” to certain substances, behaviors, and people, when we are detached from ourselves

-Why so many people experience insecure attachment – whether this is expressed in “anxious” or “avoidant” tendencies

-Why addictive behaviors are only a symptom of underlying distress – which often has its roots in attachment issues 

-The meaning of “dis-regulation” and how we learn to reach outside of ourselves to regulate our nervous system

-Why a state of relaxation and ease can feel so alien to us when we are used to being dis-regulated

-Why workaholism and “overdoing” are so prevalent as ways of avoiding states of inner distress

-The chemical reaction that makes some people more vulnerable to “love addiction”

-Where codependency and love addiction overlap

-Why healthy conflict is what builds intimacy in relationships – and how being conflict averse can enable destructive behaviors

-The journey from “selfless” to “self-full” as a way to become more secure in our attachments

-Why it’s normal and okay to “self-medicate” and how to discover what are safe medicators for us

Get your copy of Anxiously Attached HERE and follow Jessica on Instagram @jessicabaumlmhc

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode. You can get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com - where you can also use the code CURIOUS to get $10 off your first online order.

-When everyday consumption morphs into compulsive spending or shopping addiction

-Why compulsive shopping is not the same as over-spending or regularly getting into debt

-The physical sensations that could show shopping has become a problem

-Why shopping addiction is not taken as seriously as substance abuse 

-How our desire to be loved and accepted plays into shopping addiction

-Growing up in a consumer culture – and equating spending and being bought stuff with “love”

-How consumer culture has changed in the decade following the 2008 financial crash – and become more targeted and insidious 

-How Avis addressed her shopping addiction – and the one time it has back come up in her life

-The psychology of “pandemic shopping”

-Why shopping too much, along with working too much, is often celebrated under capitalism – and the negative consequences of both

-The link between compulsive spending and body image issues

-The impact of social media on our spending habits

You can get your copy of Spent: Memoirs of a Shopping Addict by Avis Cardella HERE.

Big thanks and shout out to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. You can order online at Athleticbrewing.com and use the code RUBY20 to receive 20% off your online order of any beer or Daypack sparking water products. 

-Swan’s sober story – and how her drinking found her living a secret double life

-The book that made her realize it was time for her to quit

-Why everybody is sober curious before they get sober serious

-Why she decided to write a fictionalized account of somebody’s sober curious journey

-Reading and daydreaming as a healthy escape – and another way to dissociate 

-Why total abstinence equals freedom from our addictions

-Whether there is any such thing as an “addictive personality” – and the factors driving our compulsive behaviors

-Why the themes of perfectionism and control are very much tied to addictive behaviors

-The concept of “keeping your side of the street clean” as it pertains to sobriety

-The process of letting go of thoughts, beliefs, and resentments that are keeping us stuck in the past

-The trap of using alcohol to unlock inspiration– and finding the courage to create sober 

Learn more about Swan Huntley and her work HERE, get your copy of Getting Clean with Stevie Green HERE, and follow her on IG @swanhuntley

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode.  You can get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com - where you can use the code CURIOUS to get $10 off your first online order

-How his experiences of going clubbing sober led to him setting up his sober dance party, Reprieve

-How he kept the party going during Covid – and how it became a place for people to release tension and find hope

-The therapeutic value of music and dancing when it comes to our mental health

-Why dancing sober can be so intimidating – and how to overcome your shyness on the dance floor

-Hanzi’s journey to sobriety – and why alcohol was the last substance he got around to giving up

-Why problem drinking sometimes doesn’t look like “problem drinking” – and why sobriety isn’t just for alcoholics 

-How “partying” comes to be equated with getting high, and how to reclaim our right to play

-The value of creating a more mainstream conversation about mental health, alcoholism, and addiction

-How making time for FUN can fight fatigue and fuel us in our fight for a most just and equal world

Learn more about Hanzi and Reprieve HERE and follow along on Instagram @djhanzi and @reprieveparty

Big thanks to Curious Elixirs for partnering on this episode! Ship online at curiouselixirs.com where you can use the code RUBY22 for $10 off any order worth $50 or more. 

-Why discovering cocaine was what finally led to Jayne quitting drinking

-Why it was the hangovers – not the drinking – that became the reason she had to quit

-The dangers of being a high-functioning addict

-Jayne using booze to self-medicate her undiagnosed ADHD symptoms

-Why both alcoholism and ADHD are said to run in families – and whether this is about genetics or learned behaviors

-Not doing well in school and drinking being something Jayne could be “good at” in her teens

-Why ADHD symptoms sometimes look like PTSD

-Dealing with the shame, disappointment, and irritation of being neurodivergent in a neurotypical world

-How Jayne's ADHD traits have helped drive her business success

-Jayne's thoughts on ADHD medication given her history with addiction

-Why we are seeing a spate of mid-life ADHD diagnoses – among women in particular

You can learn more about Jayne and her work, and purchase her digital  haircutting courses, HERE, and follow her on Instagram @jayne_edosalon

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode.  You can get your Ghia at Drinkghia.com - where you can use the code  CURIOUS to get $10 off your first online order.

I could relate personally to so much of what she described in her piece, in which she compared her relationship with social media with her alcohol addiction. The essay also came out around the time that reports surfaced linking social media use to negative mental health outcomes, among young girls in particular, and it seemed to me like it was part of a much larger, and ongoing conversation about how we navigate our lives online in a healthy way.

As I was researching my questions for this interview, the parallels between social media and a substance like alcohol became clearer and clearer – and we get into all of that, along with what happened when her agent and publisher gently suggested that she get back on Instagram for the sake of her career. In the episode we discuss: 

-The highs and lows of social media addiction.

-Moderating social media the way we used to moderate alcohol. 

-Why both social media and alcohol capitalize on our need to be validated and fit in.

-Why it hurts so much to be unfollowed – and why we feel ashamed for caring about this.

-How the advent of the personal brand was enabled by social media – while simultaneously shaping how we use these platforms

-The impact on our mental health of constantly micro-managing our online personas.

-How social media create a climate of constant competition with one another.

-Why there is no such thing as being 100% “authentic” on social media.

-What makes some people more susceptible to social media having a negative impact on them.

-Finding other spaces to have more complex, nuanced, and thought-provoking conversations.

Read Laura's NYT essay HERE, learn more about her work HERE. Laura's podcast is Tell Me Something True.

And big thank you to amazing folks at bonbuz for partnering on this episode. You can order directly at bonbuz.com - and get 10% off your order with the code RUBY10 when you click HERE

Probably the number one question I hear from people who are getting sober curious, is how will this affect my relationships. For most of us, regardless of our level of attachment to the substance itself, alcohol is part and parcel of our social lives. It’s there in our friendships, our families, our intimate partnerships, and our dating lives. So what happens when we remove it?

Definitely a lot more awareness of the people and the situations we feel comfortable with. Probably a few / a lot of changes to our social lives as a result. I wanted to talk to Mark about how to navigate all of this, and why we feel we need alcohol to connect with others in the first place.

This has  all been front and center of Mark's life since he quit drinking three years ago. In the episode we discuss:

-The impact of the Covid pandemic on our connections with others.

-What led to him getting sober curious three years ago - and the specific quote that set him on his path.

-Why we believe we need alcohol to connect with others - and what is really happening when we use booze socially.

-The social contracts that are often the foundation of our drinking choices.

-How being raised Catholic impacted his early intimate relationships.

-Going through his first sober breakup.

-His experience of being "Cali-sober" and why this didn't work for him.

-The power of learning to sit with painful emotions.

-What his time working in Big Pharma taught him about the Western approach to health and wellbeing.

Learn more about Mark and his work HERE and follow him on Instagram @createthelove.

And big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order

It has always struck me that substance abuse goes hand-in-hand with unhealthy – or what is often termed “toxic” - masculinity. Alcohol especially can enable a three-dimensional caricature of what it means to “be a man”- aggressive, violent, sexually entitled – that causes so much harm in the world, and I knew that Aubert – who has a background of addiction and recovery would be the perfect person to speak to this.

Our conversation goes to some deep, vulnerable, and incredibly inspiring places. In the episode we discuss:

-Discovering substances as a teen growing up in a deeply dysfunctional home

-How our “emotional inheritance” can manifest in self-destructive behaviors

-The impact of having an absent father on his sense of self as a masculine being

-The “magical awakening” that led to him finally getting sober

-Why spirituality is an essential component of recovery – and why organized religion is another form of patriarchy 

-The definition of a “sober masculinity”: responsible, mature, emotionally intelligent, and protective

-Seeking personal power vs. power over others

-Gravitating towards men’s consciousness raising work as part of his own journey of self-discovery

-What we are really seeking when we reach for alcohol and other drugs

-The concept of brotherhood and reclaiming the word “bro”

-What he plans to teach his sons about alcohol and other substances

Learn more about Aubert and Sacred Sons HERE and follow along on Instagram @aubertbastiat and @sacredsons

I’ve wanted to have a conversation about how eating disorders fit into the landscape of addiction and recovery for a long time, partly because of my personal history with anorexia. It was only while writing Sober Curious that I became fully aware that this is absolutely a part of my addiction story. But I had shied away from talking about it publicly as, a) I feel a lot of shame about having been anorexic, and b) I know what a controversial and potentially triggering subject this can be.

Then I started to do some more research, and I discovered that 50% of individuals with eating disorders also abuse alcohol or other drugs, a rate five times higher than the general population. Which I think is significant enough that we can’t not talk about it. In the episode we discuss:

-What makes eating disorders and addictions very similar - and very different

-How all eating disorders develop as  ways to dissociate and manage difficult feelings

-Why we live in a “hostile recovery environment” when it comes to both eating disorders and alcohol abuse

-Why people with eating disorders often present as very “high functioning” - and how this can hinder intervention

-Why there is such a huge overlap between substance abuse and eating disorders

-The racist, ableist roots of diet culture and fat phobia

-The link between eating disorders and ADHD medication - and how this can be safely managed

-The prevalence of orthorexia - an addiction to healthy / clean eating

-Why our relationship to food often mirrors our relationships with people

-What attachment theory can tell us about disordered eating

-Why self-acceptance—not self-love—is the key to healing body image issues

Learn more about Jayne Mattingly and her work HERE, support her And initiative HERE, and follow her on Instagram @recoveryloveandcare

And big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order

Khadi was raised in a strict Muslim household, and alcohol was not part of her world growing up. But within hours of arriving at college, she had her first drink – and so began her career as a heavy binge drinker. She shares the specific solution that alcohol provided for her: it was a way to put down the high-achieving, perfectionist tendencies that she developed as a kid to mask the impact of her abusive childhood.

As well as hearing her personal story, I wanted to learn from Khadi about the specific challenges of Black women in sobriety – and we get into topics such as the myth of the Black superwoman, and why AA tends to be so white, and why creating more inclusive sober spaces is not always the answer. In the episode we discuss:

-Becoming a high achiever in school to mask the impact of her traumatic childhood

-The immediate relief she felt on taking her first drink at college

-Perusing a career in law – and what makes this a heavy-drinking profession

-Why early intervention can prevent people from developing more serious substance use disorders

-Why alcohol addiction is often not spoken about openly among the Black community

-Being the only Black person at the rehab facility she went to, and why this is so common

-Why it takes so long for high functioning addicts to get the help they need

-Her experience of AA – and why she knew this program would never work for her

-Why it was having no more goals to reach for that tipped her into addiction

-Mental health conversations in the black community

-Why Black women’s self-worth is so tied up with being busy and helping others

-Why race is integral to both the causes of and recovery from addiction

-What’s in her Sober Black Girls recovery toolkit – and why creating SBG has been part of this

Learn more about Khadi and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @soberblackgirlsclub

And big thanks to Lyres and Three Spirit for partnering on this episode!

Discover Lyres non-alcoholic spirits at Lyres.com and visit lyres.com/sobercurious to sign up for a special 15% discount code. You can also follow along on Instagram and find more recipes @lyresspiritco.

OrderThree Spirit botanical elixirs at Threespiritdrinks.com and get 15% off your online order with the code RUBY. Find them on IG @threespiritdrinks

Shain was the first person to ever show up at a Sober Curious writers group I used to host, and he found my work having been searching for ways to think about quitting drinking that actually spoke to him. He has gone on to use a “harm reduction” approach to addressing his alcohol and drug abuse, and he explains here what this has looked like in his life.

The thing I love about Shain's attitude is that he is all about being gentle with yourself, being patient, and giving yourself the compassion that you need as you figure this stuff out. in the episode we discuss: 

-His experience of growing up in a bar (the family business) and how this shaped his approach to drinking

-Being drawn to bar and club culture because it felt like “home”

-Alcohol as a form of “therapy” for people who don’t have access to mental health services

-Choosing not to judge his past behavior – and how all our experiences make us who we are

-Different substances he’s used and the different impact they have had on him

-Asking: who am I without booze? And who do I want to be?

-Being a “party person” as part of his professional persona

-Why it takes time, trial, and error to find your way as a non-drinker

-The difference between being an alcoholic and somebody who sometimes abuses alcohol

-Why confronting his childhood trauma was the only way to address his substance abuse

-Why sobriety is easier than moderation (and why moderation never really works)

-Why navigating shame has been a foundational piece of his sober curious journey

You can connect with Shain in the "Sober Curious Book" Facebook group and follow him on Instagram @shainoffools

Big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order

And shout out to Curious Elixirs for supporting also. Order at Curiouselixirs.com and  get $10 off orders over $50 with the code RUBY22

We also cover the unique challenges of being a non-drinker during a global pandemic, finding new ways to manage stress, why Mia recently archived all her old Instagram posts, and how one of the biggest gifts of removing alcohol has been greater self-acceptance.  In the episode we discuss: 

-Her reason for quitting drinking six years ago – and how this has evolved

-Why she no longer describes herself as “sober” and prefers the term “non-drinker”

-How the real work of “sobriety” begins after you have removed the booze

-Working as a nurse during the pandemic and having to find new ways to cope with stress

-The practice of “yoga nidra” – and how this helps her regulate her nervous system 

-Why using THC to help her sleep is not the same as being “Cali-Sober”

-Why intention counts for so much when creating new behaviors around alcohol

-The discomfort – and honesty – of undergoing big personal changes as a “public figure” 

-The responsibility that comes with being an “influencer” and how important it is to retain integrity with what we’re sharing online

-How deciding to stop dying her hair went hand-in-hand with her quitting drinking

-Why the pandemic has helped us identify and prioritize what we want to keep in our lives

-Why her current focus as a non-drinker is how she shows in for her relationships

-The work it takes to maintain our friendships and the value of nurturing our IRL connections 

-Why it’s more important to be authentic than to try to be “for everyone”

Learn more about Mia and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @thesoberglow

And big thanks to Lyres and Three Spirit for partnering on this episode!

Discover Lyres non-alcoholic spirits at Lyres.com and visit lyres.com/sobercurious to sign up for a special 15% discount code. You can also follow along on Instagram and find more recipes @lyresspiritco.

OrderThree Spirit botanical elixirs at Threespiritdrinks.com and get 15% off your online order with the code RUBY. Find them on IG @threespiritdrinks

Her book is a deep dive into the dopamine function of the brain, and she spells out exactly what is happening biologically whenever we reach for a drink, a pill, a smoke, a tweet, another person or whatever it is for us, in an attempt to tip the balance towards pleasure and away from pain. Thanks to the combination of consumerism and technology, she argues that we must resource ourselves to remain resistant to the addictive impulses that are constantly being triggered.

Anna’s book is packed with real life examples of people working through their addictions to anything and everything – and it provides fascinating insights into how to disrupt and reset the reward function of the brain. In the episode we discuss:

-How Anna came to work in the field of addiction – and why she finds this branch of the medical professional uniquely fulfilling

-Her definition of a “spiritual solution” to addiction

-Why almost everything in our dopamine saturated ecosystem is “drugified” 

-Why it’s possible to get addicted to almost anything that tips us towards pleasure and away from pain

-What makes some people more vulnerable to addiction

-Why prohibition does and doesn’t work

-Why in an age of hyper-consumerism we must actively resist over-consumption

-Why high rates of anxiety and depression are linked to the constant “comedown” of living in a pleasure-saturated world

-Why doing hard things helps us build mental, emotional, and spiritual muscle

-The value of “pro-social” shame when it comes to positive behavior change

-Our mutual email obsession – and how we are both working with this

-How the concepts of “dopamine fasting” and “self-binding” can help us reset 

-Her views on moderation – and what must happen first before we can even consider this approach

Get your copy of Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke MD HERE

Big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order

And shout out to Curious Elixirs for supporting also. Order at Curiouselixirs.com and  get $10 off orders over $50 with the code RUBY22

I’ve been very curious about how people working in the alcohol industry at large are responding to the emerging sober curious or alt sobriety space. I sometimes picture people at the big booze brands sitting around, scratching their heads trying to figure out how to keep people drinking. Although, let’s be real, they are selling a highly addictive drug that is the most socially acceptable way to medicate out existential pain, so it’s not like alcohol is going anywhere fast.

But this conversation with David made me believe that, if nothing else, there being more and more alcohol-free options on menus makes it easier for people to choose something else rather than just drinking because it’s what everyone else is doing.

We also talk about the components that come together to make a really “good drink,” the future of alcohol-free wine, and how conversations about addiction are evolving among hospitality industry professionals. In the episode we discuss:

-The heavy drinking culture in Australia—and how this is changing radically

-Realizing it is just good business to give non-drinkers better options on a menu

-The toll that daily drinking takes when it’s part of your job

-How the sober curious movement has made it easier to talk about addiction within the booze industry

-How he went about creating non-alcoholic versions of all the classic spirits – and why tequila has the hardest flavor to replicate

-What makes a really “good drink” – and how to begin experimenting on your own at home

-Why the alcohol-free space wine has been so hard to crack and the latest developments in this area

-The ripple effect of him getting involved in non-alcoholics among his family and friends

-More people selecting their hospitality venues based on their zero-proof offerings

Learn more about David Murphy and Lyres new Agave Spirit non-alcoholic tequila blend HERE.

And big thank you to Avec for partnering on this episode—who make elevated mixers that are perfect for pairing with your favorite alcohol-free spirits. Find them at Avecdrinks.com where you can get 10% off online orders with the code "SoberCuriousPod"

My guest this week is the author and motivational speaker, Sylvester McNutt III. I met Sylvester when I was a guest on his podcast, Free Your Energy, and as soon as we signed off that day, I knew I wanted to have him on here to continue the conversation.

I explain why as the recording gets going, so you’ll hear about that in a few moments. But his Sober Curious journey aside, I also wanted to have Sylvester on as his work speaks directly to what is such a key piece of this path: how, where, and why am I directing my energy, and what am I either inviting into my life or preventing myself from experiencing as a result.

With his writing, he spreads the message that “healing is the key to success.” And, yes, our relationship to alcohol and other substances is a part of this. I’m just going to leave this here and get right into it. In the episode we discuss:

-His first Sober Curious birthday – and how he made his decision whether or not to drink

-His drinking history and how his relationships to alcohol has evolved over the years

-His idyllic experience of early family life as a child – and the incident that changed everything

-How his parents’ drinking shaped his feelings about booze

-How removing alcohol has impacted his male friendships

-How to “Free Your Energy” - and why getting conscious about your drinking is part of this

-Why he never gave in to peer pressure to drink during high school – and why he started drinking in college

-Why he decided to get Sober Curious after becoming a father himself

-How removing alcohol has impacted his relationship with his partner

-What it means to live a “purposeful” life – and why alcohol now has no purpose in his life

-Why shame is so prevalent in our society and how to move beyond living from low self-esteem

-His go-to healing practices and why community is such a big part of this

-Why he’d rather be alone than engage in “fake” friendships – and how to keep it real with the people we love

Sylvester McNutt III is an author and host of the Free Your Energy podcast. Learn more about his work HERE and follow him on Instagram @sylvestermcnutt

Big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order.

Shout out also to  Curious Elixirs alcohol-free cocktails. Order online at Curiouselixirs.com—where you can also get $10 off orders over $50 with the code RUBY22.

Now, I know this topic might be a bit “out there” for some of you. But I am confident that whatever your interest in or thoughts about astrology, you will find plenty that you can relate to in our conversation, while having your mind blown just a little bit along the way.

Ultimately, Bess and I use astrology less as a divination tool for “predicting” future events – and more as a language of symbols to describe the more numinous, or unknowable and unnamable, aspect of being human. That is, the part of being human that we are often attempting to either run towards or away from when we are reaching for alcohol and other drugs.

We get into how we can use astrology for self-awareness – and as a way of looking at our addictive tendencies. We also go into some specific astrological teachings that listeners can apply to their own lives and Bess shares the details of how she came to be sober curious herself. 

PS: this conversation was originally recorded as part of Sober Voices Flow. In the episode we discuss:

-Bess’s own journey with substance abuse and her current relationship with alcohol

-How astrology and alcohol have served a similar purpose in her life – but both with different outcomes

-How astrology can help connect us to the concept of a “higher power” 

-The concepts of “fate” and “free will” and when to accept life as it is and when to take control

-How knowing your astrological birth chart can help you understand who you are and what you need

-Being guided by our feelings as much as our thoughts

-A primer on how to read your astrological birth chart – and why we all contain all the astrological “signs”

-Specific examples of how to use astrology on your sober curious path

-Why life gives us friction and challenges to work with in order to help us grow

-How astrology can help us understand individual differences in terms of values and needs

-How current astrological transits are shaping thinking about addiction and mental health

Bess Matassa is an astrologer and the author of The Numinous Cosmic Year – a total, interactive guide to the astrology of 2022. Learn more about Bess and her work HERE and use the code COSMICMOCKTAL for 20% off a personal reading with Bess. 

I don’t know about all of you, but closing out 2021 I have been feeling the impact of 18 months of social distancing. The past few months, I’ve found myself questioning who my real friends are; whether I’ve been a good enough friend to people; and what kinds of friendships I want to invest in going forward.

This process has reminded me a lot of how it can feel navigating your new social landscape after you quit drinking. One of the biggest questions I hear people asking when they get Sober Curious is: am I going to lose all my friends? And, well, Kate also celebrated 10 years of sobriety this year – and so she is perfectly placed to speak to this. 

We also talk about why friendship is so important, why these relationships are often devalued compared to family and romantic ties, and how we can all be better friends to one another. In the episode we discuss:

-The value and importance of friendship – and why these relationships are often not valued the same as family and romantic partners

-Why strong friendships are a vital part of affecting social change

-Reevaluating her friendships, and relearning how to make new friends, after she quit drinking

-A Buddhist approach to relationships and the notion of “spiritual friendships”

-How her meditation and yoga practice have helped access states of calm in sobriety

-How removing alcohol helped her address underlying mental health issues 

-Why sobriety helps you get real with yourself – so you can be more real with others

-Working with our “persistent visitors” (anxiety, repetitive thoughts and fears etc.) rather than trying to numb them out

-Kate’s definition of “freedom” and how we can begin to liberate ourselves and each other from suffering

-Seeing friendship as a source of joy and turning towards this in times of suffering

-Why friendship is an activity – and how we can be proactive about centering friendship in our lives

Kate Johnson is a spiritual teacher and author of Radical Friendship. Learn more about her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @hellokatejohnson.

Big thanks to Grüvi for partnering on this episode. Order at Getgruvi.com and use the code “Sobercurious10” to get 10% off your first online order.

Bill has been a major player in spearheading the rapidly expanding non-alcoholic space and in this episode he shares his own sober curious journey, what led him to quitting drinking completely nine years ago, and the story behind how he quit his job and took the leap into the entrepreneurial space.

Along the way, we touch on some really interesting points that help to join the dots between the competitive, high-performance culture that underpins so much of American life, and the dominant drinking culture here. Bill also shares some surprising statistics about the way Americans drink, and the impact of problem drinking on a micro and a macro level.

He also shares about the wider mission of Athletic and how his own sobering up has led to a personal commitment to being a positive force for change. In the episode we discuss:

-How having more access to information about our health and wellbeing has been a major factor in more people getting sober curious.

-Why non-drinking is far more widespread than we think – and the role advertising plays in normalizing excessive drinking.

-His own Sober Curious journey, and why he decided to quit drinking completely nine years ago.

-Choosing not to drink as part of a high-performance lifestyle – and how alcohol creates a false ceiling in our lives that we don’t realize is there until we quit.

-How cutting out booze sparked his intellectual curiosity, leading to the years of research he put into the launch of Athletic.

-Using alcohol to manage stress and to mask the emotional pain of losing his mom at age 18.

-How addressing his own misperceptions about drinking helped him feel more comfortable with his choice.

-The ripple-effect of quitting drinking – and how this often leads to friends and family reevaluating their relationships to alcohol.

-Why the craft brewing industry has been so slow to go alcohol-free - and why this is changing fast.

-The lasting impact of prohibition in the US and how this still impacts the way we drink today.

-The alternative ways he’s found to relax and unwind as a non-drinker (and how his social life really hasn’t changed).

Learn more about Bill and Athletic Brewing HERE.

Big thanks to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Get 15% off your order at Optimistdrinks.com with the code CURIOUS.

Adderall is a prescription drug, and one that enables certain traits that are celebrated in our society – such as productivity and thinness. Both factors that mean this is an addiction that often flies under the radar. In our conversation, Allie describes how it crept up on her, and how it came to completely take over her life to the point where she was barely sleeping or eating – while even she was in complete denial that she had a problem.

In many ways, Allie was the definition of a “high-functioning” addict. Having suffered from an eating disorder from a very early age, she is also brutally honest about the role that her body image issues played in her turning a blind eye to what she eventually came to realize would kill her if she didn’t find a way to quit.

Our conversation also pans out to look at the impossible standards of perfection that women in particular are asked to hold ourselves to – while labeling any inability to perform or keep it all together as a weakness. In the episode we discuss:

-Using Adderall in college to help with focus – and how this led to a daily, 10-year habit

-Why this drug is so popular – and this addiction so rampant - in a society that values productivity, perfectionism, and thinness 

-Why this is a drug that enables and personifies “high-functioning” addiction

-How easy it is to overlook addictions to legal and / or prescription drugs

-How a drug designed to help you focus actually creates total chaos

-What led to her “moment of clarity” about quitting – and the intense physical experience of detoxing from Adderall 

-Why her body image issues made it easier to love herself while she was in her addiction 

-The toxicity of “looking good” in a fat phobic, misogynistic, ableist society

-Maintaining her career as a mental health professional throughout her addiction

-Her definition of “trauma” – and why trauma and addiction go hand-in-hand

-How her addiction – and her sobriety – impacted her sexual expression

Learn more about Allie Lerner and her work at Allielerner.com

Big thank you to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Find them @optimistdrinks and get 15% off your order with the code CURIOUS at Optimistdrinks.com

Jamila lost her older sister to addiction coming up on three years ago at the time of recording, and I invited her on to talk about how she and her family coped with this loss. Many of us have experienced watching our loved ones struggle with addiction – as well as navigating the mental health issues that are often behind this – and have felt the pain of knowing that there is only so much we can ever do to help somebody who, for whatever reason, is unable to help themselves.

In this conversation, Jamila shares vulnerable truths about her journey with her sister. Along the way, we discuss the life events that can trigger addictive behaviors, the fine line between helping and enabling, the guilt and shame that can permeate families experiencing addiction, and how the grieving process has helped to inform her work and her mission in the wider world. In the episode we discuss: 

-Why siblings can have such different experiences with substance abuse – despite having the same upbringing and genetic imprints.

-The differences in how she and her sister processed the fallout from her parents’ divorce.

-Feeling like she lost her friend after her sister started drinking – and the impact of her sister’s using use on the wider family system.

-Drinking to enable extreme behavior and “act out” the feelings we can’t express in words.

-How her sister’s drinking progressed to harder drug use.

-The fine line between helping and enabling a person who is struggling.

-How the unexpected nature of her sister’s death – and how much harder this made it to grieve.

-How a person’s agency and the choices they make are compromised by addiction.

-How her Buddhist practices have helped her process and make sense of her sister’s death.

-How the hardest of times can help us flower and bloom in new ways.

-The importance of resourcing ourselves with rest, pleasure, and joy before we burn out. 

-Missing her sister the most in times of intense joy – and seeing the death of a loved one as a permission slip to live life to the fullest.

Discover more about Jamila and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @jamilareddy

Big thank you to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Find them @optimistdrinks and get 15% off your order with the code CURIOUS at Optimistdrinks.com

Given her extensive social media following, it’s very likely you are familiar with Nicole’s work—which has helped to democratize the field of psychotherapy. On her Instagram account, Nicole has made theories, tools, and practices for what she terms “self-healing” available and accessible to millions of people – and her new book, which is titled How to Do the Work, breaks down her approach to creating positive change in our live.

In this episode we talk about how this applies to being sober curious, and how part of the healing path is to reevaluate the impact of alcohol and other substances on our mental and emotional health.

Nicole also talks about her own journey with substances, and why it often feels easier to cling to what we know, even when it’s hurting us. She also beaks down in detail exactly what is happening in our brains when we reach for drink and other drugs to numb out, dissociate, or self-medicate.

Which is just a fraction of everything we cover in this episode, which was full of lightbulb moments for me. I hope you get as much out of it as I did. In the episode we discuss: 

-How she defines “the work” of healing ourselves.

-How we get stuck in the disconnect between “knowing better” and “doing better.”

-Discovering alcohol at age 13 to help her dissociate from the constant anxiety in her family home.

-Why shame is one of the most common reasons people use substances - and how the stigma of addiction only adds to this.

-How to replace whatever we are using to numb out with new tools to help us find a new path forward.

-How the inner changes we are working on create a ripple effect in the world – and the people - around us.

-Why we cling to what we know – even when it’s no longer serving us.

-Her expanded definition of childhood trauma – and how this creates repercussions throughout our lives.

-The specific reasons alcohol can be used to mask past trauma.

-The meaning of the term “self-regulation” – and why our substance use stems from a desire to regulate an agitated nervous system.

-How we can also get addicted to stress – and unconsciously seek out experiences to keep us in an activated state (especially on social media).

-Why getting conscious about everything we consume – from booze to news to social media – is part of our healing.

-AND SO MUCH MORE FASCINATING STUFF (including the importance of poop).

Get your copy of How To Do The Work HERE and follow her on Instagram.

Big thanks to Optimist Drinks for partnering on this episode. Find them on Instagram and get 15% off your order with the code CURIOUS at Optimistdrinks.com

Jessica’s and I met when were both promoting our first books four years ago. I had only just started speaking about being sober curious publicly and Jess was one of the first people I’d come across who had cut booze out of her life for health reasons – namely as part of the holistic protocol she had embraced to manage her endometriosis. 

For the unfamiliar, endometriosis is a chronic condition where the lining of the womb starts to grow on other organs of the body. It affects over 170 million people worldwide with sufferers experiencing excruciating pain—but it often goes undiagnosed for decades. It’s also the subject of Jess’s latest book, Know Your Endo – and we get into all the reasons why this is illness is so taboo in our interview.

As it pertains to being sober curious, the reality of endo is that there is no quick fix—just like there is no “off switch” when it comes to problematic drinking. We also discuss why many people living with chronic pain – whether physical, mental, or emotional – turn to substances to numb out, and how hard it can be to choose what we know is “good” for us when all we want is relief.

Most importantly, we talk about how to advocate for yourself and give yourself what you need – especially when the other people in your life may not understand where you’re experiencing. In the episode we discuss: 

-Growing up “Straight Edge” and choosing NOT to drink as an act of rebellion.

-Receiving mixed messages about alcohol in the home.

-Being introduced to booze as part of her career in the culinary world.

-What makes alcohol feel special – and why we associate drinking with elevated experiences.

-The prevalence and normalization of daily drinking on TV and in the media.

-Cutting alcohol out again to help manage her endometriosis. 

-The mental health impact of living with chronic pain – and why it makes sense to want to numb out.

-Using cannabis medicinally – and questioning when this becomes too much of a crutch.

-Training your body to appreciate the long-term benefits of holistic healing methods over the instant relief of booze and pills.

-How changing your diet can impact your mental and emotional wellbeing.

-Why we want to believe in “quick-fixes” and why creating sustainable change always takes time.

Learn more about Jessica and her work HERE and get your copy of Know Your Endo HERE. You can also follow @jessicamurnane on Instagram.

Thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get 20% off your first order at Athleticbrewing.com with the code RUBY20.

I invited Diego on to talk about his new book, Clarity & Connection, which are two of the qualities which go hand in hand with being Sober Curious. What not so many people know, is that Diego quit all “intoxicants” many years ago, after hitting his own rock bottom with alcohol and other drugs – and that this has been an integral part of his career as a writer and deep meditator.

He shares all the details of his self-directed recovery in this episode, as well as personal details about how being sober curious and developing greater self-awareness and emotional intelligence has positively impacted every aspect of his life.

I think this might actually one of my all-time favorite episodes. As his readers will know, Diego has a unique ability to share deep spiritual truths in a way that makes them super accessible and our conversation was filled with aha moments for me. In the episode we discuss:

-Alcohol as one of the empty promises of consumer culture.

-His own background with substance abuse and when he decided to quit all drugs.

-Why an attachment to pleasure prevents us from addressing why we feel bad.

-Quitting alcohol and marijuana to deepen his meditation practice.

-Recovery as a process of uncovering our true self.

-Paying our recovery forward for the benefit of future generations.

-How deeper self-awareness leads to deeper connections with others.

-The process of letting go – and how not to throw more tension at our tension.

-Developing a neutral mind towards alcohol and other things we have developed attachments and aversions to.

-How sobriety and being on the spiritual path has impacted his relationship with his wife.

-How to navigate conflict in relationships – and how not to always need to be right.

-How he approaches his writing and his creative process.

Get your copy of Clarity & Connection by Diego Perez HERE and follow him on IG @yung_pueblo.

Big thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get 20% of your first order at Athleticbrewing.com with the code RUBY20

I asked her on the podcast, because she is also the original founder of Morning Gloryville, which was the first sober morning dance party when it launched back in 2013. Sam shares the origin story of what became a movement that helped millions of people

Since she moved on from that role, she been pretty involved in the activism scene and has also worked with all sorts of organizations, teams, and individuals to help bring the humanity and the creativity back into what they do.

For me Sam is the definition of a “free spirit” – and our conversation goes to some pretty wild and out there places. I encourage you to keep an open mind and heart while listening. I should also include a trigger warning – as about half-way through our interview, Sam shares why she decided to start drinking again after her years as a figurehead for sobriety. 

There’s also plenty of sex and general spiritual rock ‘n’ roll throughout, so it’s probably not one to listen to with your grandma. In the episode we discuss:

-Her role in the origin story of the original sober dance party, Morning Gloryville.

-Searching for ways to find pleasure, joy, and self-expression without substances.

-Bringing the “erotic” – our joyful life force energy – to everything we do.

-Her definition of “unapologetic living” – and how she came to focus on this in her life and work.

-How cancel culture has prevented people from feeling safe to express themselves.

-Seeing herself as a “soul” first and foremost - before any of the intersecting identities she embodies.

-Creating her own spiritual practices for moving stuck energy through her body – including “tree humping” (!!) and howling

-Getting back to the primal self and living beyond societal conditioning.

-Having the courage to live as ourselves - without judgement.

-Why it’s essential to resource yourself with community, nature, love, and other healing practices before you quit drinking.

-Having a glass of wine during lockdown – and her attitudes to drinking now.

-Why she thinks activism is dead – and creativity is the new activism.

Discover more about Sam and her work HERE and find all the details for her upcoming Creative Expansion Program HERE. You can also follow her on IG @mysticmoyo

Big thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Get 20% of your first order at Athleticbrewing.com with the code RUBY20

I first met Luke when I started attending all kinds of far out healing circles in the mid- 2010s, when he was known as one of the co-founders of the now sadly shuttered Maha Rose Center for the Healing Arts in Brooklyn. 

A sensitive and artistic soul, Luke’s work in the healing space led to him investigating ways to get high on his own supply – and in this episode we discuss why we use alcohol and other substances to get high, when there are so many other ways to access joy and lightness and high vibes. 

We also talk about the important of self-love and self-acceptance, which includes accepting our mistakes – subjects Luke unpacks in his memoir, Venus Juice, which tells the story of when he tried (and failed) to find love and make it as an Instagram healer in LA. In the episode we discuss:

-The “social experiment” of socializing sober.

-The aggressive nature of the drinking culture when you’re a sensitive person.

-Creating sober social spaces where people can feel safe to let loose.

-Shifting from wanting to check out and lose ourselves to actively trying to find ourselves.

-Drinking as a “get out of my responsibilities for free” card. 

-Healthy ways to lose control.

-Finding your sober friends and being accepted for who you are.

-“Laughter yoga”—and other ways to get high on your own supply.

-Why we think we need alcohol to have fun as grown-ups.

-How to keep reaching for “high vibes” without bypassing the realities of life.

-Looking for love in booze and other drugs – and how to love yourself.

-The importance of failing and making mistakes.

Get your copy of Luke's memoir, Venus Juice: When I Tried to Live in LA, HERE, and follow him on Instagram @lukesimon_mystic.

Thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. New customers can get 20% off your first order with the code RUBY20 at Athleticbrewing.com

I invited Jen on to talk about the meaning of harm reduction and why she is so passionate about this approach to treating substance abuse. She is very outspoken about why she believes the war on drugs is not working for anybody, and why we need to shift the focus to addressing the unresolved trauma that she believes is the root of all problematic drug use – and all houselessness. She also shares her own experience of living on the street – and how learning to advocate for herself is what led to her work in advocating for others who don’t have the capacity to stand up for themselves.

This interview is raw and moving and real and I hope you find it as eye-opening as I did. In the episode we discuss: 

-The definition of “harm reduction” when it comes to treating drug and alcohol misuse.

-Why alcohol is an example of “safe supply” (and the meaning of this term).

-Why being sober does not make us superior.

-The argument for decriminalization of all substances – and why drugs are winning the war on drugs.

-Why she stopped posting “before and after” pics and how she honors the person she was before she got sober.

-Why some lives are viewed as more valuable than others in our society.

-Why living in close proximity to houseless communities makes us so uncomfortable.

-Her personal experience of living on the streets.

-Why she believes that everybody experiencing substance abuse is a trauma survivor.

-Why the way we speak about people who are struggling is part of the solution.

-How sobriety helps her engage more deeply with her healing work – and the practices that work for her.

-Why she believes everybody should be trauma informed.

-Why there’s no such thing as being a perfect mom – and how to accept ourselves and our kids exactly as we are.

Discover more about Jen's work with The Sidewalk Project and Sober Mom Squad and follow her on Instagram @resurrektion_of _ me

Big thanks to Athletic Brewing for partnering on this episode. Place an order today at athleticbrewing.com and get free shipping on two six packs or more. New customers can also get 20% off their entire order with code RUBY20. Limited to one use per customer

This is the last show of the current season + it’s safe to say I’ve been feeling quite nervous about airing it!! After all, criticizing cancel culture, or even siding with other people who do, is a sure-fire way to get cancelled. But what I value about Clementine and Jay’s approach, is what they bring to it from their 12-step work – which puts a big emphasis on “keeping your side of the street clean.” 

This means living in integrity, taking responsibility for any past actions that may have caused harm and making the necessary amends. Which is the goal of many a cancellation, but this often gets lost in the fear-based feeding frenzies that we see erupting online - where the erasure of a specific individual can become a placeholder for the sustained and sensitive work of looking at why certain attitudes and behaviors persists and how this can be addressed at a systemic level. In the episode we discuss:

-The contrast between culture of shame and blame in some online social justice movements and the reparative amends-making of the 12-step program.

-Living in fear of being “found-out” for past bad behavior.

-How getting sober helps us live in integrity – and be the moral judge of our own behavior.

-What they term “the nexus” – and how it has enabled the rise of cancel culture. 

-The addictive nature of social media and online mob mentality – and what makes us susceptible to this.

-Why yelling at each other on the internet is not how we enact social change in the real world.

-Why cancel culture mimics the dynamics of an abusive relationship.

-How to build nervous system resilience so that we can engage in the difficult conversations that are necessary for progress.

-Why our political work should not be part of our personal brand – something we use to get more follows and likes (and sponsorship dollars).

-Why cancel culture is an outlet for an overwhelming sense of injustice, betrayal, and powerlessness about the state of the wider world.

-Why it’s impossible to change what somebody thinks by coercion – and how to model the change we want to see.

-The parallels between getting sober and opting out of cancel culture.

Listen to the F***ing Cancelled podcast on iTunes and Spotify, subscribe on Patreon, and follow @clementinemorrigan on Instagram. You can also learn more about Clementine and her writing HERE.

Big thanks to Three Spirit for partnering on this episode. Order online at www.threespiritdrinks.com and use the code SOBERCURIOUS to get 15% off.

Many people experience a surge in sugar cravings after they quit drinking, and so we get deep into what is up with that. But the majority of our interview focusses on Sarah’s new book, This One Wild and Precious Life, which basically details what happened after she sold her business, gave all the money to charity, and embarked on a quest to get to the bottom of our disconnection epidemic – which many would argue is really the root of all our addictions.

The book is a beautiful, inspiring, call to personal activism: what she calls our “appointment with life.” Given that the desire to remove alcohol so often stems from a sense that there is something missing from our life or something more out there waiting for us, I think anybody is sober curious will be able to relate. In the episode we discuss: 

-The clusterfuck of factors threatening this one “wild and precious life” in 2021.

-Why our personal and collective crises are an invitation to our appointments with life.

-What makes both sugar and alcohol so addictive – and why we often replace booze with sugar when we quit.

-The toxic effect both substances have on our body.

-How to fill the emotional void when we remove these substances.

-Sarah’s philosophy on where anxiety comes from, and how this feeds our addictions.

-Why getting out of our heads and finding ways to be of service the world is a “cure” for anxiety.

-Why walking and other vigorous forms of exercise dial down anxiety. 

-How we can “hike it out” even when we don’t have easy access to nature.

-The spiritual value of self-sacrifice – and the damage done by consuming too much “spiritualism lite.”

-Why spirituality and politics have to go hand-in-hand. 

-The meaning of the term “group soul” and how we can turn attune to this to foster connection.

Learn more about Sarah and her work HERE, get your copy of  This One Wild and Precious Life HERE, check out here new podcast WILD, and follow her on IG @_sarahwilson_

Big thank you to Three Spirit for partnering on this episode! You can order directly at www.threespiritdrinks.com - and get 15% off your order with the code SOBERCURIOUS

Now, I know I talk about race a lot on this podcast – and conversations like these might seem a little out of place here. But in my experience, the process of un-brainwashing ourselves about booze is very similar to the process of un-learning deeply in-grained racial prejudice – something we are all being called to in this era of momentous social change. In fact, we also discuss how racism is like the twin pandemic that we are fighting as a collective - and, as with COVID, the more we can all work together, the better.

Having quit drinking two years ago, Hakeem also has some great insights and advice about dating sober – especially in the pandemic, when people are having to get even more creative about how to meet people and connect. In the episode we discuss: 

-The backstory to him setting up the Anti-Racist Social Club.

-Why he’s on a mission to make talking about racism fun - by removing the guilt and the shame.

-Why anti-racism work is good for our mental health.

-How the process of recovering from racism mirrors the process of recovering from substance abuse.

-How substance abuse disproportionately impacts black and brown communities.

-Why we all do better when we all do better. 

-Hakeem’s sober curious journey – and how one Dry Jan led to him quitting completely (even though he never had a “rock bottom”).

-Why we often have to justify not putting poison (alcohol) in our bodies to others.

-Replacing having a drink to cope with hard times with seeking ways to feel connection.

-His approach to dating sober and how to make other people comfortable with your choice.

-Why social justice work is not an “us-versus-them” equation.

Learn more about Hakeem and his work HERE and follow @theantiracistsocial.club on Instagram.

Big thanks to Sapiens for partnering on this episode. Purchase their delicious 0.0% alcohol wine at Sapiensbeverage.com and get 10% off your order with the code SOBERCURIOUS.

I have worked personally with Shauna several times over the years, and not only has her work been hugely helpful for managing anxiety and burnout, the theory behind it completely fascinates me. We often have a negative view of hypnosis, thinking of it as being some sort of mind control, when actually it’s a way of taking back control of our own imagination to help ourselves get unstuck – one of the reasons it can be so helpful when addressing issues with addiction. 

In our conversation, we do an in-depth break down how this works, as well as discussing ways to access the well of inner resources that can help us get through the most challenging times – without having to reach outside of ourselves. In the episode we discuss:

-Why hypnosis can be helpful for addressing addiction – and why you have to want it to work.

-How to tap our own inner resources and help ourselves make the changes we want.

-Using self-hypnosis to access inner healing states.

-Why we spend most of our modern lives in a state of “trance” (and how social media capitalizes on this)

-Teaching herself to regulate her nervous system as a child.

-The difference between “fantasy” and “imagination”—and how the former becomes addictive.

-The “inner drug store” we can access when we learn how to manage our emotions and thoughts.

-Becoming conscious to the ways advertising and political propaganda use hypnosis and mind-control against us.

-The spectrum of susceptibility – and how this applies to substance abuse.

-“Pre-gaming” with self-hypnosis to help resist getting sucked into groupthink around drinking.

-Treating the addicted mind like a little child … and becoming your own loving inner parent.

Learn more about Shauna Cummins and her work HERE and order your copy of Wishcraft: A Guide to Manifesting a Positive Future HERE.

Big thanks to Sapiens for partnering on this episode. Purchase their delicious 0.0% alcohol wine at Sapiensbeverage.com and get 10% off your order with the code SOBERCURIOUS.

For Carolyn, recovery – meaning, a remembering and honoring of who we are underneath all of our traumas and numbing behaviors – is an essential part in enacting revolution. A message that could not feel more timely right now. No matter our identity, we’re all being asked to get hyper present and real about how we got to this place – and in this episode we discuss why this requires both sober thinking and deep, active listening. Thank you for showing up for this. In the episode we discuss:

-Their definition of both “recovery” and “revolution” - and why we can’t have one without the other.

-Incorporating the stories of our ancestors into our recovery today.

-Forgotten generational tools for healing and connection.

-What it means to “move at the pace of safety” in our personal and collective healing.

-Drinking keeping us compliant in systems of oppression.

-Using alcohol to let go of perfectionism - and then seeking to control their drinking.

-Binge drinking as a way to suppress their queerness - and seek sexual validation from white men.

-Their experiences in AA as a non-binary person of color.

-Embarking on a path of deeper spiritual work as part of a more holistic recovery.

-The opportunity for us in recovering all of our senses – including our sense of injustice.

-Carolyn and I also discuss the books Love & Rage and Radical Dharma.

Sign up for Carolyn's newsletter, check out the Intro to Decolonized Recovery webinar, and look for other updates for Recovery for the Revolution HERE. Follow on IG @recoveryfortherevolution. Support Carolyn's work at Patreon, and using Venmo @recovery-for-the-revolution, PayPal, and Cashapp at $recoverycoin.

Big thanks to Sapiens for partnering on this episode. Purchase their delicious 0.0% alcohol wine at Sapiensbeverage.com and get 10% off your order with the code SOBERCURIOUS.

During this process, I came to realize that intuition – that is, our own innate knowing about the choices that are the right for us—is integral to being Sober Curious. Ultimately this path is about learning to trust and take actions based on our own lived experience with alcohol and other substances, versus going with the societal messaging and peer pressure about how we “should” be engaging with them, what is “normal” or safe consumption versus substance abuse, and what addictive behavior even looks like.

I invited Natalie on the podcast to talk about all of this, as well as provide tips and guidance for accessing our intuition day-to-day. We also discuss why we’re so obsessed with trying to predict and control future outcomes, and how drinking can make us feel more “tapped in” even when it is actually robbing us of our agency and personal power. In this episode we discuss:

-How to tell the difference between intuition, ego, and fear.

-How past experiences—including past traumas—unconsciously influence both our choices in the now and our future outcomes.

-Using alcohol and other substances to shut down the anxiety of our ego/fear voice.

-Letting go of our need to control our emotional state and attach to future outcomes.

-Using substances to connect to our intuition—and how alcohol and weed can trick you into feeling more connected.

-Giving our power away to booze—and why often trust alcohol more than we trust ourselves.

-Natalie’s journey getting sober curious and how this coincided with her becoming a professional intuitive.

-The difference between “letting go” and “surrender.”

-Different ways we can access ourselves on a daily basis—and what is means to practice “energetic self-sovereignty.” 

-Why it’s so hard to make “intuitive” choices when it comes to our drinking.

-Natalie’s experiences of dating sober during the pandemic.

Discover more about Natalie Miles and work and get your copy of You Are IntuItive HERE.

Thanks to Damrak Virgin for partnering on this episode. Get $5 off your Amazon order with the code SOBERCURIOUS through the end of Jan 2021.

But he is also deeply committed to helping enact social change, and his both his training in psychology and his background in the non-profit space, mean he has tons of insights into the wider impact of people across the board beginning to question our drinking—as we become more intentional with our choices and our work in the world.

He also has some fascinating things to say about how drinking affects our mental and emotional wellbeing—what he describes as our “psychological immune system”—as well as how to talk to loved ones about their drinking. In this episode we discuss:

-The intersection of alcohol abuse, entrepreneurship, and workaholism.

-How the Sober Curious movement is both reflecting and seeding social change.

-Why non-drinkers are “othered”—and why this reflects how quickly we exclude those with different needs to the dominant group.

-How alcohol-free options and lifestyles can be made more accessible.

-Why it’s impossible to live a fully “intentional” life while you’re drinking regularly.

-How alcohol and other stressors impact your “psychological immune system”—and what we can do to boost this instead.

-How quitting drinking helps us taking back control of our time, our attention, and our energy.

-How COVID has resulted in more of us experiencing “learned helplessness”—and how we can help ourselves by focusing on our wellbeing.

-The importance of “intentionality” when changing our habits in the long-term.

-Why having a drink is not the same as having a break (and why our brain gets confused about this).

-His partner commenting on his drinking being the catalyst to him getting Sober Curious (and how to talk to loved ones about their drinking).

Check out the For All Drinks HERE and visit DryJanuaryFestival.com for details of upcoming workshops and online events. You can also follow @foralldrinks on IG.

Big thanks to Ghia for partnering on this episode. Order online at drinkghia.com and get 20% off with the code SOBERCURIOUS through end of Jan 2021.

It was after Toni went freelance a few years ago, that she suffered a real crisis of identity, and was able to see how her drinking was part of maintaining the persona she thought was integral to her success.

She has since gone on to become evangelical about the power of self-help in changing our limiting beliefs about ourselves and the world and working to unwind the habits, including drinking, that are holding us back, and in this episode we talk about the concept of sober curiosity as a form of self-help in and of itself.

She’s also been a huge inspiration to me, and is featured in my new book, The Sober Curious Reset, for having the best come-back ever for when somebody asks why you’re not drinking: which is simply to throw it back at them and ask, why ARE you? In this episode we discuss:

-Choosing a career where free drinks were seen as a perk of the job.

-Becoming addicted to working in a high-pressure environment – as this didn’t allow for any time to think and feel deeply.

-The myth of the work-hard-play-hard lifestyle.

-How her drinking spiraled after she quit her job to go freelance.

-Confronting her cognitive dissonance about being a heavy drinker working in the wellness space.

-Integrating her “party girl” persona with being a non-drinker.

-Using drinking and hangovers as a way to avoid confronting her lack of self-esteem and purpose.

-Finding self-help as a way to help make sense of her identity crisis – and the first book that set her off on this path.

-Why quitting drinking – even if it’s not forever – is the kindest thing you can do for yourself.

-Why she chose to take 100 days of booze to start her Sober Curious journey and what she discovered in the process.

-What she does on Friday nights instead of drinking.

-Her top “quit-lit” choices – and how these titles have helped her.

Discover more about Toni and her work and become part of the Shelf Help book club HERE and find her on Instagram @shelfhelp.club

Thanks to Damrak Virgin for partnering on this episode. You can download a PDF of Mindful Cocktails from Damrak HERE and get $5 off your Damrak Virgin Amazon order through end of Jan 2021 with the code SOBERCURIOUS

She also came to this project from a personal place – having been questioning her own drinking for the past several years, and she shares where she is currently at on this path and how the pandemic has influenced her relationship with booze. 

We also discuss Julia’s podcast, The Lonely Hour, which is a deep dive into what some have termed the “loneliness epidemic” – and how our current social recession is impacting our drinking choices. In this episode we discuss:

-Why it’s time to rethink what we mean when we say let’s “get a drink” 

-Why the term “mocktail” is a thing of the past, and what industry-professionals are calling these drinks instead

-What makes a really good af drink.

-Her experience as a grey-area drinker and where she believes she falls on the scale of alcohol misuse.

-How she has come to define “problem drinking” for herself.

-How her mother’s issues with alcohol have influenced her choices today.

-Why she uses the term “alcohol-free” versus “sober” to describe her not drinking.

-Getting extra support for her stay alcohol-free during COVID.

-The psychology of drinking alone vs. drinking in groups to mask social anxiety.

-The difference between loneliness, isolation, and solitude - and what they can teach us.

-The value of a simple, quiet life. 

Get your copy of Julia's book, Good Drinks, HERE, and follow her on Instagram @juliabainbridge.

Thanks to Damrak Virgin for partnering on this episode. You can download a PDF of Mindful Cocktails from Damrak HERE and get $5 off your Damrak Virgin Amazon order through end of Jan 2021 with the code SOBERCURIOUS

You can also get your copy of The Sober Curious Reset: Change the Way You Drink in 100 Days or Less HERE.

While I was doing my research for this interview I looked into statistics around rates of substance abuse among different communities – which confirmed something that I had long suspected: that, as a rule, the more oppressed or marginalized a people are, the higher the rates of substance abuse disorder. For example, Native American communities have the highest rates for addiction in the US, with LGBTQIA+ communities having a 30% incidence of substance abuse versus around 9% in the general population. 

We get into all of this, as well as the work Lazarus is doing in an area called “Peace Studies” – a syllabus that looks at the work of grass roots and indigenous liberation movements throughout history and shows how disparate groups fighting for social and environmental justice are in fact all connected. In this episode we discuss:

-Using alcohol to perform a toxic hyper-masculinity.

-How 12-step fellowships are evolving to become more inclusive. 

-Why the LGBTQIA+ community has such high rates of substance abuse disorders.

-The problem with the term “minority stress.”

-Why we all do better when we all do better.

-Racism and colonialism as a cause of addiction.

-How they think about “decolonization” and how we can enact this in our individual lives.

-Their work teaching “Peace Studies” – and what this means.

-Why we deserve a world where we all get what we desire. 

-Staying sober to spite white supremacy and live their best life!

Discover more about Lazarus Letcher and their work HERE and follow them on Instagram @l.nuzzles.

-His mission to replace the “threshold moment” of having a drink at the end of the day.

-The Sober Curious movement being a natural result of the global wellness trend.

-Hospitality being an industry where it’s easy to hide problem drinking.

-Booze-free beverages being an important development for the drinks business as a whole.

-Excess alcohol consumption being conflated with an old-school view of masculinity.

-Having conflicted feelings about marketing alcoholic drinks.

-The impact of increased exposure to different cultural ideas about alcohol consumption.

-Why Australia, the UK, and other Anglo-Centric cultures in particular have such issues with binge-drinking. 

-How the trend for taking extended beaks from drinking is skewing drinking stats overall.

-Non-alcoholic adult drinks providing people a form of “social camouflage” to experiment with sober curiosity.

-Why we’re witnessing the tip of the iceberg when it comes to changing attitudes about alcohol and its role in our lives.

-The hardest spirit to replicate and why.

Sample Lyres for yourself when you visit Lyres.com/sobercurious where you can sign up for a special 15% discount and follow along @lyresspiritco.

Thanks also to episode partners Curious Elixirs. Get one FREE bottle on orders of $50 or more at Curiouselixirs.com with the code RUBY and follow @curiouselixirs.

-Drinking her way through the success of her twenties – and using booze to hide her imposter syndrome.

-The role of alcohol in the workplace and when this becomes problematic.

-Drinking to be the “cool boss” and the bad example this set for her team.

-The role of alcohol in her relationships, and why her current partner wanted her to quit drinking.

-The difference between a “concerned” partner being caring or controlling when they comment on your drinking.

-Quitting drinking for a year as an experiment and her attitude to alcohol now.

-How to build real confidence in business and in life.

-Leaning heavily on food and TV during COVID.

-How to be intentional about fostering connection in the workplace – without it revolving around booze.

-What it means to have work-life balance in an always-on hustle culture.

Be the first to learn more about what Sophia is doing next @sophiaamoruso and sign up for her newsletter at Sophiaamoruso.com.

Big thanks to season sponsors Lyres. Visit Lyres.com/sobercurious to sign up for a special 15% discount and follow along @lyresspiritco.

Thanks also to episode partners Curious Elixirs. Get one FREE bottle on orders of $50 or more at Curiouselixirs.com with the code RUBY and follow @curiouselixirs.

All of these factors make it difficult to spot when it’s become a problem – and many habitual smokers may see themselves in this very nuanced conversation with spiritual healer Brandon Alter, where we also discuss the deep healing that can happen when we really choose to show up for ourselves and for life. In this episode we discuss:

-The medicinal properties of weed – and when medicinal use becomes habitual use.

-The intrinsically personal nature of substance use and abuse.

-Weed becoming legal making it easier for people to talk honestly about their experiences with it.

-Reaching for things externally that we are not able to give ourselves on the inside.

-When getting high goes from being an altered state to a person’s “normal.”

-The spiritual energy of weed as plant medicine.

-How, over time, seeking “instant zen” with marijuana atrophies our ambition and ability to take action in our lives.

-Acceptance as an active choice you make.

-Smoking as a way to survive the life he “thought” he wanted.

-Quitting to step more fully onto his path as a spiritual healer.

-The concept of “soul retrieval” as it relates to the process of recovery.

-Working the 12-step program with a sober coach – and the most important part of the process.

Discover more about Brandon and his work HERE and check out his podcast The Spiritual Gayz. 

Thanks to season sponsors Lyres - visit Lyres.com/sobercurious to sign up for a special 15% discount code and follow along @lyresspiritco on Instagram.

Thanks also to episode partners Curious Elixirs. Visit curiouselixirs.com and use the code RUBY to get one free bottle with an order over $50.

In this episode we also discuss:

-The commonalities between opioid abuse and alcohol abuse.

-How easy it is for “legal” addictions to fly under the radar.

-Chasing feeling good vs. using to self-medicate pain.

-The role of both genetics and learned behavior when it comes to addiction running in families.

-The physical side-effects of opioids abuse. 

-Habitual use of both opioids and alcohol just to feel “normal.”

-The wake-up call that made Chekesha realize she had to quit—and why it took another year for her to get clean.

-What she experienced in her month of going cold turkey—and what got her through.

-What comes after the “pink cloud” moment of early sobriety.

-The lack of access for deaf and disabled people in traditional recovery circles. 

-The premature birth of her son—and the challenges of being a deaf first-time mom.

-Overcoming her challenges sober giving her a similar “high” to the drugs. 

-Why we have to change the stigma around addiction if we want to make it easier for people to get help.

-How we view addiction and addicts differently through the lens of race.

Follow Chekesha on Instagram @chekeshakay to learn more about her work.

Thank you to podcast season sponsors Lyres—visit lyres.com/sobercurious to claim a special 15% discount code and follow along @lyresspiritco.

Thanks also to Grüvi for partnering on this episode—stock up online at getgruvi.com and use the code SOBERCURIOUS for a one-time 20% discount.

Other topics include: 

-Drinking to medicate unhealed wounds of his traumatic upbringing.

-Alcohol being a way to conceal a lack of belonging that has pervaded Western society. 

-Why binge drinking and alcoholism are so prevalent in nations with a colonialist past—such as the UK, North America, Australia, and South Africa.

-The pain of living with pent-up inter-generational trauma.

-The problem with labels and how you can be a problem drinker without using the term “alcoholic.”

-The need for more access to alternative healing modalities.

-The aboriginal view of holistic wellbeing, and how mindfulness and meditation have their roots within indigenous cultures.

-The difference between aboriginal psychology and Western psychology. 

-Quitting drinking as a healing path in and of itself.

-The fact that life will always be stressful—the key is to find ways to manage it that work for us.

-The reasons younger generations are choosing not to drink.

-Clinton’s six “Principals of Law” for healing as individuals and as a society.

Discover more about Clinton and his work HERE and follow @sobahbeverages on Instagram.

Thanks to series sponsors Lyres. Visit lyres.com/sobercurious to get your 15% discount code and follow along @lyresspiritco for recipes and more.

And Grüvi for supporting this episode. Use the code SOBERCURIOUS at getgruvi.com for a one-time 20% discount good through December 2020.

We dive in by discussing the power and the potential of social media activism, and go on to talk about Light’s own sober journey – including how he consciously weaned himself off alcohol over a period of months, and how quitting drinking 20 years ago actually paved the way for him becoming a meditation teacher. We also discuss what it really means to be happy, and how current world events represent a collective rock bottom – offering us all the opportunity to “get sober” from toxic systems and beliefs. In this episode we also discuss:

-How to respond to events versus react in ways that may inadvertently cause more harm.

-The benefits of both meditation and sobriety for developing an “observer’s mind."

-How to “get good” at meditation.

-The different “qualities” of happiness that are available to us and how to experience them.

-Light’s story of quitting drinking – and how this paved the way for his career as a yoga and meditation teacher.

-The “pendulum” effect of going cold turkey – and how to wean yourself off alcohol.

-A different way of thinking about moderation.

-Quitting eating meat as the start of his  sober journey.

-Sobriety and meditation as part of the path to paving a “new normal” when it comes to our definitions of success and happiness.

Discover more about Light Watkins and his work HERE and follow him on Instagram @lightwatkins.

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thank you also to Grüvi non-alcoholic craft brewed beer and wines. Order online at getgruvi.com and use the code SOBERCURIOUS through December 2020 for a one-time 15% discount.

We go to some pretty deep places in this conversation, which also touches on the healing potential of altered states – with and without the use of various sacred plant medicines. In this episode we discuss:

-Why self-healing often means sexual healing.

-The trauma done to each body seen as “weaker” in the dominant patriarchal paradigm.

-The lasting imprint of child abuse—and how this is behind so many addictions, self-harming behaviors and chronic diseases.

-The meaning and the process of shadow work, and how this helps us process trauma.

-Why healing has to happen in the body as well as the mind.

-How you can use breathwork to bring about altered states to aid the healing process – without the need of substances.

-How we can become addicted to fixing ourselves – and how this is different from real healing.

-Accepting the hard things that happened to us as part of the healing process.

-Why pain and trauma are a normal part of human life, and why it’s so hard for us to accept this.

-Using tabacco to self-soothe her nervous system as a teen.

-Use vs. abuse of plants as medicine.

-Sitting with discomfort as a way to expand our resilience and experience of being human.

-Sobriety as its own self-healing journey.

Learn more about Alexandra Roxo and her work HERE, follow her on Instagram, and get your copy of F*ck Like A Goddess HERE.

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Athletic Brewing non-alcoholic craft beers. Free delivery on two 6-packs or more.

-Using excessive alcohol consumption to define himself as a man

-Men performing an exaggerated hardness to cover up their vulnerability

-Getting drunk to give himself permission to cry—and learning to cry sober

-Discovering running as a way to access and process his emotions

-Defining his own “sobriety”—and why he still uses psychedelics

-Becoming agnostic after smoking DMT

-How he finally found a definition of spirituality that works for him

-The concept of “head nutrition”—and being careful about the information we consume

-Making stuff as a way of making sense of the world

-Moving to New York just so he could carry on drinking the way he did

-The thought of quitting drinking being much scarier than quitting itself

-Constantly feeling like shit becoming part of his identity

-Figuring out he could still have fun, flirt, tell dirty jokes, and have sex as a sober person

Learn more about Mishka and his work HERE and get your copy of Cold Turkey HERE.

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Athletic Brewing non-alcoholic craft beers. Free delivery on two 6-packs or more.

-Vasavi selling her soul to cigarettes, alcohol, cocaine, and people pleasing, in her desperation to fit in

-Getting clear on who you are and what you want before you decide what to do with your life

-Losing touch with her inner voice - and sense of self - in the depths of her addictions

-The shame we feel around having needs, and asking for them to be met

-Using alcohol and other drugs to feel more attractive

-The danger of looking for validation and self-worth in social media

-Why cocaine became her “thing” – and how she also used it to medicate her bipolar disorder and ADHD in college

-How easy it is to be influenced by the company you keep – especially when you lack connection to yourself

-Why being a “high-functioning” addict can make it harder to quit

-Being rejected by her traditional Indian-American family following her divorce 

-Not allowing yourself to treat yourself like shit

-Being diagnosed with bipolar at age 20 and why she chose to get off her medication after she got sober

Learn more about Vasavi Kumar and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @mynameisvasavi

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Athletic Brewing non-alcoholic craft beers. Free delivery on two 6-packs or more.

Nina’s book shows how this dynamic has both endured and evolved over the decades, and anybody who has been in a close relationship with somebody engaged in substance abuse, will see so much of themselves in her story—a story which we don’t hear often enough. In this episode we discuss: 

-The ripple-effect of addiction and how it impacts our families, friendships, and other relationships.

-Nina’s definition of codependency, and how we lose ourselves trying to fix or help others.

-Codependency as another expression of alcoholism.

-The gendering of codependency being rooted in women’s historical material dependency on men.

-Sobriety as a feminist issue.

-Focusing on another person’s problems as a way of bypassing your own.

-How love addiction can mirror the feelings and experiences of addiction to substances.

-Nina’s experiences of the 12-step program in Al-Anon.

-“People pleasing” and how always being there for others stops us even knowing what WE want.

-The healthiest way to help people who are struggling with substance abuse.

-The meaning of the term “emotional incest” – and its role in codependent family dynamics.

-Finding peace with her guilt about exposing her kids to her former partner’s drug abuse.

Get your copy of Good Morning Destroyer of Men's Souls by Nina Renata Aron HERE.

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Monument—personalized online support to change your drinking. Visit joinmonument.com for plans and pricing.

Considering all that we have to be angry about in the world today, this subject and this book feels incredibly relevant. Especially as unprocessed anger can lead to depression and self-harm when turned inward against ourselves. In this episode we discuss: 

-Lama Rod’s definition of anger—and how it can be a tool for liberation

-How to use anger in a constructive and restorative way

-How alcohol and anger are intertwined – as we use it to numb our frustration or to express pent up anger

-Practices for moving through anger to help us process it in a healthy way

-Anger as a fuel for activism – and how to infuse our ongoing social justice work with the energy of love

-How fear of anger prevents difficult yet necessary conversations from happening

-The emotional labor of managing our own reactivity – and the violent reactions of others

-Why we are living through “apocalypse” – and sobriety as its own version of this

-The importance of working with complexity and understanding that the path forward lies beyond the binary

-Why comfort is the antithesis of progress and positive change

Get your copy of Love and Rage HERE and  visit Lamarod.com or follow @lamarodowens on Instagram for upcoming talks, events, and retreats.

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.co/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Monument—personalized online support to change your drinking. Visit joinmonument.com for plans and pricing.

In this episode we  discuss: 

-Pastor Ron’s definition of racism, which extends to any discrimination based on a person’s external identity

-Why racism is a “disease” that can infect anybody – including people of color 

-Why admitting we are “powerless” over racism is the first step to healing from it

-How the 12-step program can provide a safe framework for confronting racist thoughts, beliefs, and behaviors 

-How the Buddhist practice of mindfulness can help us to interrogate painful truths 

-Racism being a virus (like COVID-19) like that must be fully eradicated for the overall health of our society

-How the Black Lives Matter movement has been the backdrop to a collective—and ongoing—“Step 4” around racism, as we take our personal moral inventories around race

-Why change must happen on a personal level before it can happen on a systemic level

-Why an ability to own one’s own racism shows a willingness to change it

-Anti-racism work as part of our human evolution in the continuum of creation

Racists Anonymous aim to get 250 meetings started globally this year. If you’re interested in attending you can visit rainternational.org for more details. 

This episode is supported by Lyres non-alcoholic spirits. Visit lyres.com/sobercurious and subscribe for 15% off.

Thanks also to Monument—personalized online support to change your drinking. Visit joinmonument.com for plans and pricing.

Since then, the "no-and-low" category has exploded, with so many alcohol-free options on the market helping people make the conscious choice not to drink. In this episode we discuss:

-The Sober Curious movement taking root thanks to the information age.

-What it means to be a conscious consumer – and how to make responsible choices in all areas of our lives.

-Why alcohol is not a match for life in the modern world, where our time and energy are our most valuable resources. 

-Why the goal is to make it “normal” not to drink – as opposed to sexy, aspirational, or cool.

-The radical position of identifying as a normal drinker … with a drinking problem.

-How to live in the discomfort of being “in between” two truths.

-What informs Ben’s drinking choices now, as a figurehead in the alcohol-free space.

-The best places in the world to get an alcohol-free cocktail.

-Valuing the whole experience of a social event and the art of connection.

-The advent of “rage rooms” – and other ways to process difficult feelings in the Now Age.

-What Ben sees as the future of booze.

Learn more about Seedlip at seedlipdrinks.com where you can get 20% off your online order with the code SOBERCURIOUS. You can also follow @seedlipsocial on Instagram for recipes, events, and more.

With a history of compulsive eating, which she got sober from with Over Eaters Anonymous, Victoria is also a non-drinker—having decided at age 19 she didn’t want to risk becoming addicted to alcohol. In this episode we discuss: 

-The power of having an accountability buddy when making or breaking a habit.

-Being a vegan pioneer for 37 years – and the similarities between the meat-free and alcohol-free movements.

-Veganism as a celebration of life – and the role of animals in our ecosystem.

-Victoria’s history as a compulsive eater – and her recovery with Over Eaters Anonymous.

-Her decision aged 18 never to start smoking or drinking.

-How to host a sober vegan party (for meat-eating drinkers).

-Emotional conditioning versus rational thinking when it comes to our addictions to food and drink.

-Thinking about veganism as a “good karma” diet.

-The science that makes cheese as addictive as cocaine – and what makes some foods more addictive than others.

-Living a life of integrity and “spiritual fitness” - and her definition of both.

-The long-term health impact of our lifestyle choices.

Discover more about Victoria and her work HERE follow her on Instagram HERE and check out her Main Street Vegan podcast.

This episode is supported by Seedlip. Visit Seedlipdrinks.com and use the code SOBERCURIOUS for 20% off your online order and follow @seedlipsocial on Instagram.

-Using alcohol and other substances to make life feel larger.

-The British drinking culture as an escape from tradition and repression.

-Being brought up in a strict religious family by her grandparents – and learning that her birth father had died of liver cancer.

-Discovering alcohol aged 14 and using it to feel more confident as the only black girl in a white, working class town.

-Storytelling as a way to explore the darker parts of ourselves and to feel less alone.

-The role of substance abuse in the archetype of the tortured artist.

-Saving the feelings you’re trying to manage with alcohol up for the next day.

-Quitting drinking to prove to herself that she didn’t need alcohol to be confidence, funny, and creative.

-Different theories about what happens when we “black out" from booze.

-Seeing our drinking histories as all part of a process of self-discovery.

-Finding community and togetherness in the 12-step program – and all the things that make up her sobriety tool kit.

Discover more about Yrsa and her work HERE and follow her on Instagram @yrsadaleyward.

This episode was created in partnership with Seedlip. Use the code SOBERCURIOUS at Seedlipdrinks.com for 20% off your online order and follow @seedlipsocial for recipes and more.

Originally recorded as the US goes into week 3 of lockdown in response to the coronavirus pandemic, Aaron's work has never felt more relevant or needed. In this episode we discuss:

-How to re-train yourself to expect the best.

-Why like attracts like, making optimism an essential part of bringing about positive change.

-Aaron’s background as a Facebook “comment crusader” – and what made him change his approach to social justice.

-The subconscious programing that only knows how to feel hurt, hopeless, or under attack – and how we can begin to re-write this.

-How to separate our feelings from the story we are telling ourselves and what we believe about the world.

-Learning to feel and process painful feelings so that they are no longer running the show.

-His sobriety as part of an overall awakening and raising of consciousness.

-The meaning and practice of “shadow work” and its role in healing our wounded parts.

-Rediscovering prayer on his own terms – having rejected his repressive Catholic up-bringing.

-Cultivating your own authentic frequency so you’re less susceptible to external influences and agendas.

Learn more about Aaron Rose and his work HERE and follow him on Instagram @aaronxrose. You can also access his "Future World" meditation HERE.

Ruby also mention's Charles Eisenstein's must-read essay on the pandemic —you can find that HERE.

This episode was created in  partnership with Seedlip, the world's first non-alcoholic spirit. Visit seedlipdrinks.com/us and use the code SOBERCURIOUS for 20% off your online order.

Given than many of us drink to feel a sense of belonging in our intimate relationships, our careers, and our wider social lives, Toko-pa's teachings are extremely relevant to the Sober Curious path—especially a at time when a period of self-isolation in response to the coronavirus epidemic has many of us questioning what really matters, and who we even are without the distractions of our everyday lives. In this episode we discuss: 

-Our lack of belonging as a part of our core collective wounding.

-The meaning of belonging, why we feel outside of it, and why so few of us feel like we belong.

-What’s behind the epidemic of loneliness and alienation in our culture.

-The competencies of belonging – and how we can relearn this skill.

-Exile from the self as the root of our addictions.

-Drinking to fit in – when we feel like parts of ourselves won’t be accepted.

-Recovery as a journey of recovering and re-integrating the lost parts of ourselves.

-The “difficult and harrowing project” of welcoming all of our pain and wounding back.

-Quitting drinking as one of the “initiations by exiles” that can re-claim an authentic sense of self.

-The power we gain back when we sacrifice, or “give up,” alcohol and the false belonging of the drinking culture.

-Dreamwork as a way to give context to the troubling events and emotions we experience in our waking lives.

-Toko-pa's own journey addressing her problem drinking in her 20s.

Learn more about Toko-pa and her work HERE and download her Dream Drops digital course HERE. You can get your copy of Belonging HERE.

This episode was created in partnership with Seedlip. Use the code SOBERCURIOUS for 20% off your online order at seedlipdrinks.com and follow @seedlipsocial on Instagram.

Pete has also been a pioneering voice in the field of holistic recovery, and has over 10 years experience working in out-patient rehab centers and one-to-one with individuals navigating their recovery. in this episode we discuss:

-The difference between addiction, dependency, and substance abuse.

-Why the most important thing is to consider the “why” beneath the “what” – the reasons somebody is using a substance the way they do.

-What predisposes a person to problematic substance use.

-Why the future of addressing addiction lies in prevention and early intervention.

-The role of stigma in how we talk about and treat addiction.

-Why simply asking yourself: “Is something off in my life?” is the first step to identifying if your drinking has become a problem.

-How to talk to loved ones about their substance use.

-The role of substance abuse in relationships.

-Why 12-step programs work for some people and not for others.

-The cornerstone of a sustainable shift in all maladaptive behaviors.

Learn more about BIGVISION and their work at BigVision.nyc and check out their online offerings and meet-ups you can access from anywhere HERE. You can also follow them in Instagram @bigvisionnyc

This episode was created in partnership with Seedlip. Follow them on Instagram @seedlipsocial and get 20% of your online order at Seedliipdrinks.com with the code SOBERCURIOUS.

In this episode we discuss:

-The definition of microdosing.

-Why the term mainly applies to psychedelics—and not necessarily substances like cannabis and MDMA.

-The intention behind using substances this way; whether for healing, for creativity, or to improve focus and productivity.

-The potential for microdosing to replace alcohol as a social lubricant.

-Why it’s very difficult to become “addicted” to psychedelics or microdosing.

-Whether this practice is compatible with living a sober curious life.

-The legalities of microdosing in different parts of the world and how this is changing.

-The value of peer-to-peer therapy and how to be vulnerable and authentic with one another.

-How guided psychedelic experiences can help people heal from addiction.

-The risks of drinking versus the risks of psychedelics.

-The importance of community and interdependence for our mental health.

Learn more about Will Siu and his work HERE and follow him on Instagram @will.siu.md. You can also listen to our previous podcast on Psychedelics and Sobriety HERE. Will's portrait: @noamekhaus

This episode was created in partnership with Seedlip. Discover more at Seedlipdrinks.com/us and follow along @seedlipsocial.

In the words of Glennon Doyle, Layla's work is "personal, practical, reflective, applicable, difficult, effective, and imperative"—and her new book is a vital  "sobering up" to the realities of our racist society.

In this episode we discuss:

-The true definition and impact of White Supremacy.

-White people’s addiction to privilege and the comfort + safety it brings.

-Anti-racism work as part of our collective transformational process. 

-The importance of having an experienced mentor when doing deep personal work.

-Racism as a negation and abasement of our full humanity.

-Prioritizing living your values over your comfort—and living with integrity.

-Not looking for rewards or expecting a feel-good payoff in our anti-racism work.

-Giving up our sensitivity to the suffering of people of color in exchange for our white privilege.

-Resisting discomfort as a way of preventing and blocking change.

-The importance and value of making mistakes as we un-brainwash ourselves.

-Being a “good ancestor” and the legacy we are leaving with our actions for future generations.

You can learn more about Layla and her work at Laylafsaad.com, follow her on Instagram @laylafsaad, and subscribe to her Good Ancestor podcast. You can get your copy of Me And White Supremacy HERE.

This season of the Sober Curious podcast is supported by Seedlip. Get 20% off all online orders throughout Feb 2020 at seedlipdrinks.com/us with the code DRYDATE.

Topics we also discuss:

-Jordan's boozestory and early life as a party girl

-Turning away from drinking culture after she turned 21

-Not drinking on her bachelorette and at her wedding

-Hearing the message to “never drink again” during an ayahuasca ceremony

-Connecting to her alien “pleiadian” ancestors (!)

-Her childhood OCD as a sign of an addictive personality 

-Addiction to “healthy” eating as a raw vegan blogger

-Managing social media addiction when Instagram is an integral part of your work

-Dealing with judgement about her unconventional wellness journey

Discover more about Jordan and her work HERE and follow her healing journey on instagram @thebalancedblonde.

This episode was created in partnership with Seedlip. Get 20% off online orders through Feb 29 2020 with the code DRYDATE at Seedlipdrinks.com/us and follow @seedlipsocial.

In this episode, we also discuss:

Why Dan waited until he had 10 years of sobriety before writing his memoir.

-The insidious nature of opioid addiction.

-Why he found pills despite working in an industry that is awash with booze and cocaine.

-How he kept his addiction hidden from his colleagues, family, and friends.

-Career status as part of an addiction to validation.

-Wanting to be special vs. wanting to be normal.

-Fear of withdrawal and the physical addiction to opioids.

-The cornerstones of his sobriety today.

-The advent of the opioids crisis.

-His attempt to score heroin - and how his story may have turned out differently if he had.

Get your copy of Dan's memoir As Needed for Pain HERE and follow him on Twitter and Instagram.

This episode was produced in partnership with Seedlip, the world's first distilled non-alcoholic spirit. Get 20% off all orders during Feb 2020 at Seedlipdrinks.com/us and follow on Instagram @seedlipsocial.

In this episode we  discuss:

-Over-exercising as a way to numb feelings of inadequacy.

-Workout culture as part of a fat phobic ideology.

-A sexual trauma at college triggering her first bout of bulimia.

-Disordered eating among women of color.

-Her experience during and after treatment.

-Our addictions as part of our identity.

-What it means to have "thin privilege."

-Cultivating an inner feeling of “okay’ness” first and foremost.

-Yoga as part of her recovery – and the healing power of mantra and breath.

-Fat phobia as part of the legacy of white supremacy.

Follow @saraclarkyoga on Instagram to learn more about Sara and her work and check out details of her summer 2020  retreat HERE.

This episode was created in partnership with Seedlip. Find them on Instagram @seedlipsocial and use the code DRYDATE to get 20% off online orders (except bundles) through Feb 29 2020.

Topics covered include:

-Sex as a performance - and how alcohol enables this.

-The positive influence of feminist porn.

-Being honest and vulnerable about what you want, in and out of the bedroom.

-Drinking as a way to mask body image issues.

-Taking the guilt out of pleasure.

-Self-pleasure as a practice of self-acceptance.

-The things we don’t get taught in sex ed ...

-Crying as an emotional orgasm.

Tawny Lara is the co-host of the Recovery Rocks podcast. You can discover more about her work HERE and follow her on Twitter and Instagram.

This episode is supported by Seedlip, the world's first non-alcoholic spirit. Learn more at Seedlipdrinks.com/us and  @seedlipsocial.

A self-confessed "little white liar," her story into and out of addiction, and her perfectly imperfect struggles to make sense of it all, is a literary gem, and a must-read for anybody on this path. In this episode we also discuss:

- Why "permission to question everything" is what felt honest on her path to sobriety.

- What being "sober curious" means to her.

- How her boozy career in PR and marketing enabled her addiction.

- The impacts of drinking on motherhood - and her views on navigating the toxic "wine mom" culture.

- Her first sober party - and how she learned to socialize sober.

- Her experiences with AA and her conflicted feelings about the 12-step program.

- The most important practices in her sober tool-kit.

- Writing as a tool for recovery and her favorite books.

You can learn more about Laura and her work HERE, follow her on Instagram @laura_mckowen, and order a copy of We Are The Luckiest HERE.

Season 3 of the Sober Curious podcast is supported by Seedlip, the world's first distilled non-alcoholic spirit. Get yours HERE and find them @seedlipdrinks.

Raised in a super health-conscious home, Niki and Anika didn't grow up around booze, but that didn't stop them getting sucked into the college and tech industry drinking cultures. Having since become pioneers in the alcohol-free space, in this interview we also discuss:

-The legalization of weed creating a need for non-alcoholic drinks.

-Moving the whole family – along with the dog – from Toronto to Denver to start the business.

-The benefits and challenges of running a family business.

-The links between sobriety, self-belief, and entrepreneurship.

-Sober Curiosity as a mindset of growth and progress.

-Feeling the peer pressure when opting out of college drinking culture.

-Binge drinking as a stand in for relaxation in over-achievers.

-Using hangovers as  motivation for the "punishment" of being healthy.

-Why Big Alcohol moving into the zero-proof space will only be a boost for the industry overall.

You can learn more about Grüvi and get 20% off all online orders at Getgruvi.com (use the code RUBY 20).

This episode is also supported by Lyres Impossibly Crafted Spirits.

Eddie shares his own early history with drugs and alcohol, and the discovery that led him to quit all substance use aged just 19. In this episode we also discuss:

-Being attracted to the risk-taking behavior of drink and drugs.

-Using psychedelics as a way of seeking meaning and self-fulfillment.

-Using yoga to achieve higher states of consciousness.

-The experience of “being awareness” vs. changing our awareness …

-Learning how to fully inhabit our body and understand its urges.

-Using substances to forget the limitations of the physical world.

-Perfectionism as a pointless—and addictive—pursuit.

-Developing a neutral mind and practicing non-attachment.

-How yoga supports the body’s homeostatic function—and all the ways this can get out of balance.

Check out Eddie's new book, One Simple Thing, and follow him on Instagram to soak up more of his yogic teachings!

This episode was created in partnership with Grüvi and Lyres.

Chris is a natural story-teller, and, with a background in counseling, he’s also very skilled at self-analysis. Listening to him unpack the subconscious beliefs and unmet emotional needs behind his drinking shows the positive impact of doing this inner work – of working out your WHY - no matter where you’re at on your sober or sober curious path. In this episode we also discuss:

-The danger of avoiding social situations in sobriety

-The difference between healthy alone-time and isolating

-The incident at age five that shattered his confidence and sense of self

-Making choices that back up negative subconscious beliefs

-Knowing alcohol was a problem for him the first time he tried it aged 16

-Perceiving drinking to be the only path to connection - when it actually pushed people away

-His two experiences of rehab – and the question that became the turning point in his sobriety

-The role of anti-depressants in his recovery

-The importance of getting professional help when needed

-The origin story of Sans Bar and how he got his concept off the ground

Chris will be taking Sans Bar on the road for a 15-stop tour in 2020. Learn more HERE and follow along on Instagram for all the latest updates.

This episode was created in partnership with Grüvi and Lyres.

Annie and her work have been a huge inspiration to Ruby on her Sober Curious path, and in this fascinating conversation we hear the origin story for Annie's book, along with a peek inside her "naked mind." Other topics covered include:

-Getting death threats after she published This Naked Mind—and how she persevered with her mission.

-How her unconventional upbringing helped hardwire her for curiosity.

-The other books, thinking, and philosophies that have inspired her.

-The biggest challenges she faces as a sober person and the tools she goes to.

-The ways she has found to escape and manage stress without alcohol.

-Creating better boundaries and recognizing what she can no longer tolerate in sobriety.

-Why more people questioning their drinking is part of a bigger shift in consciousness.

-What she thinks is the future of the sober curious movement.

Discover more about Annie and her work and listen to her podcast at thisnakedmind.com and find her podcast HERE.

This episode was created in collaboration with Grüvi and Lyre's.

Now in her early 50s, and with her career still going strong, this is also a story of how Paulette learned to prioritize her own wellbeing. Having experienced mental health issues in her 20s, these reappeared after she became the chief carer for her mother after she became sick, while also battling an opioid addiction. In this episode, we also discuss:

-The challenges of being sober curious as a nightlife professional.

-The links between drinking and diabetes.

-Navigating friendships in sobriety—and being honest about your “why” for not drinking.

-The very personal choice not to medicate mental health issues.

-Signs of “carer fatigue”—and why it's important to ask for help when you're a helper.

-Alcohol and its effects on the menopause.

-Top tools for managing your moods naturally.

Visit Djpaulette.co.uk for upcoming gigs and links to Paulettes mixes and radio shows.

This episode was created in partnership with Grüvi and Lyre's.

A survivor of childhood abuse, Lindsay acknowledges how she turned to medicating with alcohol as a stand-in for more profound healing modalities—and how this prevented her from moving forward. In this episode we also discuss:

-What our body is telling us when we have an allergic reaction to alcohol.

-Using alcohol to mask misunderstood intuitive, psychic, and empathetic healing gifts.

-Being the only sober person in a family of “passionate drinkers.”

-The breakdown / breakthough that led to her addressing her childhood trauma and PTSD.

-Emotions and feelings as signposts for how to use our power and our gifts.

-Alcohol as a way to perpetuate abuse and self-harm when it's all we know.

-Using the tarot to understand addiction and as a tool for self-healing.

You can learn more about Lindsay and her work at Lindsaymack.com and check out her podcast, Tarot for The Wild Soul, for more mystical wisdom.

My partners for this episode are Gruvi and Lyre's, and you can check out all my upcoming events and retreats at Rubywarrington.com/events

Laura shares her drinking history as a young politico who became disillusioned with the system, as well as her journey creating one of the biggest sober / sober curious communities both on and offline. In this episode we also discuss:

-Living life in “high def” – and feeling all your feelings.

-How alcohol changes the wiring in your brain.

-The lasting impact of ladette culture and hard drinking being seen as “feminist."

-Drinking dreams and what they mean.

-How to create and host your own sober meetups.

-Navigating the booming alcohol-free drinks industry.

-Not drinking as an act of rebellion (and how to be a non-drinker and still fit in).

-Embracing shades of grey when it comes to quitting.

Learn more about Laura and Club Soda HERE and join the community on Facebook. You can also pre-order the Club Soda book, How To Be A Mindful Drinker (out Dec 262019) HERE.

Season 2 of the Sober Curious podcast is sponsored by Grüvi. Get 20% off all online orders at www.getgruvi.com with the code Ruby20.

Arlan shares her back story as a high-functioning alcoholic, including how she even managed to secure the first investor for her fund while sleeping rough on the floor of San Francisco airport and drinking every day. Her drinking history took many turns before she found the book that changed EVERYTHING (clue: it's not Sober Curious!)—while realizing her own worth has been integral to her staying sober.

In this episode we also discuss:

-Being a high-functioning habitual drinker.

-How she justified and normalized excessive drinking.

-Alcohol as a way to de-sensitize herself to over-stimulation.

-A disastrous attempt to replace booze with marijuana to manage anxiety.

-Learning to understand her value and getting “financial sobriety.”

-Why, when it comes to inequality of society, it is time to stop live the “drunken lie.”

-Why money, like alcohol, only makes you more of what you already are.

You can learn more about Backstage Capital (including the 2020 tour) HERE and follow Arlan on Instagram.

I partnered on this series with Grüvi—and you can get 20% off any online order at www.getgruvi.com with the code Ruby20

It's a controversial stance, and one that pivots on the fact that when you have a problem with alcohol, alcohol isn't the problem. Rather than demonize the booze, Adi's approach is to focus on addressing whatever a person is medicating (with alcohol and other drugs)—the theory being that problematic drinking will be eradicated along with these underlying problems. A former habitual drug user himself, and now "regular social drinker," in this episode Adi and I also discuss:

-His personal history with drug abuse, and what led to him getting hooked

-The four factors that influence the way we use substances: biology, psychology, location, and spirituality

-Why only you can take responsibility for the way you are drinking

-Finding your purpose as a key to sustainable “recovery”

-Sitting in the discomfort to get clear about what needs to change in your life

-Honesty and radical self-acceptance as the cornerstone of maintaining a healthy relationship with alcohol

Follow Adi on Instagram and learn more his work at www.igntd.com. You can also hear him speak, along with over 20 leading names in the wellness space, at IGNTD Glow—a 3-day holistic recovery event in Los Angeles, October 18-20 2019.

This episode was created in partnership with Grüvi—get 20% off all online orders with the code Ruby20 at www.getgruvi.com

Jenn is on a mission to democratize access to talk therapy, and in this wide-ranging and super-enlightening conversation she and Ruby get deep into the weeds of the inequalities and core, systemic wounds that underlie so many addictions and self-soothing behaviors—and which have often be passed down from generation to generation.

In this episode we also discuss:

-Alcohol vs. cannabis as a coping mechanism

-Feeling safe to be yourself in a world that fears the "other."

-The power and importance of peer-to-peer counseling.

-The cult of individualism vs. our collectivistic needs.

-How to recognize and use our privilege.

-How generational trauma gets passed down – along with coping mechanisms.

-The danger of framing healing as “work," with a specific goal or outcome attached.

-The pros and cons of the rise of Instagram therapists.

You can discover more about Jenn and her work with Decolonizing Therapy HERE and follow her on Instagram. Learn about anti-racism work with The People’s Institute for Survival and Beyond HERE.

This episode was created in partnership with Grüvi—get 20% off any online order with the code Ruby20 at www.getgruvi.com.

This interview is raw, and emotional, and real, and I came away from our encounter feeling like we had met properly for the first time, despite moving in the same circles for years. In this episode, we also discuss:

• Being bullied as a child for being gay—and the imprint it left on him.

• The drunk "persona" he hid behind to stop people getting close.

• His personal (and very public) rock bottom—and the destructive behaviors that led to it.

• The importance and impact of interventions from friends.

• The tools he has found to manage anxiety, panic attacks, and insomnia post-booze.

• Becoming an advocate for CBD and how to use it therapeutically.

You can learn more about Adam and his work and follow him on Instagram HERE.

This episode was created in partnership with Grüvi—and you can get 20% off any online order at www.getgruvi.com with the code Ruby20

Radha is also a lifelong community-builder, and her 2018 book Belong: Find Your People, Create Community & Live a More Connected Life, is a master-class in aligning your social connections with the highest vision for your life. In this episode we discuss:

-How to create sober social meet-ups, parties, and events.

-Radha's definition of "sober," meaning to life a life of clarity, passion, and purpose.

-The exact exercise Radha used to change up her social life when she was getting Sober Curious at age 30.

-Why partying sober is a natural way to get a D.O.S.E (!) of Dopamine, Oxytocin, Serotonin, and Endorphins.

-How labels like "introvert" and "extrovert" can be limiting—as we are all "ambiverts" in the right social setting.

-The true meaning of the words "community" and "belonging"—and why we need these more than ever!

Learn more about Radha and her work HERE, find a Daybreaker event in a city near you, and get more of Radha's wisdom in her book, Belong.

My partners for this episode are Grüvi (get 20% off with the code Ruby20 at Getgruvi.com) and Athletic Brewing Co.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What people mean when they say they don't "trust" non-drinkers

• Why drinking is so normalized in our culture

• "Burnout" as a sign that an underlying mental health issue needs to be addressed

• Why it is time to de-stigmatize depression

• Healing from trauma and thriving in recovery

• How to create healthy new habits that support our mental and emotional wellbeing

You can learn more about Rachael and her work at www.welfordwellbeing.com.

Season 2 of the Sober Curious podcast is supported by Grüvi, and you can get 20% off any onLine order at www.getgruvi.com with the code RUBY20.

Sah begins by sharing his own history with substances and how this was interwoven with his experiences as an immigrant to the US and then career as a magazine editor in NYC. As well as his subsequent awakening and journey of self-discovery studying with spiritual masters across the globe, in this interview we also discuss:

• The impact of alcohol on a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual level

• How Buddhist philosophy mirrors the Sober Curious approach

• Sah's experiences of dating sober on the LGBTQIA scene

• What it means to live in alignment with what he calls the "spiritual heart"

• Ways to manage anxiety and cultivate more positivity in your life.

You can learn more about Sah and his work HERE and follow him on Instagram @sahdsimone.

This episode was created in partnership with Athletic Brewing Co.

Now nearly 11 years clean from alcohol, cocaine, and heroin abuse, in this episode Biet shares the story of the "awakening" that led to her getting sober, as well as some signature rock 'n' roll teachings and insights from her new book, Don't Just Sit There! In this conversation, which contains STRONG language and a few trigger warnings (beware!) we also discuss:

-The lies we are telling ourselves when we're numbing with drugs & alcohol

-Why not drinking is a shocking and rebellious act

-Why tragedy and loss can be calls to a personal awakening

-Why it is impossible to shut down the "negative" parts of being human, and how to accept them

-Why doing cocaine off toilets with celebrities is NOT a sign that you have "made it"

Discover more about Biet Simkin and her work HERE, follow her on Instagram, and get a copy of her book HERE. You can also check out a video playback from our last Club SÖDA NYC event, titled Psychedelics & Sobriety, HERE.

This episode was created in partnership with DRY Sparkling.

As well as her opinion that "there is no such thing as an alcoholic" (and her super progressive thinking on this), Holly shares deep insights from her work at the leading edge of the sober revolution. In this episode, she and Ruby also discuss:

-Holly's views on the "The New Sobriety"—and why more people quitting booze is so much more than a lifestyle trend

-How the capitalist credo of seeking happiness outside of ourselves is what begets addiction

-Why AA was a "non-starter" for Holly, due to its patriarchal programming

-Her definition of "problem" drinking (clue: it's as soon as alcohol presents as a problem in your life)

-Holly's tips and advice on how to socialize, switch-off, and date as a non-drinker

Holly is also founder of media platform The Temper. You can learn more about her online sobriety school Tempest HERE and follow her on Instagram @holly.

*This episode was created in partnership with DRY Sparkling

After all, most of us drink as a way to connect with others socially—and so removing alcohol can often lead to periods of social isolation as we find new ways to relax and unwind, and new people to socialize with. In this episode, Ruby and Jen also discuss:

-Why talking about the future of booze means talking about the future of mental health

-The neurological reason alcohol makes us more stressed and less creative

-The root of the word "euphoria" as it relates to our wellbeing

-The role of sober curiosity in the gig economy

-Why connecting with each other sober creates true connection and community

Learn more about Kin and their offerings at Kineuphorics.com

Summer is the time of picnics, weddings, and vacations, and often of them all awash with alcohol. But being Sober Curious doesn't have to mean the end of your social life. Set against a backdrop of a sober visit to the Movement techno festival in Detroit, in this episode I discuss:

-Why parties, concerts, and nightclubs are often just excuses to get wasted

-The real reason we sometimes have an emotional hangover after a night out

-What I discovered when I started going to music festivals sober

-Bringing something to the party that's not a bottle (as well as your own AF drinks)

-Using music alone to "pre-game" and get you in the party mood!

This episode is also supported by Rock Grace, a new alcohol-free rosé wine alternative with added wellbeing benefits. Discover more and get high on your own supply at Rockgrace.com

She believes this taps into a wider issue about our cultural conditioning around "pleasure," and what it means to be a modern, emancipated woman. In this interview, Ruby and Africa also discuss:

-The appeal of the "party girl" persona as a way to get external validation

-Alcohol abuse as a form of self-sabotage

-Why AA didn't work for her, and the turning point in her getting sober

-The importance—and loneliness—of embracing your individuality

-Why the best relationships are based on honesty and authenticity

-New research about women who drink being perceived as being more sexually available

To learn more about Africa and her coaching work visit Discoverydive.net, join her mission to make shameless pleasure a priority at Thecherryrevolution.com, and follow her on Instagram @africabrooke

As an openly sober person, Yves is also a champion for sober-positivity, and in this super-raw conversation he shares the details of his journey with substances—as well as how his subsequent sobriety has been integral to his passion for giving a voice to those whose stories so often gone unseen, particularly trans women of color.

In this episode, Ruby and Yves also discuss:

-How addictions are often rooted in a lack of self-worth

-The formative experiences that shape our behavior as young adults

-How addicts are often dehumanized in the eyes of society

-How our most difficult experiences can help us to help others

-The role of self-love in living a sober life

-Being a sober person in the fashion + music industries

Follow Yves on Instagram @the_yvesdropper and check out his current collaboration with Kidd Bell—of which 10% of proceeds go to Hair On Purpose, an organization that works to empower back girls and foster self-love through hair, beauty, and health education.

A classic tale of sex, drugs, more sex, more drugs, and some rock 'n' roll, his story is interwoven with snapshots of a lonely, unstable childhood and adolescence, providing context for his desperate need for love and validation. The result is a no-holes-barred portrait of an epic rock bottom, which also illustrates in lurid detail the ways our past will catch up with our present, no matter how hard and fast we try to escape it.

As well as Moby's subsequent sobriety and spiritual awakening, in this episode we also discuss:

-Addiction as a response to the human condition

-Sobriety as a bi-product of the raising of consciousness

-Figuring out how to be human in a sustainable way

-The value of evidence-based thinking when it comes to getting sober

-Our collective addictions to meat and to money

-The balm of seeking divinity in the day-to-day

100% of the proceeds from Moby's twin memoirs, Porcelain and Then It Fell Apart, will be donated to animal rights organizations. For a full list of book-related events, readings, and signings, visit Moby.com

I also set out my BIG MISSION for spearheading this Sober Curious conversation, and inviting anybody and everybody, regardless of whether you have a drinking "problem" to reexamine the way we drink and think about drink: CHOICE.

Growing up in a society where we have what I call a "dominant drinking culture," whether or not we become a drinker often does not feel like a choice - and my goal is to make it as normal NOT to drink as it is TO drink, by removing the stigma that exists around conversations about sobriety and addiction.

For the full story, check out my new book, Sober Curious: The Blissful Sleep, Greater Focus, Limitless Presence, and Deep Connection, Awaiting Us All On The Other Side of Alcohol.